My phone absolutely beats the crap out of my 3DS screen and account-wise. It's still not a better gaming device, IMO. I prefer having good games with good controls. But we all have different priorities, that's fine. I think dedicated handhelds have became quite niche, but I'm pretty sure we enthusiasts can keep them going, like what's happening with 3DS.
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The Future of Handheld Gaming
- Thread starter Baki
- Start date
Oh, definitely. It's why those advantages on phone versus 3DS basically mean "eh, I'll ignore the web browser on the 3DS then" whereas on Vita it actually CAN be the factor that makes one go "wait I can get this on Vita? Well screw 3DS then!" My big exception was VLR and I almost regretted that (though I got it for free through PS+ so whatever) and it's why I went Vita for Batman and will for Conception II if it really IS good (well, part of the reason I went 3DS for VLR was getting 999 on 3DS and may give in again for the next game, and likewise Conception started as a PSP game so seems more appropriate to go Vita.)
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
I tried it too and i agree its a nightmare.
HolyBaikal
Banned
I think we're going to see a world where PC, mobile, and traditional consoles and handhelds fuse.
Microsost is already making phones and tablets. And many tablets are Windows based, rather than Android based. Android has almost all of the functionalty, and Linux is becoming an increasingly common operating system, between Android, SteamOS, Chrome, and Ubuntu. Android is running on RISC as well as CISC architecture. And Windows is starting to run on CISC, as well as RISC architecture. Intel and ARM are much in the same industry. Most modern handhelds are running ARM architecture, and most modern consoles are running x86 AMD hardware. Intel are even creating systems designed to run both Windows and Android. And people are creating PC gaming tablets and Android handhelds.
I think that multipurpose devices are the future of almost every technology industry. I don't that handhelds will go away. But I think that succeeeful ones, will become more-mobile.
Microsost is already making phones and tablets. And many tablets are Windows based, rather than Android based. Android has almost all of the functionalty, and Linux is becoming an increasingly common operating system, between Android, SteamOS, Chrome, and Ubuntu. Android is running on RISC as well as CISC architecture. And Windows is starting to run on CISC, as well as RISC architecture. Intel and ARM are much in the same industry. Most modern handhelds are running ARM architecture, and most modern consoles are running x86 AMD hardware. Intel are even creating systems designed to run both Windows and Android. And people are creating PC gaming tablets and Android handhelds.
I think that multipurpose devices are the future of almost every technology industry. I don't that handhelds will go away. But I think that succeeeful ones, will become more-mobile.
I played Sonic 4 on iPod Touch 4g way back, and yeah, I just don't think Sonic's a great idea to play on a phone. Only some very simple platformers work well and I'd rather get a bit more meaty anyway.
The Random Heroes games on iOS/Android play fine, yet you'll still miss-jump/shoot at times because touch controls are simply not ideal. It's fine if you want to sacrifice this in favor of convenience, but IMO you can't argue touch controls are as good as real controls.
There's also the fact that games on mobile are mostly terrible. The crap-to-gold ratio makes Wii blush. Again, I'm not anti-mobile by any means and I actually think phones are a very interesting platform, it's silly pretending they don't have any drawbacks.
There's also the fact that games on mobile are mostly terrible. The crap-to-gold ratio makes Wii blush. Again, I'm not anti-mobile by any means and I actually think phones are a very interesting platform, it's silly pretending they don't have any drawbacks.
HolyBaikal
Banned
There is more than just community available for mobile. Windows 8 is a mobile OS.
Android and CISC support from Steam is limited to the store and community, though.
Glittering Crux
Banned
I think handheld gaming still has a bright future, especially in Japan. However for it to really succeed I think they need to reduce the costs of the products. $250-$180 is a lot for a handheld gaming system especially in a recession. I think the $150 price point is as high as it should go. Games should be $30 tops too with the occasional Nintendo/Square Enix tax for big games. $40 is a lot for a handheld game and games like SMT4 are $50! The average consumer probably wouldn't buy SMT4 anyway but the price just gives a bad impression. I think there are a lot of people who want to jump in but are just turned off by the prices.
