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The King: Elvis Presley vs. Michael Jackson

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While Elvis may have pioneered Rock and Roll, Jacko did likewise with Pop.

And as others have said, Jacko's kinghood is worldwide, not just confined in America.
 
Sir Alemeth said:
While Elvis may have pioneered Rock and Roll, Jacko did likewise with Pop.

And as others have said, Jacko's kinghood is worldwide, not just confined in America.
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What do you mean by pioneered Rock and Roll?
 
Himuro said:
I don't get why people always label Michael Jackson as pop instead of R&B. It's like always labeling Green Day pop because they're popular.
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And why do alot of industry folks label Beyonce's music POP music? I have a reason, but hmmmm.....yeah it's not to nice.
 
1. The fact that micheal jackson invented the moon walk and still can do it to this very day says hi to all the haters.

2.It took pedo claims to knock micheal off his throne.

Elvis became a has been until a comeback special gave him a pulse. Not to mention the drugs factor. :/
 
Elvis could have gone anywhere, and his charisma would have created attention. MJ had to have the right circumstances, though he's still extremely talented. I just think Elvis wins on pure stage presence, and presence takes a bit of prescedent for me when talking nicknames like "The King".

Also, you have to keep in mind the popularity of the 50's which was insane for Elvis. Having people follow his life in the war, his comeback in '67. Then his turn in the 70's. That's 3 decades of huge influence. I don't agree at all with those saying "if he didn't die" to sell their argument. He shown lasting appeal in spades.

In comparison, MJ had success in the Jackson 5 and became a phenomenon with his solo albums in the 80's. But it was far more temporary and a lot of his biggest fans then know he fell off. You don't hear too many Elvis fans talking about his falling off. His 200+ songs and and 21 #1 singles is evidence to that. Thriller was amazing, 7 #1's is awesome. But as far as solo impact and legacy, I give it to Elvis.
 
mckmas8808 said:
And another question could be who influenced more artists? Elvis or Micheal Jackson?
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micheal jackson........... duh

masud said:
Neither was a pioneer (musically at least) they were both just really famous pop stars.
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micheal jackson was the first black artist to ever appear on mtv. AND absolutely owned the 80s to make way for prince and others. pioneer should be on his wiki page. :/
 
J2 Cool said:
Elvis could have gone anywhere and his charisma would have created attention. MJ had to have the right circumstances, though he's extremely talented. I just think Elvis wins on pure stage presence, and presence takes a bit of prescedent for me when talking nicknames like "The King".

Also, you have to keep in mind the popularity of the 50's which was insane for Elvis. Having people follow his life in the war, his comeback in '67. Then his turn in the 70's. That's 3 decades of huge influence. I don't agree at all with those saying "if he didn't die" to sell their argument. He shown lasting appeal in spades.

In comparison, MJ had success in the Jackson 5 and became a phenomenon with his solo albums in the 80's. But it was far more temporary and a lot of his biggest fans then know he fell off. You don't hear too many Elvis fans talking about his falling off. His 200+ songs and and 21 #1 singles is evidence to that. Thriller was amazing, 7 #1's is awesome. But as far as solo impact and legacy, I give it to Elvis.
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You do know that MJ was still killing it in the 90s too right? So that's 70s, 80s, and 90s. Three decades just like Elvis.
 
masud said:
Elvis was not racist clearly, but he did steal music and he became famous largely due to the fact that America was not wiling to listen to black artists singing the same stuff.
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Define "steal music"

Covering a song is not stealing music. Elvis didn't steal shit. He may have popularized other people's songs, but he didn't steal anything. He took a song that he liked and put his own spin on it.

Eric Clapton didn't "steal" I Shot the Sheriff from Bob Marley.

Jimi Hendrix didn't "steal" All Along the Watchtower from Bob Dylan.

The only correct usage of "stealing music" is when Led Zeppelin, Vanilla Ice, and others try to pass off other people's work as their own compositions. Elvis didn't do that.

Sir Alemeth said:
And as others have said, Jacko's kinghood is worldwide, not just confined in America.
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For the umpteenth time, Elvis is not confined to America.

