Correctomundo
Member
Getting wrecked is how you learn.Ask them questions on how to improve. If they're cool, they'll help.
Can't quit my job. =/
I'll live vicariously through Evo vids.
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The Fighting Game Noob Thread: From Scrub to Master
- Thread starter Cindi Mayweather
- Start date
Can't quit my job. =/
I'll live vicariously through Evo vids.
Ryu is always the starting character but if you want to get a bit more flashy I guess you could do Ken. But Ryu is definitely like the OP says jack of all trades more so than Ken (who is a more in your face type of character).
Cindi Mayweather
Member
You don't need to quit your job. The beauty of fighting games is that you can play them for one hour and still learn something valuable. If you can't play at locals, play online.
The mistake people make is that that losing repeatedly or dumping huge amounts of hours into the game will make you a better player.
Just playing the game for hundreds of hours doesn't mean a thing. It's all about practicality.
How about fighting someone 5 or 10 times. Then watching the replay to see what gives you trouble, and implementing that situation into training mode? Work on it for 20 minutes. Then fight them again. See how much you'll have improved: likely by quite a bit. On the other hand, some people think long sessions of nothing but losses will lead to growth, but hours long sessions versus 20 minutes in training mode?
These games don't require as much time as you think they do. They require being cognizant and hard work, but they don't require you to quit your day job.
Play Birdie. You'll learn quarter circles, half circles/command grabs, and you can cover your scrubbiness with lots of health and good damage output.
don't take this suggestion seriously. take it from me, this shit will get you rekt
Yeah, you may not be taking complete advantage of SF4 but if you have generally strong fighting game fundamentals, the learning curve for everything else in a new game will be a lot less intimidating.
Leafhopper
Banned
Good thread OP. Maybe my friends will read it and actually try to learn this time.
Melee fans...
OP, would you be a pal and add the greatest fighting game of all time to the list?
EDIT: Some Melee resources:
The documentary
SleepyK's Competitive Beginner and Intermediate Guide (including a bunch of other links)
Melee fans...
Just kidding even though I like Melee but I disagree a lot.
NoctisVsStar
Member
If anybody wants to spar let me know (East Coast US btw). I play USFIV on ps4 (PSN RedViperN7). I've only been really playing since May. I'd say I'm like maybe a notch or two above like absolute noob. So if you're around that level id love to practice with you. Right now I'm mostly playing Balrog since I want to learn charge characters and Juri because I think she's fun. Getting tired of shotos
Looking forward to playing SFV and being there at the beginning for a change. Also looking forward to Tekken 7 as a chill fighting game.
Ken B.O.Y.S.
ShinMaruku
Member
Tekken does.
Correctomundo
Member
I'm sorry, I thought I mentioned that I can't play online. Either my connection sucks (likely) or the netcode isn't any good. I've played a handful of SSF4AE online and it went smoothly, but within an hour it was back to a laggy, match dropping mess.
So unless someone wants to come to my place a couple mornings a week for an hour or two, or the area I live in decides that modern broadband doesn't mean barely above dialup speeds, I'm not a part of the FGC.
That's how I've played 4 since jump. It hurt my game a lot, but it wouldn't have been fun for me to start utilizing it. Did make it a lot less fun to play against people who had them down.
I didn't have much adjusting to do in SF5 so far at all.
Of course, I play just almost every fighter a little bit. That helps going from game to game.
dr.rocktopus
Banned
Oh man this thread. I need this thread. I'm such a fucking scrub.
I play Smash 4. I'm garbage at it at competitive play. I have a lot of bad habits from years and years of playing with the same friends who had no competitive inclinations. My footsies are terrible.
I've been trying to get more competitive experience so I've been going to Smash 4 weeklies a town over. I continually get clapped, but it's helped me narrow down, what I think from play (and from some of the players there), some of my issues.
I'm definitely not approaching all that safely (I use Yoshi). There are times where in my head I know I have to use this approach option (NAir) because it's fast to come out and has fast FAF, I know I can to it cause I lab it and do it in friendlies, and it just...doesn't come out. I know I can do it. My mind wants it. My fingers can. But something doesn't translate, and I do a FAir, don't space it right, eat shield, get grabbed.
