Badpsychometry
Member
They most certainly are
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The Evil Within 2 |OT| "Something not quite right"
- Thread starter SlasherJPC
- Start date
They most certainly are
Only halfway through, but it appears so. That being said, a New Game Plus option unlocks at the end, so if you feel so inclined you can find them on a second playthrough while retaining all of your upgrades, etc.
I agree to some extent, and i do think that some setpieces are far more crazier and memorable than a lot of EW2, but i don't think the overall experience is better or more memorable.
I'm having far more fun and i'm far more invested in Union than anything that was thrown at me in EW1. I will remember some setpieces of the first one more fondly, but i have no doubt that EW2 is a much better product on all accounts (at least up to chapter 13, it still can fuck it up)
The Xtortionist
Member
Had a nice long chat last night with NeoGAF's very own Net Wrecker to parse out thoughts on the game. I think the game is really good overall, but goddamn it isn't what I wanted. I'm a huge fan of the "Mikami rollercoaster shooter", so to speak, and the first Evil Within accomplished that to a decent degree. The framework was all there, but the execution was significantly botched with tons of jank and poor performance on console. Instead of polishing it up for an iterative sequel, Evil Within 2 forgoes the propulsive and scripted formula of the original for more methodical, emergent gameplay. That isn't a bad thing, and the result is a sequel that's generally more consistent than the original in quality. The gameplay is also polished up significantly, though a bit of wonkiness can be found if you look for it. It also has the best headshots in any game ever - topping the first game.
A few pages back the city section of TEW1 came up, and I brought up the gondola encounter as being some "Mikami-ass Mikami". Last night I tried to drill down what a "Mikami" encounter really means to me and why I love them so much, so here's what I got. I believe many of the best encounters in both RE4 and TEW1 are recognized as such because they would make a reasonable player say "oh, you GOTTA be kidding me!". The encounters tend to accomplish this by one of two ways: 1. Immediately placing the player in a compromised or otherwise disadvantaged position by way of a unique twist or gimmick; good examples would be the confined space of the RE4 cage match or gondola in TEW1, and the poison gas threat of the Keeper encounter in TEW1. 2. Unexpectedly escalating the threat mid-fight; examples would be RE4's Dr. Salvador shattering the player's sense of comfort in the village's two-story cabin, the one-two punch of the rain of harpoons and subsequent Sadist appearance in TEW1's chapter 6, or going back for Joseph's glasses. Also, defending Kidman in the water trap where first it's a wave of regular enemies, then dynamite guys flooding in, then finally having to make a mad dash to the control panel to frantically input the right code.
The Evil Within 2 doesn't really go for this stuff. There are brief flashes of it in sections like chapter
, but generally encounters are clearly telegraphed, mostly emergent, and don't significantly escalate once initiated. The combat survives because of how damn fun it is, but there's little actual encounter design that impressed me.
TEW2 also leans harder into horror sequences when compared to the first game. The obligatory opening walking simulator section is longer than before, and nearly-entire chapters such as
are devoted to this stuff. It was neat on a first playthrough, but the hampered pace makes it a bit rough on replays. The game also leans too hard into a story that I really didn't care about, with even more forced walks and some repetitive dialogue.
The more-open sections are when TEW2 is at its strongest imo. These levels are well-designed, very dense, and filled with rewarding interactions. Stealth killing a group of enemies with clever tactics is endlessly satisfying. Still, the linear sections lack the urgency and setpieces of the original game, and The Marrow sticks out as a pretty boring environment with not a whole lot going on; it has a few moments, but they're mostly fleeting. Boss fights aren't as numerous or memorable as the original for me, with many enemies presented as bosses feeling like glorified mini-bosses instead (Guardian, Harbinger). Final boss was pretty great, though.
A major nitpick I have with the game is that it's just overanimated. It takes too long to perform simple actions like drinking coffee, rummaging through trash cans, and scavenging from dead bodies. Sitting in the upgrade chair also takes a while, since the nurse has to settle in before any options can be selected. A lot of this stuff could have been cut down without harming the experience.
This post might seem really negative on TEW2, but I honestly like it a lot. I think I'd give the edge to TEW1 since its scripted, rollercoaster design is more to my tastes. Both games have flaws - TEW1 often devolves into a janky mess, though the sequel is less memorable and impressive to me overall. I'm glad the games exist because there isn't a ton out right now with spooky atmosphere and frantic, backfoot-oriented survival combat, and I really want a TEW3 to happen.
