• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

The biggest problem with GoW:R / GT7 / H:FW being cross-gen is that we will have to wait another 3+ years to see strongest Sony ip's in full PS5 power

TheGejsza

Member
Sep 8, 2020
311
608
315
Title - it is ridiculous that from onward into the nearest future we have only one Sony IP AAA game to be released with only PS5 in mind - Ratchet and Clank.

This is more sad when you think that to see truly next gen Gow/horizon (biggest Sony ip's) we will have to wait 4-5 years not to mention that another GT game might not come to this gen (polyphony is really taking their time). I wouldn't mind for GT7 to be whole-gen game with updates across the generation but with PS4 dragging it down it does not seems like a good idea. Imagine 5 years into the future Polyphony will have to Dlc on ps4 too.

Not to mention really disingenuous Sony marketing showing GT7 and other titles as PS5 exclusives and not mentioning PS4 versions while making fun of Xbox at the same time. Sony is becoming the Apple of gaming with its arrogance...
 

shubik

Member
Dec 23, 2019
499
1,094
345
I think it is absolutely bonkers to speculate how God of war or Horizon might look like if they were PS5 exclusive. Nobody knows and it´s all just pure speculation without any evidence. Those games will still melt your fucking retina. Look what Naughty dog was able to pull off with the base PS4. Or Death stranding, or God of War, etc.

If I get the fidelity shown with Horizon in 60FPS, I can happily say that this is THE DEFINITION of Next-gen for me! This was not possible with the last-gen.

And besides that: We all knew that it takes a couple of years till the devs are able to harness the real power of a new-gen. This will also be the case this time. So just fucking chill and enjoy those technical masterpieces SONY is about to drop on all of us.
 
Last edited:

TheGejsza

Member
Sep 8, 2020
311
608
315
I don't think we have to wait that long tho.
Why? I think we will see both GoW R sequel and HFW sequel near the end of the generation. They will drop current engines and use something like UE5 and it will take some time for the studio to master new iteration of engine. I think 3 years is the minimum wait and personally I think it will be around 5 years.
 

TheGejsza

Member
Sep 8, 2020
311
608
315
I think it is absolutely bonkers to speculate how God of war or Horizon would look like if they were PS5 exclusive. Nobody knows and it´s all just pure speculation without any evidence. Those games will still melt your fucking retina. Look what Naughty dog was able to pull off with the base PS4. Or Death stranding, or God of War, etc.

If I get the fidelity shown with Horizon in 60FPS, I can happily say that this is THE DEFINITION of Next-gen for me! This was not possible with the last-gen.

And besides that: We all knew that it takes a couple of years till the devs are able to harness the real power of a new-gen. This will also be the case this time. So just fucking chill and enjoy those technical masterpieces SONY is about to drop on all of us.
There is no speculation. Beside graphic quality the level design will be majorly compromised because of Ps4 hardware. Of those games only GT7 can be scaled back without much of the problem i think.

But GoWR will be same corridor-like lite RPG with semi open world. And HFW will be just more of a HZD. They can't go any crazier about it because of Ps4. You can't have bigger World Serpent on PS5 than on PS4. You can't make bigger main HUB area on PS5 than on PS4. If you have max 10 enemies on screen on PS4 you won't have 25 enemies on PS5 because of balancing issues. There will be tons of those kind of micro-changes that will impact the PS5 version. I am curious if we will still have elevators and squeezing through in PS5 version...

THEY just can't push the shit to the limits of PS5 in terms of game design (not graphic quality) if they have to develop for PS4 too. That's what makes me sad. No innowations in terms of gameplay and game design. Just higher image quality.
 

longdi

Banned
Jun 7, 2004
8,933
6,708
1,890
Hell yeah.
Imagine the jaguar cpu and hdd for another 2 years :messenger_persevering:
Imo an average gamer pc already have specs surpassing it.

Something like iphone12 cpu runs ring around jaguar.

pretty evident in HFW, despite the ultra high detailed aloy and vegetation. The game plays right out of ps4.
 

Thedtrain

Member
Jul 30, 2018
741
2,299
475
Hell yeah.
Imagine the jaguar cpu and hdd for another 2 years :messenger_persevering:
Imo an average gamer pc already have specs surpassing it.

Something like iphone12 cpu runs ring around jaguar.

pretty evident in HFW, despite the ultra high detailed aloy and vegetation. The game plays right out of ps4.
frustratingly accurate. HZD was my game of last gen and I was pretty excited to see it step up this ven. But you’re right it’s just a pretty PS4Pro+ game I guess.
 

shubik

Member
Dec 23, 2019
499
1,094
345
There is no speculation. Beside graphic quality the level design will be majorly compromised because of Ps4 hardware. Of those games only GT7 can be scaled back without much of the problem i think.