Along those lines I don't vary enough. It's been pointed out to me I do the same patterns in terms of combos and follow ups, the same ways to try to make and opening. Always aggressive. I don't know why I feel I have to do this, be the initiator. I guess part of it could be that the main way to punish aggression in Smash 4, to read/reatch to the approach, shield and grab, isn't quite as effective for Yoshi given his slow grab. Again I have the knowledge of it, but my hands are that overcome by habit. I haven't figured out what to do otherwise. Or, again, if I figured it out but do it too much, it gets read.
I think, if I were to try to boil it down, I am not respecting my opponent. I am not appreciating the are a sentient being, and likely fairly smart at this game. I think I can do what I want, I can will them. I can do this with my friends. I can't do this with others. I am not fully thinking, analysing the match. I just think I can do what I want and win. It doesn't work like that, but it's such a hard habit to break for me. There have been moments where I can make it work, and pull together some close matches...and then I get mentally exhausted, and auto-pilot.
Has anyone else had experience with combating this? What sort of mental training have you done? Or is it actually physical (in muscle reaction)? I've read/watched some of the guides, like the FG Primer or Juicebox's video, but I don't know why in being armed with the knowledge I find it so excruciatingly hard to apply.
I could also be completely wrong. Without videos it's kinda tough to convey.
tl;dr how do I stop auto-pilot
I play Smash 4. I'm garbage at it at competitive play. I have a lot of bad habits from years and years of playing with the same friends who had no competitive inclinations. My footsies are terrible.
I've been trying to get more competitive experience so I've been going to Smash 4 weeklies a town over. I continually get clapped, but it's helped me narrow down, what I think from play (and from some of the players there), some of my issues.
I'm definitely not approaching all that safely (I use Yoshi). There are times where in my head I know I have to use this approach option (NAir) because it's fast to come out and has fast FAF, I know I can to it cause I lab it and do it in friendlies, and it just...doesn't come out. I know I can do it. My mind wants it. My fingers can. But something doesn't translate, and I do a FAir, don't space it right, eat shield, get grabbed.
Along those lines I don't vary enough. It's been pointed out to me I do the same patterns in terms of combos and follow ups, the same ways to try to make and opening. Always aggressive. I don't know why I feel I have to do this, be the initiator. I guess part of it could be that the main way to punish aggression in Smash 4, to read/reatch to the approach, shield and grab, isn't quite as effective for Yoshi given his slow grab. Again I have the knowledge of it, but my hands are that overcome by habit. I haven't figured out what to do otherwise. Or, again, if I figured it out but do it too much, it gets read.
I think, if I were to try to boil it down, I am not respecting my opponent. I am not appreciating the are a sentient being, and likely fairly smart at this game. I think I can do what I want, I can will them. I can do this with my friends. I can't do this with others. I am not fully thinking, analysing the match. I just think I can do what I want and win. It doesn't work like that, but it's such a hard habit to break for me. There have been moments where I can make it work, and pull together some close matches...and then I get mentally exhausted, and auto-pilot.
Has anyone else had experience with combating this? What sort of mental training have you done? Or is it actually physical (in muscle reaction)? I've read/watched some of the guides, like the FG Primer or Juicebox's video, but I don't know why in being armed with the knowledge I find it so excruciatingly hard to apply.
I could also be completely wrong. Without videos it's kinda tough to convey.
tl;dr how do I stop auto-pilot
maybe?
Ken B.O.Y.S.
If I do play shotos I play Evil Ryu now because he's crouching MK is too good.
NoctisVsStar
Member
If I do play shotos I play Evil Ryu now because he's crouching MK is too good.
Heh with that hadouken blockstring being safe ( ͡° ͜ ʖ ͡°)
Cindi Mayweather
Member
What kind of training are you doing?
A lot of people think that we should always be fighting, but when we're trying to learn the core fundamentals of a game, most of our time shouldn't be fighting but in training mode.
I say break away from fighting. If you do fight, use it to gather info on your own tendencies. Does Smash 4 have a feature that automatically saves replays like SFIV?
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Something I HIGHLY recommend new players is to NOT get super deep into the mechanics. I cant tell you how many scrubs Ive met who know all the technical terms better than I do, but will get wrecked by the most simple shit.
Dont worry about trying to learn stuff you have no business doing, dont worry about Ultras or Supers or any of that shit, you can beat anybody who isnt at the technical level through basic defense and 2/3 hit combos
Dont worry about trying to learn stuff you have no business doing, dont worry about Ultras or Supers or any of that shit, you can beat anybody who isnt at the technical level through basic defense and 2/3 hit combos
NoctisVsStar
Member
New players should practice moving around instead of combos it's such a simple but crucial aspect that propels you into a decent player. You can tell who's a new player just by Him jumping and moving around all awkwardly the whole match.
