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[speculawyer]

Looks like a savings of about 5 cents per kilowatt-hour. If the current ones have a street price of $700,000 it'll take 14,000,000 Kilowatt-hours to break even. Hopefully he can get the price down quickly.

So for now, it only seems that massive electricity users such as companies that run massive server farms (google & ebay) really can benefit.

Doesn't aluminum manufacturing also require massive amounts of electricity? *Looks up* . . . yes it does. I suspect they may be among the next customers.

 

[speculawyer]

While it might be more efficient, the issue is the cost and the size of the batteries that you would need not to mention the eventual (toxic) waste that is generated once the batteries have been used up to their serviceable lifetime (no longer holds enough charge).l

Off-topic but . . . Many modern Lithium-Ion batteries (such as lithium-iron-phosphate) are NOT toxic. People tend to just assume they are toxic since most previous batteries have been toxic (Lead-Acid, Ni-Cad, NiMH, etc.) .

This is a canard used by people trying to keep lead-acid (and the new lead-carbon) batteries alive . . . they said lead-acid batteries are 99% recycled! There is no recycling infrastructure for the new Lithium-Ion batteries. Uh . . . well, they don't NEED to be recycled since they are not toxic. However, a recycling infrastructure will be build once there are enough batteries out there to make it worthwhile.

 

[ZealousD]

It's time.

Seriously. Fusion power is the HOLY GRAIL of energy. If we can find a way to create cheap fusion power, all of our energy troubles die that day. I seriously don't understand why more focus isn't on fusion power.


BTW, what's bio-gas? Methane? Are we gonna power our homes with our farts? :lol

 

[Javaman]

Bloom executives said the energy server, which can be installed in a matter of hours, operates at an efficiency of 50 to 55 percent and can reduce greenhouse gas emissions 50 to 100 percent depending on the type of fuel used.

Mr. Sridhar said the Bloom Energy Server has been generating electricity at a cost of 8 to 10 cents a kilowatt-hour.

In California, where Bloom has installed 30 fuel-cell systems, commercial electricity rates averaged about 14 cents a kilowatt-hour in October 2009, according to the latest figures from the United States Department of Energy. Elsewhere, commercial rates averaged 7 to 24 cents a kilowatt-hour.

Here's a map of the average electric prices in the USA

Here's the average natural gas prices...(Commercial prices. Residential is 2-5 cents more, Industrial 2-5 cents less)
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/ng/ng_pri_sum_a_EPG0_PCS_DMcf_a.htm

With this info we can get an idea where something like this would pay off and where it would be more expensive than regular electricity. We know CA has a difference of 5c so we can ball park the savings in other areas. It would be more accurate having the formula for gas to electric conversion but this a quick and dirty way to do it.

IE.
CA gas = 11.72 Electricity = 12. Estimated savings around 5cents per kWh
AK gas = 7.91 Electricity = 11.98. Massive savings with fuel cells
HI gas = 39.01 Electricity = 16.73 Very bad idea for fuel cells

Edit:I don't know if I did this right, but I think their claim is roughly 767cu feet of natural gas per kWh.

 

[Shanadeus]

Seriously. Fusion power is the HOLY GRAIL of energy. If we can find a way to create cheap fusion power, all of our energy troubles die that day. I seriously don't understand why more focus isn't on fusion power.


BTW, what's bio-gas? Methane? Are we gonna power our homes with our farts? :lol

We'll hook up a cow to the generator, and get free milk as well as energy.

 

[Averon]

Seriously. Fusion power is the HOLY GRAIL of energy. If we can find a way to create cheap fusion power, all of our energy troubles die that day. I seriously don't understand why more focus isn't on fusion power.


BTW, what's bio-gas? Methane? Are we gonna power our homes with our farts? :lol

You'd be surprised at the number of private companies and government entities working on fusion right now. However, fusion has a lot of technical hurdles to overcome before it can be a viable energy technology. Also, there's still great progress that can be made with nuclear fission, such as thorium based reactors. If thorium reactors are only half as good as I read them to potentially be, it'll be a huge improvement over current nuclear power.

