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The Issue Of Subtitles

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Jay-B said:
I didn't even realize it was an issue until I spoke to americans who said they wouldn't go see a movie if it wasn't dubbed. It's not as good as understanding the language because it sort of spoils some of the dialogue, but you get used to it.
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A friend of mine from work loves films from Asia and mainland Europe, as he puts it, "I don't know who the Tom Cruise or George Clooney of France and German are, do I have no expectation when I see an actor for the first time on screen" plus he thinks that non English film are more willing to take risks (in regards to story, sex and violence) so they will stand our more.
 
People don't like to read books so I don't expect them to read subtitles. You'll commonly hear people say, "I don't want to read while watching a film."
 
With anime in particular, I used to favor dubs because I would watch them with my brother or dad on the big screen. However, since I've started watching them on my PC, I've been able to get used to subs by adjusting the height and level of the monitor. This broadened my range to shows that didn't have dubs (or had bad ones), and also helped me grow quite fond of the Japanese language.

Now I watch old films like some of Jackie Chan's with subtitles and I love it. I don't hear cheesy dubs and I'm able to follow the story better because I'm more attentive. I'm so used to it now that I have a hard time not reading subs even when they're speaking English.

No disrespect to dubbers at all, and there are still shows I prefer to see dub (FMA being the main one). But you're definitely missing part of the work if you watch a dub, so I think subs would be the preferred route unless you're watching in a group.
 
The place where dubs are always better than subs are animated movies. Disney used to do the best dubbing of them all, sometimes even coming up with better lyrics for some of the songs as they went through translation.
 
Acorn said:
They subtitle some Scottish shows down south lol, accents/local variations of language are a problem for a lot of people.
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I once saw Trainspotting in a cinema in NYC and it had subtitles, as 95% of people outside Scotland find it hard to understand the Scottish accent. Though I do find that most Irish people can understand it, but could be down to both our cultures being Celtic and never being invaded by the Romans.
 
The ironic thing about people refusing to read subtitles is that they're missing out on some of the best movies/directors currently being made/working right now. I'd rather read brilliance than watch shit.
 
I've never gone for a dub over subtitles but when I watch something subtitled I can tell that I'm definitely harming the visuals for myself. It's a shame, but what can you do?
 
pauljeremiah said:
I once saw Trainspotting in a cinema in NYC and it had subtitles, as 95% of people outside Scotland find it hard to understand the Scottish accent. Though I do find that most Irish people can understand it, but could be down to both our cultures being Celtic and never being invaded by the Romans.
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Its partially because we tend to use a lot of slang, hell a lot of people from Glasgow have difficulties with the Edinburgh accent/slang. I had never heard some of the slang before in Trainspotting because I had spent my entire life on the West coast of Scotland. Aberdeen has a a lot of weird slang too.
 
ThisWreckage said:
People don't like to read books so I don't expect them to read subtitles. You'll commonly hear people say, "I don't want to read while watching a film."
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Its true for even video game news and reviews, nobody wants to read a review anymore, now we watch. Same with guides and walkthroughs, why read a walk through on GameFaqs when you can just type "________ walk through part 1" on YouTube
 
Subtitles are so much better than dubs in my experience. Even dubs that other people think are good, if I compare them with the original voices, it sounds like they're missing something subtly (and oftentimes, not so subtly).
NZer said:
Subtitles are fine, but English subtitles for English films drive me insane. A friend of mine prefers to watch with them on (she says she sometimes misses mumbly dialogue), and I just can't deal with it for some reason. I read it and then wait for them to say it, ruining the flow of the dialogue.
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haha, I do this (put subs on everything). It drives me nuts if they aren't synced near perfectly though, then they have to be turned off.
 
Cyport said:
I'm deaf, I need subtitles to enjoy films just as much as hearing people. The UK is very good for giving us options to have subtitles on TV and in the cinema as well as on DVDs and Blu-Rays. The same can't be said for all online services although it has been improving recently
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Concur. I have been hard of hearing my whole life so any visual medium benefits from subtitles for me. Turning up the volume is not a solution. I do understand where for films it can be a true detriment to the viewing for some people though. Especially those who have poor reading comprehension or are not able to read "quickly". Perhaps due to having read them for so long, I do not feel I am fixated on trying to read the words. Thus, missing out on parts of the film as others have noted. My peripheral vision is well adapted to seeing what needs to be seen. Generally speaking, as long as the subtitles are framed properly, viewers don't miss much as the majority of what the film maker wants you to see is contained within the "center" (term used loosely) of the screen.

One issue I DO have with subtitles is the font chosen and the color they choose.Some of those choices ruin the film even for people that don't normally have an issue with subtitles.
 
ABXY said:
With anime in particular, I used to favor dubs because I would watch them with my brother or dad. But since I started to do so on my PC, I've broadened my range to shows that haven't been or wont be translated. By adjusting the viewing height of my monitor, I got used to watching subs, and grew quite fond of the Japanese language because of it.

Now I watch old films like some of Jackie Chan's with subtitles and I love it. I don't hear cheesy dubs and I'm able to follow the story better because I'm more attentive. I'm so used to it now that I have a hard time not reading subs even when they're speaking English.