OmegaSmash
Member
I'm gonna use the hell out of this thread. I love the genre but I've been shit at it for far too long. I bought the new Blazblue for PS3, but I'm just gonna focus on Guilty Gear Xrd, SFV when it comes out, and now Gundam Full Boost because damn that's a fun game (still don't know what I'm doing, but I'm getting there)
Cindi Mayweather
Member
This.
It's easy to get overwhelmed. I'm only now just learning combos and how to Ultra punish or combo into Ultra's period.
Professor Renegade
Banned
Now this....This is the thread I've been waiting for. Love the fuck out of Skullgirls, but I have a bad habit of dropping in and out for a few months and having to relearn everything over again. The one thing I find most difficult though is remembering all the inputs and combos. Wouldn't mind having a mentor for Skullgirls if anyone's up for it.
When did you play AE and on what platform? If it was on Steam when the game got ported over to it from Games for Windows Live the lag was a matchmaking issue that affected everyone and has been fixed.
Enter the Dragon Punch
Banned
Ken B.O.Y.S.
ken is for men, manly men
Teknopathetic
Member
Losing sucks, but one of the biggest detriments to improving is getting frustrated and wanting to quit. Don't be so frustrated from losing online, or rather, channel that frustration into desire to win. I have at least a couple of friends who want to get better than they currently are, but would rather not lose than grind matches until they win.
Early on in SF4 I would just play like 20-50 matches in a row against people *much* better than me and lose probably 90-100% of those matches, but I'd rather play, lose, and figure out why I'm losing until I can win than just give up because I don't like losing.
In short, if you find yourself being the type of person to stop playing against someone because you're losing a lot, learn to enjoy winning more than you hate losing.
Early on in SF4 I would just play like 20-50 matches in a row against people *much* better than me and lose probably 90-100% of those matches, but I'd rather play, lose, and figure out why I'm losing until I can win than just give up because I don't like losing.
In short, if you find yourself being the type of person to stop playing against someone because you're losing a lot, learn to enjoy winning more than you hate losing.
racketpunch
Member
No mention of Mahvel? Shieeet
Cindi Mayweather
Member
I'm dedicating a post later on specifically to losing. It's the biggest hurdle for learning a game.
You want to encourage people to play fighting games
NipplesAndToes23
Member
I feel like I should post in here since I like fighting games, but I'm unsure of what to say since I didn't have trouble in general when I used to play.
Correctomundo
Member
360 when it was given away as GwG. So summer of last year. I have quite a lot of fighting games. One of my favorite genres. Been buying them since the first vanilla SF2 on the SNES. I'll almost always give the online a shot, but it never works.
Leafhopper
Banned
This is a good post.
CoyoteSpitfire
Member
Subbed. I might get some use out of this thread when SFV comes out. It might even be an interesting read until then. In fact, even made me consider redownloading USF4. But, I think I'll just stick to KI and Skullgirls in the meantime.
Astral/H3X
Member
Let's be scrubs together. Let's try and push each other, I'm in a similar place as you right now. Maybe then we can push out of Scrub hell.
Professor Beef
Banned
I blame myself, and my awesome abilities in SFIV against the other CAG guys
Professor Beef
Banned
If you want to learn how to block in Smash 4, then play against me ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
talk is cheap
talk is cheap
Losing always motivated me to play more and play better. The first FG I actually learned to play was Marvel 3 and I'm kind of surprised by myself that I didn't quit, but it wasn't until I learned how to play SF4 that losing really frustrated me. Its much more apperant in that game that you know why you're losing and mistakes you're making compared to Marvel 3. That fact alone frustrates me a lot more, but I still never really been discouraged from it or other fighting games altogether.
I've tried to finally become a competent fighting game player in recent years. I'm not sure I'd call myself that at this point, but I've definitely felt myself get better. There's a very clear line between "try to scrub a win" and "lose a lot but have your fundamentals in place". Going from the first to the second was a huge deal for me, and it's the point you need to get to so that you don't completely give up hope.