But GoWR will be same corridor-like lite RPG with semi open world. And HFW will be just more of a HZD. They can't go any crazier about it because of Ps4. You can't have bigger World Serpent on PS5 than on PS4. You can't make bigger main HUB area on PS5 than on PS4. If you have max 10 enemies on screen on PS4 you won't have 25 enemies on PS5 because of balancing issues. There will be tons of those kind of micro-changes that will impact the PS5 version. I am curious if we will still have elevators and squeezing through in PS5 version...

THEY just can't push the shit to the limits of PS5 in terms of game design (not graphic quality) if they have to develop for PS4 too. That's what makes me sad. No innowations in terms of gameplay and game design. Just higher image quality.

I get what our saying but you are still working with assumptions. We don´t know if Barlog would go for bigger worlds or a different structure in terms of world-building and level design. It could be a possibility sure... but they could also go for a different route and have more density, crazier boss fights, better action sequences, etc.

I don´t know what you expected but I was amazed by Miles Morales on m 4k Screen. I was also amazed by what I saw from Horizon. This felt next-gen to me. Everything felt better and improved over the last title. And we also got the confirmation that the game will run in 60FPS. A game with this fidelity and performance is next-gen! There is currently nothing like it on the market.

And besides that: We are still getting PS5 exclusives. Ratched is around the corner and is clearly flexing the PS5 muscles. SONY will continue to sprinkle in PS5 exklusives. But there is nothing wrong with some cross gen titles over the next 2 years if we still get that fidelity.
 

FingerBang

Member
Jan 17, 2020
173
313
260
Title - it is ridiculous that from onward into the nearest future we have only one Sony IP AAA game to be released with only PS5 in mind - Ratchet and Clank.

This is more sad when you think that to see truly next gen Gow/horizon (biggest Sony ip's) we will have to wait 4-5 years not to mention that another GT game might not come to this gen (polyphony is really taking their time). I wouldn't mind for GT7 to be whole-gen game with updates across the generation but with PS4 dragging it down it does not seems like a good idea. Imagine 5 years into the future Polyphony will have to Dlc on ps4 too.

Not to mention really disingenuous Sony marketing showing GT7 and other titles as PS5 exclusives and not mentioning PS4 versions while making fun of Xbox at the same time. Sony is becoming the Apple of gaming with its arrogance...
So you're saying that you'd rather wait 3 more years for a game designed around the PS5 hardware than a game next year that runs on PS4 too? For a game to come out this or next year, it must have been in production for at least 3 years. You are asking to have fewer games just because the idea of cross-gen is now suddenly wrong?

Can you prove that GOW and GT7 are going to be held back by the last gen versions? Can you prove that the lead designers are being forced to make that decision? If Sony was forcing their developers, why do we have a PS5 only R&C coming out? Why did we have Returnal? Because that is not the case, simply as that. For fuck's sake, Demon's Souls could easily run on a PS4 and yet you people are happy that hundreds of millions of players who can't afford/find a PS5 can't play the game. Why the fuck are you like this?

You can't seriously talk about arrogant Sony now, after the PS3 era. They're not. They're constantly under attack by a loud minority who keep twisting their executive's words, just because now there's a narrative that insists that Jim Ryan is a piece of shit. If you bought a PS5 to play the new GOW, thinking you were forced to buy the console and would have been fine to play it on PS4, I'm sorry for you. But then why the fuck did you buy the console 1 year early? And if you did because you could afford a PS5, why in hell would you play the worse version?

Edit: Also, you don't know what Naughty Dog is doing, don't know what Sony Bend and Sucker Punch are doing. Those games won't be cross-gen.
 
Last edited:

eyesabitdull

Member
May 10, 2020
1,715
3,106
410
Quarter of what the PS5 can do is already enough to amaze me so far.

I don't mind the fact that by doing crossgen they get to test the waters of the capabilities of the PS5 and learning the tools and tricks required to blow us out of the water when the real current gen exclusives coming out.

That is literally the best outcome for all of us.

Some of you need to grow up and get a life instead of praying to see the future of gaming in all its glory in the coming months.

Calm tf down. When did games ever gotten shittier looking by the end of the generation?

I mean, I thought of God of War was the height of the PS4, then TLOU2 came out and wiped that opinion clean.

I don't get the rush to see what consoles can do by the end of their cycle, that was the best part of a gaming generation.
 
