sixteen-bit
Member
My post was referring to live-action film. Sorry for the confusion.
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The Issue Of Subtitles
- Thread starter pauljeremiah
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My post was referring to live-action film. Sorry for the confusion.
pauljeremiah
Gold Member
What about The Good, The Bad and The Ugly? That's dubbed and remains awesome.
Interesting point
cutmeamango
Banned
Subtitles for movies and tv shows, good dubs for cartoons.
Can't substitute the speech from the acting, they may even make a great or excellent job, but it isn't the same. IT ISN'T THE SAME.
Can't substitute the speech from the acting, they may even make a great or excellent job, but it isn't the same. IT ISN'T THE SAME.
Soodanim
Member
My parents despise subtitles. I often watch things with them on. There are some things, important or not, that just aren't clear enough.
I know this isn't Gaming, but I always have them on in games too. It's especially needed when a game has sound that you can't hear if you're not directly in front of the source, and I've even seen the camera pull away (cutscenes) while a character is talking, so you literally miss half the words without subtitles.
I know this isn't Gaming, but I always have them on in games too. It's especially needed when a game has sound that you can't hear if you're not directly in front of the source, and I've even seen the camera pull away (cutscenes) while a character is talking, so you literally miss half the words without subtitles.
I usually hate dubs. I can't stand the out of sync sound to lip movements. Some exceptions are cartoons that aren't well made enough that the lips sync.
If it is an english movie I prefer having the english subs on and mostly read it if there is something which was hard to hear. With movies in other languages I have the swedish sub on though.
If it is an english movie I prefer having the english subs on and mostly read it if there is something which was hard to hear. With movies in other languages I have the swedish sub on though.
I do the same for games. Subtitles all the way. Guess just too used to reading in my games and I read faster than people talk.
I have zero problem with it, though I do watch anime dubs if it is legitimately better than the original (i.e. Cowboy Bebop). I think that if there was a bigger marketing push towards movies with subtitles, it wouldn't be a problem. Films like Crouching Tiger, Passion of the Christ, and Hero all were very successful in America and were fully subtitled.
No problem here. Indeed, I suspect the UK in general is becoming a bit more accepting of subtitles in the television space what with the recent small boom in imported European drama.
LQX
Member
I have no problems watching a movie with subtitles but I so fucking hate the attitude some have that if you don't enjoy doing that then you must be a fucking idiot.
And I think dubbing sometimes help foreign movies. I started watching old Kung-Fu movies in their original languages and so many of them lost their magic. I just could not sit through many of them. The British dubs made them better.
Also, I think Disney does fantastic job and dubbing Misaki films most of which I prefer the Disney dub.
And I think dubbing sometimes help foreign movies. I started watching old Kung-Fu movies in their original languages and so many of them lost their magic. I just could not sit through many of them. The British dubs made them better.
Also, I think Disney does fantastic job and dubbing Misaki films most of which I prefer the Disney dub.
No man! The dub is amazing! Steve Blum is the best! Seriously it's full of love and character. Your the first person I've heard having an issue with it but hey your watching bebop so that's all that matters.
Seriously give the dub a chance all the way through. It's one of the best. I really see no issue with it at all. And no that's not due to low standards. It's pretty unanimous. unless you think every anime fan has bad taste
Them voices become nestled in your head for years to come.
Ah no problem! Live action dubs are pretty bad I agree!
Kitsunebaby
Member
I grew up watching anime. Of course I'm fine with subtitles. It's better than dubs the majority of the time.
I think my huge intake of subtitled media as a kid even helped make me a speed-reader.
I think my huge intake of subtitled media as a kid even helped make me a speed-reader.
pauljeremiah
Gold Member
True, plus the growth of Bollywood films in UK cinemas too
LSauchelli
Member
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I hate weaboo subtitles.
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
I have no problem with subtitles, dubbing on the other hand, I hate it.
I rather not watch a movie if it's dubbed. The only exceptions are some animated movies, but no dubbed live action.
I rather not watch a movie if it's dubbed. The only exceptions are some animated movies, but no dubbed live action.
No man! The dub is amazing! Steve Blum is the best! Seriously it's full of love and character. Your the first person I've heard having an issue with it but hey your watching bebop so that's all that matters.
Seriously give the dub a chance all the way through. It's one of the best. I really see no issue with it at all. And no that's not due to low standards. It's pretty unanimous. unless you think every anime fan has bad taste
Them voices become nestled in your head for years to come.
I switched to japanese after 4/5 minutes maximum. The voices just sounded completely out of character and terrible. I couldn't deal with it.
pauljeremiah
Gold Member
Disney do the dubs for the US market, Studio Canel do the dubs for Europe. Before it was Disney for both markets but since Arrietty it's seprete dubs for seprete markets.