Elvis is a universal name. Say it in any country around the world and people will know who you are talking about.

During the 2002 World Cup a Junkie XL remix of his "A Little Less Conversation" (credited as "Elvis Vs JXL") topped the charts in over twenty countries and was included in a compilation of Presley's U.S. and UK number one hits, Elv1s: 30.
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Sales data from 1970 concerning Suspicious Minds:

US BB 1 - Sep 1969, Canada 1 - Sep 1969, Australia 1 for 3 weeks Jun 1970, Australia Goset 1 - Nov 1969, South Africa 1 of 1969, UK 2 - Nov 1969, Holland 6 - Oct 1969, France 6 - Mar 1970, Germany 8 - Jan 1970, Norway 10 - Feb 1970, Australia 16 of 1969, RYM 19 of 1969, Scrobulate 19 of oldies, Europe 22 of the 1960s, DDD 23 of 1969, POP 26 of 1969, Global 33 (5 M sold) - 1969, US BB 40 of 1969, Poland 40 - Aug 1999, US CashBox 43 of 1969, Acclaimed 60, Rolling Stone 91, WXPN 121, OzNet 156
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MaverickX9 said:
Define "steal music"

Covering a song is not stealing music. Elvis didn't steal shit. He may have popularized other people's songs, but he didn't steal anything. He took a song that he liked and put his own spin on it.

Eric Clapton didn't "steal" I Shot the Sheriff from Bob Marley.

Jimi Hendrix didn't "steal" All Along the Watchtower from Bob Dylan.

The only correct usage of "stealing music" is when Led Zeppelin, Vanilla Ice, and others try to pass off other people's work as their own compositions. Elvis didn't do that.



For the umpteenth time, Elvis is not confined to America.

Elvis is a universal name. Say it in any country around the world and people will know who you are talking about.



Sales data from 1970 concerning Suspicious Minds:
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Basically put (imo) is that Elvis' style (some of it anyways) was birthed by many others that didn't get their due.

At least MJ talked about how James Brown was his idol. And many people knew this information. But with Elvis, lots of people still don't know that Elvis "popularized" unknown people's songs and dances.

Lots of people think Elvis created it himself.
 
I'm sorry but it been known for years that within the 60s white artists would take from there black counterparts. Thats fact. I really don't want to look up the elvis accusations but its been rumored that he did indeed took music from lesser known artists. :/

and micheal jackson absolutely owns him world wide. That shouldn't even be an argument with sells age. :lol
 
mckmas8808 said:
You do know that MJ was still killing it in the 90s too right? So that's 70s, 80s, and 90s. Three decades just like Elvis.
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Yeah, but you can still pinpoint his biggest period in 80's. Elvis was arguably at his height on the bookends, 50's and 70's. And his biggest fans have nothing bad to say about Elvis in any decade, unlike MJ's.
 
mckmas8808 said:
Basically put (imo) is that Elvis' style (some of it anyways) was birthed by many others that didn't get their due.

At least MJ talked about how James Brown was his idol. And many people knew this information. But with Elvis, lots of people still don't know that Elvis "popularized" unknown people's songs and dances.

Lots of people think Elvis created it himself.
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Elvis routinely talked about his influences - Fats Domino, Dean Martin, Bill Monroe, BB King, etc.

He's quite upfront about his influences.

Little Richard said this: "He was an integrator. Elvis was a blessing. They wouldnÂ’t let black music through. He opened the door for black music."

A lot of sources credit Elvis with opening the door for a ton of black musician's. A ton of the great artists from the 60's - Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, John Lennon, etc - were introduced to people like Arthur Crudup and Fats Domino by listening to Elvis Presley.

ari said:
I'm sorry but it been known for years that within the 60s white artists would take from there black counterparts. Thats fact. I really don't want to look up the elvis accusations but its been rumored that he did indeed took music from lesser known artists. :/

and micheal jackson absolutely owns him world wide. That shouldn't even be an argument with sells age.
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You're out of your element ari. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

There is no "fact" that Elvis stole music from lesser known artists. Why? Because there are only a handful of songs that give writing credits to Elvis Presley - mostly songs that were written for him and only him (Heartbreak Hotel, for instance). Every single song he "stole" (according to you) is correctly attributed to its original composer.

