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The Atlantic: My Familys Slave
- Thread starter LordOfLore
- Start date
Deportation to a country where she would see her family and maybe actually be able to visit her parents' grave, vs a roof and food in the belly and (hand-me-down) clothes at the mere cost of decades of physical and moral abuse and no personal freedom.
Zoe
Member
By the time the author was an adult, the country she left was no longer there. At that point she wasn't too different from children who are brought into the country illegally and end up with nowhere to go.
Do you actually believe that she could have been able to survive on her own after being deported?
Things aren't that simple.
What did he mean by this?
Member
Title shouldve been "My Slave". I dont feel the author did everything he could have, and I dont like the title releasing from culpability
I had to fight the tears several times while reading the article. At one point, the tears won.
I skimmed the discussion in this thread. I will not even participate in this stupid-ass conversation, some posters should seriously question their mental sanity.
All I came for is to say this: Sold at a young age, abused and treated like a nobody, with very few close friends when it, ultimately, all went dark, she still made a splash in the history of this world. Elevated to a worldwide, huge audience by the author, her life, as sad as it may be, left a significant mark. Whatever else he may or may not have done - this he has achieved.
I skimmed the discussion in this thread. I will not even participate in this stupid-ass conversation, some posters should seriously question their mental sanity.
All I came for is to say this: Sold at a young age, abused and treated like a nobody, with very few close friends when it, ultimately, all went dark, she still made a splash in the history of this world. Elevated to a worldwide, huge audience by the author, her life, as sad as it may be, left a significant mark. Whatever else he may or may not have done - this he has achieved.
Fuck yeah I would've. It doesn't matter if she would've thrived or not. She would have agency. The freedom to control some core aspects of her existence. Something deprived to her virtually her entire life, to the point that she couldn't even fathom a life of not being dependent on the author and his family.
Examples of people who lack basic reading comprehension. The reason why I won't join the convo.
Sunster
Member
I feel like I know Lola after reading all that. Really good writing. I'd like to think I would have done more for her growing up, but being in that family, raised by that woman, idk..
also, Filipinos call grandmothers lolas so the name, lola was probably more of a title. idk if someone has said that yet but it's worth knowing for context.
also, Filipinos call grandmothers lolas so the name, lola was probably more of a title. idk if someone has said that yet but it's worth knowing for context.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Are you seriously fucking asking me if I would (a) leave someone stripped of their freedom, agency and opportunity to live and enjoy their own life on their own terms for whatever number of days remain as the master of her fate and captain of her own soul...or (b) let her stay a slave or a slave with benefits?
I'mma need you to go sit down somewhere.
lol. Alternately, because you have nothing of value to add that doesn't end in her living out her days as a quasi-slave. Ok.
You just did. I read just fine thanks and I've expanded on my point more thoroughly in other posts, better than sitting on a high horse passing judgement.
Mister Wolf
Member
I guess to you she was better off being a slave then. Many of us feel being deported was the best option there she would have freedom.
Captin Quacker
Member
lol i'm better than others in this thread by not join the conversation
now lemme compile a list of posters that I think are wrong
also the doesn't excuse the fact that he let her be his mothers slave for decades after he'd moved out the house or that it took him five fuckin years to go spread her ashes claiming nobody would remember her
Bill O'Reilly used this exact argument for slaves that built the WH. If anything this thread just shows me how easy it was to be complicit in slavery and what the abolitionists had to go through to secure the power and mind-share necessary to decimate the system.
Mister Wolf
Member
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brown_(abolitionist)
"Historians agree that the Harpers Ferry raid escalated tensions that, a year later, led to the South's secession and Civil War."
They basically had to start killing people. Don't hold your breath waiting for a Hollywood movie about John Brown.
Things I am not comfortable condescendingly judging others over from my ivory tower of automatically presumed socioeconomic and moral superiority: getting a coffee every morning while struggling with credit card debt, with no additional context about their life circumstances
Things I am comfortable judging others over: modern-day slavery
Things I am comfortable judging others over: modern-day slavery
For fuck's sake, think about it for a second. She has no basic education, very little knowledge of the outside world. Now you're saying you would throw her back to a country she hasn't seen since childhood with no money and completely alone, and somehow that's what's best for her own personal well-being? Because freedom?
For the record I do agree that the author should have done more (and earlier), but you gotta have some perspective there. Reality isn't black or white, this is a complicated issue and it's easy to judge others when you haven't lived in their shoes.
See with this post, in my opinion you belittle her ability to do anything for herself, and I don't blame you because this is the way the author wrote it. The point is many former slave in the Transatlantic slave thrived (as much as you could in the era) in freedom, others did not. But they were free, they could make decisions on their own. Lola was never given this opportunity, to thrive or to fail. Many are just assuming she would've just been forever a dependent shell of a person. We have no way of knowing this, no matter how good a writer the author is and what picture he paints. She never had opportunity in her life and that is what brought tears to my eyes in her whole ordeal.
I'm not claiming the author didn't love her or that she didn't love him and his family. I'm just saying he didn't do enough. That much is clear.
Reptars Revenge
Member
Should have had her sent back with restitutions for all the unpaid work.
Mister Wolf
Member
No one ever gets the 40 acres and a mule.
And I 100% agree. I just don't think that this hypothetical deportation scenario would have been a solution.
You wouldnt have done anything. Just like you arent doing anything now about the 'slaves' doing the same thing in philippines today.
Thats what we're both doing.
That title would miss the important context of the family. While I'm not sure if silence on your family's abhorrent practice is as bad as the practice itself, it seems pretty close. At least, that's how I'm currently reading it.