Last edited:

BeardGawd

Member
Dec 16, 2019
794
1,431
485

shubik

Member
Dec 23, 2019
499
1,094
345
I and many others don't view anything shown for Ratchet and Clank as nextgen gameplay. If that's all we can expect we might as well hang up this generation now.

Isn't Forza next-gen only? Damn near all Xbox Studios are working on nextgen only games that aren’t rushed for launch.


I don´t even know what to say to this. You and many others are wrong I guess.
 
Last edited:
Mar 5, 2020
730
1,121
395
www.otakugamers.uk
The PS5 is about to get another next gen exclusive very soon in Ratchet & Clank. I don't get the complaints myself. GOW & Horizon likely started out as PS4 games anyway so I doubt they would have wanted to redo most of their engine, whilst creating the game at the same time, to make it a next gen exclusive. Sony obviously don't wanna lose that $$$ either that a PS4 release would bring.

Chin up.

I and many others don't view anything shown for Ratchet and Clank as nextgen gameplay.

What is next gen gameplay exactly? That's almost as bad a take as DF's Infamous Second Son shenanigans
 

odhiex

Member
Dec 15, 2008
1,664
407
1,130
Jakarta, Indonesia
twitter.com
Hell yeah.
Imagine the jaguar cpu and hdd for another 2 years :messenger_persevering:
Imo an average gamer pc already have specs surpassing it.

Something like iphone12 cpu runs ring around jaguar.

pretty evident in HFW, despite the ultra high detailed aloy and vegetation. The game plays right out of ps4.

Can we just wait until the game comes out? Or at least a proper comparison footages between the two versions?

Or... we can just assume...

"At the very least" they are essentially look the same, but PS5 version has higher picture quality/resolution, better framerate, better loading time, maybe ray tracing. Better version LOL
 

skit_data

Member
Nov 3, 2020
2,249
5,455
425
What's even more crazy is that MS is primed to be the one to release the first truly next-gen only games. Maybe it was smart of MS to skip out the first year?
 

Tschumi

Gold Member
Jul 4, 2020
4,820
5,334
750
It's because a global chip shortage that effects everyone is limiting the pool of people who own Ps5s. So none of these companies will make the profits they deserve if it's exclusive to Ps5.

It's a hard choice, but the right one. Gives them a chance to MAKE those next gen exclusive follow ups.
 

Kokoloko85

Member
Sep 26, 2019
3,927
4,969
420
But we already have 3 exclusives and its been 6 months, not 3+ years.

The best looking games and tech will mostly come later but sometimes you get them early too. ( Uncharted 4, The Order etc )

And Im pretty dissapointed over the Cross gen news myself especially Horizon and Gow, but being able to play them on PS5 and at 60fps is sweet enough for now. GT7 I expect them to just tone down the graphics, FPS, effects etc.

But GOW and Horizon could of benefitted with being built up for PS5, More animations, AI, bigger more interactive worlds etc. Shame
 
Last edited:

longdi

Banned
Jun 7, 2004
8,933
6,708
1,890
Can we just wait until the game comes out? Or at least a proper comparison footages between the two versions?

Or... we can just assume...

"At the very least" they are essentially look the same, but PS5 version has higher picture quality/resolution, better framerate, better loading time, maybe ray tracing. Better version LOL

ps5 version will look and load better by far.

but the ps4 baggage is very clear. imo even the animations and charcater weight/physics, looks last gen, you can see the floatiness when aloy climbs/steps over obstacles.
 

emivita

Member
May 30, 2021
170
560
285
This is why it's a smarter choice to wait for a PS5 Pro model and play true next-gen games there, unless you're afraid of missing out the latest trending games and you're fine buying a first model PS5 for $500 in 2021/22 (good luck with that), and spending another $500 for an inevitable Pro model in 2023 or having the hassle of selling the old console or trading it in. And you can bet there will be a Pro model by the end of 2023, current consoles are barely capable of doing native 4K @60 fps, let alone decent ray-tracing at @60 fps.

I won't play TLOU3 on an old ass PS5 for sure, and I will also play improved versions of older games. Meanwhile, I will clear up the backlog on my PS4 Pro. Which is a pretty silent one, by the way.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: luca_29_bg

Dibils2k

Member
Mar 22, 2015
1,698
2,541
665
There is no speculation. Beside graphic quality the level design will be majorly compromised because of Ps4 hardware. Of those games only GT7 can be scaled back without much of the problem i think.

