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The King of Fighters '98 UM Final Edition and 2002 UM possibly heading to Steam soon

alstein

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For those that don't know, they've been implementing new netcode for every steam release they've done. All of them have been decent so far, imo.

didn't Metal Slug 3 use a variant of GGPO? Hopefully that gets into UM- I want to see the GGPO KOF lobbies die due to no longer being needed.
 

ElTopo

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didn't Metal Slug 3 use a variant of GGPO? Hopefully that gets into UM- I want to see the GGPO KOF lobbies die due to no longer being needed.

That is the big question. Dot Emu (who worked on the Metal Slug ports) used GGPO but the developers (I forget their names offhand but I know they're based in Australia) of KOF13 Steam did not and had to use delay-based netcode. The devs for KOF 13 are very much aware of the demand of GGPO and had to tactfully answer that they could not use it. From what I've heard, KOF 13 was made in such a way that using rollback netcode would be impossible (SNKP being very forward-thinking there).

One would hope that they're going to use GGPO and/or rollback-based netcode but we don't know for sure yet. Supposedly 98 UM FE on Tencent's network uses rollback-based netcode but there's no idea if this will apply to 02 UM as well.

I'm crossing my fingers for GGPO and lobbies.

Now we just need Capcom to port 3rd Strike (with the latest patch) to Steam already.
 

Loona

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That is the big question. Dot Emu (who worked on the Metal Slug ports) used GGPO but the developers (I forget their names offhand but I know they're based in Australia)

You probably mean Jace Varlet - he's australian, but was in Japan. He's left the company since, and is now moving to Sweden to work with the guys who made Goat Simulator.
Jim Bulmer, who's from the UK, but still at SNKP in japan though.
 

alstein

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You probably mean Jace Varlet - he's australian, but was in Japan. He's left the company since, and is now moving to Sweden to work with the guys who made Goat Simulator.
Jim Bulmer, who's from the UK, but still at SNKP in japan though.

Thought Jace only worked on XIII?
 

ElTopo

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You probably mean Jace Varlet - he's australian, but was in Japan. He's left the company since, and is now moving to Sweden to work with the guys who made Goat Simulator.
Jim Bulmer, who's from the UK, but still at SNKP in japan though.

Interesting. I assumed he was working on it considering it's KOF and the UM's were spotted on Steam DB at the same time KOF13 was found:

http://steamdb.info/app/222440/history/

(I don't have the link for 98 UM FE on Steam DB but 98 and 02 have been updated concurrently)

So either Jace and the rest of the guys behind KOF 13 Steam Edition worked on the UM titles for Steam and the titles were completed 4 months ago and SNKP has been sitting on completed ports and waiting for a window to release them. Or DotEmu has been working on them which would be awesome because they've been using GGPO in the Metal Slug ports.
 

OmegaDL50

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I wonder what kind of price point they are going to set.

Both Metal Slug X and Metal Slug 3 are $8 each, but those are more or less straight ports with some added features of the MVS / AES versions.

While I wouldn't mind getting both KOF titles for that price range, realistically, I think a price of $15 each not counting a Steam sale discount seems about right.

Maybe $9.99 even. $20 might be pushing it.
 

OmegaDL50

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What makes the final edition different?

Balancing changes - http://www.orochinagi.com/wiki/index.php?title=KOF_98_UM_Final_Edition_Changes

KOF98 is fairly balanced game as it is but with the inclusion of the Bosses from KOF96 and Eiji things were shaken up somewhat.

Krauser was top tier, the Final Edition makes the boss team more balanced, except for some reason Lucky became God Tier.

Still anything to make every character viable across the board in a game with a large roster is a good thing.

A worthwhile improvement in my opinion.
 

Galdelico

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Who is making/will make the ports?

I only have Metal Slug 3 to be excited about (PS3 peasant :p) but I don't know if I can hope for M2 to be working on it.

Such an odd choice to scatter the games all over so many platforms, though: I would've bought KoF98 in a heartbeat and happily triple dipped 2002, if they came on PSN. Oh well.
 

blurrygil

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Are either of these (98 UM FE and 2002 UM) on consoles? Just curious, really. I swear I've seen them on XBL.

Balancing changes - http://www.orochinagi.com/wiki/index.php?title=KOF_98_UM_Final_Edition_Changes

KOF98 is fairly balanced game as it is but with the inclusion of the Bosses from KOF96 and Eiji things were shaken up somewhat.

Krauser was top tier, the Final Edition makes the boss team more balanced, except for some reason Lucky became God Tier.

Still anything to make every character viable across the board in a game with a large roster is a good thing.

A worthwhile improvement in my opinion.

Edit: Thanks for this. Was curious myself.