A few pages back the city section of TEW1 came up, and I brought up the gondola encounter as being some "Mikami-ass Mikami". Last night I tried to drill down what a "Mikami" encounter really means to me and why I love them so much, so here's what I got. I believe many of the best encounters in both RE4 and TEW1 are recognized as such because they would make a reasonable player say "oh, you GOTTA be kidding me!". The encounters tend to accomplish this by one of two ways: 1. Immediately placing the player in a compromised or otherwise disadvantaged position by way of a unique twist or gimmick; good examples would be the confined space of the RE4 cage match or gondola in TEW1, and the poison gas threat of the Keeper encounter in TEW1. 2. Unexpectedly escalating the threat mid-fight; examples would be RE4's Dr. Salvador shattering the player's sense of comfort in the village's two-story cabin, the one-two punch of the rain of harpoons and subsequent Sadist appearance in TEW1's chapter 6, or going back for Joseph's glasses. Also, defending Kidman in the water trap where first it's a wave of regular enemies, then dynamite guys flooding in, then finally having to make a mad dash to the control panel to frantically input the right code.
The Evil Within 2 doesn't really go for this stuff. There are brief flashes of it in sections like chapter
13's escort
TEW2 also leans harder into horror sequences when compared to the first game. The obligatory opening walking simulator section is longer than before, and nearly-entire chapters such as
5
Yeah, I get that Seb's family loves each other. Pls stop saying it.
The more-open sections are when TEW2 is at its strongest imo. These levels are well-designed, very dense, and filled with rewarding interactions. Stealth killing a group of enemies with clever tactics is endlessly satisfying. Still, the linear sections lack the urgency and setpieces of the original game, and The Marrow sticks out as a pretty boring environment with not a whole lot going on; it has a few moments, but they're mostly fleeting. Boss fights aren't as numerous or memorable as the original for me, with many enemies presented as bosses feeling like glorified mini-bosses instead (Guardian, Harbinger). Final boss was pretty great, though.
A major nitpick I have with the game is that it's just overanimated. It takes too long to perform simple actions like drinking coffee, rummaging through trash cans, and scavenging from dead bodies. Sitting in the upgrade chair also takes a while, since the nurse has to settle in before any options can be selected. A lot of this stuff could have been cut down without harming the experience.
This post might seem really negative on TEW2, but I honestly like it a lot. I think I'd give the edge to TEW1 since its scripted, rollercoaster design is more to my tastes. Both games have flaws - TEW1 often devolves into a janky mess, though the sequel is less memorable and impressive to me overall. I'm glad the games exist because there isn't a ton out right now with spooky atmosphere and frantic, backfoot-oriented survival combat, and I really want a TEW3 to happen.
Only halfway through, but I already have a long list of moments in TEW2 I'll remember just as fondly and vividly as I remember the first game (and I loved the first game). Apparently there's even more amazing stuff in the game's second half. This game is a gift that keeps on giving. 
I feel fortunate that both games align so closely with my tastes. This series has been amazing and TEW2 is the wonderful sort of sequel that enhances the whole series by bringing new flavors to the mix. Even retroactively improves the original's story by better developing Seb as a human being.
I feel fortunate that both games align so closely with my tastes. This series has been amazing and TEW2 is the wonderful sort of sequel that enhances the whole series by bringing new flavors to the mix. Even retroactively improves the original's story by better developing Seb as a human being.
Marty-esque
Member
So the controls feel "heavy" right? It's not just me?
PS4 btw
PS4 btw
TEW1 had a decent enough conceit- the environments are a (seemingly) random, exaggerrated mish-mash made from the memories of the people connected to STEM. There were definitely lows and highs, depending on what you were looking for in a survival horror game. And even with all the mechanical jank, it has some of the most enjoyable combat in single-player TPS.
The Xtortionist
Member
Pretty heavy, yeah. Sprinting has a startup, and changing directions has some weight to it.
plasmawave
Banned
What is Mikami working on? Or he's done directing games for good?
DirtyLarry
Member
Anyone else have the bug that when you load your game up
It seems to be happening on every save file of mine now, it only lasts for about 3 to 5 seconds. But it is fucking creepy as I am always in the safehouse when it happens and it should not be happening in there.
you hear the creepy children singing voices coming out of your PS controller that only happen when that ghost appears?
Nice writeup. I share some of your nitpicks, although I really like the game as a whole (so far — just reached Ch. 9).
I do think that if your first blind playthrough was on Nightmare, you might've had more of those "oh you gotta be kidding me" moments you mentioned from TEW1 and RE4. I have them routinely at this point since I pretty much only have three shotgun shells or a couple handgun bullets at any given time (which is why me finding these ammo pouches feels like some sort of cruel joke, lol).
