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The $2.7 Trillion Medical Bill

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Piecake

Member
Colonoscopies Explain Why U.S. Leads the World in Health Expenditures

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/02/h...eads-the-world-in-health-expenditures.html?hp

MERRICK, N.Y. — Deirdre Yapalater’s recent colonoscopy at a surgical center near her home here on Long Island went smoothly: she was whisked from pre-op to an operating room where a gastroenterologist, assisted by an anesthesiologist and a nurse, performed the routine cancer screening procedure in less than an hour. The test, which found nothing worrisome, racked up what is likely her most expensive medical bill of the year: $6,385.

That is fairly typical: in Keene, N.H., Matt Meyer’s colonoscopy was billed at $7,563.56. Maggie Christ of Chappaqua, N.Y., received $9,142.84 in bills for the procedure. In Durham, N.C., the charges for Curtiss Devereux came to $19,438, which included a polyp removal. While their insurers

Americans pay, on average, about four times as much for a hip replacement as patients in Switzerland or France and more than three times as much for a Caesarean section as those in New Zealand or Britain. The average price for Nasonex, a common nasal spray for allergies, is $108 in the United States compared with $21 in Spain. The costs of hospital stays here are about triple those in other developed countries, even though they last no longer, according to a recent report by the Commonwealth Fund, a foundation that studies health policy.

Largely an office procedure when widespread screening was first recommended, colonoscopies have moved into surgery centers — which were created as a step down from costly hospital care but are now often a lucrative step up from doctors’ examining rooms — where they are billed like a quasi operation. They are often prescribed and performed more frequently than medical guidelines recommend.

The high price paid for colonoscopies mostly results not from top-notch patient care, according to interviews with health care experts and economists, but from business plans seeking to maximize revenue; haggling between hospitals and insurers that have no relation to the actual costs of performing the procedure; and lobbying, marketing and turf battles among specialists that increase patient fees.

While several cheaper and less invasive tests to screen for colon cancer are recommended as equally effective by the federal government’s expert panel on preventive care — and are commonly used in other countries — colonoscopy has become the go-to procedure in the United States. “We’ve defaulted to by far the most expensive option, without much if any data to support it,” said Dr. H. Gilbert Welch, a professor of medicine at the Dartmouth Institute for Health Policy and Clinical Practice.

Like the Yapalaters, many other Americans have habits or traits that arguably could put the nation at the low end of the medical cost spectrum. Patients in the United States make fewer doctors’ visits and have fewer hospital stays than citizens of many other developed countries, according to the Commonwealth Fund report. People in Japan get more CT scans. People in Germany, Switzerland and Britain have more frequent hip replacements. The American population is younger and has fewer smokers than those in most other developed countries. Pushing costs in the other direction, though, is that the United States has relatively high rates of obesity and limited access to routine care for the poor.

I'm shocked, absolutely shocked that our health industry advocates the most expensive and lucrative colon cancer screening tests when there are much cheaper and less invasive measures that produce the same results. (sarcasm)
 

Cmagus

Member
That is ridiculous. I had one done a few years ago and it costs me nothing in Canada. Almost disgusting the way your health care system is.
 

Burt

Member
Hospitals don't really have a choice. The legal system, insurance, and industries like big pharma dictate the environment they operate in. And let's not even get into the fact that most doctors come out of a decade of extra training with debt that will last then until they retire anymore. It's just up to them to survive. I've seen plenty of hospitals close or have their quality of care ruined by the world they operate in. General care doctors and almost all lower level hospital staff are some of the most underappreciated and overworked people in the country. Hospitals are, through unfortunate necessity in modern society, run by accountants, and stuff like this is the result.
 
That is ridiculous. I had one done a few years ago and it costs me nothing in Canada. Almost disgusting the way your health care system is.

That's the thing, it's not a health care system, it's just a freakin' wild west market disguised in resembling something like health care. It's just absolutely disgusting and terrifying.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
even if it doesnt cost you anything, it costs someone else something. you're just not seeing it

But it almost certainly didn't cost as much, because costs are ridiculously inflated. The costs people are currently paying do not actually represent a combination of material costs and scarcity of labor valuation, they are basically arbitrary numbers. There are several really good investigations into this.
 
I don't recall being any less free than an American...
In fact, with less fear of violent gun assaults I dare say I feel more free

Pfffttt!

Freedom is knowing that at any given time it can just take one uninsured sickness or injury to set back your life financially forever, now that's true freedom!
 

Tabris

Member
even if it doesnt cost you anything, it costs someone else something. you're just not seeing it

You know what though? The majority of Canadians and Canadian businesses pay less in taxes than what Americans and American businesses pay in taxes + medical coverage.

But even if that was not the case, I would be happy for his treatment to cost me.

"A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members." ~ Mahatma Gandhi
 

Cmagus

Member
even if it doesnt cost you anything, it costs someone else something. you're just not seeing it

That's why we pay taxes I pay mine so I can go to the doctor. Part of my taxes go to help others as well even those who are poor and make very little can go to the doctor something that seems impossible to imagine in the US.
 

daycru

Member
It's why I don't trust doctors/hospitals. They're a capitalistic entity just like any other and will lie, manipulate, and steal just the same. Why would they cure me and turn off the money faucet?
 

entremet

Member
You know what though? The majority of Canadians and Canadian businesses pay less in taxes than what Americans and American businesses pay in taxes + medical coverage.

But even if that was not the case, I would be happy for his treatment to cost me.

"A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

Hey man, I would love single payer, but those pesky Republican voters.
 

Piecake

Member
It's why I don't trust doctors/hospitals. They're a capitalistic entity just like any other and will lie, manipulate, and steal just the same. Why would they cure me and turn off the money faucet?

