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The 360 & AA (i.e. 'free AA' or whatever it's called)

...so why render is 640p? is it some kind of Bioshock 'fake widescreen' design choice or a performance fix?
 
deepbrown said:
If it allows for a smoother experience - PERHAPS it's alright - but I'm sure you can tell the difference. I think it'd only work on 360 because of it's magic chip.
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Oh, it's definitely because of the 360's internal scaling ability. If the PS3 had a scaler I'm sure they'd be happy to scale up games like CoD3 a bit so that their version would match the 360 framerate.

They can now scale somewhat horizontally, though, so we can get PS3 games that are 960x1080p instead of real 1920x1080p. Ditto for 1080i, etc.
 
RSTEIN said:
OK, getting back to the question:

WHY?

Why is Halo 3 640p and not 720? Is the 360 hitting some sort of performance ceiling?
Click to expand...

And even at 640p Halo 3 still has framerate issues, though from all the reviews i've read it's on the minor and infrequent side.
 
RSTEIN said:
Why is Halo 3 640p and not 720? Is the 360 hitting some sort of performance ceiling?
Click to expand...

Obvious answer: they needed to do it to ensure a stable framerate.

The funny this is that no one would have noticed otherwise.
 
squicken said:
So if the 10 MB isn't being used for "free AA", what is it being used for?

edit: lolol 640p
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AA doesn't just require space, it requires processing power. If developers need that processing power for a different feature, then they'll skip out on AA. Since AA is happening constantly while you're playing (every frame that is being rendered), it is being processed all the time, so I can see why developers would give it up in exchange for, say, a better framerate (just an example).
 
I've been playing PC games with AA for a couple of years now, and over time I've been finding it harder and harder to go back to consoles because of the lack of AA. It's not so much that I'm a graphics whore (I mean I love the hell out of my DS), it's just that I find jaggies/shimmering so distracting now that it's hard for me to enjoy any game with them.
 
Aleman said:
Obvious answer: they needed to do it to ensure a stable framerate.

The funny this is that no one would have noticed otherwise.
Click to expand...

I certainly notice. The jaggies are pretty bad, IMO. I'm not a graphics whore so it doesn't really bother me at all. I'm more curious about the 'free AA' statements, etc., but I see this thread has taken on a life of its own! :D
 
RSTEIN said:
OK, getting back to the question:

WHY?

Why is Halo 3 640p and not 720? Is the 360 hitting some sort of performance ceiling?
Click to expand...

Yep, this is as good as it get folks. Pack it up, its over.
 
beermonkey@tehbias said:
Oh, it's definitely because of the 360's internal scaling ability. If the PS3 had a scaler I'm sure they'd be happy to scale up games like CoD3 a bit so that their version would match the 360 framerate.

They can now scale somewhat horizontally, though, so we can get PS3 games that are 960x1080p instead of real 1920x1080p. Ditto for 1080i, etc.
Click to expand...

Like GTHD
 
Ghost said:
...so why render is 640p?
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Well, it's fewer pixels to render for starters, so from a performance point of view that might be helpful depending on where their bottleneck was.

640p might also avoid tiling, though that would depend.

As for the original OP, nothing is free. It's unfortunate such a distinguishing/big design decision on the GPU hasn't really delivered in most cases.
 
Mojovonio said:
Yep, this is as good as it get folks. Pack it up, its over.
Click to expand...

Actually he asked a perfectly valid question. Why does it run at 640P native?
Is there another reason besides framerate stability?
 
Mojovonio said:
Yep, this is as good as it get folks. Pack it up, its over.
Click to expand...

No, I don't mean it like that. Obviously we're at the early stages of this generation - games will only look better and better.

It's just that I feel we've been duped a bit, like there's some sort of conspiracy going on.

Also, Turn 10 and Bungie aren't third party devs. They are first party. They have huge resources and manpower. It's not like, oh yeah, that game was made by X developer, of course it looks like shite. If Bungie was forced to go 640p to make the game run, it's a troubling sign, isn't it?
 
Kaako said:
Actually he asked a perfectly valid question. Why does it run at 640P native?
Is there another reason besides framerate stability?
Click to expand...

Where has it been confirmed that it runs at 640p???

All I saw was a post from Beyond3D and nothing else.
 
Kaako said:
Actually he asked a perfectly valid question. Why does it run at 640P native?
Is there another reason besides framerate stability?
Click to expand...
It's common practice ever since the dawn of videogames. You need less processing power in the CPU and GPU if you decrease the resolution you render the image at.
 
