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[Chairman Yang]

Despite their prevalence and mixed quality in recent years, historical epics are still one of my most loved genres of film. I love their settings, their cinematography, their action, and their scope.

My favourites are the old standbys of Braveheart and Gladiator, but I also really enjoyed Troy and King Arthur (despite their tepid reception), since they looked great, and had solid action in addition to some genuinely interesting dramatic moments. Alexander was total ass. It's rare I've seen such an abhorrent waste of such amazing source material, with a solid cast and giant budget. Master and Commander was good, too...it was one of the most immersive of the historical epics. Elizabeth is very underrated. It's nuanced and personal while still retaining its "epicness". Kingdom of Heaven was bleh, despite Scott's typically great cinematography--I mean, the underlying message of the movie was about as bland as he could've delivered.

What do you think of the genre? Is it completely overplayed, especially in light of the spate of fantasy epics? What are your favourite and least favourite examples of the genre? What upcoming films are you really anticipating? Is there any particular subject matter you'd want to see treated? (I really want GOOD Genghis Khan and Shivaji biopics with high production values, and a movie based on the Siege of Vienna)

EDIT: Feel free to talk TV, too. HBO's Rome was one of the best historical epic experiences I've had, period.

 

[Azih]

I liked Kingdom of Heaven. If the directors cut ever comes out I'm getting it on DVD for sure.

 

[Chairman Yang]

I liked Kingdom of Heaven. If the directors cut ever comes out I'm getting it on DVD for sure.

I've heard there is a Director's Cut planned, and with like an hour of extra footage. I'll definitely check it out, because one of the problems I had with KoH was that a lot of the characters just weren't properly developed and didn't have enough screentime. Ed Norton's King Baldwin and Saladin come to mind--both were badasses.

 

[whytemyke]

christ, that was norton as baldwin? i didn't even recognize him.

you should check out The Last Samurai.

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

I would love historical films more, but unfortunately there is something of a vicious cycle in their making. Because of the financial demands of making them they need to be as commercial as possible, so invariably a lot blander than you'd hope.

I also don't like the way modern morality and social constructions are transposed onto the time period.

So, except for a few exceptions I always seem to come away from a historical film dissapointed by it's blandness.

 

[whytemyke]

I would love historical films more, but unfortunately there is something of a vicious cycle in their making. Because of the financial demands of making them they need to be as commercial as possible, so invariably a lot blander than you'd hope.

I also don't like the way modern morality and social constructions are transposed onto the time period.

So, except for a few exceptions I always seem to come away from a historical film dissapointed by it's blandness.

watch the last samurai! (yes, I will go Demi on this topic if I have to :lol)

 

[Chairman Yang]

christ, that was norton as baldwin? i didn't even recognize him.

you should check out The Last Samurai.

Yeah, I liked Last Samurai despite it feeling kind of "Hollywoody". The soundtrack, like most of Hans Zimmer's stuff, was absolutely brilliant.

 

[HyperZone<3]

you should check out The Last Samurai.

nah, you shouldn't. Frankly, I'm a little sick of all dose overstuffed epics myself. I haven't even seen the most recentl spate of them. Some good ones would be...

 

[Chairman Yang]

I would love historical films more, but unfortunately there is something of a vicious cycle in their making. Because of the financial demands of making them they need to be as commercial as possible, so invariably a lot blander than you'd hope.

I also don't like the way modern morality and social constructions are transposed onto the time period.

So, except for a few exceptions I always seem to come away from a historical film dissapointed by it's blandness.

I actually agree with you (and enjoy some historical films despite the flaws you mentioned). You should check out some TV miniseries that address all of the flaws you mentioned. In particular, the old Shogun series and HBO's Rome. Both don't shy away from historical realities, and both address subjects that aren't usual in Hollywood historical epics.

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

I have seen The Last Samurai and it's probably a perfect example of a film that 'Hollywooded' history.

I was really looking forward to Rome, unfortunately, due to various things, I missed the first 3/4 episodes and couldn't really get into it after that, although that might be more of a thing that I don't like not seeing the start of something. If someone's watching a movie that I really want to see, even if it's only 15 minutes in I won't watch it with them. I'm gonna wait for the DVDs then watch it from the start.

