No worries, Kairi can just hug the darkness away. There's no real rules about what is or isn't possible regarding darkness, light, nobodies, heartless etc. Even when rules are established about them, they're immediately broken a la "Nobodies aren't real people" that was trashed.
Four games and seven years later is hardly immediately broken. And they didn't break the rules, we just didn't know what they were. For example, Sora was turned into a Lingering Sentiment in KH1; we just didn't know that was a thing until KH2 and it wasn't clarifed until BBS.
I agree with OP, although I think BBS has the best battle system so far (minus the tedious command melding). KH2 was fun and all but way too easy even on the highest difficulty (press triangle to win). KH2FM seems to fix this problem but that hasn't had an official US release yet.
The original had a better story but I feel like KH2 and BBS had better battle systems. Honestly the spin-offs have just made the KH universe so convoluted and spanning different consoles just seems dumb as fuck in retrospect
Yes thank you. Hated the second one because of it's flashy but easy gameplay (Hit triangle and win button)...and the story just made things worse. BbS seems good but Terra is such a huge idiot, it became too much of a distraction for me. I figure to give it another shot later this year but for me, the first one hit all the right spots for me. Except that camera, me and that camera had wars with each other.
Oh and I much prefer the soundtrack of the PS2 one to the HD remake.
Four games and seven years later is hardly immediately broken. And they didn't break the rules, we just didn't know what they were. For example, Sora was turned into a Lingering Sentiment in KH1; we just didn't know that was a thing until KH2 and it wasn't clarifed until BBS.
Not salty, just confused. I thought the fact that Nobodies have no hearts was retconned as early as Days. It never really made sense to me, they keep saying "we have no hearts or emotions" yet Axel, Roxas and Xion are friends, worry about each other's well being when one or the other is bed ridden, and obviously care about each other. For Roxas and Xion there could be the excuse that it's Sora's feelings, but then what motivates Axel to forgo the salvation of Kingdom Hearts, if not love for his best friend? It may not be outright stated in DAYS, but their actions would make no sense to me otherwise.
The idea is that Nobodies, through trying to find a sense of identity, will wind up actually reconstructing their sense of self through the connections they make to other people. This causes them to basically have hearts. Xehanort's plan was to make a bunch of Nobodies who were totally loyal to him first and foremost, which would cause them all to basically assimilate his heart and become his other selves.
Not convoluted at all. In fact, it gives incredible context to the significance of Nobodies in general.
I agree with OP, although I think BBS has the best battle system so far (minus the tedious command melding). KH2 was fun and all but way too easy even on the highest difficulty (press triangle to win). KH2FM seems to fix this problem but that hasn't had an official US release yet.
In short this is my response to the thread, although I thought Command Melding was fun. Birth By Sleep's combat outclasses the original but I feel the original had better tone, world design, narrative premise, and a much better incorporation of Disney elements - enough to offset clunky camera control and such.
Will have to see how KHIIFM affects my stance. It's definitely more fluid than the original but challenge was nonexistent, even on Proud. That significantly diminished my enjoyment of it.
Not salty, just confused. I thought the fact that Nobodies have no hearts was retconned as early as Days. It never really made sense to me, they keep saying "we have no hearts or emotions" yet Axel, Roxas and Xion are friends, worry about each other's well being when one or the other is bed ridden, and obviously care about each other. For Roxas and Xion there could be the excuse that it's Sora's feelings, but then what motivates Axel to forgo the salvation of Kingdom Hearts, if not love for his best friend? It may not be outright stated in DAYS, but their actions would make no sense to me otherwise.
That was an implication of all of two nobodies, only one of which actually grew a heart. Hardly enough to presume that every single nobody had the potential to grow a heart. Point stands.
In short this is my response to the thread, although I thought Command Melding was fun. Birth By Sleep's combat outclasses the original but I feel the original had better tone, world design, narrative premise, and a much better incorporation of Disney elements - enough to offset clunky camera control and such.
Will have to see how KHIIFM affects my stance. It's definitely more fluid than the original but challenge was nonexistent, even on Proud. That significantly diminished my enjoyment of it.
That was an implication of all of two nobodies, only one of which actually grew a heart. Hardly enough to presume that every single nobody had the potential to grow a heart. Point stands.
You can go to a place where another you exists if you cast away yourself first.
I only played the beginning of the first one when I was a kid, since I couldn't get past Deep Jungle for some reason. Then I did beat Kingdom Hearts II since that was a much easier game, and I played most of every spinoff.
While the games using the Command Deck system are the best gameplay-wise (Birth by Sleep and Dream Drop Distance especially), when I finally went back and played through the entire first game I was amazed by how simple the story and system were in it. I was surprised by how unconfusing the story was after playing through the other games.
I'm still of course super excited for Kingdom Hearts III but the original is special for a reason. The other games are still great but just don't compare to the original.
So many options of playing and so many customizable options. The three characters played different and you could customize even further to play how'd you want to (and to get desired command styles of course).