No disrespect to dubbers at all, and there are still shows I prefer to see dub (FMA being the main one). But you're definitely missing part of the work if you watch a dub, so I think subs would be the preferred route unless you're watching in a group.
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The weird thing about Kung Fu films from the 70s and early 80s is that they were filmed without sound, because it was cheaper. Then all the sound effects and dialogue was dubbed in later, hence why you have same 4 or 5 punch or kick sound effects.

If you watch original Cantonese dub of Way of the Dragon, all of the English speaking roles were dubbed by Bruce Lee, while the UK/US dub had different people doing different voice dubs
 
I almost always prefer dub over sub because when i do get time to watch movies i want to sit back, relax and enjoy it. I don't want to read while watching.

Don't get me wrong i own plenty of foreign movies that i have watched in it's native language with subtitles it's just most of the time i don't want to have to read. I just want to watch the movie.
 
Zoc said:
Dubbing is literally Hitler. I don't even understand why it exists.
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Born and raised on subtitles (nothing is dubbed here in Sweden, except for children's movies), so I have absolutely no issues with them. Reading subtitles is no effort for me, it just comes naturally. I have no difficulties watching a movie in English without them and still understanding everything, but if they are there I'll turn them on (Swedish or English) to make sure I don't miss any dialogue.
 
Into said:
Its true for even video game news and reviews, nobody wants to read a review anymore, now we watch. Same with guides and walkthroughs, why read a walk through on GameFaqs when you can just type "________ walk through part 1" on YouTube
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Urgh the video guide phenomenon annoys me, for example recently I was looking up CIV 5 Strategies for the new dlc and most of them right now are videos. I don't have time to watch a 1hr long video when I could read the actual content of the guide in 5-10 minutes.
 
Being honest here, I'm just so used to subtitles that I feel uneasy when I don't have them on. They're a part of the movie for me, any movie, even movies on my own language (Spanish). I don't even need them now, as I understand spoken English and Japanese perfectly fine (I watch plenty of shows and movies on those 2 languages). But still, I feel something's lacking when they are not there.

Silly, I know.
 
I like subs for the preservation of the original work but as someone who appreciates cinematography and delivery, it kind of ruins how I watch movies. I spend the whole time staring at the lower portion of the screen and not taking in the scenes. I'm also a fast reader so I always feel like I'm too far ahead of the action. Not that I won't watch movies with subtitles, far from it, it just makes me watch movies differently.
 
RoadHazard said:
Born and raised on subtitles (nothing is dubbed here in Sweden, except for children's movies), so I have absolutely no issues with them. Reading subtitles is no effort for me, it just comes naturally. I have no difficulties watching a movie in English without them and still understanding everything, but if they are there I'll turn them on (Swedish or English) to make sure I don't miss any dialogue.
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Swede too and yes everything is subbed.
Blows me away how its almost all dubbed in Poland, France, Germany and could have happened here too. I do think that having subbed movies helped with learning english.
I always watch in the original language with subs, even anime that some people like dubbed.
I even turn it on for English and Swedish movies too as they mumble sometimes/a lot.

Grown up with subs - no problemo
 
Subtitles can be problematic in case of multiple speakers, overlapping dialogue, dialogue/narration when something important is happening on screen (eg. montages or quick cuts which may contain a lot of visual information where you simultaneously need to read as well) or even in general as visuals are so important in films. So I don't think they're ideal unless the film has sparse amounts of dialogue but I do prefer it to dubbing.

I remeber reading somewhere it's almost impossible to follow Godard's Histoire du cinéma unless one understands french.
 
I've absoloutly no problem with subtitles. As a native english speaker i'd be missing out on so many Brilliant foreign films like City of God, A Separation,The Apu trilogy and many more.
 
Window said:
Subtitles can be problematic in case of multiple speakers, overlapping dialogue, dialogue/narration when something important is happening on screen (eg. montages or quick cuts which may contain a lot of visual information where you simultaneously need to read as well) or even in general as visuals are so important in films. So I don't think they're ideal unless the film has sparse amounts of dialogue but I do prefer it to dubbing.

I remeber reading somewhere it's almost impossible to follow Godard's Histoire du cinéma unless one understands french.
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I have noticed that they are adding a - in front of a sentence when there is over lapping dialogue.
 
pauljeremiah said:
I have noticed that they are adding a - in front of a sentence when there is over lapping dialogue.
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I meant multiple speakers at the same time. Doesn't happen too often but it's difficult to follow when it does despite the '-'. Rapid fire exchanges can be a bit rough too though.
 
Window said:
Subtitles can be problematic in case of multiple speakers, overlapping dialogue, dialogue/narration when something important is happening on screen (eg. montages or quick cuts which may contain a lot of visual information where you simultaneously need to read as well) or even in general as visuals are so important in films. So I don't think they're ideal unless the film has sparse amounts of dialogue but I do prefer it to dubbing.

I remeber reading somewhere it's almost impossible to follow Godard's Histoire du cinéma unless one understands french.
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Yea I've watched some really terrible subs, and (no offense) a lot of the Asian cast can sound the same at times if they're off-screen or something.