The real question is whether reduced prices are enough to get more people on board. From my own personal experience there are games I would not have bought if not for a <$40 price such as Tearaway and while it's a great game and one of my favorites of 2013 I would never have paid $40 for it. People were willing to pay $50(?) for Puzzles and Dragons on 3DS even though it's 99 cents on mobile devices so I think people are still interested in buying games for handhelds. Maybe mobile devices will be a good place to give free demos and hope they attract people to the full game on a dedicated gaming device. This kind of conflicts with my Tearaway anecdote though.
Nintendo needs to bring back interactivity with the home console. They need to bring the GameCube/GameBoy dynamic back. While I want Sony to remain in the handheld market because they offer competition I feel like one of the purposes of PSNow is going to slowly phase out the Vita.
The real question is whether reduced prices are enough to get more people on board. From my own personal experience there are games I would not have bought if not for a <$40 price such as Tearaway and while it's a great game and one of my favorites of 2013 I would never have paid $40 for it. People were willing to pay $50(?) for Puzzles and Dragons on 3DS even though it's 99 cents on mobile devices so I think people are still interested in buying games for handhelds. Maybe mobile devices will be a good place to give free demos and hope they attract people to the full game on a dedicated gaming device. This kind of conflicts with my Tearaway anecdote though.
Nintendo needs to bring back interactivity with the home console. They need to bring the GameCube/GameBoy dynamic back. While I want Sony to remain in the handheld market because they offer competition I feel like one of the purposes of PSNow is going to slowly phase out the Vita.
Holy shit, you weren't kidding. The faux direction pad is a fucking nightmare
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Hence my "good enough is the enemy of good" in reguards to that. Less is asked. Less is delivered. But it's delivered cheap and easily, and not too shabby...
Wiktor
Member
THe only way that ever happens is if Valve starts to make their own phones and tablets. Otherwise nobody will let them into their mobile ecosystems.
Interesting debate.
I don't see a Steam handheld having enough interest outside of enthusiasts to be a viable product , at least in the sense of it being 'the future of handheld gaming' .
Nintendo will be Nintendo. Their IPs are enough to justify a dedicated handheld, and they are wise to keep on targeting children. They'll keep doing the same thing.
I think that the Vita is now almost a test device for Sony's streaming tech. I think the core Vita tech might show up in phones before too long (as well as TVs) . I'm not sure whether the PlayStation library is of the type to drive market penetration like Nintendo's library would and I'm not sure that - outside of enthusiast circles - it offers a viable alternative to the iOS / Android library.
I don't see a Steam handheld having enough interest outside of enthusiasts to be a viable product , at least in the sense of it being 'the future of handheld gaming' .
Nintendo will be Nintendo. Their IPs are enough to justify a dedicated handheld, and they are wise to keep on targeting children. They'll keep doing the same thing.
I think that the Vita is now almost a test device for Sony's streaming tech. I think the core Vita tech might show up in phones before too long (as well as TVs) . I'm not sure whether the PlayStation library is of the type to drive market penetration like Nintendo's library would and I'm not sure that - outside of enthusiast circles - it offers a viable alternative to the iOS / Android library.
Deadlysword
Banned
1) I expect there to be one dedicated handheld, that being the Nintendo 3ds successor. I don't expect Sony to make a successor to the Vita. Current market conditions suggest to me that it can only sustain one dedicated handheld, and its pretty much a no-brainer which company and product can't compete in this market.
2) For Sony, get out of the market of dedicated handhelds. Stick with gaming phones like the xperia, perhaps with a design similar to the pspgo. Work on your playstation now strategy. Focus primarily on ps4.
