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The Evil Within Spoiler Thread | The SPOILERS Within

Loved the game but my only complaint is the NG+ setup. It's basically just chapter select and the game cannot be saved in the middle of a chapter. Killed my desire to grind out gel and max out Sebastian. Would rather replay NG+ from start to finish with normal saves.
 
I have the artbook, it's a glorious thing.

Among Mikami's preface, he hints that the entire game or most of it takes place in the STEM experiment, and also reveals that in an earlier version Sebastian was initially responsible for the barn fire.

The Nurse aka Tatiana Gutierrez was initially going to be a RE4-style merchant before they came up with the idea of the chair, and she's shown dressed in a red hat and coat with a briefcase. The team apparently likes her a lot. There's also a joked about mention of Joseph stealth-based DLC based on Dishonoured called "Dis-Oda'd". It also confirms that Ruvik alludes to 'Rubik', as in Cube.

There are lots of unused enemies (Venus fly trap dog, deep sea diver/mine head, Beehive face etc) and locations, hopefully for use in the sequel if it happens.

It's a great book, full of undisclosed info and little tidbits providing insight into the characters and world. I definitely recommend it for anyone wanting to dig a little deeper into this mysterious game.
 
That missing persons poster of the little girl with the name scribbled out. I could've sworn it looked like it said Lily. Gonna have to go back and check that out again.
 
That missing persons poster of the little girl with the name scribbled out. I could've sworn it looked like it said Lily. Gonna have to go back and check that out again.

It is Kidman, you even see her name if you look close enough, it is rumored that KIDman is the child of Seb, which died in the fire.
 
It is Kidman, you even see her name if you look close enough, it is rumored that KIDman is the child of Seb, which died in the fire.

yeah, that's what I'm starting to think as well though that would make Sebastian considerably older than how he looks in the game. That and the more I think about it, it the face looks just like Juli.
 
yeah, that's what I'm starting to think as well though that would make Sebastian considerably older than how he looks in the game. That and the more I think about it, it the face looks just like Juli.

It is probably Juli, the one thing which I've noticed was that Juli has violet eyes. Dunno if it has anything to do with the story and all, but I found it certainly odd.
 
It is Kidman, you even see her name if you look close enough, it is rumored that KIDman is the child of Seb, which died in the fire.

No need to put that in spoiler tag since this is a spoiler thread.
Kidman is 27 and Sebastian is 38 years old. Does that make sense to you?

Wait, how old IS Sebastian?

He's 38 and the source is the Model Viewer that is unlocked when you beat the game


Also I THINK i found who that person in nearby cell in the mental hospital is that is giving you hints regarding Ruvik. I'll post screenshots of that evidence on Monday.

It's Ivan Diaz, the missing freelancer reporter that lost his camera and notebook in the Village of Elk River.Also he probably died from inside the STEM like doctor Jimenez
 
It is probably Juli, the one thing which I've noticed was that Juli has violet eyes. Dunno if it has anything to do with the story and all, but I found it certainly odd.

I noticed that as well. It could be as it is an unnatural eye color and it stands out when compared to the other characters. That or they could've just wanted her to have that eye color.
 
No need to put that in spoiler tag since this is a spoiler thread.
Kidman is 27 and Sebastian is 38 years old. Does that make sense to you?



He's 38 and the source is the Model Viewer that is unlocked when you beat the game


Also I THINK i found who that person is next cell in the mental hospital that you enter via mirrors. I'll post screenshots of that evidence on Monday.

It's Ivan Diaz, the missing freelancer reporter that lost his camera and notebook in the Village of Elk River.Also he probably died from inside the STEM like doctor Jimenez

Sense in which regard?
You mean the high age differences?
The funny thing is, we never given the actual date in the game.
The dates are only written in the notes.
The thing is why are Julie's eyes violet?, why isn't she effected by Ruben(Ruvik), why has she lost all of her memories?
Memory loss can have different kind of causes. Maybe she is also a clone of somebody else.
And I only wrote it is rumored, not confirmed or anything :P

@Legend
Her eye color has definitely something to do with her, Joseph or Sebastian have totally normal eye colors, but why has Julie such exotic eye color?,
maybe she was enhanced to withstand Ruviks power, to exit and enter when ever she wants. She never turned once, unlike Sebastian or Joseph.
The eye color thing definitely raised an eyebrow to me, hers is very unique, if not unnatural.
 
Sense in which regard?
You mean the high age differences?
The funny thing is, we never given the actual date in the game.
The dates are only written in the notes.

Yes and by the notes only Lily Castellianos, aged 5, died in 11th February 2012.

The last note: Internal Affairs Interview Transcript is dated on 13th, March 2013 while Sebastian was looking a missing person case (his wife?) and apparently dissappeared after that.(The Stem and the beginning of the game?)

Lily should be 6 years old by that time.

NO WAY she is Kidman. The theory that Kidman is Seb's child is debunked...
 
Yes and by the notes only Lily Castellianos, aged 5, died in 11th Feb ruary 2012.

The last note: Internal Affairs Interview Transcript is dated on 13th, March 2013 while Sebastian was looking a missing person case (his wife?) and apparently dissappeared after that.(The Stem and the beggining of the game?)

Lily should be 6 years old by that time.

NO WAY she is Kidman. The theory that Kidman is Seb's child is debunked...

Well after the notes it cannot be far into the future, maybe 2 years prior then.
Still weird, when Ruvik says, I know you Sebastian, everything about you.
One of the things I was like, wtf, why does Ruvik know everything about Seb, if they never met each other?
Guess so he was investigating the disappearance of his wife, the reason he had the interview with the cops.
 
