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[WanderingWind]

One of the worst freeways in the world?

That guy has clearly never left the US. Or is this like the World Series?

No, it's one of those fact thingies with like, data and stuff.

2015
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-worlds-most-congested-cities-by-the-numbers/

In 2013
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorzelany/2013/04/25/the-worlds-most-traffic-congested-cities/

 

[unholyrevenger72]

I can get anywhere in LA during rush hour just as fast by taking the Metro rails and my bicycle, yet people demand i have a car for a 9-5 job.

 

[Foffy]

I don't know if the article covered it, but is the problem the computational capability itself? Don't these cars have pretty dated cameras for scanning? Wouldn't something with higher visual quality help discern the road better?

I'd have to imagine a good portion of the problem may be on what they use to scan the road, because that can be bottlenecked and confuse the machine even further.

 

[Zaptruder]

I don't know if the article covered it, but is the problem the computational capability itself? Don't these cars have pretty dated cameras for scanning? Wouldn't something with higher visual quality help discern the road better?

I'd have to imagine a good portion of the problem may be on what they use to scan the road, because that can be bottlenecked and confuse the machine even further.

Judging by this thread, it's just hard when the contrast is that low in general.

Humans overcome the inability to see the lines by... following the cars around them and creating a mental expectation of the lanes based on what little they can see and what they expect from other drivers around them.

I imagine with the sensors on the Tesla, it can also rely on this sort of failover method for determining lanes.

But maybe that's not good enough when you're making these kinds of vehicles and expect much better than human error rates. Especially as Backslashbunny mentions above; when you're the car leading the pack.

 

[entremet]

Im not sure if Im jealous of the motorcycle driver or just hate him for being a jerk.

Why? That's awesome.

This is what happens when you let car companies dictate your transportation strategy.

 

[KHarvey16]

93 in and around Boston can be bad at night in the rain. Some sections have the reflectors embedded in the lines but most don't, and where they've become faded you're left guessing in a lot of cases. And the lanes get narrow once you get closer to the city and it can get pretty interesting.

 

[VanWinkle]

Imagine if you will using your brain to think about what actually happens with lane splitting. Every motorcycle that does it is saving an extra space on the freeway - it literally creates a new lane with no negative affects on car lanes, only positive.

The guy riding the cycle is now not in a car taking up a space or causing traffic, he is just removed from the congestion, reducing your wait time by one. He is helping YOU out by doing it...just because he gets even more benefit doesn't mean you should be against it.

I refuse to acknowledge your argument. I will forever remain the big unhappy kid waiting for his rectangular pizza product while you, Archibald, the mischievious young slender gentleman, cuts in front of me because the cafeteria lady Gretchen said you were allowed. This is, of course, not even to mention that Gretchen has had it out for me since the 6th grade, all because I told her that the cereal package I picked up and was just about to eat was three months expired. I could've got food poisoning!

Alas, we need not diddle nor daddle any longer, for the real issue - self-driving cars - is more pertinent.

 

[Kipp]

Wait, lane-splitting is illegal in other states?
I've always lived in CA and I'm totally used to it/totally okay with it. I always make sure I give them extra room when they come by.
In fact, I was driving with my window down and my arm out the window the other day and I moved over to give a motorcyclist extra room and he gave me a fist-bump as he rode by and it was the best thing ever.

 

[vwnut13]

I think Musk's point is that it's an awful road and that's a good thing, because it gives them a baseline of badness. If they can get the self driving tech working on light roads with faded paint, then it should work on pretty much any road.

If you think a dry highway with faded lines in Los Angeles is a worst case scenario, you are sorely mistaken.

 

[T0KY0ST0MP]

Lane splitting is fine. I always get the OK gesture when I'm driving fast lane in my car and give em enough space to pass comfortably.

Spoiler

I HOPE IT"S THE OKAY SIGN!

 

[JDeluis]

I see a school bus in the pic. I bet those kids get home just in time for bedtime.

This is gold!

 

[CitizenVectron]

And what about half of the US (and Canada) that has to deal with this for half of the year:

Self driving cars will work all right in sunny California with its nice smooth roads and bright lines that rarely fade...but in places where you have to use intuition to even tell where the lanes are? Fat chance.

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

And what about half of the US (and Canada) that has to deal with this for half of the year:

Self driving cars will work all right in sunny California with its nice smooth roads and bright lines that rarely fade...but in places where you have to use intuition to even tell where the lanes are? Fat chance.