For Nintendo, a handheld with tech relevant to that time. Ditch the 3d, its a cool feature if used correctly but not entirely necessary to enjoy the games. Stick with the dual screen concept, as I believe that opens up more gaming possibilities than 3d. Maintain/grow relationships with third party developers, get feedback for what THEY need in order to support your system. Modernize your online infrastructure with a proper account system, tying software to the account as opposed to the current asinine practice of tying to hardware. And, this hurts to say, unless you can produce a console technically on par with your competition, with decent third party support, don't bother with another home console.
Metallix87
Member
To me, that screams "fad", though. Sooner or later, consumers will want more out of their portable gaming experience, maybe not today, maybe not this year, but eventually. Once consumers start waking up to the fact that they're wasting time and money on subpar experiences, they may see some value in handhelds again, albeit at a cheaper price point.
Father_Brain
Banned
Sorry, but any prediction of consumers "waking up" to a "reality" that just happens to coincide perfectly with the prognosticator's views can pretty safely be dismissed as wishful thinking.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
It may happen: years pass, fads fade, and criteria realign to older aims.
Thing is, all those customers, and all that talent, and all those companies, and all those were tempted to the mobile market. The handheld market would have to be rebuilt anew.
Which probably means the best hope is either handheld holds on strongly ENOUGH (the software scene was barely built at all in the West, and Japan seems to be strong enough if SE's still announcing some games at least) or that most of those handheld/handheld scale efforts go to consoles and PC in the interim. I'm vaguely optimistic given the 3DS is tracking just behind DS rather than grossly behind and stuff's still getting made and announced, nevermind that I do kind of suspect we may be reaching either a breaking point or at least a saturation point in mobile where either everyone gets fed up with the F2P stuff and abandons it, or many publishers/developers find it too hard to break into and default back to traditional handhelds.
And honestly we might actually be in the best position in years for western support, just because of indies and the Vita being powerful enough to play many of those fairly well. So even if it's not Vita NATIVE we get games like Limbo, Spelunky, Guacamelee, and more come to it. If that can keep up then at worst a Vita can do more than just niche Japanese games for those with broader tastes.
Gallagher1290
Banned
If bamco would localize tales or hearts & innocence r I'd be all over a vita but since nobody in na has a vita they won't localize it 
but until tales and maybye type zero get on the vita I really have no interest
but until tales and maybye type zero get on the vita I really have no interestWait...that what is a fad? Mobile gaming? Is that the sub par experience? If so, I highly doubt its a fad. There is only room for one item in someone's pocket and right now everyone wants a cell phone. Or am I misinterpreting your post?
jts
...hate me...
How do you determine that?
LouisaFerre
Member
I personally don't think it's as dire as "smartphones or nothing" but I do think dedicated handhelds are becoming more niche. I don't think they're going to get to the point where it won't be profitable or anything, but we've reached a point where they'll only really appeal to people who specifically want a more core gaming experience. I think dedicated handhelds can live on but the market will shrink significantly, which might be unpleasant for Nintendo and Sony. The DS days were probably the peak.
I actually really like this idea... It's definitely doable, just needs to right form factor and components to make it work - in an enticing portable package.
Yet, even if definitely reduced, I'm going to bet we'll still be seeing digital cameras, music players and yes, handheld consoles.
jts
...hate me...
Have you heard of the iPad?
No, I don't disagree with that premise on a fundamental level. However I've been carrying a phone on me since like 98. It already played games too.
A shadow of their former market share. Ipod sales are way, way down from their highs. Nikkon and Canon see smartphone use as a very serious threat. 3DS is selling below GBA numbers for now and way below the DS which was released 3 years after the GBA launch stifling its potential. A jack of all trades that can do may things well enough at an attractive enough price will seriously hurt dedicated devices. Of course there will always be companies happy to offer niche products and live in the shadows of giants.
francisnobleman
Banned
If Nintendo sees the light, they will team up with google and embrace android for its next handheld.
A 6" screen, with half a teraflop of performance by 2017, with a google play store and nintendo store would surpass the original DS.