Well after the notes it cannot be far into the future, maybe 2 years prior then.
Still weird, when Ruvik says, I know you Sebastian, everything about you.
One of the things I was like, wtf, why does Ruvik know everything about Seb, if they never met each other?

Guess so he was investigating the disappearance of his wife, the reason he had the interview with internals.

No, by the time Sebastian meets Ruvik from INSIDE the Stem, Ruvik's body was already destroyed by an organisation.

the only thing that's left from the person "Ruvik" was his preserved brain (by the organisation?). His preserved brain is connected to the STEM (a machine that everyone's connected consiousness becomes ONE REALITY.Like the Matrix).The master host consiousness is Ruvik's brain and everyone that connects automatically "shares" his/her memories,consiousness,information,etc.
Everyone that is connected to the STEM is "known" to Ruvik
 
No, by the time Sebastian meets Ruvik from INSIDE the Stem, Ruvik's body was already destroyed by an organisation.

the only thing that's left from the person "Ruvik" was his preserved brain (by the organisation?). His preserved brain is connected to the STEM (a machine that everyone's connected consiousness becomes ONE REALITY.Like the Matrix).The master host consiousness is Ruvik's brain and everyone that connects automatically "shares" his/her memories,consiousness,information,etc.
Everyone that is connected to the STEM is "known" to Ruvik

Yeah I got that, but I was more into the thing, he knew everything about Seb, but Kidman was pretty on loose ends here.
Like Ruvik never noticed that Kidman was in the STEM.
Or did I misinterpreted that, with Ruvik saying that to Seb I was on the impression he knows his whole history, with his wife and his child.
 
Yeah I got that, but I was more into the thing, he knew everything about Seb, but Kidman was pretty on loose ends here. Like Ruvik never noticed that Kidman was in the STEM.

Basically we know NOTHING about Kidman. No matter how hard i tried to connect the dots about her through the newspapers,audio files,notes, etc i couldn't find anything about the organisation she worked for and how is connected to the game.

We'll get a clearer picture about her on the upcoming DLC
 
Yeah I got that, but I was more into the thing, he knew everything about Seb, but Kidman was pretty on loose ends here. Like Ruvik never noticed that Kidman was in the STEM.

Apparently she had her memories erased. So maybe that gave her invisibility to Ruvik since she was a blank slate. Doesn't really explain how she got trapped in that glass box filling with water. Then again, that box never fills up all the way, no matter how long you wait. Could just be a gameplay thing where they didn't want to impose a time limit on you. But you could read it as Ruvik being unable to kill Kidman himself, which is why he has to rely on turning Sebastian and Joseph. Julie says "He's trying to stop me through you." after Seb attacks her.
 
Basically we know NOTHING about Kidman. No matter how hard i tried to connect the dots about her through the newspapers,audio files,notes, etc i couldn't find anything about the organisation she worked for and how is connected to the game.

We'll get a clearer picture about her on the upcoming DLC

Would be my guess too. Still weird, that she was more of a character which was left in the shadows. I hope the violet eye thing gets explained too. And the immunity against Ruviks stuff.

@Super

Yeah, that was odd too, she never drowned after the fight against the enemies. Well no memories for Ruvik, so he cannot project anything from her brain.
Still weird she does not want to know more about her past.
 
Great thread. Read through most of it, I'll probably share my view on the story once I get a good night's sleep, as I'm freshly out of my first run and still kinda dizzy after the final chapters ;)

Also am I the only one who said "what the fuck" out loud while playing even more often than Seb did?

Apparently she had her memories erased. So maybe that gave her invisibility to Ruvik since she was a blank slate. Doesn't really explain how she got trapped in that glass box filling with water. Then again, that box never fills up all the way, no matter how long you wait. Could just be a gameplay thing where they didn't want to impose a time limit on you. But you could read it as Ruvik being unable to kill Kidman himself, which is why he has to rely on turning Sebastian and Joseph. Julie says "He's trying to stop me through you." after Seb attacks her.

Mind giving a source for this? I completely missed it if it was in game.
 
Loved the game but my only complaint is the NG+ setup. It's basically just chapter select and the game cannot be saved in the middle of a chapter. Killed my desire to grind out gel and max out Sebastian. Would rather replay NG+ from start to finish with normal saves.

Uhm

Actually you just have to press 'Continue' after finishing the game and it lets you replay the game on the same difficulty with all you upgrades and unlockables.
 
OK, this post ended up kinda messy, but this game's choppy narrative makes it hard for me to write my thoughts on it down in an orderly manner.

I think I'm in the "nothing was real" team, I think the whole game was like Inception - going through multiple layers of memories (maybe each time you disconnected some Haunted from the STEM, you were actually getting one level closer to reality or something like this - the game makes it very clear that getting to those STEM rooms and seeing visions of the giant brain are important moments, and Joseph remarks they seem to be getting you closer to the Beacon each time). To me it seems the moment with Kidman winking to Seb in the last scene and maybe those brief flashbacks with being wheeled through some hospital corridors are the only "real" moments in the story.
The intro is definitely in the STEM because otherwise, how could Ruvik have superpowers in the real world? Similarly, in the ending sequence, there's Leslie's sudden disappearance and the flash that seemed to signal "this is not real" to me. I don't completely get how Ruvik could ever gain his powers in the real world (in the game I didn't really grasp what his goal was supposed to be other than fucking with the people's minds and merging with Leslie for... something), but maybe I missed something crucial. I'm making a second playthrough now trying to piece things together; watching early cutscenes again is already interesting when you know what happens next.