But GoWR will be same corridor-like lite RPG with semi open world. And HFW will be just more of a HZD. They can't go any crazier about it because of Ps4. You can't have bigger World Serpent on PS5 than on PS4. You can't make bigger main HUB area on PS5 than on PS4. If you have max 10 enemies on screen on PS4 you won't have 25 enemies on PS5 because of balancing issues. There will be tons of those kind of micro-changes that will impact the PS5 version. I am curious if we will still have elevators and squeezing through in PS5 version...

THEY just can't push the shit to the limits of PS5 in terms of game design (not graphic quality) if they have to develop for PS4 too. That's what makes me sad. No innowations in terms of gameplay and game design. Just higher image quality.
this. so much

i hate people boil down the "cross gen is bad" to "graphics will look bad"
 

Fredrik

Member
Jun 27, 2005
10,385
4,692
1,685
none of these companies will make the profits they deserve if it's exclusive to Ps5.

It's a hard choice, but the right one. Gives them a chance to MAKE those next gen exclusive follow ups.
It takes 3-5 years to make a AAA game these days, or even longer, those games would arrive late gen and after a PRO launch. How would early adopters feel about that?
 
Apr 4, 2017
550
1,265
450
There is no speculation. Beside graphic quality the level design will be majorly compromised because of Ps4 hardware. Of those games only GT7 can be scaled back without much of the problem i think.

But GoWR will be same corridor-like lite RPG with semi open world. And HFW will be just more of a HZD. They can't go any crazier about it because of Ps4. You can't have bigger World Serpent on PS5 than on PS4. You can't make bigger main HUB area on PS5 than on PS4. If you have max 10 enemies on screen on PS4 you won't have 25 enemies on PS5 because of balancing issues. There will be tons of those kind of micro-changes that will impact the PS5 version. I am curious if we will still have elevators and squeezing through in PS5 version...

THEY just can't push the shit to the limits of PS5 in terms of game design (not graphic quality) if they have to develop for PS4 too. That's what makes me sad. No innowations in terms of gameplay and game design. Just higher image quality.
EXACTLY. Game Design is where next-gen's at.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SafeOrAlone

Aion002

Member
Nov 21, 2019
2,756
5,479
590
SP - BR
Yeah... It's the same crap that happens on pc you know? So many games that can be played on onboard graphic cards and can't reach their full potential.

If only there was a thing called scalability and devs could add settings to turn on and off stuff according to the hardware capabilities... If only...


imagine hasan minhaj GIF by Patriot Act



:messenger_winking_tongue:
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: laynelane and Riky

FunkMiller

Member
Aug 14, 2014
8,057
25,162
990
It's because a global chip shortage that effects everyone is limiting the pool of people who own Ps5s. So none of these companies will make the profits they deserve if it's exclusive to Ps5.

It's a hard choice, but the right one. Gives them a chance to MAKE those next gen exclusive follow ups.

The pandemic and global chip shortage have absolutely nothing to do with why God Of War is on the Ps4. The game would have been in production long before the pandemic or shortage started. It was always meant to be a Playstation 4 game, which is fine - Sony just weren't honest about it. There's the problem.
 

ZywyPL

Member
Nov 27, 2018
5,785
10,237
725
I've been telling this the whole time that next-gen starts at 2023 at earliest. Unfortunately this leaves 3-4 years of games build from the ground up for PS5/XSX.

BUT - when PS6/XS2 arrive and we will once again go through another cross-gen period, those games will be already made with powerful CPUs, SSDs, RT, Mesh Shading etc. in mind.

As I said a year ago, the transition from exotic, custom architectures to a common x86 was damn painful with Jaguar and HDD, and that pain will drag for another 2 years, but IMO that's a sacrifice worth to take. Just think about it - 2 years from now all games will be build with a minimum of 14 threads, as oppose to an equivalen of 2, it's gonna be crazy.
 

SLB1904

Banned
Oct 24, 2017
3,392
6,978
675
I've been telling this the whole time that next-gen starts at 2023 at earliest. Unfortunately this leaves 3-4 years of games build from the ground up for PS5/XSX.

BUT - when PS6/XS2 arrive and we will once again go through another cross-gen period, those games will be already made with powerful CPUs, SSDs, RT, Mesh Shading etc. in mind.

As I said a year ago, the transition from exotic, custom architectures to a common x86 was damn painful with Jaguar and HDD, and that pain will drag for another 2 years, but IMO that's a sacrifice worth to take. Just think about it - 2 years from now all games will be build with a minimum of 14 threads, as oppose to an equivalen of 2, it's gonna be crazy.
Why everyone ignores. Ratchet. Demons and returnal
 
Last edited:

FunkMiller

Member
Aug 14, 2014
8,057
25,162
990
The theory that cross-gen games "Hold back" next gen versions is only true for crap/lazy devs.