This is absolutely true, but I doubt anyone is seriously intending for cars to be self driving in such conditions for quite some time. Perhaps the 405 is the "worst possible conditions" that we can reasonably expect the first generation of self driving cars to tackle?

 

[Fenderputty]

Living in so cal ... I'm fine with that

 

[Calamari41]

93 in and around Boston can be bad at night in the rain. Some sections have the reflectors embedded in the lines but most don't, and where they've become faded you're left guessing in a lot of cases. And the lanes get narrow once you get closer to the city and it can get pretty interesting.

93 of what? That's a lot, whatever it is.

 

[Booshka]

Not surprised, the 405 gets crazy. I saw a mattress fly out of the back of someone's truck and land in the opposite carpool lane. I was in gridlock traffic on my side, so I hopped out, jumped over the barrier and dragged the mattress out of the lane.

No robot driver is ever gonna make that move.

 

[TAJ]

While we have our traffic snarls, at least it's nowhere near as terrible as SoCal!

San Diego isn't SoCal now?

 

[n0razi]

I'm not familiar with the 405 (since I live on the east coast), but stuff like this is one of the reasons why I'm not that bullish on self driving cars. So many situations where you just can't see where you're supposed to actually be driving, or where there are multiple sets of lines, etc.

As long as there is manual override im OK with it.... i trust tesla's AI more than 90% of human drivers on the road, esp the ones texting and eating while driving

 

[vwnut13]

And what about half of the US (and Canada) that has to deal with this for half of the year:

Self driving cars will work all right in sunny California with its nice smooth roads and bright lines that rarely fade...but in places where you have to use intuition to even tell where the lanes are? Fat chance.

And don't forget about dirt roads...

...and streets without lane markings.

(On top of that, can't wait for my self driving car to queue behind that parked car!)

 

[XiaNaphryz]

San Diego isn't SoCal now?

Maybe CalTrans thinks they're part of Baja.

 

[SapientWolf]

Not surprised, the 405 gets crazy. I saw a mattress fly out of the back of someone's truck and land in the opposite carpool lane. I was in gridlock traffic on my side, so I hopped out, jumped over the barrier and dragged the mattress out of the lane.

No robot driver is ever gonna make that move.

I vote for mattress burning flamethrower attachments on the robot cars. I don't see how that could possibly backfire.

 

[AtomicShroom]

And what about half of the US (and Canada) that has to deal with this for half of the year:

Self driving cars will work all right in sunny California with its nice smooth roads and bright lines that rarely fade...but in places where you have to use intuition to even tell where the lanes are? Fat chance.

So much this. This is why I keep wondering how the hell we're ever going to get self-driving cars up here in Canada. It's almost unthinkable, unless they equip every single road with some kind of lane emitters that can be detected through snow and ice. And even then. What happens when plows line up the snow in a row for pickup? What does an automated car do when it comes across one? Depending on its height I'll just ram through it. Will the self-driving car just stop and wait 2 hours for the snow to be picked up?

I just can't imagine it being possible. There are so many incalculable obstacles that require our judgement to navigate...

 

[Foffy]

And don't forget about dirt roads...






...and streets without lane markings.




(On top of that, can't wait for my self driving car to queue behind that parked car!)

Those examples can probably be dealt with in time. Consider how GPS can work in those areas, too, being able to map the area out adequately. Those are incredibly miniscule problems to handle compared to the one that this thread is about, which involved one of the most densely driven locations in the country.

We already have driverless trucks that can drive like hive minds, with only one leader. Your examples are nitpicky.

 

[FStop7]

The 405 is a special kind of trash.

I didn't realize how bad it was until I stopped commuting, started walking, etc. Then when I drove on the 405 again... it was shocking. I was so accustomed to its terribleness that I'd come to just accept it.

 

[RiverBed]

I wonder how other company AI is doing to address such problems, or is it the Achilles heel for all?

 

[Booshka]

The 405 is a special kind of trash.

I didn't realize how bad it was until I stopped commuting, started walking, etc. Then when I drove on the 405 again... it was shocking. I was so accustomed to its terribleness that I'd come to just accept it.

Nobody walks in LA

 

[EloquentM]

California traffic still makes me sad back to the future flying cars never happened. I'd imagine them being real while sitting traffic as a kid

={

 

[FStop7]

Nobody walks in LA

I walk everywhere. I drive once every week or two, at most. It's great. I don't even know what gas prices are any more (except when they jumped by $1 this week :| )

 

[Booshka]

I walk everywhere. I drive once every week or two, at most. It's great. I don't even know what gas prices are any more (except when they jumped by $1 this week :| )

why walk when you can bike.