Nineteen months after Matt Meyer, who owns a saddle-fitting company near Keene, N.H., had his first colonoscopy, he received a certified letter from his gastroenterologist. It began, “Our records show that you are due for a repeat colonoscopy,” and it advised him to schedule an appointment or “allow us to note your reason for not scheduling.” Although his prior test had found a polyp, medical guidelines do not recommend such frequent screening.

“I have great doctors, but the economics is daunting,” Mr. Meyer said in an interview. “A computer-generated letter telling me to come in for a procedure that costs more than $5,000? It was the weirdest thing.”

pfft, medical guidelines. Who needs them
 

Gallbaro

Banned
Hospitals don't really have a choice. The legal system, insurance, and industries like big pharma dictate the environment they operate in. And let's not even get into the fact that most doctors come out of a decade of extra training with debt that will last then until they retire anymore. It's just up to them to survive. I've seen plenty of hospitals close or have their quality of care ruined by the world they operate in. General care doctors and almost all lower level hospital staff are some of the most underappreciated and overworked people in the country. Hospitals are, through unfortunate necessity in modern society, run by accountants, and stuff like this is the result.

So the problem is the democrats?
 

Polari

Member
C-section rates in New Zealand are around 25%, whereas the WHO recommends that they should account for around 15% of total births. So yeah, while I believe in a public health system it has its downsides. The taxpayer foots the bill after all.
 

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
My 26 year old sister was diagnosed with crohn's disease recently and had a colonoscopy and will need another one soon. She'll probably need them regularly the rest of her life. Right now she's kind of in a limbo between schools with no job and doesn't have any insurance. I've heard her say "fuck america up the ass" more than a few times recently and I don't blame her.
 

dark_chris

Gold Member
Do you guys want free health care?
Sounds like evil communist talk to me!

Docs and the upper peeps need boats and mansions.
Are you saying you want to deny them of pleasures?!
 

Burt

Member
So the problem is the democrats?
Uh... sarcasm?

A reductive and overly simplistic (but understandable) way to look at it all is in terms of economics. Healthcare is a money problem in America, and there are multiple parties involved. There's the government, the citizens, the healthcare providers, and the healthcare businesses. Money's gotta come from somewhere. The choices are: the government stops helping the citizens that need it (particularly the elderly), people start paying more (in a country where a huge portion of the population already can't afford adequate healthcare), hospitals start cutting costs internally and raising their prices (by lowering the quality of care and charging $9000 for colonoscopies), or insurance/pharma/malpractice law/other healthcare businesses take a pay cut (when they're some of the largest, wealthiest, and most "overcharging" businesses in the planet, as demonstrated in this article). Which seems like the most reasonable solution? Now, which political party do you think would be the one that would keep that solution from coming into effect?
 

whitehawk

Banned
My 26 year old sister was diagnosed with crohn's disease recently and had a colonoscopy and will need another one soon. She'll probably need them regularly the rest of her life. Right now she's kind of in a limbo between schools with no job and doesn't have any insurance. I've heard her say "fuck america up the ass" more than a few times recently and I don't blame her.
My Dad got cancer in 2004. He's alive and cancer free now, but I don't know what we would have done if we didn't live in Canada. Cancer treatment costs a fortune.
 

Cmagus

Member
These discussions always remind me of this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_PX5L_v_7I&t=0m50s

Just so sad how people can be like this. I understand that it is the tea party but my god I couldn't imagine this.

My Dad got cancer in 2004. He's alive and cancer free now, but I don't know what we would have done if we didn't live in Canada. Cancer treatment costs a fortune.

My neighbor had the same thing she is cancer free as well because she was able to get the treatment she needed.
 

Thorakai

Member
I recently got a 'bleeding time' test done. The test involves putting a small cut on my arm and having the nurse wait until it clots. This throwaway test was charged as $280 to my insurer. The only thing that was used up was an alcohol wipe, the box used to make the cut, a paper used to dab the blood off every 30 seconds, and the bandage. $280 for that. I know it is not at all extreme compared to what other people pay for health care, but this particular incident just hit home how over-inflated health care costs are in this country. Even worse is the nurse managed to fuck up something so simple which led me down the path for more unnecessary procedures.
 
Do you guys want free health care?
Sounds like evil communist talk to me!

Docs and the upper peeps need boats and mansions.
Are you saying you want to deny them of pleasures?!

How many doctors do you know that own boats and mansions?

The problem isn't physician compensation.
 

SoulPlaya

more money than God
Wait, did you take out the part that said, "While their insurers negotiated down the price, the final tab for each test was more than $3,500."


Either way, it's clearly fucked up, but from my experience, the system can't be saved. It needs to torn down completely and rebuilt. It's so complex that everyone can now point as something else, and blame that for the cause of the prices. It all needs to change.
 

SoulPlaya

more money than God
Do you guys want free health care?
Sounds like evil communist talk to me!

Docs and the upper peeps need boats and mansions.
Are you saying you want to deny them of pleasures?!
Physician compensation makes up a very small percentage of medical costs in this country (and physician reimbursement is actually going down). BTW, I have doctors in my family, and none of them own a boat or live in a mansion.

The patient didn't pay anything out of pocket.

It's in the third paragraph of the article.
I wish OP had posted the actual, full article, lol. Most people won't bother to actually click the link. Either way, though, system's broken on all sides.
 

Cynar

Member
That is ridiculous. I had one done a few years ago and it costs me nothing in Canada. Almost disgusting the way your health care system is.
Pre-paid, not free. Everyone eventually uses it so everyone pays. We also focus on prevention in Canada rather than reaction like the American's. Makes sense imo. I'm glad we had some sane governments which set it up, let's hope Harper gets out soon, he is purposely messing up our economy by overspending and creating a crisis just so he can cut our social safety net.
 
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