Marty-esque
Member
Cool ok. It gets a little annoying when I'm searching for items indoors.
Also why is the default camera sensitivity at 8? It's like that for the first game too.
The Xtortionist
Member
No doubt that resources would be scarcer, but the encounters would play out similarly. Many encounters in RE4 and TEW1 are carefully scripted to make the player feel that way, regardless of inventory. The design is just a huge shift from mostly scripted encounters to those that are more emergent.
I think the best "you gotta be kidding me" moment from TEW1 is having to carefully shoot the ceiling switches in the last Laura fight. Especially when the game first came out and the black bars were mandatory, it was like a mental egg-timer going off as you try to shoot something while Laura approaches offscreen. Absolutely terrifying.
The Xtortionist
Member
Exactly, yeah. Stuff like that, the Sadist jumpscaring the player after killing the harpoon gunners in chapter 6, Ruvik in chapter 9, like all of chapter 10, and of course the nonsensical RPG Sadist closing out the huge eyeball arena fight in chapter 15. TEW1 doesn't lean on sudden escalation quite as much as RE4, but it was still there to a considerable degree. I just really love that stuff, and with TEW1 being as janky as it is I honestly expected them to polish that formula. Again, I like TEW2 an awful lot, but it's a huge shift away from a great framework that's now seemingly abandoned.
can I begin a NG+ on harder difficilties?? or do I have to unlock them first?
One thing TEW2 does that I appreciate is something not discussed very often when talking about horror games: comfort.
Areas that feel safe and cozy are important for contrast in a horror game. TEW1 was devoid of them — even its safe room equivalent (the hospital ward) felt bleak and unnerving with its strange occurrences, etc. And then the levels themselves were soul-crushing in their darkness and depravity. It was a very "cold" game. I loved it, but it rarely gave you any semblance of safety or comfort, and so the tone became numbing after a while.
TEW2, by contrast, presents an idyllic American town — Union — with cozy homes you can explore and nicely furnished business interiors. After sneaking past a horrifying
in Ch. 7 and reaching the hotel, I just relaxed in the lobby while the abomination continued to patrol the streets outside; I enjoyed looking at the crackling fireplace and the tacky furniture and the varnished wood floor and the stained-glass lamps. It felt safe in the hotel lobby, and it felt comfortable.
The same goes for many of the safe houses. They're more spartan and utilitarian in terms of furnishings, but there's always a nice hot cup of coffee, and Seb's drinking animation, while protracted, gives me a moment to imagine what he's feeling, which is some measure of relief from the cold windy lightning storm outside, where an ominous eye stares down from the sky and monsters prowl the streets and alleyways.
Moving from a cozy environment like the hotel lobby or a safe house back out into the streets with their unpredictable monsters makes the outside world feel suitably hostile, and that contrast is exciting to me. I like that contrast in horror games, moving from cozy areas to uncomfortable ones and back again.
I'm not sure if I'm explaining this well, but for me I think it's part of what makes this game so immersive and allows me to play for eight hours straight without growing weary.
Areas that feel safe and cozy are important for contrast in a horror game. TEW1 was devoid of them — even its safe room equivalent (the hospital ward) felt bleak and unnerving with its strange occurrences, etc. And then the levels themselves were soul-crushing in their darkness and depravity. It was a very "cold" game. I loved it, but it rarely gave you any semblance of safety or comfort, and so the tone became numbing after a while.
TEW2, by contrast, presents an idyllic American town — Union — with cozy homes you can explore and nicely furnished business interiors. After sneaking past a horrifying
Guardian
The same goes for many of the safe houses. They're more spartan and utilitarian in terms of furnishings, but there's always a nice hot cup of coffee, and Seb's drinking animation, while protracted, gives me a moment to imagine what he's feeling, which is some measure of relief from the cold windy lightning storm outside, where an ominous eye stares down from the sky and monsters prowl the streets and alleyways.
Moving from a cozy environment like the hotel lobby or a safe house back out into the streets with their unpredictable monsters makes the outside world feel suitably hostile, and that contrast is exciting to me. I like that contrast in horror games, moving from cozy areas to uncomfortable ones and back again.
I'm not sure if I'm explaining this well, but for me I think it's part of what makes this game so immersive and allows me to play for eight hours straight without growing weary.