The way I'm seeing the story now is roughly this: shitty stuff happens to Ruvik and turns him into a psychopath. He murders his parents and starts crazy experiments, aided by Jimenez, who is cynically using his research and eventually betrays him to Mobius (and is made head of Beacon as a reward), who then strip Ruvik into a brain and continue his research for their own goals. Kidman is abducted at a young age and presumably trained to work for them, then joins the KCPD for some undercover work most likely, or possibly to keep an eye on Seb as he caught Mobius' interest for some reason. Mobius burns his house and child, Seb starts drinking, Myra investigates the case and goes missing (presumably not connected to the STEM because we'd meet her if that was the case, she doesn't get a missing poster either IIRC), Seb follows her lead and gets plugged into STEM. Joseph most likely get captured and plugged in looking for Seb. Kidman gets plugged in for some reason, maybe to keep an eye on them or keep them convinced what's going on is actually reality? So they do illusory police work for some time, then the illusion falls apart as Ruvik starts messing around, probably trying to get Leslie (who got connected for some experiment maybe? same as Jimenez?), and unleashes hell. Seb fights his way through, learning the story of Ruvik and Jimenez on the way, eventually defeating Ruvik (or rather, Ruvik's influence on his own consciousness) and stomping his brain (which I don't believe was real, I think the real brain is still owned by Mobius at the end of the game).
I have no idea what place Tatiana or the church have in this. DuskGolem's view on Tatiana's story sounds very convincing to me, I'm not sure about the church though. I initially expected them to be a reimagining of Los Illuminados, but their role ended up kinda marginal - to the point where I wonder if they even did any experiments at all, or if they were just a regular religious group and you just view them through Ruvik's passionate hate towards them. Or maybe they did do crazy experiments and that was what inspired Ruvik to start his own once he succumbed to madness.

I wonder what Kidman's actual role and purpose in the events was, if she was just trying to make sure things go smoothly for Mobius (as in, Ruvik not getting out of control through Leslie) or if she had some other agenda of her own. And who was really right in her conflict with Seb over Leslie - was Ruvik simply using Seb to protect Leslie and himself from Kidman? Is that "the thing he was gonna make Seb do", enabling his merging with Leslie? In other words, I'm wondering if Kidman is the Wesker or Ada in this story. I guess the DLC should shed some light on this.
Also why on earth did anyone think plugging Leslie into the STEM was a good idea if they knew Ruvik needs him for his own purpose? It kinda seems like Mobius plugged Leslie in, then realized it was a mistake, and instead of unplugging him sent Kidman to kill him inside STEM (but only if nobody's looking and they already talked and wandered around holding hands, definitely not at first sight!), which makes little to no sense.

The timeline has me scratching my head. A lot of weaponry in the game is not modern (it's mentioned openly in the rifle description, and the grenades are not looking 2014 to me either), a lot of assets like radios and TVs are definitely early to middle 20th century, and Seb's and Joseph's clothing is kind of oldtimey looking, too. Judging by Seb's looks, I'd be betting the game is set in the 20s, or even Victorian times.
Now, we don't know how long Ruvik has been in brain-only form, but he worked with dr. Jimenez before being betrayed, so it couldn't have been like half a century - again his family and mansion look oldtimey to me. I need to take another look at the newspaper dates I guess.

Anyone knows if there's any significance to the religious symbols by the locked cells in the safe room (there's one by the cell opposite Seb's, two by the cell next door - I believe it's Ivan's - and three by the last one)? Or what's the deal with the safe room sometimes appearing in color, and sometimes in black and white, with the b&w version seemingly "evil" - it changes right after you read Tatiana's missing poster, for instance. Actually, the whole "Tatiana disappears once you've read the poster" thing makes me think of some "perception is reality" angle in the story, though I guess it's kind of a given when everything is inside people's heads (as I believe the whole game was).
Also, anyone cares to explain the achievement names for killing the Amalgam Alpha "The first, not the last" and the Amalgam "One of the many"? They don't seem to make much sense to me, especially compared to the Model Viewer descriptions, and I thought they might be some sort of a clue about what was going on and what the creatures represented.

As a completely side note, a lobotomy has to be some of the scariest and most disturbing shit ever. I nearly puked trying to read a wikipedia article on the procedure, and I don't exactly consider myself hypersensitive :| Fucking hell.
 
Good theory. But I cant be serious about game story when Mikami himself give an interview that he doesnt care about story. There is no such complication or carefully thought about things in game. Just a guy gone crazy mind through out the whole game.
 
Read it on the game's wiki, which is really early and full of grammatical errors. So take it with a grain of salt.

That Wiki's entry for Juli, at least the description of her, is taken verbatim from the artbook, so it can be considered canon if the book is.

Great post, Nemmy.

Good theory. But I cant be serious about game story when Mikami himself give an interview that he doesnt care about story. There is no such complication or carefully thought about things in game. Just a guy gone crazy mind through out the whole game.

What's cool about TEW's story though is that it's disclosed in bits and pieces, and when thought through, they start to come together. It's not attempting to say anything particularly amazing, but it's a neat and fairly novel horror story.
 
Good theory. But I cant be serious about game story when Mikami himself give an interview that he doesnt care about story. There is no such complication or carefully thought about things in game. Just a guy gone crazy mind through out the whole game.