RSTEIN said:
Also, Turn 10 and Bungie aren't third party devs. They are first party. They have huge resources and manpower. It's not like, oh yeah, that game was made by X developer, of course it looks like shite. If Bungie was forced to go 640p to make the game run, it's a troubling sign, isn't it?
Click to expand...

Games are amazingly complex pieces of software. Even though they're first party I wouldn't make generalized conclusions based on this.
 
There is a picture from Valhalla that was a frame buffer pic and they scrutinized it and found it to be 720p.
 
Mojovonio said:
Where has it been confirmed that it runs at 640p???

All I saw was a post from Beyond3D and nothing else.
Click to expand...

That's the thing, can someone from Bungie step forth and confirm whether their game is running @ 720P native or not...If confirmed @ 640P native, why? Any other reason besides framerate?

Also, the poster on B3D has tested many games and I give him the benefit of doubt until proven wrong.
 
gofreak said:
It's unfortunate such a distinguishing/big design decision on the GPU hasn't really delivered in most cases.
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Thank you, this is the point I was trying to make with this thread. I didn't know about any of this Halo nonsense (still not 100% proven).
 
Most jaggieless games? Gears 2x plus very clever stuff!, Resistance 4x (we think), F1 4x, HS 4x

I did it! Oh noeeesssssss:lol
 
Son of Godzilla said:
This is the best fucking thread I've ever read and it can only get better.
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:lol Agreed!

But I guess some people have to keep themselves entertained while they have no good games to play.
 
_leech_ said:
What does GoW2 render at?
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IIRC it's one of those (common) 512x512 rendered PS2 games. So you do actually get 480 lines out once the PS2 video encoder scales it, but the horizontal resolution is cut by 20% from a full 4:3 640x480.

PS2 games can also render at other resolutions like 320x512, 320x240, 640x240, etc. Though they don't actually tell us on the box what the internal resolution is. ;)
 
If the game looks good, which it does, then why does it matter if it's being rendered at 640 vertical pixels? They probably found that they could lower the rendering resolution and get better performance with a minimal loss of detail. No big deal.
 
atbigelow said:
If the game looks good, which it does, then why does it matter if it's being rendered at 640 vertical pixels? They probably found that they could lower the rendering resolution and get better performance with a minimal loss of detail. No big deal.
Click to expand...

Well we were talking about AA!
 
Next Gen Review Scale 1.24: Changelog

Code: 
PS3 Game: less than 1080p = -0.4 in Graphics; -0.2 in Presentation
PS3 Game: No AA = -0.3 in Graphics; -.02 in Replayability

Code: 
Xbox360 Game: Less than 1080p = +/- 0.0 in Graphics
Xbox360 Game: Less than 720p = + 0.3 in Graphics
Xbox360 Game: No AA = + 0.02 in Graphics
 
Agent Icebeezy said:
There is a picture from Valhalla that was a frame buffer pic and they scrutinized it and found it to be 720p.
Click to expand...

798_0002.jpg
 
methane47 said:
Next Gen Review Scale 1.24: Changelog

Code: 
PS3 Game: less than 1080p = -0.4 in Graphics; -0.2 in Presentation
PS3 Game: No AA = -0.3 in Graphics; -.02 in Replayability

Code: 
Xbox360 Game: Less than 1080p = +/- 0.0 in Graphics
Xbox360 Game: Less than 720p = + 0.3 in Graphics
Xbox360 Game: No AA = + 0.02 in Graphics
Click to expand...

wow, you're fucking bitter.

:lol
 
RSTEIN said:
I certainly notice. The jaggies are pretty bad, IMO. I'm not a graphics whore so it doesn't really bother me at all. I'm more curious about the 'free AA' statements, etc., but I see this thread has taken on a life of its own! :D
Click to expand...

You are driving this thread into the conclusions you want, no ulterior motive my rear.

I can't believe I am feeding such a whack thread
 
_leech_ said:
Nothing wrong with wanting both.
Click to expand...


But chances are you won't (get both), so you just get your feelings hurt in the end. If I had to decide though, frame rate > any graphical feature.
 
That pic was from a year ago, I'm sure they tried to achieve a steady framerate with 720p before deciding to go 640p.
 
karasu said:
Is that Halo 3?
Click to expand...

Yeah, the beta

captscience said:
Couldn't the 640p frame dump simply have been upscaled to 720p before posting? The watermarks certainly prove that the image was altered after being "shot."
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A frame dump can be upscaled, but the steps per pixel is the telling number for resolution
 
Mojovonio said:
Guys, you're going to have to learn to throw your rocks a little higher. Your target is on a huge fucking pillar.
Click to expand...

Screw the rocks, it's pumpkin season ;)

cannon4.jpg


It's on now. :lol
 
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