Jackson owns him worldwide? Not really. I'm not going to bother retyping everything I posted earlier, so just look at my previous posts concerning Elvis' popularity abroad.

Anybody who thinks Elvis is confined only to America is an idiot.
 
J2 Cool said:
Yeah, but you can still pinpoint his biggest period in 80's. Elvis was arguably at his height on the bookends, 50's and 70's. And his biggest fans have nothing bad to say about Elvis in any decade, unlike MJ's.
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Dude ummmm.......who exactly did Elvis die again?

Himuro said:
I think they like to label certain black music as pop just so it doesnt fall into the R&B category. That's always been my theory.
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Yep. I wasn't going to say it, but that's got to be the main reason. Because hey if Beyonce Rihanna and the likes are straight R&B I just it looks bad to the industry?
 
MaverickX9 said:
A lot of sources credit Elvis with opening the door for a ton of black musician's. A ton of the great artists from the 60's - Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, John Lennon, etc - were introduced to people like Arthur Crudup and Fats Domino by listening to Elvis Presley.
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I'm positive you can say that Micheal jackson done the same thing within his solo career.
 
The whole Elvis argument seems to have morphed from the first page to now. Page 1: He's an innovator! Nobody sounded like him! Page 3: Well yeah his style was copied from poor blacks but he made it mainstream!

Keep moving the goal posts, folks.
 
MaverickX9 said:
Elvis routinely talked about his influences - Fats Domino, Dean Martin, Bill Monroe, BB King, etc.

He's quite upfront about his influences.

Little Richard said this: "He was an integrator. Elvis was a blessing. They wouldnÂ’t let black music through. He opened the door for black music."

A lot of sources credit Elvis with opening the door for a ton of black musician's. A ton of the great artists from the 60's - Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, John Lennon, etc - were introduced to people like Arthur Crudup and Fats Domino by listening to Elvis Presley.
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Hey man I'm not fighting you at all really. I agree with you. But I'm talking about the non-educated Elvis fans. How many people do you think know about Elvis' influences? Seriously?

Just read some Youtube comments on some Elvis videos. Those earlier guys birthed Elvis, then Elvis took it to another stratosphere. But the least some people can do is credit these dudes.

And it's not like these people were fairly beaten out by Elvis either. I mean Elvis just took their song and said "f*ck it I like this $hit. Let me redo it to show respect".

So what happens? All the white people never hear the black version and love the white version soooo much that it makes Elvis a music god.
 
Let's see, Elvis was born white, never raped any children and had a great music career until the day he died.

MJ, born black, had a couple of very good songs, ended up turning white, and is also a pedophile who owns a chimpanzee.

Elvis wins.
 
Teknopathetic said:
The whole Elvis argument seems to have morphed from the first page to now. Page 1: He's an innovator! Nobody sounded like him! Page 3: Well yeah his style was copied from poor blacks but he made it mainstream!

Keep moving the goal posts, folks.
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With all due respect, what's your point? Are you saying that page 1 sucks? Or are you saying page 3 sucks? Oooor are you saying this thread sucks?
 
Teknopathetic said:
The whole Elvis argument seems to have morphed from the first page to now. Page 1: He's an innovator! Nobody sounded like him! Page 3: Well yeah his style was copied from poor blacks but he made it mainstream!

Keep moving the goal posts, folks.
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Huh? Where do you see this?
 
rhavec said:
Let's see, Elvis was born white, never raped any children and had a great music career until the day he died.

MJ, born black, had a couple of very good songs, ended up turning white, and is also a pedophile who owns a chimpanzee.

Elvis wins.
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wat
 
I don't know, I really really like a lot of Michael Jackson's stuff, but it just doesn't feel right when people call him a pioneer or a musical genius or whatever. He doesn't seem to fit that to me.

Maybe it's cause I wasn't actually born when he was at his most famous, but then again, it was the same with The Beatles, Elvis, etc.
 