I don't know man, I compared the missing posters to the chapters in which they're found today and there's a clear connection in most cases (and some of them I don't remember in detail so I'll need to play again to compare). There's a lot of details in the dialogue and backgroud assets in the early game that don't really make particular sense until you know the later parts (like "we can't get out" scribblings on the walls in the Village or Kidman's "I'm SURE we'll know everything once we get there" when asked what she thinks about the events at the Beacon hospital).
I'm not saying this is a masterpiece of a story and I don't think it is, but it was good enough to keep me wanting to see the ending and to keep thinking about it after I saw it. Having read that story seems to be most reviewers' main complaint about the game, I was expecting much, much less definitely.

And I don't usually care for stories in videogames, either. TEW managed to get me intrigued enough that I still want to know what it was all about, even after the game left it deliberately unclear.
 
Hey guys. Haven't posted in here yet, but I'm loving all the detective work that's been going on, and there's been some interesting finds so far.

Just started my second run of the game, now playing on Nightmare mode. I'm sure this is something most people already caught (maybe even from the trailers), and it's just something I totally missed, but upon replaying the intro, I just noticed that Seb is being given what looks like a lobotomy by Ruvik, with a lobotomy spike. Found that pretty interesting.

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Forgive the screen tearing.
 
An interesting in your face thing that I didn't quite consider until now. In the save game screen, we can't actually see Sebastian's face in his ID picture, it's all messed up. Pretty weird.
 
Finished this the other night. Final boss looked cool, but the fight was a little ass-y. Wanted a one-on-one Tyrant-like fight with Ruvik, etc. The rocket launcher nod to old school RE games was cool, but I left the final sequence kind of feeling like, "oh...it's over, I guess?". I did have a lot to say about this game and I put down a bunch of my thoughts over in the OT, but I don't think I'm on the same page as the majority here, as most of my concerns/critiques were more or less ignored. I'm so beyond out of the loop as to how people (at least on this site) view games and what they value anymore, so I'll just leave it at that. TEW was an interesting game, but it's got way too many ups & downs for me to consider it a classic. Definitely not even close to being one of my favorite Mikami games. To be quite honest, I'm disappointed with this whole project.
 
I really love the game. I wasn't let down by the ending because I had begun to expect that it wouldn't be a good resolved ending (because you typically do not get those lately anymore in games, due to DLC/Sequel IP planning, and in particular with Japanese games because Japan seems to really not like fully resolved endings).

But it was a wild ride. I have so many thoughts about it I hope you'll humor me a little and entertain my ramblings a bit since there's so much to digest about the game.

The Story (Ruvik)

I think it's better to think of this game as Ruvik's story than Sebastian's. Jackie Earle Haley was perfect for the role and hopefully he'll make a return. The game quickly becomes a journey through Ruvik's mind and we see that each chapter typically has some sort of symbolic value for him.

By the end of the game we know all about Ruben Victoriano. A young prodigy from an affluent family who also had mental issues, he was approached by Dr. Jimenez to help create the groundbreaking STEM system. Soon after however Ruben's life became more disjointed with the death of Laura and the severe damage to his body. His Father apparently locked him away in the basement for whatever reasons, but all that only served to drive him further into madness. In addition to Ruben becoming incensed at the Church his father belonged to for their transgressions that really bothered him.

He eventually would snap and kill his mom and dad and then set it up so it seemed like they died in an accident, thus inheriting their fortune and enabling him to continue the work on Stem without any issues. However, he later realized that Jimenez was taking all the credit and accolades for the work (and likely began to realize the organization he worked for was corrupt and perhaps involved with the Church as well). Becoming distrustful of the man and learning more about the organization he worked for, he began to take measures to try and fend them off while trying to complete the work on his own. It seemed hinted that Valentino became a serial killer dumping bodies after he finished performing his experiments on them. His mansion would also burn down due to unexplained reasons.

He underestimated Jimenez and the organization though, and they eventually caught up to him and captured his work, using himself as the catalyst and first test subject for the STEM. Subjecting him to the same experiments he had done to others, his body was eventually completely destroyed with only his Brain remaining connected to the STEM. Though apparently there was no way to make the system work without Ruvik connected to it, and attempts to use other subjects to make it work ended up with those subjects brain dead. At some point they found a subject which did work, Leslie Withers. I imagine they probably thought about using him as a replacement for Ruvik, however they inadvertently gave him exactly what he was looking for, a replacement for his body. Thus setting up the premise for the game.

Somehow Ruvik manages to manifest himself in the real world and enact a massacre at the Beacon Hospital, this drawing the attention of our protagonist Sebastian and his partners. All of them are somehow knocked unconscious and connected to the STEM system (though it seems Julie was able to withstand the effects and connected herself willingly in order to move forward with her own mission). Ruvik uses the STEM to create a world of his own image filled with his inner demons and memories to torment and ensnare his victims. It is unclear just how many victims total he integrated into his machine. We can only assume that all those "MISSING" posters we find in the "Hub" world are his victims. I would imagine most of the characters encountered in the STEM world are possibly leftover fragments of those tormented souls, like Valerio.

In the end Ruvik manages to get to Leslie and seemingly absorbs him. Though Sebastian imagined himself defeating Ruvik's machine-self and squashing his brain, we see in the ending that the brain jar was already empty (though that begs the question what happened to his brain? I assume the organization probably took it to study) and Leslie walking away without anyone other than Seb noticing.