These were the things I had the most trouble learning at first, as someone who still know that "why can't I be better at these games" feeling all too well:
1: Block. Blocking seems like the easiest and most basic thing in games, but it isn't just holding back whenever you're not doing something else. I especially had trouble with always doing a crouch block, which constantly left me open to overheads and other such attacks. The problem is, if you're fighting against someone who knows what they're doing, you get nervous and start to panic really easily. That's one of the first things you need to get over. Getting you butt kicked—but doing so while you're trying to be more competent at blocking—isn't a thing to fear. It'll give you experience and education, both of which you need. Even if your offense sucks at first, work on your blocks.
2: Stop mashing buttons. I know—I did this for years. You're blocking, someone is going after you, and your brain is like "attack attack attack!" It's that panic thing again, and another thing where you really have to learn patience on. If you can be a bit smarter about your blocking, and hold back some in your throwing out attacks whenever you feel pressured, you'll be surprised at how quickly you'll feel like you're playing better and how you'll last longer in fights.
3: Special moves are part of your repertoire, not your repertoire. This one was really, really hard for me to learn. I thought I was supposed to be doing them constantly, and relying on them for most of my offense. There's so much you can do with simply punches and kicks that'll earn you wins, but most casual players don't use them because they aren't the "fancy stuff".
4: You don't have to be on the offensive all of the time. Relax. Try to read the back-and-forth better to know when you should be going in, and when you should be holding back.
5: Stop jumping in on your opponent at every opportunity you have.
6: Pick a character. When you play fighting games casually, there's this attitude of people picking a bunch of different characters, and not sticking with one main character, because that's "boring". I know where that feeling comes from, but it's the exact opposite. Find a character whose playstyle you like, and try them. If you aren't feeling them, it's okay to try someone else. When you find someone that you feel like you can gel with, stick with them, and start to learn their intricacies.
7: Most importantly—don't give up. I would get so mad at how bad I did, and so disheartened. I thought I'd never, ever have any skill at a lot of the fighting games out there. I still feel that way. It's so easy to think you're doing good, you're getting better, only to get your butt kicked in a match where you felt like you could do nothing. That's going to happen, over and over, and I'm sure it's happened to everyone. Stick with the game, keep trying. Try to learn what you're doing wrong. Fix one thing you do wrong at a time, don't think you can fix everything all at once. Calm down. You're not up on stage at EVO, so if you lose, it's okay.
Those are the major thing I've learned in looking at what I was doing wrong.
Oh, one other thing...
8: Don't be a Ken / Ryu / Akuma player. Everyone else hates those people.
These were the things I had the most trouble learning at first, as someone who still know that "why can't I be better at these games" feeling all too well:
1: Block. Blocking seems like the easiest and most basic thing in games, but it isn't just holding back whenever you're not doing something else. I especially had trouble with always doing a crouch block, which constantly left me open to overheads and other such attacks. The problem is, if you're fighting against someone who knows what they're doing, you get nervous and start to panic really easily. That's one of the first things you need to get over. Getting you butt kicked—but doing so while you're trying to be more competent at blocking—isn't a thing to fear. It'll give you experience and education, both of which you need. Even if your offense sucks at first, work on your blocks.
2: Stop mashing buttons. I know—I did this for years. You're blocking, someone is going after you, and your brain is like "attack attack attack!" It's that panic thing again, and another thing where you really have to learn patience on. If you can be a bit smarter about your blocking, and hold back some in your throwing out attacks whenever you feel pressured, you'll be surprised at how quickly you'll feel like you're playing better and how you'll last longer in fights.
3: Special moves are part of your repertoire, not your repertoire. This one was really, really hard for me to learn. I thought I was supposed to be doing them constantly, and relying on them for most of my offense. There's so much you can do with simply punches and kicks that'll earn you wins, but most casual players don't use them because they aren't the "fancy stuff".
4: You don't have to be on the offensive all of the time. Relax. Try to read the back-and-forth better to know when you should be going in, and when you should be holding back.
5: Stop jumping in on your opponent at every opportunity you have.
6: Pick a character. When you play fighting games casually, there's this attitude of people picking a bunch of different characters, and not sticking with one main character, because that's "boring". I know where that feeling comes from, but it's the exact opposite. Find a character whose playstyle you like, and try them. If you aren't feeling them, it's okay to try someone else. When you find someone that you feel like you can gel with, stick with them, and start to learn their intricacies.