The UK dub of Arrietty has Mark Strong and Saoirse Ronan. While the US dub by Disney has Will Arnett and Bridgit Mendler.
I use subtitles with any film.
I always or almost always watch in original language than dubs.
I prefer films in a language that I understand than not, there is something annoying in paying constant attention to subtitles and languages foreign to me. While I put subtitles in all films I watch, it feels less concentration needed and more relaxing experience to watch films without needing to pay constant attention to subitltes.
Still I watch several foreign films and I even have an anime avatar. Good is good and enjoyable in any language but there is something annoying about it. As for why always choosing not dubs, I think dubs tend to sound less natural and fiting for the character and with worse performance than those given in the original language. That is far more annoying than foreign language + subtitles.
I always or almost always watch in original language than dubs.
I prefer films in a language that I understand than not, there is something annoying in paying constant attention to subtitles and languages foreign to me. While I put subtitles in all films I watch, it feels less concentration needed and more relaxing experience to watch films without needing to pay constant attention to subitltes.
Still I watch several foreign films and I even have an anime avatar. Good is good and enjoyable in any language but there is something annoying about it. As for why always choosing not dubs, I think dubs tend to sound less natural and fiting for the character and with worse performance than those given in the original language. That is far more annoying than foreign language + subtitles.
Art Teitlebaum
Member
If you want to concentrate on the visuals and the cinematography of a film, subtitles are quite problematic. Your view is always dragged to the bottom of the screen.
But of course this is still better than a terrible dub.
But of course this is still better than a terrible dub.
Wrong. Film is an audiovisual medium, and sound is just as important, which the dub usually messes with.
Just watch the movie again if you really want to concentrate on the image the second time around.
Zoe
Member
Yep. It used to be for convenience. Now it's a crutch.
The German voice actor of Arnold Schwarzenegger is also the voice actor of Sylvester Stallone. Which lead to quite a hilarious scene, when both of them appeared in the same movie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2aubkwLrQ8
But at the same time it also shows that a talented voice actor is able to speak two characters differently enough that you wouldn't neccessarily realize the voice actors double role if you don't know it already. Also, Bruce Willis' German voice is pretty badass, handsdown.
If possible, listening to a movie in its original language is always a good idea, but I don't agree that dubs are the evil. It's an art form in itself -- there quite a few bad ones, but also a lot which are great. Sometimes it can actually add something to the movie, since you can cast voice actors more specifically to fit a certain role. With the actor's original voice you don't have a lot of wiggle room in that regard.
Yeah, I had to enable subtitles on Dark Knight Rises because of Bane. I got used to Batman somewhat, but Bane? What were they thinking.
I'm hard of hearing so I need it, it does kinda ruin the next line because you can see what they will say but otherwise I'd be confused
The only time I've enjoyed a dub was watching Kung-Fu films growing up, and that was only because the actors were so laughably bad (Prodigal Son and Drunken Master spring to mind). Even so, I still much prefer the original versions with subtitles - I find Cantonese an amazing language to listen to.
What I find truly bizarre is that some American TV (news reports and documentaries mainly) has used subtitles for overseas English speakers. I could understand if the speech was riddled with non-native slang, but just a different accent? Do US people really find it that hard to understand English/Aussies/South Africans?
What I find truly bizarre is that some American TV (news reports and documentaries mainly) has used subtitles for overseas English speakers. I could understand if the speech was riddled with non-native slang, but just a different accent? Do US people really find it that hard to understand English/Aussies/South Africans?
Zoe
Member
Yes. Most people didn't grow up hearing other accents.
Wiktor
Member
There's no such thing as good dub, at least outside of animated movies.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Sounds like Alan Partridge doing Sean Connery. Everytime he punched Batman I heard Alan Partridge going "A-ha!". Stupid move on their part.
dinazimmerman
Incurious Bastard
i even watch english films with subtitles. come at me bro
pauljeremiah
Gold Member
Here's just something I've noticed over the years,
People who watch dubbed versions of film are considered the average filmgoers
People who prefer to have the original language plus subtitles are considered cinephiles and film snobs
People who watch dubbed anime are considered anime fans
People who prefer the original Japanese plus subtitles are seen as super nerdy/ anime snobs
People who watch dubbed versions of film are considered the average filmgoers
People who prefer to have the original language plus subtitles are considered cinephiles and film snobs
People who watch dubbed anime are considered anime fans
People who prefer the original Japanese plus subtitles are seen as super nerdy/ anime snobs
sixteen-bit
Member
It's good for understanding muffled dialogue so I can understand.
UltimaPooh
Member
No I don't mind watching movies with subtitles.
One negative about subtitles is that when action oriented scenes happen and there is dialogue I will miss out on some of the on screen action.