Sebastian

Where people would likely be disappointed with the Story is in terms of the other characters and their own arcs. Particularly Sebastian who has his own personal story told from within the Hub world and is left unresolved. We know that Sebastian was married to another Cop named Myra and they had a daughter Lilly. One day however Lilly and her babysitter were killed in what was thought to be an accident. However Myra began to suspect it was foul play and began her own investigation, becoming distant to Seb in the process, which to outsiders made it look like she was becoming unhappy in the marriage. She eventually disappears without a trace, which to outsiders looks like she willfully left Seb due to his drinking problems, though Seb later finds evidence that she was investigating the organization behind STEM and got too close. He resolves to find out what happened, though we are left to assume this occurred just before the incident at Beacon Hospital.

What is not touched upon much in the game is that Seb seems to show many times that he finds his surroundings familiar in addition to Ruvik implying that he knows of Seb. I suppose it is possible that Seb would have visited the Victoriano manor in the past given how much police activity likely took place there, but one would think he'd have remembered those incidents with more clarity.

Seb's biggest plothole is the existence of the "Hub" world and what it represents. In it we have the mysterious Tatiana the nurse as well as a "cell neighbor" whom is left purposefully unobviously unidentified (though many believe it is the missing journalist who was investigating the organization and Ruvik's role in it). The world itself seems to change a few times. One time in between chapters it turns black and white and nurse Tatiana is covered in blood, and following her leads him to the Church Chapter. Another time Ruvik presumably uses his influence to change it up to resemble the Manor, and later to symbolize the decaying world crumbling around them. Nurse Tatiana disappears once Seb realizes she went "Missing" in the real world. It is worth noting he typically returns to this world once uncovering memories of his life with Myra.

Seb's visions are harder to categorize given how quickly they flash before him. We see one where he's presumably being strapped down and being led by gurney somewhere (possibly being taken to STEM). In another weird one we see him from his point of view in a STEM terminal being shot at by what appears to be himself. I suppose it is possible that being connected to STEM, he maybe was receiving visions from the others who were connected and looking at things from their points of view.

In the end I suppose many of these plot points may end up going nowhere, but it is fun to think about.

The Chapters

I wonder what everyone's thoughts are regarding the Chapters themselves and the settings and symbolism behind them are. I did enjoy that most chapters seemed to be creations based on Ruvik's mind, while others seemed to represent the obstacles that were put in place to prevent Seb and co from reaching the metaphorical core of the world.

Chapter 1: I felt as an intro it was ok, but I think I would have preferred a more gradual descent into darkness than the dive that was taken. It made it more obvious that the world was fake and that what was happening was most certainly not real.

Chapter 2-3: I suppose the reason for this location to exist was because it was near the hospice that Leslie was often kept at, and was likely created from Jimenez' memories and used by Ruvik to draw Leslie out.

Chapter 4-5: As Ruvik pinpoints Leslie's location, I think a battle of wills takes place with Ruvik creating a recreation of the Hospital in his own twisted mind and thus we are left wandering the halls of a place where Ruvik's inner demons, such as Laura, are given form.

Chapter 6: I found this Chapter very interesting in the way it was presented, using the photographs in the Hub to give it an eerie progression. But it is clearly created from Ruvik's distaste of the church (complimented by the articles and recordings found during this chapter).

Chapter 7: The Keeper is pretty straightforward which combines the Church catacombs with an industrial workshop fitting for the entity which symbolizes the hatred and secrets that are kept locked within Ruvik's mind.

Chapter 8: This is the Chapter I just do not get. There is little contained within in terms of documentation and no cutscenes to add any points. I suppose the only thing it could symbolize is Seb trying to ascend from the depths he was taken down to in his search.

Chapter 9-10: Going directly to the heart of the matter by peering into Ruvik's past and uncovering the sordid details of his upbringing and work. First with a visit to his Manor to uncover what caused his trauma and what dark secrets he was working on for STEM, and then to his "workshop" to see just what Horrors he brought upon those who were unlucky to be chosen for experimentation.

Chapter 11-15: At this point the game changes to the now obvious goal of getting to the Hospital where it all started to stop Ruvik. While no doubt trying to lure Leslie to him, he also throws everything he can at Seb and co to stop them from interfering.



Man there's so much to digest with this game. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing the holes filled in hopefully in new installments and expansions.
 
Somehow Ruvik manages to manifest himself in the real world and enact a massacre at the Beacon Hospital, this drawing the attention of our protagonist Sebastian and his partners.

I think you're 100% on point with the story up until this part. It's clear Mikami is again going for a science-based horror, so the only way Ruvik could have massacred the hospital staff was if he did it as Leslie, and Mobius weren't monitoring him when he did it, or allowed him to do it, or did it themselves and made Sebastian think Ruvik did it. But these all seem like pretty remote scenarios to me. I think the idea of Sebastian being connected to STEM for the entirety of the game makes more sense, since even the ending hints at it. The massacre could even be a memory of a traumatic case of Sebastian's.

It's a lot of fun to hypothesise about the story, and we're really no closer to getting to the meat of it. I want DLC!

Chapter 1: I felt as an intro it was ok, but I think I would have preferred a more gradual descent into darkness than the dive that was taken. It made it more obvious that the world was fake and that what was happening was most certainly not real.

I also agree with this, I think it's the weakest part of the game. I would have preferred something more grounded, which gradually gives way to uncertainty. Although you can buy it at that point that you're playing some sort of freaky ghost/haunted house adventure, rather than the hallucinatory techno-horror it becomes.
 