7: Most importantly—don't give up. I would get so mad at how bad I did, and so disheartened. I thought I'd never, ever have any skill at a lot of the fighting games out there. I still feel that way. It's so easy to think you're doing good, you're getting better, only to get your butt kicked in a match where you felt like you could do nothing. That's going to happen, over and over, and I'm sure it's happened to everyone. Stick with the game, keep trying. Try to learn what you're doing wrong. Fix one thing you do wrong at a time, don't think you can fix everything all at once. Calm down. You're not up on stage at EVO, so if you lose, it's okay.
Those are the major thing I've learned in looking at what I was doing wrong.
Oh, one other thing...
8: Don't be a Ken / Ryu / Akuma player. Everyone else hates those people.
Enter the Dragon Punch
Banned
come at me son smh
JeTmAn81
Member
So then it makes sense that you'd mention the best one. Shame on you, OP.
RockTurtle
Member
I guess my biggest detriment is learning how to lose and learning from my losses.
i have been told to go to the lab and record my matches. but even though i see what i did wrong or what could have worked, i still end up making the same mistake the next day :C
i have been told to go to the lab and record my matches. but even though i see what i did wrong or what could have worked, i still end up making the same mistake the next day :C
Was already pondering on doing one myself considering the big influx of new fighting games. Props to you, nice thread!
A suggestion for the community part.
Don't forget tell people to mention which part of the world they are from.
US to EU can get laggy, so it would be a good idea to split into different parts like US/EU/Asia.
I really recommend beginners to learn fundamentals, which are like the ABC of fighting games. Knowing the basics like frame data, cancels and hit/hurtboxes builds a necessary base to advance and enables you to apply critical thinking.
Do not focus on "characters" or game specific gimmicks like FADC in SFIV. Learn the basics and understand the implications of each system mechanics from ground up.
Learning the fundamentals might take a bit, but if you have them transitioning to other fighting games becomes a lot more smoother.
Some advice for mentality:
When you are in a match there is no "I'll try". It's either you do it or you don't. Having confidence is paramount and can affect your performance severely. From slower reactions to dropping important combos.
You can give respect, but not fear. Be always ready to challenge your opponent.
Fundamentals will always work. But you will have to readjust them across different games.
For example the idea of hit confirms are pretty much the same across the 2D games. Footsies in SF are different from GG or MKX due to different movement options, but the base idea still applies.
This is also a big problem. Losing is necessary to learn, but you also need the tools to learn from them. If you have the tools you also have a different perspective.
Point in case:
A suggestion for the community part.
Don't forget tell people to mention which part of the world they are from.
US to EU can get laggy, so it would be a good idea to split into different parts like US/EU/Asia.
I really recommend beginners to learn fundamentals, which are like the ABC of fighting games. Knowing the basics like frame data, cancels and hit/hurtboxes builds a necessary base to advance and enables you to apply critical thinking.
Do not focus on "characters" or game specific gimmicks like FADC in SFIV. Learn the basics and understand the implications of each system mechanics from ground up.
Learning the fundamentals might take a bit, but if you have them transitioning to other fighting games becomes a lot more smoother.
Some advice for mentality:
When you are in a match there is no "I'll try". It's either you do it or you don't. Having confidence is paramount and can affect your performance severely. From slower reactions to dropping important combos.
You can give respect, but not fear. Be always ready to challenge your opponent.
Fundamentals will always work. But you will have to readjust them across different games.
For example the idea of hit confirms are pretty much the same across the 2D games. Footsies in SF are different from GG or MKX due to different movement options, but the base idea still applies.
This is also a big problem. Losing is necessary to learn, but you also need the tools to learn from them. If you have the tools you also have a different perspective.
Point in case:
Professor Beef
Banned
Professor Beef
Banned
ShinMaruku
Member
I see the situation as fuck this shit.
But remember people mindset is very important and finding the right people to play with who you can learn from. Remember some of the best players can be the worst to teach people. Also have to find a good group to play with. All these moving parts can conspire to fuck you, so you have to know where to go around those things.
But remember people mindset is very important and finding the right people to play with who you can learn from. Remember some of the best players can be the worst to teach people. Also have to find a good group to play with. All these moving parts can conspire to fuck you, so you have to know where to go around those things.
I've been playing fighting games for decades and I'm still a scrub. Now I don't even have time to get good a them like I used to.
It's cool that people here can play for 10 minutes and learn something, but my mind makes it so it takes me days to get coherent in a new fighting game.
It's cool that people here can play for 10 minutes and learn something, but my mind makes it so it takes me days to get coherent in a new fighting game.