Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Anyone born 1990 or later probably doesn't know Koji Kondo lol
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The Game Awards is some dumb bullshit
- Thread starter Piston Hyundai
- Start date
AHA-Lambda
Member
This. Fantastic year XD
Permanently A
Junior Member
The worst part was definitely the advertising, I don't remember it being so awful last year. It might be the fact that having Bosman advertise things just feels wrong. The advertisements need to be kept as separate as possible from the actual show. No Schlick man, pls. Just "The Game Awards is brought to you by Schlick" cutaway message and a Schlick man skin in a game if you want to be extra about it. At the end of the day you have to tie it back to games in some way.
Also their musical acts were good but not appropriate for the audience. Like another poster mentioned, bring in your big names but have them do video game stuff instead. Hell, forgo the big names altogether and just have composers performing iconic music and I'm sure that would go down a lot better.
Also their musical acts were good but not appropriate for the audience. Like another poster mentioned, bring in your big names but have them do video game stuff instead. Hell, forgo the big names altogether and just have composers performing iconic music and I'm sure that would go down a lot better.
QuixoticNeutral
Member
The old television broadcast model adopted by modern streaming services, as you all know, rests on a foundation of making you suffer through advertisements as the price of admission to the content.
This is perhaps the only event I can think of, apart from maybe the Super Bowl (if you're really into high-quality advertising as a film form and not that keen on the NFL), where the "content" is what you suffer through as the price of admission to the débuts of advertisements.
We're the Super Bowl now, boys.
*
In seriousness, I've come to accept that if Keighley wants to solicit all kinds of corporate investment all the way up to Peter Moore to give his industry buddies trophies and glitzy pats on the back, that's his business and his honest passion. Everything tacky about this variety show where every big industry player is trying to shove in their mid-term push halfway between E3s is a reflection of how tacky the "consensus mainstream AAA game culture" is and has always been, from the original hobby mags to the IGNs to the clowning around that is so well rewarded among streamers. You want an honest reflection of the consensus gamer-world, you've got it.
The real action, the breath of sanity, isn't in the big hype cycles that revolve around the idea of the Games Industry or Video Game Culture as one thing to embrace as a whole. Do that and you get the incoherence you saw. Micro-communities and intimate niches are fine. It's okay to only give a damn about the few select genres or developers who give a damn about you. The idea of video games as a monolithic thing to be celebrated in all its crassness is really only in the interests of the big consolidated players with a finger in every pie and no coherent vision.
I've always had the impression that Keighley is genuine about according some prestige and name recognition to longtime industry pillars like Kojima. But an event like this just serves to hammer down received ideas of who's important and who's in charge. I like some of the big players, but put them all together in a room and you can tell there isn't a single market here to celebrate. I see a lot more honesty and heart in a mega-event like BlizzCon, which is 100% single-party advertorial and hype, but by god, at least there is actually a subculture there, not an assembly of cordial competitors desperate to squeeze the most ROI out of their precious minutes.
I know that in places like NeoGAF especially, institutional memories are long and we're all accustomed to the old ways—the discrete generations, the console wars, the E3 reveals, the performative dishing of 8s and 9s and GOTYs from a hobbyist press still high on the thrill of playing games early and for free—but an event like this, by and for the old guard and the old money, just serves to highlight how painfully obsolete this vision is. And it's a crusty obsolescence hardly assuaged by token awards for Twitch celebrities and e-sports heroes just to stay hip with the kids (and I say that as someone who's been bullish about e-sports since well before there was such a thing as Twitch).
But sure, carry on with figuring out how next time around they should do a little better at shuffling the Titanic Deck Chair of the Year. You can't grace an event like this with class. You are searching for the right lipstick for something that, in spite of Keighley's best intentions, only gets funded and consolidated on a stage like this because it is conceptually a pig.
This is perhaps the only event I can think of, apart from maybe the Super Bowl (if you're really into high-quality advertising as a film form and not that keen on the NFL), where the "content" is what you suffer through as the price of admission to the débuts of advertisements.