I gotta say, once I finished the game for the first time I was pretty disappointed with the story, but going through this thread, reading theories on other forums and reading all the juicy info from the model viewer I've warmed up to it. The characters are still as dull as plain bread and the story could have been explained much better and could have been presented in a more exciting manner, but if you dig enough the game does give you just enough story to piece most of it together. The core story of Ruvic's revenge and his desire to find a host for his consciousness so he can basically come back to life is very interesting and has a lot of potential for the DLC and a possible sequel (please let this game have a sequel). The vagueness of some of it makes for some interesting discussion too.

What I don't get is why the hell Leslie was hooked up to the STEM machine in the first place? I mean didn't Julie and her organisation ultimately want to stop Ruvic from basically taking over his body and escaping into the real world? So why have Leslie hooked up in the first place? Also, it's pretty much known that everyone was hooked up and linked together to the STEM machine from the very opening, with the biggest clue being the sharp noise heard by everyone except for Julie in the car. I watched the last cut-scene again and realised that it happens to Seb again once he leaves the hospital, so does that mean it's still not the real world when he walks out at the end? It would be so perfect if it was the real world since you see Leslie (now Ruvic) strut out of the gates finally getting what he wanted after all this time. If it's still somehow not the real world, for me it just cheapens the ending and is way less badass. Thoughts?
 
Yeah I guess the story could have been presented in a more exciting way, but I can't help but love the game for putting so much of it into documents and files, like the games of old did. It's probably an unpopular opinion, and one of the reasons critics complained about TEW feeling outdated, but it actually felt refreshing to me - the game gave me the pieces of the puzzle and trusted my intelligence and willingness to put them together, instead of spoonfeeding me a bloated, dramatic narrative.
Parts of the story being obviously kept for the DLC is a completely different issue though, and kinda hurts the good impression.

Regarding the ending, it's 50/50 chance for it being the real world if you ask me. The sound wave might be a clue that Seb's still in the STEM, or it might mean that Ruvik has real world powers after merging with Leslie (though I have no idea how that would supposedly work). Really not sure.
But I think it's a quite powerful ending either way, as both options have the "it's far from over and you're still screwed" angle to them, either because Seb's still trapped - sorta like the ending to that first Silent Hill movie - or because he got out, but helped unleash Ruvik on everyone else on the way.
 
Yeah I guess the story could have been presented in a more exciting way, but I can't help but love the game for putting so much of it into documents and files, like the games of old did. It's probably an unpopular opinion, and one of the reasons critics complained about TEW feeling outdated, but it actually felt refreshing to me - the game gave me the pieces of the puzzle and trusted my intelligence and willingness to put them together, instead of spoonfeeding me a bloated, dramatic narrative.
Parts of the story being obviously kept for the DLC is a completely different issue though, and kinda hurts the good impression.

Regarding the ending, it's 50/50 chance for it being the real world if you ask me. The sound wave might be a clue that Seb's still in the STEM, or it might mean that Ruvik has real world powers after merging with Leslie (though I have no idea how that would supposedly work). Really not sure.
But I think it's a quite powerful ending either way, as both options have the "it's far from over and you're still screwed" angle to them, either because Seb's still trapped - sorta like the ending to that first Silent Hill movie - or because he got out, but helped unleash Ruvik on everyone else on the way.

Yeah, I think the ending is 50/50 for being the real world or not too. I think Mikami obviously tried to pull off another Inception type of ending, but I don't think it really works here. I feel like the ending should have been more clear. I wanted to know if it was the real world or not, and not knowing just left me feeling a bit disappointed instead of it coming across as a cool little moment. I'm still going to assume it was the real world, because I think that's a more fitting end, and it makes more sense to me despite Seb hearing that loud noise when he left the hospital, which I'm assuming is Ruvic focusing on trying to control the person. Or maybe someone is simply altering the STEM machine in some way when that happens? I wish we knew exactly what that loud noise was when it happen to the characters. I mean for all we know it might not even mean any of what I just said and the ending scene was the real world as a fact.

And I'm still at a loss as to why Leslie was plugged into the STEM machine in the first place. Why the hell would Julie even connect herself up to the STEM machine and try and kill Leslie through Ruvic's twisted mind (thus preventing him from merging with Ruvic's consciousness) instead of just killing Leslie in the real world? That doesn't make sense to me at all? Hopefully it's cleared up in the DLC. It seems like a pretty big plot hole unless I'm missing something that just went over my head when it was explained?
 
What I don't get is why the hell Leslie was hooked up to the STEM machine in the first place? I mean didn't Julie and her organisation ultimately want to stop Ruvic from basically taking over his body and escaping into the real world?

They probably want to perfect the 'brain transplant' technology and sell it to the military or intelligence agencies, or use it for themselves. Such a tool would in theory be politically very, very powerful, and potentially make someone very wealthy. The only time the technology ever showed a chance of success was with Ruvik and Leslie, so they're key to refining it.

Juli though? No idea. Is she a good guy or a bad guy? We never knew with Ada either.

Yeah I guess the story could have been presented in a more exciting way, but I can't help but love the game for putting so much of it into documents and files, like the games of old did. It's probably an unpopular opinion, and one of the reasons critics complained about TEW feeling outdated, but it actually felt refreshing to me - the game gave me the pieces of the puzzle and trusted my intelligence and willingness to put them together, instead of spoonfeeding me a bloated, dramatic narrative.

Totally agree. But I'm happy with the game's plot as it is, sans DLC. Obviously I want to know more, and DLC will hopefully supply that, but I don't see it as a cheap or cynical ruse because I think the game does a good job of being both interesting and satisfyingly ambiguous throughout the 15 chapters we have.
 