A 6" screen, with half a teraflop of performance by 2017, with a google play store and nintendo store would surpass the original DS.
I disagree with "basic human nature." That's quite some intelligent design if we're born to not take 2 electronic devices because of instinct. It also would appear people are buying more devices overall. Tablets and phones are extremely similar yet both exist.
Well that's basically what I mean. Nothing wrong with a niche product unless it's a money sink. Ideally every company would like to have a mass market smash success, obviously, but Nintendo can't make a smartphone.
I have yet to see anyone use an ipad in public. I know plenty of people who own one though and they keep it at home. Do you disagree? Do you see ipads as regularly as iphones despite their monstrous sales?
Do you believe people will carry a handheld dedicated device and a general purpose device?
One is for house, the other to carry at all the times.
Lots of wishful thinking on the topic... expected.
It's just you. What happened is that people started accommodating technology when it stopped fitting in their pants. The iPad is likely in a bag and they'll use it at a table in Starbucks but they'll use a phone waiting for a bus. Plenty of people carry eReaders as well.
Why does this matter? US portables are commonly used in the house as well, often exclusively.
They can't? They can't? Man... we had lots of new comers in the smartphone market. Nintendo could definitely hire some ex-engineers from experienced phone companies and they certainly do have the resources. They could also do a special deal with another company to release a niche more expensive mobile version of their next handheld alongside with a cheaper typical games only version.
Can't? They definitely could.
I'm going to let reality prove me right
20cent
Banned
I don't think that a gaming phone is a must but at least they need to make "real" multimedia machines that can compete with ipod touch / tablet basic functions. Or at least usable.
The Vita or the 3DS are a joke when it comes to simple things like internet browsing.
(no, i'm not asking for stupid apps / casual mobile gaming; only decent modern functions)
The Vita or the 3DS are a joke when it comes to simple things like internet browsing.
(no, i'm not asking for stupid apps / casual mobile gaming; only decent modern functions)
I'm going to let reality prove me right
Just because they don't/won't do it, doesn't mean that its not possible.
Okay then you didn't get my point - I think it'd be highly idiotic of Nintendo to make a smartphone.
LouisaFerre
Member
You have to keep in mind that they wouldn't have a fraction of the resources competitors(Apple/Samsung) would have access to.
If they try that, then I'm just out.
I guess it might just be passable for turn-based rpgs, but screw everything beyond that.
In fact, screw all of it, even that. I'm not going to buy a dedicated gaming device with a built-in input lag for every bit of every game.
No thank you.
That doesn't mean that it deserves any descriptor other than "suck" though.
No matter how fast a connection is available, there is going to be latency inherent in the fact that the actual hardware running the game is located elsewhere. That limitation will exist forever unless we develop wormhole technology or something that makes truly instantaneous communication possible.
Handhelds as we know them now at least are in your hands running the game that you are playing, which is way better than the proposition of streaming all your games from a remote server.
I'll stream movies and music all day long, but fuck that shit when it comes to games.
I love handhelds but I tend to agree with him. If handheld become the sole focus of the industry and PC/console gaming is a thing of the past, I would be quite unhappy.
PCs and consoles will always be more powerful machines than handhelds because you can pack a whole lot more hardware in there and cool it effectively. Not to mention having a proper power source.
I've been using mobile phones since the mid 90s. I'm used to them. They are great for making phone calls. Sending text messages is handy.
For games? I haven't seen a phone that is worth a fuck. For the ability to play any style of game, and not be limited to virtual buttons, dedicated hardware suits me much better.
There are two phones that are highly successful: iPhones and Galaxy phones (and arguably LG).
The market share for everyone else is tiny and they're all companies which manufacture diverse products. Nintendo going Android would NOT automatically make them successful, not even if their phone is great (see Sony). Also, phones are a yearly thing, and specs matter a lot. It's basically the exact opposite of what Nintendo does, it's just an insanely terrible idea no matter how you look at it.
