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The Future of Backwards Compatibility
- Thread starter serversurfer
- Start date
Ryouji Gunblade
Member
Nintendo's continued existence gives me hope.
KingJ2002
Member
exactly... it's only a bullet point.. not a system mover.
Virtual Store Emulations, Streaming Services & Remasters are the future.
Manmademan
Member
I think that WAS true when Emulation was just a disc based thing, but as digital distribution ramps up there's going to be more of an expectation that digitally purchased PS4 games are not hopelessly locked to legacy hardware.
it's understandable that digital PS3 software (including PSN titles!) doesn't work on PS4, but if they stick with X86 from now on that's no longer going to fly.
I think most consumers of video games only play newer games, almost all of my friends only play games released in the last 2-3 years, and they have done that for the last decade, the sad fact is people who play older games, or revisit older games, or just like going back and playing older games they might not have known about at the time, are a minority
I would have thought it would be theoretically more feasible, although with a chunk of work going into it if the architectures of future hardware are wildly different.
However, Remasters have been such a success lately, that I wouldn't be surprised if they evolve into their own subset of games, with there own area in a store dedicated to it. I'd be curious to see how this goes in the future. I have a feeling it will also be dependant on what works out as the best model for cloud solutions like PS Now. If that seems to thrive on older games, that may be the way it stays for example
However, Remasters have been such a success lately, that I wouldn't be surprised if they evolve into their own subset of games, with there own area in a store dedicated to it. I'd be curious to see how this goes in the future. I have a feeling it will also be dependant on what works out as the best model for cloud solutions like PS Now. If that seems to thrive on older games, that may be the way it stays for example
Leafhopper
Banned
Expect to buy your games again or stream them.
SystemUser
Member
The remasters have some cost and I don't think the remasters are going to be the tops sellers for the year.
Lack of backwards compatibility made it easier for people to switch from X360 to PS4 and this is especially true when you look at North American numbers. Companies benefits greatly from keeping consumers on in their ecosystem. I bet that Microsoft would trade all of MCC sales for being able to have kept their North American market share.
This generation both sides knew that it would not be feasible so neither attempted it. Nintendo has backwards compat, but the Wii U continued to use PowerPC CPU and Ati GPU so backwards compat works. I could easily see the Xbox X(10) and the PS5 having backwards compat if they stick with x86 and Ati.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Companies are making a mint off "remastering" popular games. Sony has launched a game streaming service that lets you play games from old consoles.
Even if common architecture and use of APIs makes the implementation of BC easy, we probably won't see it for business reasons. They can and will extract as much value out of the consumers as is feasible for them.
Even if common architecture and use of APIs makes the implementation of BC easy, we probably won't see it for business reasons. They can and will extract as much value out of the consumers as is feasible for them.
CosmicQueso
Member
Your only bet for a console experience with that kind of backward compatibility is a STEAM OS or Big Picture Mode device.
It just will never, ever, happen in the Console environment.
It just will never, ever, happen in the Console environment.
EnergizerFellow
Member
PC and mobile gamers would like to have a word with you...
Steam or any of the other digital distribution stores might not be around forever, sure they're doing well now, but if you think there is a 100% chance of those servers still being up in 20 years time, you're wrong
No one would have expected Atari to fall back in 1980, and no one would have thought this would happen to Sega back in 1992, a lot can happen in a decade
MrCunningham
Member
Their next console is rumored to be moving away from PPC to x86, so it may lose the current legacy support that the Wii-U and Wii have. Though I have my doubts that they will be moving away from ARM architecture for their next handheld system, so backwards compatibility with 3DS games may still be in the bag.
Ok yeah but times (and pathways to montization) have changed. Devs actually make money on older titles now with digital distribution. Why stop selling games it costs nothing to stock and continue to sell? I think Xbox was the only console to shut down servers so far, am I right?