 

[Evlar]

Heat of combustion for natural gas: approx. 1028 Btu / cu. ft. (assumed output of maximally efficient power plant)
1 Btu = 0.293 watt-hour

Maximum output for 1000 cu. ft. Natural Gas = 1000 cu. ft. * (1028 Btu / cu. ft.) * 0.293 watt-hour

= 301.2 kWh per 1000 cu. ft.​

So... to find the cost of producing electricity:

Cost per kWh = (Cost of Natural Gas per 1000 cu. ft.) / (301.2 * Eff.), where "Eff." is the cost efficiency per unit fuel of the power plant.​

For instance, if the cost efficiency of these generators is 40% and we wish to analyze the cost of gas in the state of Florida in 2009:

Cost per kWh = $14.63 / (301.2 * 0.4) = $0.1214 per kWh​

The average commercial price of electricity in Florida, from the map above, is $0.0855 per kWh. Thus, these generators at 40% efficiency would not currently be cost effective in the Florida market.

 

[mckmas8808]

All of this is from the Press Conference held today.

9:05AM Look at computers. Telephones. As they became portable and affordable, the were more adopted.

9:06AM "For energy to be distributed, it had to be clean." Its mission: To make clean reliable energy affordable for everyone in the world.


9:12AM Cost, flexibility, reversibliity, and electrical performance. Ladies and gentleman, our table of contents for the next few.

9:13AM Cost. It's cheap. Fuel flexibility. "We can use a variety of materials... this fuel cell can take any of those fuels, and because of the unique chemistry, use that to produce electricity without the need for chemical plants that are complex that need to process the fuel. The fuel cell does all that for us. That's the uniqueness."


9:14AM "Depending on what location [the customer] use the product, they can use the local fuel. That's a big deal. Secondly, if you have the choice of multiple fuels you can switch at will, you can arbitrage, you can get the cheapest fuel going into your box and get the best economics out of the box. That's how it's useful." Can we use other powder to power fuel cells? Is that too recursive?


9:15AM We're looking at a Fuel + Air <-> Electricity equilibrium equation. This fuel cell can go both ways in this equation.

 

[Javaman]

Maximum output for 1000 cu. ft. Natural Gas = 1000 cu. ft. * (1028 Btu / cu. ft.) * 0.293 watt-hour

= 301.2 kWh per 1000 cu. ft.​

I think there's something breaking down in your math.
301 kWh potential (at 100% effic) for 12 cents?

I ended up with 767 cu feet per kWh based on their quote...

Mr. Sridhar said the Bloom Energy Server has been generating electricity at a cost of 8 to 10 cents a kilowatt-hour.

Maybe the quote is full of shit or they have a huge difference in price instead of the state average for commercial. I'd really love to see how many cu feet they are using. Surely someone has the data and eventually it'll come out.

 

[mckmas8808]

9:16AM Home of the future: a solar panel and a bloom box can power your car and keep your house. "Don't start signing up for orders yet, this is a product of the future." A decade or whereabouts, he estimates -- hey, we've pre-ordered farther ahead than that.

9:17AM Compared to the US national grid, it's about twice as efficient. "For the same amount of electricity you consume, you need half" than usual.

9:17AM 24/7, 365. "This is not when the sun shines, this is not when the wind blows... that's how this little piece of sand is different than what's been done before."

9:20AM He's now holding a stack -- enough to power an US household year-round. A few more and it'd apparently power a Starbucks. "We'd prefer you call it a Bloom energy server," he said, referencing the parking space-sized masses.
9:20AM Here comes the analogy! "Like servers, when you need more, you add as clusters." Buy as you grow model.

######

So it's 55% efficent. So we can stop using the 40% number now!

 

[zon]

This man will be so incredibly rich in 20 years..

 

[Vanillalite]

So it's 55% efficent. So we can stop using the 40% number now!

Yeah if that's true that's a big damn difference from the 40%. Hell that 15% is a massive difference in this context.

 

[hteng]

we will run out of oxygen if everyone uses this

 

[mckmas8808]

9:26AM He's driving home the economic gain, and for good reason. Additionally, carbon offset is equivalent to planting a million new trees. Customers! FedEx, Walmart, Staples, Google, Coca Cola, Bank of America, Cox, and of course, eBay.