And I'm still at a loss as to why Leslie was plugged into the STEM machine in the first place. Why the hell would Julie even connect herself up to the STEM machine and try and kill Leslie through Ruvic's twisted mind (thus preventing him from merging with Ruvic's consciousness) instead of just killing Leslie in the real world? That doesn't make sense to me at all? Hopefully it's cleared up in the DLC. It seems like a pretty big plot hole unless I'm missing something that just went over my head when it was explained?

Yeah, I asked the same thing a bit earlier in the thread as I just don't get this. Even if they plugged him in and realized it was a bad idea afterwards, why didn't they just unplug him instead of sending Juli to kill him "in the Matrix"? Seems like a parody of villainy if you ask me...

Unless of course the DLC gives a good explanation for this, I hope it will.
 
I think you're 100% on point with the story up until this part. It's clear Mikami is again going for a science-based horror, so the only way Ruvik could have massacred the hospital staff was if he did it as Leslie, and Mobius weren't monitoring him when he did it, or allowed him to do it, or did it themselves and made Sebastian think Ruvik did it. But these all seem like pretty remote scenarios to me. I think the idea of Sebastian being connected to STEM for the entirety of the game makes more sense, since even the ending hints at it. The massacre could even be a memory of a traumatic case of Sebastian's.
Yeah, like people have said I think it is a toss up at this point whether the Intro and Ending scenes are "real" or not. The thing is Jimenez then shouldn't have been so utterly shocked when he saw Ruvik on the security monitors, since he should have been aware that they were already in STEM.

But of course in the ending you've got Kidman seem to cryptically hint that "all of us are trapped" (maybe Mikami is going for the whole world is in a Matrix kind of deal) and then Leslie/Ruvik using his ability in "real" world.
I also agree with this, I think it's the weakest part of the game. I would have preferred something more grounded, which gradually gives way to uncertainty. Although you can buy it at that point that you're playing some sort of freaky ghost/haunted house adventure, rather than the hallucinatory techno-horror it becomes.
Pretty much my thought on this. I was sort of starting to already doubt the world once it broke apart quite spectacularly, but I was pretty much convinced already in Chapter 2 when you see the Beacon Lighthouse in the distance and read a note that states it was never there before.

With regards to Leslie, I imagine he is very valuable given his capability of withstanding Ruvik in STEM since he'd be worthless to them dead (and especially if he was needed to replace Ruvik), and maybe wanted her to get him thus to get him alive if possible, but to kill him if Ruvik was going to get him instead.
 
In chapter 4, when you fight the first invisible enemy, there is a wall of pictures that seem to have Seb on them. It's hard to tell for sure since the some of the pictures are hard to see. I wonder if that represents that Ruvik was stalking Seb or maybe someone from Mobious since it is near the hospice where you fight Jimenez's brother.
 
I really love the game. I wasn't let down by the ending because I had begun to expect that it wouldn't be a good resolved ending (because you typically do not get those lately anymore in games, due to DLC/Sequel IP planning, and in particular with Japanese games because Japan seems to really not like fully resolved endings).

But it was a wild ride. I have so many thoughts about it I hope you'll humor me a little and entertain my ramblings a bit since there's so much to digest about the game.

The Story (Ruvik)

I think it's better to think of this game as Ruvik's story than Sebastian's. Jackie Earle Haley was perfect for the role and hopefully he'll make a return. The game quickly becomes a journey through Ruvik's mind and we see that each chapter typically has some sort of symbolic value for him.

By the end of the game we know all about Ruben Victoriano. A young prodigy from an affluent family who also had mental issues, he was approached by Dr. Jimenez to help create the groundbreaking STEM system. Soon after however Ruben's life became more disjointed with the death of Laura and the severe damage to his body. His Father apparently locked him away in the basement for whatever reasons, but all that only served to drive him further into madness. In addition to Ruben becoming incensed at the Church his father belonged to for their transgressions that really bothered him.

He eventually would snap and kill his mom and dad and then set it up so it seemed like they died in an accident, thus inheriting their fortune and enabling him to continue the work on Stem without any issues. However, he later realized that Jimenez was taking all the credit and accolades for the work (and likely began to realize the organization he worked for was corrupt and perhaps involved with the Church as well). Becoming distrustful of the man and learning more about the organization he worked for, he began to take measures to try and fend them off while trying to complete the work on his own. It seemed hinted that Valentino became a serial killer dumping bodies after he finished performing his experiments on them. His mansion would also burn down due to unexplained reasons.

He underestimated Jimenez and the organization though, and they eventually caught up to him and captured his work, using himself as the catalyst and first test subject for the STEM. Subjecting him to the same experiments he had done to others, his body was eventually completely destroyed with only his Brain remaining connected to the STEM. Though apparently there was no way to make the system work without Ruvik connected to it, and attempts to use other subjects to make it work ended up with those subjects brain dead. At some point they found a subject which did work, Leslie Withers. I imagine they probably thought about using him as a replacement for Ruvik, however they inadvertently gave him exactly what he was looking for, a replacement for his body. Thus setting up the premise for the game.

Somehow Ruvik manages to manifest himself in the real world and enact a massacre at the Beacon Hospital, this drawing the attention of our protagonist Sebastian and his partners. All of them are somehow knocked unconscious and connected to the STEM system (though it seems Julie was able to withstand the effects and connected herself willingly in order to move forward with her own mission). Ruvik uses the STEM to create a world of his own image filled with his inner demons and memories to torment and ensnare his victims. It is unclear just how many victims total he integrated into his machine. We can only assume that all those "MISSING" posters we find in the "Hub" world are his victims. I would imagine most of the characters encountered in the STEM world are possibly leftover fragments of those tormented souls, like Valerio.