We're the Super Bowl now, boys.
*
In seriousness, I've come to accept that if Keighley wants to solicit all kinds of corporate investment all the way up to Peter Moore to give his industry buddies trophies and glitzy pats on the back, that's his business and his honest passion. Everything tacky about this variety show where every big industry player is trying to shove in their mid-term push halfway between E3s is a reflection of how tacky the "consensus mainstream AAA game culture" is and has always been, from the original hobby mags to the IGNs to the clowning around that is so well rewarded among streamers. You want an honest reflection of the consensus gamer-world, you've got it.
The real action, the breath of sanity, isn't in the big hype cycles that revolve around the idea of the Games Industry or Video Game Culture as one thing to embrace as a whole. Do that and you get the incoherence you saw. Micro-communities and intimate niches are fine. It's okay to only give a damn about the few select genres or developers who give a damn about you. The idea of video games as a monolithic thing to be celebrated in all its crassness is really only in the interests of the big consolidated players with a finger in every pie and no coherent vision.
I've always had the impression that Keighley is genuine about according some prestige and name recognition to longtime industry pillars like Kojima. But an event like this just serves to hammer down received ideas of who's important and who's in charge. I like some of the big players, but put them all together in a room and you can tell there isn't a single market here to celebrate. I see a lot more honesty and heart in a mega-event like BlizzCon, which is 100% single-party advertorial and hype, but by god, at least there is actually a subculture there, not an assembly of cordial competitors desperate to squeeze the most ROI out of their precious minutes.
I know that in places like NeoGAF especially, institutional memories are long and we're all accustomed to the old ways—the discrete generations, the console wars, the E3 reveals, the performative dishing of 8s and 9s and GOTYs from a hobbyist press still high on the thrill of playing games early and for free—but an event like this, by and for the old guard and the old money, just serves to highlight how painfully obsolete this vision is. And it's a crusty obsolescence hardly assuaged by token awards for Twitch celebrities and e-sports heroes just to stay hip with the kids (and I say that as someone who's been bullish about e-sports since well before there was such a thing as Twitch).
But sure, carry on with figuring out how next time around they should do a little better at shuffling the Titanic Deck Chair of the Year. You can't grace an event like this with class. You are searching for the right lipstick for something that, in spite of Keighley's best intentions, only gets funded and consolidated on a stage like this because it is conceptually a pig.
I'm 1990 and I do know him and his music, thank you very much.
Boss Mog
Member
Man what a joke Overwatch winning GOTY, next year it might as well be a mobile game. Zero consistency too since Doom beat it for action GOTY. What a big "fuck you!" to Naughty Dog as well, not only no GOTY but not even action/adventure GOTY.
If gaming keeps shifting towards stuff like mobile, MOBAs, e-sports, micro-transactions, free2play, pay2win, etc... I might have to find a new hobby cause that stuff isn't for me.
If gaming keeps shifting towards stuff like mobile, MOBAs, e-sports, micro-transactions, free2play, pay2win, etc... I might have to find a new hobby cause that stuff isn't for me.
More_Badass
Member
The geunue heart-poured-out Dragon Cancer speech sandwiched between cheery Youtubers and the clapping crowd highlighted that nicely
I'd argue that stuff like BAFTAs and Dice Awards are much better reflections of what we'd ideally like this kind of event to be
Theanine3D
Member
Where are you getting this from? I was born '90, and grew up with his 90s greats like Super Mario World, Yoshi's Island, etc.
Kondo is a staple in my music library.
I don't agree with everything in your post, but I definitely agree with that last part.
Video game culture itself is often very embarrassing and cringey so it's not surprising that an awards show for videogames ends up reflecting that.
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
I would say it will actively continue to get worse. Geoff only seems interested on promoting his friends and sponsors. Oh and the sponsors also happen to be his friends. So, no. I don't see it ever improving.