One negative about subtitles is that when action oriented scenes happen and there is dialogue I will miss out on some of the on screen action.
I dislike subtitles. I turn them off wherever I can (Games often have them on by default - OFF!) I won't not watch a foreign film because it has subtitles - I can't hold that against the film and it deserves a view just as much as anything else does, but I do have a problem with it. Here's why.
By watching a foreign film with subtitles as opposed to actually understanding what they're saying, I'm dis-servicing the film for a few reasons. One, the filmmakers have constructed the movie from the ground up to be both visual and aural. When I'm watching a film with subtitles I spend a huge portion of the film just reading text. A whole bunch of the stuff that's designed to be aural is being shoved into the visual pool and it unbalances everything. There isn't time to take in the cinematography, the subtle facial expressions, action etc. I've heard many people say 'You get faster at reading after a while.' It doesn't matter how fast I am. It still takes time. The director has allowed a shot to linger for just the right amount of time for your eyes to take it in. If I'm reading text during that, I can't consume those visuals. And I know this happens to me. Films like Amelie, Pan's Labyrinth - when I picture them in my head, the visuals, as strong as they were, aren't as imprinted as other western movies. And I know that's because I didn't spend as much time with them. All of those gorgeous shots, interplay between actors - I missed so much of it because I was constantly keeping up reading the words on the screen.
The second problem is just a matter of trying to gather subtle emotion from someone speaking in a foreign language. Obviously I can see if an actor is crying onscreen, or getting emotional and furious, but subtle inflections, emphasis and weight on certain words and slight emotional jolts in their speaking is going to be absolutely lost on me. It becomes far more difficult to read an actor. To see if they're lying or covering something up. With the added bonus of the first point where I'm just flat out going to be missing 30% of their facial expressions anyway because I'm reading text, it feels as though I'm missing out on a whole lot of an actor's performance. I honestly don't understand how English-only speakers can pass judgement on a foreign actor's performance. I just can't consume the performance to even begin critiquing it.
By watching a foreign film with subtitles as opposed to actually understanding what they're saying, I'm dis-servicing the film for a few reasons. One, the filmmakers have constructed the movie from the ground up to be both visual and aural. When I'm watching a film with subtitles I spend a huge portion of the film just reading text. A whole bunch of the stuff that's designed to be aural is being shoved into the visual pool and it unbalances everything. There isn't time to take in the cinematography, the subtle facial expressions, action etc. I've heard many people say 'You get faster at reading after a while.' It doesn't matter how fast I am. It still takes time. The director has allowed a shot to linger for just the right amount of time for your eyes to take it in. If I'm reading text during that, I can't consume those visuals. And I know this happens to me. Films like Amelie, Pan's Labyrinth - when I picture them in my head, the visuals, as strong as they were, aren't as imprinted as other western movies. And I know that's because I didn't spend as much time with them. All of those gorgeous shots, interplay between actors - I missed so much of it because I was constantly keeping up reading the words on the screen.
The second problem is just a matter of trying to gather subtle emotion from someone speaking in a foreign language. Obviously I can see if an actor is crying onscreen, or getting emotional and furious, but subtle inflections, emphasis and weight on certain words and slight emotional jolts in their speaking is going to be absolutely lost on me. It becomes far more difficult to read an actor. To see if they're lying or covering something up. With the added bonus of the first point where I'm just flat out going to be missing 30% of their facial expressions anyway because I'm reading text, it feels as though I'm missing out on a whole lot of an actor's performance. I honestly don't understand how English-only speakers can pass judgement on a foreign actor's performance. I just can't consume the performance to even begin critiquing it.
I can't judge an actor's performance if I can't hear his real voice.
Soodanim
Member
I completely forgot about TDKR. I probably understood about half of his lines in the whole film. Prime example of why subtitles are needed - audio editors can't be trusted.
One of the main problems with dubs is that whatever the character is saying must last exactly the same amount of time it takes him to say the original line, and that's how we get lines shortened, or words are added, or sometimes the original phrase is completely changed. While subtitles still have to fit in two lines of text, it's easier to translate the original intent of the line that way.
You're right. I'm not calling to have the actor dubbed either. That'd probably be worse. I'm just saying it's an unfortunate situation and it is a problem.
I don't, but that's because I need subtitles for everything. What pisses me off is English speaking movies not including English subtitles (or hell, subtitles at all) in some films.
Want to watch "the Girlfriend Experience" because someone recommended it to you? Too bad, deaf person! Get the fuck out!
Good news! If your theater has them, Sony has had subtitle glasses for a while. Problem I've had with them is they're EXTREMELY huge and a little awkward to wear, but I watched the Avengers in a theater after not having been in a movie theater in a good ten years with them.
In fact I'm planning to go see "the Wolverine" in theaters with them again.