Good subs have different voices in different color text and don't put them all at the bottom, which is easier to follow than if they're at opposite poles of the screen. Beyond that, you may just have to pause it or rewind to reread (which you often do in a book anyway).
 
My main concern with subtitles is the fact that I can read what the person is about to say before he even says it. It is like I am a mind reader.
 
If it were up to my wife everything would be dubbed into Tagalog. She tolerates subs only if its her Korean Dramas. But dubbed in Tagalog is her preference.

Nope not anime though, when we watch anime it HAS to be in english at the very least. She'll sub Korean Dramas, but not anime.

For american movies she relies on me to translate everything that happens because she doesn't really follow a lot of the dialog, she prefers it when I summarizes what happens, which annoys me because half the time when she asks why something is happening, its always the same reply for me: just wait, usually weird things are revealed later, its setting up for it. It really sucks when she misses cultural jokes or play on dialog, but then again that usually happens to me when we watch Tagalog comedies, I feel like I'm a dumb dumb because I don't get it half the time, and a lot of the time its clever word play in Tagalog that I'm not hip to.

As for me? Eh depends. With anime I grew up watching dubs in the 80s like Robotech and crap and then subs in the 90s in high school when fansubs could be circulated. . Usually a prefer the subs, mostly because of Canadians. But of course a shitty sub is a shitty sub. I remember Kenshin fansubs and there was one group that threw in F bombs and shits and crap for the hell of it and it was very distracting. I guess I like to try to watch both versions if I really like the show or movie.

For foreign movies, like say Pans Labyrinth, I don't think I'd like to see an english dub of it. Maybe its the stigma of watching a lot of old kung fu flicks and they just sound so silly. Or compare the sub vs the dub of Riki-Oh. The voice actors sound ridiculous. Since I don't speak any chinese dialect, I can not notice if they're a shitty actor. Sometimes dubbing can be fun, like What's Up Tiger Lily? :p but of course that was intentional.
 
Subtitles shouldn't work in practice. It sounds weird to read a bunch of text and watch a movie at the same time but...it works. Really well a lot of the time. A lot of anime works better with it too due to the superior voice actor's and actresses.
 
Mr_Zombie said:
Voice over is more or less tolerable, since you still hear actors' original voices. The problem with voice-overs is that they are sometimes either completely devoid of emotions or, even worse, tries too much to be as emotional as characters in the movie. Almost all foreign movies and shows that are in TV are with voice-over.
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Wouldn't voice over be the most invasive though and change the dynamic of all of the sounds?

I've never heard it though, so maybe it's not as bad as it sounds.
 
I have no problem with it, but I was working at a Hollywood Video when Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon came out on video and got to experience firsthand the outrage of dub-only people when confronted with subs. We carried bilingual DVD, a bunch of dub VHS, and a bunch of sub VHS. Even explaining to people that they'd picked the subtitles version didn't get through their heads they'd have to read--they'd come back wanting to know why it wasn't like the version they/a friend saw in theaters. And if we were out of the rubber version at that point, they got irate. DVD was the greatest thing ever in that respect. One version, both options.
 
SamVimes said:
I'm in Italy. When i say that i watch movies in their original language i'm considered the odd one.
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Bu..bu.. we have the best dubbers in the world! :(

This bullshit needs to stop, unfortunately the lie I reported on the previous line is spouted so often that everyone gulps it down. I don't even see a subtitles culture in young people, so I don't have much hope about this situation changing. Thank God for dvds with multiple languages in both audio and subtitles :D
 
Subtitles >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dubs

The only dubs I like are the ones in Disney/Pixar movies. They're pretty good and sound reasonably close to the original voices. The rest = blegh.
 
I have subtitles on for every movie. If there were an option for subtitled theater releases I'd go see those.
 
Subs if the film wasn't shot in English. Dubs are almost always horrible and it detracts from the original feeling and direction of the film imho. There are only a few dubs I can stomach, but most are anime films or TV shows. Even when given the option of good dubs, I'll take subs any day of the week with the exception of Cowboy Bebop.

Not exactly sure why people have issues with subs in the first place unless they have trouble reading a watching a scene at the same time.
 
I refuse to watch anything dubbed. Subtitles aren't perfect, but they're so, so, so much better... it's not even remotely close. I understand kids movies being dubbed, that's it. It's not that hard to read subtitles.
 
NZer said:
Subtitles are fine, but English subtitles for English films drive me insane. A friend of mine prefers to watch with them on (she says she sometimes misses mumbly dialogue), and I just can't deal with it for some reason. I read it and then wait for them to say it, ruining the flow of the dialogue.
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Once you get used to it, it's really hard to watch it any other way; because it will always feel like you might be missing something. Instead of understanding like 80% of spoken dialogue, you could understand almost 100%.
 
javac said:
Some are great. Cowboy Bebop always comes to mind as one of the best in regards to anime.
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The english dub? Oh lord.

I started watching CB last week and I had to immediately switch to the japanese subbed version. Damn that shit is hilariously bad.

Maybe it's because I usually never watch anime that my standards haven't lowered yet, but if that's an example of a good dub then i'm out.
 
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