AHA-Lambda
Member
1991 and I know
Would you prefer next year they have no ads, no light show, no announcements, no content and no audience and Geoff Keighley shouts the results from inside a cardboard box on a cliff in LA somewhere?
Honestly the show was pretty decent, and if having a quality show (for free, mind you) means having to sit through marketing, 90% of which includes some well made trailers, I think that's a pretty good deal.
Well done to Boogie for winning an award too, that bloke deserves it.
Honestly the show was pretty decent, and if having a quality show (for free, mind you) means having to sit through marketing, 90% of which includes some well made trailers, I think that's a pretty good deal.
Well done to Boogie for winning an award too, that bloke deserves it.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
alright, 90s kids will remember Kondo lol
Professor Lich
Member
Just figured I'd link this out since I mentioned it a few posts ago.
Game Developer's Choice Awards - Hosted by Tim Schafer
Worth checking out even though it's from last year.
Game Developer's Choice Awards - Hosted by Tim Schafer
Worth checking out even though it's from last year.
No it was eligible, just wasn't particularly noteworthy. Probably should have gotten a nom for art direction, but that's about it.
Crooked16th
Banned
After the opening with Geoff and Kojima we all knew what kind of show it was going to be.
The problem was the structure of the show more then anything else. The music should have been cut down to half of what they had and they should have given more thought to the games for impact and trending gamer awards as their presentations felt very half assed. The ads and promotions were all over the place as well, Just have a commercial breaks so the product placement doesn't feel cheap and stupid. Also have people sit down in the seats it feels strange to see empty seats when you have like 100 people standing at the front of the stage. Its just small things that keep this from being a great show.
The problem was the structure of the show more then anything else. The music should have been cut down to half of what they had and they should have given more thought to the games for impact and trending gamer awards as their presentations felt very half assed. The ads and promotions were all over the place as well, Just have a commercial breaks so the product placement doesn't feel cheap and stupid. Also have people sit down in the seats it feels strange to see empty seats when you have like 100 people standing at the front of the stage. Its just small things that keep this from being a great show.
AnthonypUK
Member
what got me was they couldn't give screen time to alot of awards, some given out as an aside on the pre show.
yet we got 5 -10 minutes of that giant fucking razor dotted throughout the show.
The % of gaming focused content to advertisement and the other bullshit was way, way out.
yet we got 5 -10 minutes of that giant fucking razor dotted throughout the show.
The % of gaming focused content to advertisement and the other bullshit was way, way out.
He's not trending because he done been top tier for years.
Milly Osworth
Member
The advertising was poorly done. Other than that it was not bad. Videogames should not be too serious. The baby faced dudes in tuxedos at esports for example, is just hilarious.
Chezzymann
Member
But people care about those awards more
Riposte
Member
Award ceremonies should be silly, so as to at least to be entertaining, because they are fundamentally stupid and pretentious.
The big one, The Oscars, is stupid and pretentious - the idea that not only do we need to spend millions of dollars on a fancy ceremony to say "your movie is good" like thousands of websites and publications already do, but that it also makes that praise more valuable and objective for doing so. We know the sheer dumb fuckery that goes on in both GOTY discussions (thanks GiantBomb) and the selection of Oscars winners (most can't even be bothered to watch all of the nominations and may even vote for a movie they haven't seen). It's still dumb shit in the end, no matter how you dress it up; dressing it up just distracts from any value you get from ranking a year's bounty.
I have a bigger problem with people wanting "better" than the crappy shows we do get (which at least have neat game previews now). We like diverse perspectives and unique point of views, but the fervor to build a big centralized monster to overshadow decentralized opinions shows how much more we like inflating our egos with pretentious crap: "See, we have our very own Oscars, we are a big boy's medium!" It's filling a void that shouldn't exist in the first place. If videogames never get an Oscars, and the Oscars were to fall apart, we will all be better off as a species.