That's pretty much how I felt.
psychotron
Member
Yupp, like a nice bonfire in a Dark Souls game, or Firelink Shrine. You need a break from the dread every once in a while. Evil Within felt like different levels of hell.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
Was really looking forward to this until I heard the PC port was bad. Does it really not manage to maintain a locked 60fps for the most part?
theyturkerjurbs
Neo Member
So is there any ability that allows you to knife dudes out when they've been smoke arrow'ed? Just end up running and in and then can't do anything?
Mine was locked at 1440p, I have a dated cpu with gtx 1080ti.
Level 3 upgrade for smoke bolts.
The Xtortionist
Member
I can see it both ways. Comfy areas are nice because they give you that contrast between tension and safety. I think there's some merit to keeping the player in a state of unease, though. By never making the player feel safe, you're compelling them to continually push forward. I think that's consistent with the rollercoaster design of TEW1, while TEW2's increased coziness works with the overall methodical and slower pace of the game.
Third smoke bolt upgrade.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
I realize what I've been doing wrong with the combat- The game gives you a lot more stamina this time, so less standing your ground and more running around.
Of course it's best if you can reset and get the stealth kill but sometimes that's not possible.
Of course it's best if you can reset and get the stealth kill but sometimes that's not possible.
You have to upgrade it to perform sneak kills. Once you do, you can take out like five enemies with one bolt.
As for comfort- Tatiana is all the comfort I need.
They wanted to let us know that seb reactions to these situations now, you know how vocal minority complained about that in the first game.
Him talking constantly in this game bothered me.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
Hmmm, I have a 980 with a 4770k. I was hoping I could at least run the game on high settings at 1080p60fps.
theyturkerjurbs
Neo Member
Many thanks to all your responses 👍
Hey Gaf. I'm at chapter 3. Is the whole game centered around this semi-open world/objectives based gameplay? Because right now I'm not really feeling it (and I'm having fears that Resident Evil 2 Remake might look like this).
The first hour was pretty good but then it just became Dead Island.
(Haven't really read the rest of the thread so sorry if that's been discussed already)
The first hour was pretty good but then it just became Dead Island.
(Haven't really read the rest of the thread so sorry if that's been discussed already)
Sumio Mondo
Member
He worked on this. He actually took a "break" of sorts from directing back in his Capcom days as well after Dino Crisis - he returned to directing with Resident Evil Remake and I recall him mentioning he was going to give up directing in the past as well. He's always been a bit like this, take a break from directing to let his junior staff shine in directorial positions and then comes back again. I think he'll direct again in the future but when that will be is anybody's guess. It took a decade for Suda51 to return to directing again.
I think TEW1 would've really benefited from some cozy areas, though. I'm usually burned out by the time I reach Ch. 10 (which is actually my favorite chapter in the game, but also the most grueling chapter in a game full of grueling chapters).
In general, I'm not sure making players feel uneasy is the best way to compel them forward when the result of moving forward is... another uncomfortable area. TEW1 could be a bit suffocating in this respect, as much as I loved the game. A stronger motivation is the feeling that there will be comfort along the way.
Cozy moments like TEW2's hotel lobby, Italian restaurant, colonial homes and coffee breaks provide some relief from the tension and the dread. Similar to how rollercoasters need bunny hills to break up the long drops.
Astral Dog
Member
Neiteio makes the coziest posts and always makes me excited to play games ☕
Thanks. Just trying to be a bright spot on the internet. :-3
Chaos2Frozen
Member
Every time Sebastian drinks from a new safehouse he should exclaim "Let me explain!" and goes into a rant about coffee brewing.
Riposte
Member
TEW1 did have a "cozy" area: the room you accessed through the mirror. TEW2 seems rather redundant here. Like you enter a safe house, but it doesn't have a workshop, so I'm warping from one safe place to another and back for little reason. TEW1 did something really cool (by my own count one of the only times either game really got under my skin) when it made that office area pitch dark and spooky, turning it into something scary and uncertain.
I guess TEW2 is a little more comfy though, reminds me of Dying Light which had really cozy hideouts to wait out the night (the game reminds me of DL a lot, actually).
I guess TEW2 is a little more comfy though, reminds me of Dying Light which had really cozy hideouts to wait out the night (the game reminds me of DL a lot, actually).
I'm on Ch. 9, but only Ch. 3 and Ch. 7 have been hub worlds so far.
That being said, explore those hub worlds thoroughly some buildings will transport you to more linear scenarios that are optional but so good they should be part of the main story.
Evil Within 2 is very like Silent Hill 2 in that respect. That game does a great job of breaking up its hellish environments with quiet and mournfully beautiful locations. It casts a unique spell that way, and I definitely feel that in EW2 as well.