Even with MJs fallout with all the accusations and botched plastic surgeries his career is still iconic and artists still copies him. Face it, the torch simply passed from Elvis to MJ.
 
mckmas8808 said:
So what happens? All the white people never hear the black version and love the white version soooo much that it makes Elvis a music god.
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I can understand this. Elvis has a lot more media exposure though unfortunately, so that even if you wanted to find out about his influences and become as big a fan of them, you can only get so close. It's hard to find exactly who you blame for that. It gets tossed around between Elvis himself, his fans, white people.
 
J2 Cool said:
I can understand this. Elvis has a lot more media exposure though unfortunately, so that even if you wanted to find out about his influences and become as big a fan of them, you can only get so close. It's hard to find exactly who you blame for that. It gets tossed around between Elvis himself, his fans, white people.
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I put less blame of Elvis. And most blame for the white industry exploiting black music. Elvis was (and his estate) is SUPER FREAKING RICH!!!! But what about these black artist that fathered his career?

How much did they get paid? Do they hold any rights to these songs when they get played on commercials, movies, and TV shows?
 
ari said:
Even with MJs fallout with all the accusations and botched plastic surgeries his career is still iconic and artists still copies him. Face it, the torch simply passed from Elvis to MJ.
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Elvis has been dead for 31 years and his career is still iconic and artists still copy him.

Besides that, I don't think Elvis passed anything to Michael Jackson. Chances are high that Elvis didn't influence Jackson all that much.
 
J2 Cool said:
I can understand this. Elvis has a lot more media exposure though unfortunately, so that even if you wanted to find out about his influences and become as big a fan of them, you can only get so close. It's hard to find exactly who you blame for that. It gets tossed around between Elvis himself, his fans, white people.
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I don't know about that. Earlier in this thread I posted a few of Elvis' more popular songs - both the Elvis version and the version of the original artist.

It is pretty easy to find the original versions of Elvis' early songs. I just don't think people care enough to go out and do it.

Elvis certainly didn't hide the fact that he was singing other people's songs. All the original composers are listed right on the records. Singer-songwriters in mainstream music were a rarity in the 1950s, so it certainly wasn't out of the norm for people to be covering other people's songs.

How much did they get paid? Do they hold any rights to these songs when they get played on commercials, movies, and TV shows?
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I don't notice many of Elvis' Sun records on many movies or TV shows.

Certainly you hear Elvis songs, but most of them are the super mainstream ones - Hound Dog, A Little Less Conversation, Suspicious Minds, Heartbreak Hotel, etc. All of these songs were written by mostly white songwriting teams and sung by Elvis. Hound Dog was written by two Jewish guys, for instance.
 
MaverickX9 said:
Elvis has been dead for 31 years and his career is still iconic and artists still copy him.

Besides that, I don't think Elvis passed anything to Michael Jackson. Chances are high that Elvis didn't influence Jackson all that much.
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Do you know this guy?

chris_brown.png
 
MaverickX9 said:
Ok, but what does that have to do with anything that I said?
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This is what you said....

MaverickX9 said:
Elvis has been dead for 31 years and his career is still iconic and artists still copy him.
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I was pointing out that the same can be said for MJ. Of course the years difference would be changed, but it's not like MJ is still making music or dances anymore.
 
mckmas8808 said:
This is what you said....



I was pointing out that the same can be said for MJ. Of course the years difference would be changed, but it's not like MJ is still making music or dances anymore.
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Yeah, I know that.

I was pointing out to whoever I quoted before that the same can be said about Elvis - the iconic career and people still copying him bit.

That guy said:

Even with MJs fallout with all the accusations and botched plastic surgeries his career is still iconic and artists still copies him. Face it, the torch simply passed from Elvis to MJ.
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antiloop said:
Rock > Pop

Elvis wins.

Really it's no contest.


Suspicious Mind:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SBmAPYkPeYU&feature=related

Jailhouse Rock:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tpzV_0l5ILI&feature=related

Love me Tender:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=HZBUb0ElnNY&feature=related

I didn't even know people liked MJ that much. Surpised me. :)
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Pop>Rock

MJ wins

Really it's no contest

Smooth Criminal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WjOn5TNjBM

Thriller
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WjOn5TNjBM

Don't Stop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_hz2am90Hk&feature=user

See what I did there?
 
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