But KH1 sure wins in the story department and pacing compared to other KH games tho.
KH1 is a good first game, and sets up a base for the story well, but I wouldn't call it the best in the series.
KH2, BBS, and 3D beat it in gameplay, and as a fan of the story I found them to be more involving in that aspect too. KH1 certainly has its own charm, and I enjoy the game a lot, but I have to disagree.
Agreed. KH1 is a great game but I believe the sequels are better. The tone is quite different, and that's what sets it apart. It's the beginning of the adventure, and it's also brighter, which definitely goes a long way to introducing subsequent developments. Overall I prefer the darker tone, which also contrasts nicely with the Disney Worlds. There's always a shadow.
The whole Hollow Bastion sequence in the first game is the pinnacle of the series for me. Really feels like an adventure, and there are some challenging segments in that area too, not to mention secrets and puzzles a' plenty.
I always felt special about Hollow Bastion and the End of the World. It's the area I'm most looking forward to playing again in the remix. Back then I'd say I almost felt intimidated by the castle. It's near the end where the tone starts becoming darker and I love the antithesis.
A common phenomenon on the internet and RL. That shit happens with everything. While it may be excessive to claim this for the people in GAF and in this thread, I firmly believe it holds true for the majority of places.
To me, KH2 is miles above KH1. I still love KH1, especially FM but KH2 did everything way better. I also enjoyed the worlds a lot more and they streamlined Atlantica which was by far my most hated world in the original.
And to echo earlier sentiments, it's unfair to call the portable games spin-offs just because they don't have numbers. Most of them are just as necessary to the story as the 2 numbered games.
That was an implication of all of two nobodies, only one of which actually grew a heart. Hardly enough to presume that every single nobody had the potential to grow a heart. Point stands.
Perhaps, but the nobody/no heart thing has always been hard to buy for me. Marluxia is another good example, in CoM he wishes to overthrow the Organisation because of greed no? or perhaps lust for power? An emotionless vessel would have no cause to interrupt their plans like that if not for selfish reasons. This isn't mentioning all the times nobodies are seen laughing, paralyzed with fear, angry. That was at least somewhat explained as they're faking it I suppose, but why bother?
That was just one example though, much about the light/darkness is left terribly vague. So much so that I feel it takes away from the story. Twists and turns are exciting in a story because they shock us and make us review prior events to search for the clues of that revelation. In Kingdom Hearts, the power of light and dark seem to have the power to do whatever they choose, so nothing is really a shock anymore. Nothing feels like it has any lasting consequences, every character is seemingly immortal. They never die, but "get trapped in Darkness" or "lose their heart" or reside in someone else's heart somehow. It gets to the point where I just roll my eyes and give a "yeah sure, ok whatever" when something bad happens. The power of Deus Ex machina "Light" conquers all.
And to echo earlier sentiments, it's unfair to call the portable games spin-offs just because they don't have numbers. Most of them are just as necessary to the story as the 2 numbered games.
It was a semantics thing more than anything, I was the guy back when DDD was announced that kept pointing out to all intents and purposes it basically was KH3.
I love it to death, but it's probably one of my least favorites (I did like it better than CoM and the VCAST one, which I unfortunately did own). Re:coded has it beat from a "fun" perspective, while I preferred BBS's story. The Disney interactions were best in the original though, and I really hope they can recapture that for III.
Firstly, I've enjoyed nearly every Kingdom Hearts game I've played. Even the spin-offs
TL;DR: While the gameplay is clunky, it deals with the Disney IPs, environments, and the overall story and atmosphere in a far better way.
OP I could not agree with you more. I simply loved how involved the Disney villas were in the story. I. KH2 and beyond I felt that Nomura lost that side of the game and that's when the story started to become convoluted for me. It's one of my favorite game ever tbh
Perhaps, but the nobody/no heart thing has always been hard to buy for me. Marluxia is another good example, in CoM he wishes to overthrow the Organisation because of greed no? or perhaps lust for power? An emotionless vessel would have no cause to interrupt their plans like that if not for selfish reasons. This isn't mentioning all the times nobodies are seen laughing, paralyzed with fear, angry. That was at least somewhat explained as they're faking it I suppose, but why bother?
I think it is believable that they are acting out of memory, which compels them to behave that way even if they genuinely can't.
This can be taken with a psychological view too, have you ever found yourself pretending to enjoy a video game? Something you knew you liked, but now you don't and can't like it but still pretend to? I think most of us have had this happen at least once over the years. Of course, one can argue that behind there are other emotions at work, but we can spin that with the compelling force of the memories and their make-up as nobodies. Remembering of desire, greed, laughter, joy and being compelled to try and express them but ultimately perceiving only a void. Remembrance and Memory are recurring themes in Kingdom Hearts after all.
This saga still occupies a special place in my heart. I've only played KH I and II but as far as I can say some aspects of the second game disappointed me so much (extremely low difficulty above all, and still kinda useless summons).