Also, is your head pointed so far to the sky while you walk that you can't see giant signs with gas prices on them?

 

[Himynameischris]

Most humans can't seem to handle the 405 either, I fucken hate that freeway.

 

[Monocle]

It's simple: have the cars paint their own stripes in front of them!

 

[Livingskeletons]

While we have our traffic snarls, at least it's nowhere near as terrible as SoCal!

That because no one can afford to live in the Bay Area.

 

[ZeroX03]

Seems easy to cause an accident. And I wish my car could do it.

It's safer than just sitting there.

http://www.cycleworld.com/2015/06/02/ama-study-finds-lane-splitting-increases-rider-saftey/

 

[Poyunch]

Lane splitting freaks me out so much. It just seems super dangerous. What about that one time the car changes lanes and didn't notice the cyclist? fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

 

[Rizific]

Fucking HATE passing through La County when I go between San Diego and Fresno. The only redeeming part is being able to listen to kday.

 

[Sobriquet]

Lane splitting freaks me out so much. It just seems super dangerous. What about that one time the car changes lanes and didn't notice the cyclist? fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

If drivers paid attention then it wouldn't be dangerous at all. But then, neither would driving.

 

[Aceofspades]

Musk can always borrow BMW or Merc tech, it would be cheaper and more reliable in the long run.

 

[Karsticles]

If they can't even manage that, how the hell are they planning to get them to function in winter conditions?

No kidding. Or dirt roads.

 

[GRIP]

uh huh

 

[Walpurgis]

And what about half of the US (and Canada) that has to deal with this for half of the year:

Self driving cars will work all right in sunny California with its nice smooth roads and bright lines that rarely fade...but in places where you have to use intuition to even tell where the lanes are? Fat chance.

At least you can see lane markings in that image. In Manitoba, the entire ground gets covered by a packed layer of snow during the fall/winter. That means that we drive without lane markings for half the year. No lane markings + super slippery = a very stressful time. As relieving as it would be, I don't see self-driving cars working in the winters here for the next 50 years.

“This is not easy for a computer to figure out,” Musk told reporters, while announcing the latest upgrades to the company’s Model S electric sedan. He referred to I-405 — which sweeps from Los Angeles’ South Bay through the Westside and up into the San Fernando Valley — as “one of the world’s worst freeways.”

“If we can make it work there, we can make it work anywhere,” he said.

It sounds like Tesla wasn't ever considering self-driving cars in Canada as a goal if their goal was to self-drive on a road as simple as that.

 

[ILoveBish]

Nothing is as bad as the 5. 2nd worst is the 91/15 area. Corona is forever screwed.

 

[DirtyManos]

What the, I don't get all this talk about not being able to see lanes on the 405?

In whatever weather I've always been able to see the lanes. Maybe it's because I'm tall in my seat that I almost feel hunched over?

Dramatization:

Plus the 405 is so simple, it's not the complex hellscape of trying to drive through the freeway system in downtown/hollywood.

Also Musk, give us the goddamn Model 3 soon please, I need it as my next car.

 

[seanoff]

And don't forget about dirt roads...






...and streets without lane markings.




(On top of that, can't wait for my self driving car to queue behind that parked car!)

No kidding. Or dirt roads.

http://youtu.be/hIJeqD3Ax40

Maybe this will answer some of the questions. Esp about unmarked roads, parked cars etc

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

Im not sure if Im jealous of the motorcycle driver or just hate him for being a jerk.

Lane sharing is safe and legal.

Most drivers do move over for bikes.

 

[S-Wind]

I don't live in SoCal, but virtually everyone on my mom's side lives there - largest population of Vietnamese outside of Vietnam, of course they're all there! Consequently, I am down there relatively often, at least once a year.

For all the driving I've done on the 405, I guess I should consider myself lucky that the vast majority of my experiences with it have been good.

I have had a taste of how bad it can get so I'm glad I don't have to deal with it on a regular basis.

 

[jb1234]

Lane sharing is safe and legal.

Most drivers do move over for bikes.

I knew you were gonna find a way into this thread.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

Parts of the 405 are not lighted and the reflectors are old. Self driving cars depend on that data.

It's not hard to figure out that a computer might have a problem while human drivers don't.

I knew you were gonna find a way into this thread.

You know me too well.

 

[Turin Turambar]

Well, there is a reason google cars has been in development for so many years. It's a hard problem to solve.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Man, I can't imagine dealing with traffic like that.

 

[neorej]

To be fair, most drivers I encounter have equal or more problems driving on those types of roads.