The big one, The Oscars, is stupid and pretentious - the idea that not only do we need to spend millions of dollars on a fancy ceremony to say "your movie is good" like thousands of websites and publications already do, but that it also makes that praise more valuable and objective for doing so. We know the sheer dumb fuckery that goes on in both GOTY discussions (thanks GiantBomb) and the selection of Oscars winners (most can't even be bothered to watch all of the nominations and may even vote for a movie they haven't seen). It's still dumb shit in the end, no matter how you dress it up; dressing it up just distracts from any value you get from ranking a year's bounty.
I have a bigger problem with people wanting "better" than the crappy shows we do get (which at least have neat game previews now). We like diverse perspectives and unique point of views, but the fervor to build a big centralized monster to overshadow decentralized opinions shows how much more we like inflating our egos with pretentious crap: "See, we have our very own Oscars, we are a big boy's medium!" It's filling a void that shouldn't exist in the first place. If videogames never get an Oscars, and the Oscars were to fall apart, we will all be better off as a species.
If you want a real professional award show:
It's the BAFTAs
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Academy_Games_Awards
The next one is in April. Nominees in March.
It's the BAFTAs
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Academy_Games_Awards
The next one is in April. Nominees in March.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
It was awful imo, just like last year. Sorry Geoff, your show is only enjoyable for me when I am ready to cringe myself to death.
That AC/AMD section was god awful, man. Also Kyle Bosman, disappoints me more each time I see him.
That AC/AMD section was god awful, man. Also Kyle Bosman, disappoints me more each time I see him.
rochellepaws
Member
Yes, I would prefer awards which celebrate the industry and not a marketing event to serve the interests of large AAA western publishers. It could be a guy at a desk for all I'd care, it'd still be worth more to me than the current package which is entirely useless.
I don't even care about the advertising during the show so long as the awards were credible which they can never even pretend to be so long as they're voted on in November and predominantly by outlets based in the bay area chosen as representative of the global industry.
The problem with the BAFTA's is that only members of their academy can get nominated so a lot of notable games/developers get ignored.
Presentation wise it's fantastic though.
amiablepercy
Banned
You want a spectacle and want some finessed artistically minded presentation at the same time. It just isn't possible. People who question the whys of a show like this are entitled and have obviously never worked in the entertainment industry. It just is what it is. Publishers don't owe you anything besides a quality product once you've paid good money for it. These first look exclusives, the labor it takes to coordinate talent and accommodations, venue costs, and those giant Barco screens and production executions cost money.
More_Badass
Member
See, they've been doing it right for 15 years. Why can't you just do that with new trailers and premieres sprinkled throughout?
Yeesh. The cynicism in this thread is pretty depressing.
I just watched the stream back when I woke up this morning and enjoyed it. Yes, the commercialism side of it isn't great but I can live with it.
I genuinely believe Geoff is trying to make something good for the industry and I like it. Sure it could be better, but I expect it to improve as the years go by.
I just watched the stream back when I woke up this morning and enjoyed it. Yes, the commercialism side of it isn't great but I can live with it.
I genuinely believe Geoff is trying to make something good for the industry and I like it. Sure it could be better, but I expect it to improve as the years go by.
amiablepercy
Banned
Without marketing there is no industry. New and social media have changed the game certainly but traditional marketing is still a major cog. It was a free streaming media event and honestly the organizers deserve credit for how professional it actually looked. Killer Mike didn't work for you (it did for me and Mike could take many of you to school with his knowledge of the explicit ills of media or capitalism in general) so 4 minutes later something or someone else took his place on stage. You had 4 minutes where you weren't being personally satisfied but you act like it is an egregious betrayal of the medium. Peeps need to grow up themselves if they went to have the right to hem and haw about how the gaming industry need to grow up. The gaming industry and gamers are a reflection of each other.