On the other hand I wholeheartedly agree about the huge improvements gameplay wise, with a vastly superior and more enjoyable combat system.I even found the development of the plot interesting enough, even if sometimes it really gets too convulted, with some "forced" plot twists. Let's hope KH III will put an acceptable end to the Xehanort saga!
Looking forward to playing 2.5 HD so to enjoy once again KH II and play for the very first time BbS.
PS: my first post here on Gaf! Hello everyone!!!
PPS: I'm not native English speaker so please, be kind if I make some mistakes!!!
1>Days>DDD>BBS>Re:Coded's actual worlds>2>Re:Coded's gimmicky crap.
Not played CoM yet but it looks fun.
Is KH2FM's critical mode actually difficult, because all the games I've played on the hardest difficulties up to now were easy to mildly challenging. On Aqua's story I struggled until I completed the 3rd Princess world, then breezed through until the second to last boss, but then breezed through the last fight.
Those Unversed in Radiant Garden can go to hell though.
I never liked the first game mainly because I played it for my cousin since they broke their arm, and wanted to see more of the story. The second I did like although, it was a hell of a lot more fun to play.
One is still my favourite played it so many times over the years. They integrated Disney so well into the game, as well as the FF characters, and there was a range of Disney characters from different movies in the game. I still enjoyed 2 and to a lesser extent Dream Drop but I lost interest once the boring original characters took over and the Disney characters became less important. Also I hated how most of the games went to the same Disney worlds all the time and not new ones.
I always felt special about Hollow Bastion and the End of the World. It's the area I'm most looking forward to playing again in the remix. Back then I'd say I almost felt intimidated by the castle. It's near the end where the tone starts becoming darker and I love the antithesis.
you lose your weapon and magic and your companions get taken away. The stuff you took for granted all this time is taken from you and you have to earn them back.
Perhaps, but the nobody/no heart thing has always been hard to buy for me. Marluxia is another good example, in CoM he wishes to overthrow the Organisation because of greed no? or perhaps lust for power? An emotionless vessel would have no cause to interrupt their plans like that if not for selfish reasons. This isn't mentioning all the times nobodies are seen laughing, paralyzed with fear, angry. That was at least somewhat explained as they're faking it I suppose, but why bother?
Marluxia disagreed with getting their hearts back. Larxene in particular had bad memories of when she had a heart and she didn't want to have that happen again.
That was just one example though, much about the light/darkness is left terribly vague. So much so that I feel it takes away from the story. Twists and turns are exciting in a story because they shock us and make us review prior events to search for the clues of that revelation. In Kingdom Hearts, the power of light and dark seem to have the power to do whatever they choose, so nothing is really a shock anymore. Nothing feels like it has any lasting consequences, every character is seemingly immortal. They never die, but "get trapped in Darkness" or "lose their heart" or reside in someone else's heart somehow. It gets to the point where I just roll my eyes and give a "yeah sure, ok whatever" when something bad happens. The power of Deus Ex machina "Light" conquers all.
I think if I ever replay KH2 I'm going to try never turning on any of the weapon abilities on the off chance that it might make positioning marginally important again.
you lose your weapon and magic and your companions get taken away. The stuff you took for granted all this time is taken from you and you have to earn them back.
I really liked how the Disney villains united to rule over everything in the first game. They've mostly been isolated threats ever since then. Except Maleficient, but she's second rate now. And Pete's a joke.
Gameplay-wise though, the first KH has been surpassed by a country mile already.
Firstly, I've enjoyed nearly every Kingdom Hearts game I've played. Even the spin-offs aren't bad, especially BBS and 3D. However, upon replaying the first game in glorious HD on the PS3 this weekend, I'm reminded of how brilliant and unique the first title was, and how perhaps the series has lost that in the years since. And no, not just because the sequels take longer than time itself to be released.
Obviously a big draw is the Disney characters. I don't know about the rest of you, but this was honestly what drew me to the series in the first place. I've never been a huge JRPG fan, but I've loved Disney flicks since I was a child, and the prospect of kicking ass with Tarzan and Goofy appealed to me. As an 11 year old, I did like the original story too. It was fairly simple at that time, and directly involved the Disney characters; Malificent kidnapping all the Disney Princesses. Cool.
But obviously, the plot and the game in general got a lot more complicated and diverted from Disney as time went on. It suffered "Dragonball Z" fatigue where honestly I can't think that anybody would actually be involved in it or enjoy it. What's a narrative twist or turn where everybody is a
clone/copy/guy who looks like that guy because he has the same heart maybe
. As I say, I still loved the subsequent titles, but there was a real elegant simplicity in KH1 that hasn't been totally replicated for me yet. Hopefully KH3 can pick up the slack when it gets released in 2021.
TL;DR: While the gameplay is clunky, it deals with the Disney IPs, environments, and the overall story and atmosphere in a far better way.