I did really like Master and Commander though, even though I was really not expecting to.

 

[FlameOfCallandor]

 

[Arfæstnes]

The first is also the best:

 

[whytemyke]

nah, you shouldn't. Frankly, I'm a little sick of all dose overstuffed epics myself. I haven't even seen the most recentl spate of them. Some good ones would be...

Those are all good, but Last Samurai was awesome, too. You never, ever see a movie that actually glorifies Eastern thought, and that fact alone should necessitate you all into seein Last Samurai. Besides, the last battle was fucking awesome, and right when you start to hope that it becomes completely cliche... it turns around. I mean, the movie isn't even about "Hollywooding" history. It's not even about history. It's a study of western culture from the time. Basically, to me, it's impossible to like Braveheart but dislike Last Samurai.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

christ, that was norton as baldwin? i didn't even recognize him.

you should check out The Last Samurai.

I don't care if it's "Hollywood/romantized" or not, I absolutely loved The Last Samurai, the characters, the performaces, the music, the beauty, hell, motherf'n' ninjas versus samurai!!! That alone is worth the watch!!!

 

[whytemyke]

I don't care if it's "Hollywood/romantized" or not, I absolutely loved The Last Samurai, the characters, the performaces, the music, the beauty, hell, motherf'n' ninja's versus samurai!!! That alone is worth the watch!!!

Someone get this man a drink!


edit: I loved Gettysburg, too. Did anyone else who liked Gettysburg also like Gods and Generals? I get the feeling that the only people who enjoyed Gods and Generals are history buffs who love that kind of stuff. Although, I did hate how they cast Lang (I think) as Pickett in Gettysburg and then Jackson in Gods and Generals. Any word on if they're gonna make The Last Full Measure anytime soon?

 

[FlameOfCallandor]

I don't care if it's "Hollywood/romantized" or not, I absolutely loved The Last Samurai, the characters, the performaces, the music, the beauty, hell, motherf'n' ninjas versus samurai!!! That alone is worth the watch!!!

Yea I really like how it was Dances With Wolves in Japan.

 

[Wafflecopter]

I didn't like the end to Samurai. Felt Cruise should've




**SPOILERS*****FUCKING SPOILERS***********




Died.





END FUCKING SPOILERS************




Not that you could spoil what happens in the end. It is called The Last Samurai ^_^

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Yea I really like how it was Dances With Wolves in Japan.

Ninjas and Samurai >>> Indians and Union/Confederate soldiers.

 

[ronito]

I didn't like the end to Samurai. Felt Cruise should've




**SPOILERS*****FUCKING SPOILERS***********




Died.





END FUCKING SPOILERS************




Not that you could spoil what happens in the end. It is called The Last Samurai ^_^

frankly, any movie where Tom Cruise is still alive at the end is dissappointing.

 

[Wafflecopter]

frankly, any movie where Tom Cruise is still alive at the end is dissappointing.

:lol


You should watch



**COCKSUCKING SPOILERS****





Colaterall


END*****SPOILERS******

 

[Doublesith]

I liked Kingdom of Heaven. If the directors cut ever comes out I'm getting it on DVD for sure.

I've heard there is a Director's Cut planned, and with like an hour of extra footage. I'll definitely check it out, because one of the problems I had with KoH was that a lot of the characters just weren't properly developed and didn't have enough screentime. Ed Norton's King Baldwin and Saladin come to mind--both were badasses

The Director's Cut DVD has been announced:

Fox has announced a director's cut of Kingdom of Heaven which stars Orlando Bloom and Liam Neeson. This new four-disc special edition will be available to own from the 23rd May, and should retail at around $34.98. The film itself will be presented in anamorphic widescreen, along with both English Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS 5.1 Surround tracks. Extras will include an introduction by Ridley Scott, an audio commentary with Ridley Scott, Writer William Monahan, executive producer Lisa Ellzey, film editor Dody Dorn, visual effects supervisor Wes Sewell and first assistant director Adam Somner, some story notes, a multi-part documentary entitled Path to Redemption (Part I: Good Intentions, Part II: Faith and Courage, Part III: The Pilgrimage Begins, Part IV: Into The Promised Land, Part V: The Burning Bush and Part VI: Sins and Absolution), a "Tripoli" Overview & Gallery, a first draft screenplay by William Monahan, Screen Tests, cast rehearsals, a Costume & Weapon Design featurette, multiple galleries (location scouting, production design, conceptual art, and costume), and a Creative Accuracy: The Scholars Speak feature. Completing the package will be storyboard comparisons, an Unholy War: Mounting The Siege featurette, deleted and alternate scenes, a sound design suite, visual effects breakdowns, a press junket walkthrough, footage of the Japanese and London premieres, multiple trailers and tv spots, a ShoWest Presentation, and footage of the Director's Cut and DVD campaign. We've attached the official region one artwork below:

dvdactive.com

 

[CajoleJuice]

Hopefully, this Director's Cut is decent, as the theatrical cut was pretty bad. And I immensely enjoyed Braveheart, Gladiator, The Last Samurai. Even Troy was better IMO.

If I ever have the time I will try to watch Rome. I doubt I ever will though. One of my friends says its fucking great.

 

[swoon]

My favourites are the old standbys of Braveheart and Gladiator, but I also really enjoyed Troy and King Arthur

amazing.

 

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

After reading so much negative press about Kingdom of Heaven I didn't have the highest of expectations going into it when I finally sat down to watch it last month but I gotta say that I was pleasantly surprised. It wasn't a "great" film but it certainly wasn't atrociously bad ala Alexander and I could see that if it was properly re-edited and fleshed out some of the characters better that it has the potential to be a pretty damn good movie. I'll definately be checking out the director's cut.

 

[Doublesith]

Here's Moriarty's review of the Kingdom Of Heaven DC back from when it was released in L.A. a few months ago. Goes a bit into the plot points that were restored. Spoilers, of course.

 

[muphins]

Can anyone suggest some movies that are like the big David Lean epics?

 

[Kevtones]

Kingdom of Heaven was pretty good. A lot better then I expected.

Not sure if it qualifies as an epic but I loved "Downfall'

"To Live" rocks

 

[Lefty]

Here is an old one but its good(VERY long though) If you have any interest in Roman history this is a great movie as it shows the beginnings of the Roman Empire from Augustus to Nero.

I, Cladius

 

[J2 Cool]

 

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

Not sure if it qualifies as an epic but I loved "Downfall'

Downfall wasn't an epic but it's still a damn good historical film. It's probably the best movie I've seen in the last couple of years.

 

[ManaByte]

This is not a joke post.

It may be boring, but it's by far the most historically accurate "epic". It's almost a documentary it's so dead on to the original texts about Alexander. The attention to detail is so great, they actually went to some of the original stories that described (in pretty great detail) Alexander's mannerisms such as how he would tilt his head; and Farrel recreates those.

It may be a boring as hell movie, but if you're looking for historical accuracy in a hollywood epic there aren't many that are better.

First person to post Braveheart needs to hit the books.

 

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

This is not a joke post.

It may be boring, but it's by far the most historically accurate "epic". It's almost a documentary it's so dead on to the original texts about Alexander. The attention to detail is so great, they actually went to some of the original stories that described (in pretty great detail) Alexander's mannerisms such as how he would tilt his head; and Farrel recreates those.

It may be a boring as hell movie, but if you're looking for historical accuracy in a hollywood epic there aren't many that are better.

You're absolutely insane.

 

[ManaByte]

You're absolutely insane.

Like I said, it's boring as hell. But the movie's like a fucking Alexander the Great text book filmed. Stone was also very careful to not flat out say that Alexander was poisoned in the end as the movie leaves it open to either be malaria (or some other disease he caught in the jungles of India) or poisoning.

 

[xabre]

The Back to the Future with the flying train.

 

[VisionaryQuest0]

I always loved this movie

 

[Ash Housewares]

Here is an old one but its good(VERY long though) If you have any interest in Roman history this is a great movie as it shows the beginnings of the Roman Empire from Augustus to Nero.

I, Cladius

I, Claudius is fantastic

most of the other stuff mentioned here smells, so I'll try and help some

PATTON

BRIDGE ON THE RIVER KWAI

LAWRENCE OF ARABIA

 

[jett]

nah, you shouldn't. Frankly, I'm a little sick of all dose overstuffed epics myself. I haven't even seen the most recentl spate of them. Some good ones would be...