I agree with you, my point was more in line of PC gaming is by no means perfect, even if it has a lot of things going for it
Those saying PC gaming is backwards compatible and always will be might not have it that easy. We've already seen GTA:SA on Steam get a patch that removes songs/content, and when you only own a license like with steam, that is always a possibility
Plus if Steam does ever go under or shut down its servers or switch to steaming only or something like that, then you'll lose all your games and have to re-buy them again on other services
Plus older games will lose their appeal, FF7 sells a lot on PSN, but I'm guessing mostly to people in their late 20s and 30s who loved it as a kid, and then to a handful of younger gaming enthusiasts going back to play the classics, but in 20 or 30 years time, I doubt whoever ends up owning that games rights will still be making much money from it, so if it ends up not being kept on Steam or another service, it might become a lot harder to find and play
Seeing Sound
Member
Backwards compatibility was a huge reason I got a PS2 as soon as I could. Only had a N64 so missing out on all those PS1 titles and seeing GT3 graphics I knew I had to get a PS2 as my next console.
CosmicQueso
Member
Which do you think would go away first given their financial situations and corporate direction regarding the games space? Microsoft, Sony or Valve?
Green Card
Member
I miss BC. The only time I have bought a console at launch has been because it has had BC. I guess only Nintendo will have that privilege from now on.
How are those OG Xbox servers going or Sony's SOCOM servers? It's not like consoles have this great track record of keeping servers alive long term. Which will be disabled first do you think. Steam? Or Xbox 360 game support?
My point was that you have a MUCH greater chance of seeing long term support on the PC platform, including backward compatibility.
ShooterMcGavin
Member
But will it do 4D like the PS3?
I was thinking the exact same thing today.
Mobile games sort of already do this. There are mobile games that run with different settings if you play them on an iPhone or different versions of the iPad. Developers commonly optimize older games for newer hardware by at the very least adjusting the display resolution and UI. Another smaller example are Nintendo's handheld games that sometimes run with different features when you play them on new hardware, Majora's Mask 3D being the latest examples.
If Sony and/or Microsoft do maintain the same architecture over the next hardware cycle, it's definitely possible. At the very least BC would be a lot easier for them to do. I think a lot of posters here who are cynical about how corporations think forget about the cost end of things. Sure, game companies might do the profitable thing when the option that's better for consumers is too costly (like BC for the current consoles), but I'm not sure that behavior would be exactly the same if console manufacturers decided to stick with the same architecture to the point where BC is no significant addition to cost or effort. For starters, developers could keep selling legacy digital content. As the OP describes, they could theoretically upgrade it even.
I imagine the "runs on PS4 and up" thing could be done for cross-generation games. The production of cross-gen games would be pretty similar, except the different generations run on the same architecture and they'd be printing fewer discs. It would also promote the idea of consoles being entire software ecosystems instead of single pieces of hardware with a fixed lifespan. We don't actually know if that's what Sony and Microsoft want to do, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is.
This is kind of the answer. The only hope BC of any type has is in PC emulation at this point. This whole thing is going to be more of a problem as we move more towards digitial releases.
Doing this to the point of foregoing BC seems to be a treatment of media that's almost exclusive to console games. In other media it's recognized that you have one medium, and devices just run that medium. Operating systems are expected to run software because people keep using that software.
Publishers expect console games to be dropped after two years and entire ecosystems of console games to be dropped every five years. It's an almost toy-like mentality that's a stark contrast with other software and entertainment.
a Master Ninja
Member
Seems crazy to break compatibility and have to throw out their HBOgo/Netflix/Amazon/whatever apps all over again. It's ridiculous that the PS4 and Xbox One are still lacking dozens of useful apps their predecessors had.
I meant on consoles.
The next-gen console could very easily use ARM architecture or even be cloud-based. When it comes down to it BC is the first thing to go when designing new hardware.
PC is an open platform, in an unlikely situation like that you can circumvent copy-right restrictions. I'm sure peoples moral qualms about doing that won't be an issue at that point, but like I said it's highly unlikely it'll happen, unless it's on a platform that has planned obsolescence.