SprachBrooks
Member
Yeah but the Crowbcat content should be pretty good, so they should continue to exist and be abysmal like this.
amiablepercy
Banned
The GDC is a mellower and definitely more subtle show for sure but its demographic is not the average gaming consumer. Trying to get this show to be like another services what end? The GDC awards exist and you can obviously watch it... so watch it. Geoff isn't taking anything away from you.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Eh I didn't think it was so bad. Good award picks, decent music even if not totally relevant, cringey advertising,... been one of the better TGAs Geoff did a good job no one else wants to do imo.
Never quite understood why these are spectacles for us. The only thing is that you get to see your 'tribe' win, but it doesn't make the game suddenly better or anything. The acceptance speeches can be interesting but it's a small group representing hundreds of people.
The industry recognition awards are about the only thing that are interesting from our perspective.
I think it's this mixed focus that means it'll always be not great. Add on top the limited funds from advertising and steps to secure that and you got a real mixed bag.
The industry recognition awards are about the only thing that are interesting from our perspective.
I think it's this mixed focus that means it'll always be not great. Add on top the limited funds from advertising and steps to secure that and you got a real mixed bag.
I think a big problem with any video game awards show aspiring to be like the Oscars is that the Academy Awards largely center around people who are in front of a camera for a living. They're comfortable speaking in front of large groups of people, they're charismatic, attractive, etc.
As the video game industry doesn't give a shit about its voice actors, the people accepting the awards at video game awards shows are usually uncomfortable nerdy programmer types, and most of the hosts are video games journalists who aren't much better in terms of exuding charisma in front of a camera.
And I mean, what do most gamers really look forward to the most with these things? Trailers for new/unannounced games. Which is so weird. Imagine if the Oscars' biggest appeal was showing trailers for new movies.
The Oscars really are about the people receiving the awards.
But with stuff like the VGAs or The Game Awards there are so few household names in the video game industry, an industry that seemingly does everything in its power to keep things that way, to prevent any one designer or director from becoming too powerful or influential, so most of the awards are either technical or simply a ranked list of games that feels no more authoritative than any given Best Of 2016 listicle you'd find on the Internet.
The gaming industry continues to have such a huge inferiority complex, constantly comparing itself to Hollywood, but it makes no attempt to address these problems.
amiablepercy
Banned
Geoff's game awards is 2 years old. It is produced in a completely different region and market. BAFTA's Gaming show has had 11 ceremonies since 2004.
More_Badass
Member
Actually puts the focus on the games and awards in a show titled as such, rather than having more music performances and sponsorship stuff than actual awards and speeches?
And what's with the notion that often tries to frame criticism as wanting to take things away?
plasmawave
Banned
You're just bitter because of the lack of Batman game announcement.
Django.Mango
Member
So many people saying this awarding thing is really expensive and ads and ass powdering is essential. Can you point out what exactly is that expensive? To give your game/project/company a plus audience, i think most devs or publishers are interested in any form of public attention, let alone getting an award.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
It made me discover CHVRCHES so it can't be all that dumb.
amiablepercy
Banned
Right on. Comparing gaming to an industry, film, that rewards performance proportionally so much more than craft is a fool's errand. Just look at the ratings metrics for an Oscar cast. The peaks are during the acting/performance awards. Even Best Picture slumps down. They have a whole non telecasted technical ceremony because people en masse don't give a fuck like enthusiasts do.
GodfatherX
Member
This won't be a popular opinion but the scale needs to be dropped way down. The year with Joel mchale is the type of environment for this. Where Geoff can issue out awards and actually put his and the developers personality on display. A small venue with maybe 100 people, no projector stage etc
plasmawave
Banned
Well you need to hire some staff and rent the MS Theater for starters. That's gotta cost them.
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At least this year it wasn't really demeaning to female gamers like it has been in the past, which reminds me that female gamers should try the new Schick Hydro Silk® TrimStyle® Razor. It's the only hydrating razor and waterproof bikini trimmer in one convenient tool to tackle your everyday leg and bikini care needs.
From refillable to disposable, Schick® has the right razor for you!