You rag on TLS and "overstuffed epics" and then you go ahead and recommend one of Zhang Yimou's latest visual diarrheas? Puh-leez.

p.s.

ftw, bitches.

 

[pestul]

Although Braveheart is one of my favorite films for visual impact and storytelling.. it is also shameful for the way they portrayed Scotland's greatest hero Robert 'the' Bruce. Wikipedia goes over all the historical innaccuaricies (as it turns out, pretty much everything).

 

[Eric P]

i love stuff like El Cid, I, Claudius, Spartacus, Ben Hur, the greatest story ever told (does this count?), lawrence of arabia, dr zhivago, the vikings, etc.

the classic old school hollywood stuff.

not really a fan of the more modern takes, save Dances With Wolves, but I don't think i could ever watch that movie again.

 

[whytemyke]

This is not a joke post.

It may be boring, but it's by far the most historically accurate "epic". It's almost a documentary it's so dead on to the original texts about Alexander. The attention to detail is so great, they actually went to some of the original stories that described (in pretty great detail) Alexander's mannerisms such as how he would tilt his head; and Farrel recreates those.

It may be a boring as hell movie, but if you're looking for historical accuracy in a hollywood epic there aren't many that are better.

First person to post Braveheart needs to hit the books.

this movie was horrible and wasn't even all that accurate, unless we're going to start painting all heroes of the old world as glorious, great men and we can get away with it.

if that's the case, someone call Ivan the Terrible... we'll get Stone to do a biopic.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4184528

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

Lots of great films mentioned here.

My thoughts on Alexander, after sitting down to watch it for the first time a month or so back are that it wasn't as bad as I expected. At least not for the first half or two thirds. Perhaps it was because I had such low expectations, but I didn't hate it as much as I thought I would. At least not until the last third of the movie, when it really started falling apart for me. Plus, even though it was already long, they skipped over so much. Alexander probably needs an HBO series like Rome to really do it justice.

Speaking of Rome, it's awesome. Anyone who hasn't seen it, needs to. I'm not sure if the DVD's are out yet, but put them on your list ASAP.

Finally, one recommendation for a lesser known, great film, that isn't really an epic, but that I still enjoy is Dangerous Beauty. I've seen it several times and I enjoy it quite a bit.

 

[Rei_Toei]

There are too much interesting historical events / large battles yet to be used in movies, but one I'd really love to see is the Battle of Tours in 732, where European forces were led by Charles Martel. Basically, he defeated an enormous Arab army that until then had owned any European army before it. It's interesting because the Arab conquest from the South was stopped at Tours, and because the army Martel led was build up by units from various countries, making it somewhat of an historical inspiration for current European leaders that try to promote the integration of Europe's defence forces.

More here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tours
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Martel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Andalus

 

[Phranky]

The first is also the best:

No, it's actually the most racist.

 

[KingGondo]

Master and Commander is probably my favorite, although I'm not sure it can be called an epic.

Braveheart is entertaining, but parts of it are laughable (Wallace's original love interest), and the depiction of the two sides is pretty sickening (Wallace's Scots are lovable, huggable, kilt-wearing fluffballs, while the English and their Scottish allies are 100% evil).

For the record, I really enjoyed Kingdom of Heaven, and plan on picking up the Director's Cut. Ridley Scott's the man, bitches!

 

[Solid]

For the record, I really enjoyed Kingdom of Heaven, and plan on picking up the Director's Cut. Ridley Scott's the man, bitches!

Wth there's a directors cut coming? fuck i knew it, you cant buy any dvd within 2 years cause they'll release a better version.

 

[Prospero]

Wth there's a directors cut coming? fuck i knew it, you cant buy any dvd within 2 years cause they'll release a better version.

May 23--a four-disc set.

 

[Solid]

May 23--a four-disc set.

Damn I'm a sucker for re-releases. Time to sell off the regular edition. Thanks for the heads up guys.

 

[Templar Wizard]

Those of you who mentioned The Last Samurai, have not seen Shogun.
TLS is a pos compared, and you learn Japanese along with the main character, not in some hokey montage.