The Xtortionist
Member
Been mulling this over for a few minutes, and I'll agree that TEW1 could have used a bit less griminess. I don't think it's all doom and gloom, though - the warm hues of chapter 6, sunflower field of chapter 9, and daytime destroyed city of chapter 11 are much less oppressive than chapters like 5, 7, and 13, for example. But there's probably too much of an imbalance there.
I'm also thinking about RE4 - imo the best-paced action game ever, and one I can easily finish in one sitting, time willing. Neither the village or island are what I'd call "cozy", but the castle is almost all good vibes (well, for a RE game
). RE4 definitely doesn't have the emotional lows of TEW1, though; played through chapters 3-7 last night, and my god is chapter 5 grimy. You can nearly taste the grime walking through that place.I agree there is some redundancy when, say, a workbench is absent from the safe house, requiring you to use the mirror to reach Seb's office.
But where comfort is concerned, TEW1 really has nothing on TEW2. Even the mirror world (the hospital ward) was too unsettling to feel safe or comfortable. You mentioned the time the office area was pitch dark; there were other unsettling instances as well, with activity resembling poltergeists, etc. It just felt so bleak, and the whole time I expected enemies to appear there.
When I think of a rare comfortable place in TEW1, I think of the bombed-out funeral home in Ch. 6 (the churchyard level), where Seb and Joseph have a cutscene. Maybe it was the sunlight and abundant greenery, but I felt comfortable there, despite the skulls on the table and the empty caskets lying about.
The Xtortionist
Member
It does.
When I think of comfy areas in RE4, some that come to mind are the belltower safe room in the village, with the trapdoor leading down to the tunnels; the house where Leon wakes up on the opposite shore of the lake in 2-1 (feels cozy hearing the wind and rain outside, but being warm and dry inside); and certain areas of the castle, like the red room with the cool cutscene where Ada drops her sunglasses. I feel like there are many more that are eluding me at the moment, but RE4 definitely has its cozy areas. Like I said with 2-1, some of them are made cozier by the inclement weather outside, i.e. howling winds and pouring rain. Very atmospheric and immersive.Been mulling this over for a few minutes, and I'll agree that TEW1 could have used a bit less griminess. I don't think it's all doom and gloom, though - the warm hues of chapter 6, sunflower field of chapter 9, and daytime destroyed city of chapter 11 are much less oppressive than chapters like 5, 7, and 13, for example. But there's probably too much of an imbalance there.
I'm also thinking about RE4 - imo the best-paced action game ever, and one I can easily finish in one sitting, time willing. Neither the village or island are what I'd call "cozy", but the castle is almost all good vibes (well, for a RE game
100%TrophyMaster
Member
Yeah that pissed me off too--could always seem to get that first stealth hit but everytime after that it seemed impossible--they always turned around and caught me. I finally gave up and ignored them.
Polioliolio
Member
So I just started this last night. I usually play games on Hard, especially since Hard usually means Normal. But this is called "nightmare'.
I've played many survival horror games. I love them. I like challenge. But I don't want to struggle in frustration.. I'm playing with a controller, and there seems to be a bit of joystick lag. It might be because I'm playing on steam link, but in any case, aiming seems a little difficult, and assist isn't allowed in this mode.
I thought, okay, resources are low in this difficulty, I'll try knife kills... Haahaa... nooo.. That didn't work at all...
The first normal enemy killed me in one hit with the health at the regen point, too..
Instead of blowing my ammo on the second enemy banging on the door, I kicked it down and ran.. then stealth killed the few enemies in the way of the first safe house..
Not sure how I should play the game.. survival or nightmare? And exactly how rare is ammo? I'm worried it's extremely rare... I don't want to play so conservatively I'm frustratingly dying over and over trying to conserve..
What do you guys think about the difficulties?
I've played many survival horror games. I love them. I like challenge. But I don't want to struggle in frustration.. I'm playing with a controller, and there seems to be a bit of joystick lag. It might be because I'm playing on steam link, but in any case, aiming seems a little difficult, and assist isn't allowed in this mode.
I thought, okay, resources are low in this difficulty, I'll try knife kills... Haahaa... nooo.. That didn't work at all...
The first normal enemy killed me in one hit with the health at the regen point, too..
Instead of blowing my ammo on the second enemy banging on the door, I kicked it down and ran.. then stealth killed the few enemies in the way of the first safe house..
Not sure how I should play the game.. survival or nightmare? And exactly how rare is ammo? I'm worried it's extremely rare... I don't want to play so conservatively I'm frustratingly dying over and over trying to conserve..
What do you guys think about the difficulties?