Want to watch "the Girlfriend Experience" because someone recommended it to you? Too bad, deaf person! Get the fuck out!
Zhengi said:
Good news! If your theater has them, Sony has had subtitle glasses for a while. Problem I've had with them is they're EXTREMELY huge and a little awkward to wear, but I watched the Avengers in a theater after not having been in a movie theater in a good ten years with them.
In fact I'm planning to go see "the Wolverine" in theaters with them again.
That is pretty awesome. I'll check to see if they have them. I was definitely planning on seeing The Wolverine this weekend as well.
pauljeremiah
Gold Member
I do think u make some very interesting points but I cannot write u a full reply at the moment, will do so when I get home from work tonight.
Hmmm. The Japanese voices sound out of character to me lol
The show and it's characters seem more western to me. The voices fit the appearance and mannerisms perfectly. To be fair the first couple of eps are always rusty at first. It'd make sense. It takes time for the voice actor's to warm up into the role and to muster up chemistry. By the end you love each character as if you've known them for years.
Give it a try from start to end one day! You'll learn to love it. But to be fair you can't go wrong. I vastly prefer the dub but I can live with the sub easily.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Eh I don't mind dubbed as long as it's good.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
The movie industry is tough enough, and yeah there definitely is a large percentage of American movie-goers that do not enjoy subtitles, and will actually avoid movies because of it.
Remember when Pan's Labyrinth came out a couple years ago, Spanish language film with English subtitles? Some Walmarts had to add big signs "warning" people of that fact because they were getting a bunch of returns and complaints from people that would blind buy it and were getting upset.
Subtitles require time for people to adapt too. If you're not experienced with them, it can be detrimental to your watching experience. But if you've been exposed to them long enough, you literally don't even start to notice anymore. Somebody asked me if Only God Forgives had subtitles since it took place in Thailand, and I had to think about it for a couple seconds. "Yeah, I guess it does. Pretty sure."
I will almost always pick subbed over dubbed. And for me it isn't even about being picky and snobby or wanting the original blah blah blah. Dubbed movies just have a habit of coming off as really goofy.
All that being said, I don't really have a problem with American remakes. No matter how much praise a film is getting, there are just people who will avoid it until it is actually being spoken in their language in a natural way. I enjoyed Let the Right One In. I watched 45 minutes of Let Me In and just turned it off. The differences just didn't justify me watching the remake anymore, and all I was doing was comparing it to the original in my head. I had the same experience with The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. I finished all of it, but I was bored the entire time.
Remember when Pan's Labyrinth came out a couple years ago, Spanish language film with English subtitles? Some Walmarts had to add big signs "warning" people of that fact because they were getting a bunch of returns and complaints from people that would blind buy it and were getting upset.
Subtitles require time for people to adapt too. If you're not experienced with them, it can be detrimental to your watching experience. But if you've been exposed to them long enough, you literally don't even start to notice anymore. Somebody asked me if Only God Forgives had subtitles since it took place in Thailand, and I had to think about it for a couple seconds. "Yeah, I guess it does. Pretty sure."
I will almost always pick subbed over dubbed. And for me it isn't even about being picky and snobby or wanting the original blah blah blah. Dubbed movies just have a habit of coming off as really goofy.
All that being said, I don't really have a problem with American remakes. No matter how much praise a film is getting, there are just people who will avoid it until it is actually being spoken in their language in a natural way. I enjoyed Let the Right One In. I watched 45 minutes of Let Me In and just turned it off. The differences just didn't justify me watching the remake anymore, and all I was doing was comparing it to the original in my head. I had the same experience with The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. I finished all of it, but I was bored the entire time.
DJ_Lae
Member
I'm a little torn at times.
Films are mostly a visual medium and subtitles detract from that. At the same time, dubbing is also distracting.
I find some animated movies to suffer the least from dubbing if it's done properly (Miyazaki's stuff mostly) and then you aren't reading text that's just barfed over top of the fantastic artwork. I think it mostly works because Japanese animation essentially looks like it's dubbed anyway in its original language.
With live action stuff, the dubbing just looks weird and takes me out of the experience. Plus there's that highfalutin part of me that gets a kick out of watching a subtitled movie.
Films are mostly a visual medium and subtitles detract from that. At the same time, dubbing is also distracting.
I find some animated movies to suffer the least from dubbing if it's done properly (Miyazaki's stuff mostly) and then you aren't reading text that's just barfed over top of the fantastic artwork. I think it mostly works because Japanese animation essentially looks like it's dubbed anyway in its original language.
With live action stuff, the dubbing just looks weird and takes me out of the experience. Plus there's that highfalutin part of me that gets a kick out of watching a subtitled movie.
It's easier to dub something that doesn't feature "real" people imo
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