That obituary is some pretty damning new evidence on what I'm thinking about all this, though. I wonder what they will write about it in hindsight of the Atlantic piece.
Captin Quacker
Member
Are you legitimately saying that because there are slaves in the Philippines, that Dreams-Visions would have acted similar to the writer?
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
You didn't read the whole article did you
People who hadn't seen her since she was 12 sobbed for 10 full minutes when Tizon brought her ashes home
He benefited from her enslavement as much as the rest of his family did, regardless of his feelings about it. It wasn't just "his family's" slave.
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...-didnt-tell-the-story-of-her-life-in-slavery/
On why she wrote the obit
On why she wrote the obit
shadowstew
Member
I'm sure if the author was alive today, he wouldn't ask for anyone's sympathy or pity.
It's definitely okay to think 100% that the author is a scumbag.
The sole reason why my anger at this story isn't 100% directed at the author, is his grandfather Lieutenant Tom.
This guy literally ruined not only Lola's life, but multiple generations of his family because he "gifted" his daughter a slave.
And not to trivialize slave owning because owning slaves is always 100% evil.
But, it's still fucked up that the author was born in a slaveowner family in modern times, and didn't comprehend his family friend was his slave until later. Then, it's even more fucked up that his mom couldn't find a way in her power to do the right thing in the first place.
Sure, anyone of us might be able to do the right thing if they were put in that situation.
But, you would still have to hold that 'L' that you were unwillingly an accomplice to slavery from the minute you were born in that family. Also, you have strong enough to selflessly sacrifice your current life to live with the consequences:
It's definitely okay to think 100% that the author is a scumbag.
The sole reason why my anger at this story isn't 100% directed at the author, is his grandfather Lieutenant Tom.
This guy literally ruined not only Lola's life, but multiple generations of his family because he "gifted" his daughter a slave.
And not to trivialize slave owning because owning slaves is always 100% evil.
But, it's still fucked up that the author was born in a slaveowner family in modern times, and didn't comprehend his family friend was his slave until later. Then, it's even more fucked up that his mom couldn't find a way in her power to do the right thing in the first place.
Sure, anyone of us might be able to do the right thing if they were put in that situation.
But, you would still have to hold that 'L' that you were unwillingly an accomplice to slavery from the minute you were born in that family. Also, you have strong enough to selflessly sacrifice your current life to live with the consequences:
- Your slaveowner family disowning you (probably okay).
- While Lola is finally free, you might never hear from her again (probably okay).
- Dealing with punishment (if you did it too late).
- Start a brand new life by yourself (probably the hardest part).
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Who is doing that?
And he was "fascinated" by the fact that people cried for this woman. "a deep, mournful, animal howl, like I once heard coming from Lola."
Gross
I don't think anybody is doing that explicitly, although that is the subtext of several arguments ITT.
Here's the thing, it's incredibly self defeating and presumptuous to assume that she was incapable of being re-educated (and I don't like that term but I can't think of a less problematic alternative) to either function in American or Filipino society, particularly knowing that she wasn't _that_ old by the time the author or his siblings reached adulthood.
It would have taken a lot of work, yes, and they might've had to sacrifice a lot of time, effort, and money to do so. But considering Eudocia practically raised all of them (and most of them) from childbirth, they _owed_ her more. Nobody is suggesting or implying that it would be easy, straightforward, or easy. But there are things that could have been done that wasn't done, and it honestly was up to the author's family to figure that out.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
I don't think anyone is disagreeing with any of that, to be honest? Feels like a lot of people are talking past each others.
Mister Wolf
Member
Fucking disgusting.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Indeed. Glad more get it.
Right?
Right?!
We're not talking about covering up your father's tax fraud from his small business or your mother's thievery from the local PTA fundraisers.
This is -- literally -- slavery. Not "you treat Pedro so poorly when he comes over for the landscaping" slavery. The "I own a human being" kind of slavery.
You know. Slavery.
She doesn't really have much to apologize for. Obit jobs aren't exactly where you're looking to muckrake and fact-check every story.
Tizon's wife deserves a cozy spot next to her husband someplace warm, though, because it's clear she was complicit in covering up the slavery aspect too and clearly didn't mind having an unpaid worker take care of her kids in the bargain. After all, childcare is just so expensive, right? Far easier to just let Lola do what she was abused into doing, because that doesn't rock the boat.
Zoe
Member
They told her not to do anything in the house but she did anyway. Should they have forced her to live alone?
Dreams-Visions
Member
More. They should have done more. If you're suggesting them simply throwing up their hands and saying, "aww shucks, okay keep on working" after a couple of likely weak appeals qualifies as the best they could have done, I'm going to say they an go right to hell. Part of the point in this story is that nobody in the family did enough, ever.
Welp
Zoe
Member
As soon as she came to live with them, they gave her shelter, money, and access to whatever she wanted. She was not an unpaid worker giving the writer's wife free daycare.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I wish I hadn't clicked this. Piece of shit.
Yea, that's not how it works. You don't simply wake up one morning free after 50 years and go do what you want to do. She needed actual rehabilitation. She needed mental healthcare in the worst possible way. Please don't be dense today, Zoe. I'm not in the mood.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Hmm.
Zoe
Member
How far down the line does this go? Are the writer's children complicit too?
Say what you want about the writer, his parents, and his grandparents. We have no idea what the situation was with his wife. Whether his wife even knew what the situation was.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
How much of this is actually true, and how much of it is the author's own attempt to ease his conscience, I wonder...
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