It's crazy that people continue to believe this, even though it's insane. Is it brand loyalty driving it? Are people in denial because they still want to believe they'll be getting cutting edge games?

The simple fact of the matter is that a game designed to run on eight year old hardware is not going to fully exploit the capabilities of six month old hardware. It's ridiculous to claim anything otherwise. It's an understandable business practise for companies looking to maximise their profits above all other considerations, but having to design games to run on last gen consoles will affect what those games are like on this generation's consoles. Good grief.

God of War Ragnarok is going to be a Ps4 game, with enhanced textures, better FPS and higher framerate on Ps5. That's it.
 
Last edited:

cormack12

Gold Member
Mar 21, 2013
10,492
27,417
1,550
You have to balance that against improvements made over time to engines and sdks. What a developer puts out day 1 as their PS5 title will look dated and noticeably lacklustre to what they put out last. Look at Syndicate to Valhalla......

Yeah it kinda sucks we dont have a true next gen tentpole IP but early adopters want the latest and greatest.
 

Guilty_AI

Member
Apr 12, 2020
4,515
8,938
720
Imagine believing they will actually improve game design because of the new hardware

"but but the SSD! the corridors!"
Don't act like open world sandboxes haven't existed for 2 decades now.
The reason they don't improve game design is far more commercial than technological. Gotta follow those algorithms that guarantee maximum revenue.
 

skit_data

Member
Nov 3, 2020
2,249
5,455
425
The pandemic and global chip shortage have absolutely nothing to do with why God Of War is on the Ps4. The game would have been in production long before the pandemic or shortage started. It was always meant to be a Playstation 4 game, which is fine - Sony just weren't honest about it. There's the problem.
I could see GT7 be a PS5 exclusive that recieves some downport treatment going on right now (if the reports are to be believed) but God of War probably was a PS4 game from the start.

It’s possible GT7 started as a PS4 project, shifted to a PS5 only project and then shifted back to a crossgen title as well because they already had some of the framework done in terms of game design. I could see that be the case.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FunkMiller

Birdo

Banned
Jun 12, 2019
8,612
30,810
730
Mushroom Kingdom
It's crazy that people continue to believe this, even though it's insane. Is it brand loyalty driving it?

The simple fact of the matter is that a game designed to run on eight year old hardware is not going to fully exploit the capabilities of six month old hardware. It's ridiculous to claim anything otherwise. It's an understandable business practise for companies looking to maximise their profits above all other considerations, but having to design games to run on last gen consoles will affect what those games are like on this generation's consoles. Good grief.

How is last gen holding back next gen?.....All next gen seems to offer is better loading times, fancy reflections, and higher resolutions.

We've had giant open-world games with no load screens for the last few gens. People are now suddenly acting like it's not possible.
 

NahaNago

Member
Aug 29, 2014
4,583
1,752
600
And in three yrs time there will prob be a ps5 pro out by then
Maybe I should wait. I'm in no rush to buy the ps5 since I don't want to pay scalp prices and the original reason I wanted a ps5 was for a more quiet machine and now because of Ratchet and Clank.
 

SLB1904

Banned
Oct 24, 2017
3,392
6,978
675
I could see GT7 be a PS5 exclusive that recieves some downport treatment going on right now (if the reports are to be believed) but God of War probably was a PS4 game from the start.

It’s possible GT7 started as a PS4 project, shifted to a PS5 only project and then shifted back to a crossgen title as well because they already had some of the framework done in terms of game design. I could see that be the case.
Every game that start development before the end of last year started as ps4 game or at least on ps5 paper specs.
It sucks that the next God of war and others are cross gen but it would be literally impossible to not be. Unless they release a new ip before their next big game
 
  • Like
Reactions: skit_data

Dibils2k

Member
Mar 22, 2015
1,698
2,541
665
Every game that start development before the end of last year started as ps4 game or at least on ps5 paper specs.
It sucks that the next God of war and others are cross gen but it would be literally impossible to not be. Unless they release a new ip before their next big game
so ratchet was 1 year dev cycle? lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: Audiophile

SLB1904

Banned
Oct 24, 2017
3,392
6,978
675
How is last gen holding back next gen?.....All next gen seems to offer is better loading times, fancy reflections, and higher resolutions.

We've had giant open-world games with no load screens for the last few gens. People are now suddenly acting like it's not possible.
The engine itself is made to run on a slow hardware. Watch NXGamer NXGamer analysis of hfw. There are some lod problems inherited from last gen