In the end Ruvik manages to get to Leslie and seemingly absorbs him. Though Sebastian imagined himself defeating Ruvik's machine-self and squashing his brain, we see in the ending that the brain jar was already empty (though that begs the question what happened to his brain? I assume the organization probably took it to study) and Leslie walking away without anyone other than Seb noticing.

Sebastian

Where people would likely be disappointed with the Story is in terms of the other characters and their own arcs. Particularly Sebastian who has his own personal story told from within the Hub world and is left unresolved. We know that Sebastian was married to another Cop named Myra and they had a daughter Lilly. One day however Lilly and her babysitter were killed in what was thought to be an accident. However Myra began to suspect it was foul play and began her own investigation, becoming distant to Seb in the process, which to outsiders made it look like she was becoming unhappy in the marriage. She eventually disappears without a trace, which to outsiders looks like she willfully left Seb due to his drinking problems, though Seb later finds evidence that she was investigating the organization behind STEM and got too close. He resolves to find out what happened, though we are left to assume this occurred just before the incident at Beacon Hospital.

What is not touched upon much in the game is that Seb seems to show many times that he finds his surroundings familiar in addition to Ruvik implying that he knows of Seb. I suppose it is possible that Seb would have visited the Victoriano manor in the past given how much police activity likely took place there, but one would think he'd have remembered those incidents with more clarity.

Seb's biggest plothole is the existence of the "Hub" world and what it represents. In it we have the mysterious Tatiana the nurse as well as a "cell neighbor" whom is left purposefully unobviously unidentified (though many believe it is the missing journalist who was investigating the organization and Ruvik's role in it). The world itself seems to change a few times. One time in between chapters it turns black and white and nurse Tatiana is covered in blood, and following her leads him to the Church Chapter. Another time Ruvik presumably uses his influence to change it up to resemble the Manor, and later to symbolize the decaying world crumbling around them. Nurse Tatiana disappears once Seb realizes she went "Missing" in the real world. It is worth noting he typically returns to this world once uncovering memories of his life with Myra.

Seb's visions are harder to categorize given how quickly they flash before him. We see one where he's presumably being strapped down and being led by gurney somewhere (possibly being taken to STEM). In another weird one we see him from his point of view in a STEM terminal being shot at by what appears to be himself. I suppose it is possible that being connected to STEM, he maybe was receiving visions from the others who were connected and looking at things from their points of view.

In the end I suppose many of these plot points may end up going nowhere, but it is fun to think about.

The Chapters

I wonder what everyone's thoughts are regarding the Chapters themselves and the settings and symbolism behind them are. I did enjoy that most chapters seemed to be creations based on Ruvik's mind, while others seemed to represent the obstacles that were put in place to prevent Seb and co from reaching the metaphorical core of the world.

Chapter 1: I felt as an intro it was ok, but I think I would have preferred a more gradual descent into darkness than the dive that was taken. It made it more obvious that the world was fake and that what was happening was most certainly not real.

Chapter 2-3: I suppose the reason for this location to exist was because it was near the hospice that Leslie was often kept at, and was likely created from Jimenez' memories and used by Ruvik to draw Leslie out.

Chapter 4-5: As Ruvik pinpoints Leslie's location, I think a battle of wills takes place with Ruvik creating a recreation of the Hospital in his own twisted mind and thus we are left wandering the halls of a place where Ruvik's inner demons, such as Laura, are given form.

Chapter 6: I found this Chapter very interesting in the way it was presented, using the photographs in the Hub to give it an eerie progression. But it is clearly created from Ruvik's distaste of the church (complimented by the articles and recordings found during this chapter).

Chapter 7: The Keeper is pretty straightforward which combines the Church catacombs with an industrial workshop fitting for the entity which symbolizes the hatred and secrets that are kept locked within Ruvik's mind.

Chapter 8: This is the Chapter I just do not get. There is little contained within in terms of documentation and no cutscenes to add any points. I suppose the only thing it could symbolize is Seb trying to ascend from the depths he was taken down to in his search.

Chapter 9-10: Going directly to the heart of the matter by peering into Ruvik's past and uncovering the sordid details of his upbringing and work. First with a visit to his Manor to uncover what caused his trauma and what dark secrets he was working on for STEM, and then to his "workshop" to see just what Horrors he brought upon those who were unlucky to be chosen for experimentation.

Chapter 11-15: At this point the game changes to the now obvious goal of getting to the Hospital where it all started to stop Ruvik. While no doubt trying to lure Leslie to him, he also throws everything he can at Seb and co to stop them from interfering.



Man there's so much to digest with this game. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing the holes filled in hopefully in new installments and expansions.

Wow. I tought I didn't like the story and stopped playing after chapter 7. You made me want to play it again. You did an awesome job decomplexing the story. Hats off. Awesome read. :D
 
Leslie walks like Ruvik at the end.

At first the ending didn't make sense to me.
Now it is starting to come together.

And somehow I didn't realize spider lady was Laura. -_-
 
I actually never thought the game was trying to convince me the Sadist in the beginning was real. The moment that scene started I was like "yeah, here comes the crazy."
So if that was the intent then it's kind of a massive failure.

By the way, random observation I made today: the room where you first meet Laura in chapter 4 is identical to the room where Sebastian is wheeled in and then left by the nurse and doctor in the weird red scene in the very beginning of the game. Don't know if it's accidental or not, or if that room shows up in later parts of the game again, but I'll be on a lookout for it.
 
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