PC is an open platform, in an unlikely situation like that you can circumvent copy-right restrictions. I'm sure peoples moral qualms about doing that won't be an issue at that point, but like I said it's highly unlikely it'll happen, unless it's on a platform that has planned obsolescence.
Steam servers are just content, not download.
SOCOM game servers going down are like game servers on the PC side going down (which happens all the time).
Remember when a bunch of Gamespy servers were taken offline?
Gamespy went down but service like GameRanger picked up the slack.
Backwards compatabity is what you sacrifice for "coding to the metal" the abstraction layer is too thin to really allow compiled code to work on other platforms so emulation is the only option. And the ps4 doesn't have the power to emulate the ps3 and may even struggle to emulate the ps2 due to its slow CPU.
Ok sure, but what does any of that have to do with the superiority of backward compatibility support on the PC platform compared to consoles?
This is another insane thing too -- how PlayStation and Xbox console OSs have essentially had to start from zero feature-wise. If they keep the same architecture going forward, then you'd think Sony and Microsoft would just maintain "PlayStation OS" and whatever Microsoft brands the Xbox implementation of Windows.
Shit, they could theoretically advertise them as "general entertainment operating systems" or something like that. It would make a lot of sense for Sony to just have devices that run one ecosystem of PlayStation software that would include "games and entertainment," but Microsoft has to reconcile such a thing's usability in the face of Windows. Intel just introduced a $150 USB stick that runs desktop Windows. Microsoft's gonna have to reconcile that through the Windows Store.
Mr_Antimatter
Member
Remasters are just late ports, honestly. The HD collectiosn exist because the lack of BC though.
Last gen ran entirely too long, and that effected the design of a lot of late gen games. I can't blame a company for double dipping when what we get is a superior version, and probably a bit closer to their original design vision.
Future BC will depend on future hardware choices. If sony sticks with APU's, and just gives us whatever the latest tech for that is in five years, with similar, but upgraded tools and apis, I don't see why BC wouldn't happen.
Last gen ran entirely too long, and that effected the design of a lot of late gen games. I can't blame a company for double dipping when what we get is a superior version, and probably a bit closer to their original design vision.
Future BC will depend on future hardware choices. If sony sticks with APU's, and just gives us whatever the latest tech for that is in five years, with similar, but upgraded tools and apis, I don't see why BC wouldn't happen.
Suzushiiro
Banned
At the same time, BC could speed up the adoption of future consoles. They could easily replace full-on remasters with paid DLC that patches the game to a higher resolution, higher-res textures, etc.
Pathfinder
Member
I still say Sony and Microsoft both did themselves a disservice putting Atom-class Jaguar CPU's in their new consoles, but that's what we got, and that's what they have to work with.
This, gamers have already chosen with their wallets.
Either way, BC isn't something simple even with the same architecture, but hypothetically, if they could add BC with relative ease, they don't have to now.
Nintendo might continue to have BC which is hilarious because they are the ones that people consider to be the milkers.
PC games have remasters. Just like that. Just because there would be a PS4 version of Call of Duty 49 doesn't mean that they can't do a Call of Duty 49 PS5 that has tons of improvements.
I hope so. Even if PS4 and XBO games can't be run line-for-line on PS5 and XB2, I hope that it'll be easy enough for Sony and Microsoft to write a thin software layer to properly interpret any small differences between the systems. It'd be nice if backward compatibility from PS4 and XBO and onward becomes a given.
I think there's also a good chance that Nintendo's new integrated development approach for their next-gen handheld and next-gen console could produce a similar level of easy backward compatibility for all their systems from those future ones and onward, which I would love to see.
I think there's also a good chance that Nintendo's new integrated development approach for their next-gen handheld and next-gen console could produce a similar level of easy backward compatibility for all their systems from those future ones and onward, which I would love to see.
dr_rus
Member
Sure it will have them. There might be an SKU which won't though.
schaft0620
Member
The future of backwards compatibility: retro collections and virtualizeation