Ah, I really doubt that. Dedicated handhelds? Yes. Tablets too. Smartphones, hell no.
The point is: dedicated handhelds are losing space to Tablets and smartphones. I doubt Nintendo wants their portable to be niche.
jts
...hate me...
Do you believe people already do?
There's billions of people in the world mate. Some of them will carry a bag, and have a laptop, a tablet, a console, a chapstick. I don't buy that "there's only room for one device", however I can agree that said general device will be far more popular. Albeit jack of all trades, master of none.
And as you said it yourself regarding the iPad, people will still find value in portable devices for home usage, knowingly that they can throw it on a bag at will, if needed.
What I carry all the time:
Phone
What I carry 5 days a week in a bag:
Laptop
Sometimes:
iPad
3DS
A "one device future" is an interesting proposition and it's certainly easy to state its advantages. Theoretically it can even replace your home devices, like home consoles, set top boxes, media centers. Provided enough power and connectivity.
But we're still far from that.
LouisaFerre
Member
This is something more people need to consider. Assuming they go android, they'd be competing with tons of other companies that already have more resources and expertise than they do, with the same software and support. They only really have a chance as a hardware maker because they have their own sort of private software ecosystem to sell their machines. Trying to rebuild that in the smartphone market this late in the game would be suicide, especially when even Microsoft is having trouble making Windows Phone a serious contender.
It's a given for all devices as we move forward. People are looking for specialization. What size is my tablet 10" or 7"? What size is my phone 6" or 4"? Do I buy for a better camera? Do I buy for a specific OS? Do I buy for large screen resolution? Stylus support? How much do I want to pay? There is less overall one-size-fits-all, instead it's all becoming a collection of niches.
So I'm supposed to believe that general computing devices such as smartphones have no meaningful impact on dedicated handhelds and by extension any dedicated electronic device because people are willing to carry the following on a regulr basis:
Smartphone
Tablet
Laptop
E-reader
MP3 player
DSLR camera
Dedicated handheld gaming device
Considering the sales of the various devices mentioned I would have to say that expendable income is limited. Dedicated devices are the odd man out. They can be effectively replaced by devices that do a variety of functions well enough. Smartphones and tablets are burning everything in their wake and dedicated handheld devices are already suffering. Moble devices only become better at what they do as time goes on. Not worse.
So unless the mobile market (I'm lumping phones and tablets) begins to collapse...dedicated devices are never going to come close to their previous highs. Nintendo is in some deep shit unless they start making their handhelds do more general functions well enough.
Smartphone
Tablet
Laptop
E-reader
MP3 player
DSLR camera
Dedicated handheld gaming device
Considering the sales of the various devices mentioned I would have to say that expendable income is limited. Dedicated devices are the odd man out. They can be effectively replaced by devices that do a variety of functions well enough. Smartphones and tablets are burning everything in their wake and dedicated handheld devices are already suffering. Moble devices only become better at what they do as time goes on. Not worse.
So unless the mobile market (I'm lumping phones and tablets) begins to collapse...dedicated devices are never going to come close to their previous highs. Nintendo is in some deep shit unless they start making their handhelds do more general functions well enough.
We'll agree to disagree then.
WHO is saying this? No one. No one is saying this. I think the point is that dedicated devices might not die, just become niche. I have friends who are into photography, so they carry a camera along with their phone. I carry my 3DS along with my phone. Some people I know carry their iPod along with their iPhone, lol.
disastermouse
Banned
I don't play anything on my phone anymore. I need buttons and sticks, dammit!
Sure, the 3DS, and to a larger extent PS Vita, are more 'transportable' than portable. However, phones just suck for games that are beyond little distractions. Gaming on phones dramatically draws down battery power in a device that needs to be somewhat charged and turned on pretty much all the time. That and a lack of tactile controls just kills exactly the kind of indie game experiences that might otherwise be great on phones. As for bigger games - card swaps or iOS storage space limitations are a major issue as well.