Same question for 02 UM. What's changed in that?
 

ElTopo

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Are either of these (98 UM FE and 2002 UM) on consoles? Just curious, really. I swear I've seen them on XBL.

Both UM's were on XBLA and both had pretty shit netcode. The version on XBLA was not FE (which had additional balance changes). 98UM (again, not FE) made it to the PS2 in America but the PS2 version of 02UM was only released in Asia.
 
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Jace Varlet tweet:

https://twitter.com/jembawls/status/509927507626180609

Notice the hashtag #vastlyimprovednetcode (same selling point used for KOF13) so really hoping this means GGPO.

The thing is, he knows so many of us turned this hashtag into a running gag back during the XIII beta days, so I can't tell how serious he is here. XD
Also if he's worked on those two games, it can't be recent, since he hasn't been involved with anything SNK-related for a while now.
 

blurrygil

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Both UM's were on XBLA and both had pretty shit netcode. The version on XBLA was not FE (which had additional balance changes). 98UM (again, not FE) made it to the PS2 in America but the PS2 version of 02UM was only released in Asia.

Got it. So there's no version of either FE available on a US console, correct?
 

ElTopo

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Balancing changes - http://www.orochinagi.com/wiki/index.php?title=KOF_98_UM_Final_Edition_Changes

KOF98 is fairly balanced game as it is but with the inclusion of the Bosses from KOF96 and Eiji things were shaken up somewhat.

Krauser was top tier, the Final Edition makes the boss team more balanced, except for some reason Lucky became God Tier.

Still anything to make every character viable across the board in a game with a large roster is a good thing.

A worthwhile improvement in my opinion.

Between OG 98 and 98 UM they're entirely different games. The biggest difference are the new characters and balance changes but there's also fundamental gameplay changes. The damage is much lower in UM. In OG 98 if you got caught twice, that was it, you just lost a character. And consider that Iori could stun you in two rekka combos and he can easily end you with a 3rd one...

The other big difference is the groove system. In OG 98 you had ADV and EX Grooves. ADV groove allowed to you roll forwards or backwards, your dash is a run, and you could stock up multiple supers. EX gave you a sidestep, you had to manually charge your meter (ala Dragon Ball), you could only have bar at a time, but your dash was an actual dash (ala Street Fighter) and when your life was flashing red you had access to desperation supers regardless of how much meter you have and could fire them off pretty freely. EX was mostly garbage in OG.

In 98 UM ADV is the same as before but EX got buffed in that the sidestep has very fast recovery and is incredibly useful. It also added a 3rd groove called Ultimate that allows you to mix and match elements of either groove to suite your taste. Needless to say, sidestepping is the preferred way to go but some dudes will still use rolling.

02UM's system was mostly the same just balanced. Not to mention the almost 50 characters and good balance (and Seth is not shit tier any more). Brazil/Mexico hate 02UM because Angel isn't broken top tier anymore.

Got it. So there's no version of either FE available on a US console, correct?

Right, FE was only released on arcades and is playable on Tencent's network on PC in China (You need a Chinese ID in order to access it).
 

CadetMahoney

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2k2UM broken ass game, every team has Kasumi, K, Chris, Nameless/

Original 2k2 was unbalanced but much more balanced than 2k2UM. Nameless is ridiculous. Upscaled sprites look awful backgrounds are too colorful and contrast too much with the sprites (see the beach stage and the fairground stage - eye bleach needed).

They really need a Final Edition of 2k2UM to fix some major flaws.

---

Overall it will be just like KOF13. Some nuthuggers get excited then everyone stops playing then you see 1 or 2 ppl begging on facebook pages for matches 2 months later. Whilst ggpo still going strong with access to foreign players. :)

What is it about '98 that everyone universally loves???

I don't think it's universally loved.

On GGPO the 2k2 players rarely cross play it because they know 2k2 is superior. 98 is an ok game, just not as balanced as original 2k2.
 

ElTopo

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Im not well versed in the KOF universe only really played '96, what is it about '98 that everyone universally loves???

Since I'm on a roll I'll offer my input. 98 is probably the most balanced and fun game. It does not require you to learn long combos (a necessity for KOF 13, much to it's detriment) and had a solid enough roster. Even though Iori just kinda' rapes everything and everyone uses Iori/Kyo/EX Yashiro/and Chris.

2nd most popular KOF in China. The most popular is KOF 97. No one can explain why but 97 is Street Fighter 2's level of popular in China. And it's a very imbalanced game too.

Dudes in Mexico/Brazil prefer 02 because of Angel. Angel had a pretty easy infinite and 02 in general is pretty imbalanced/borderline broken. They don't like 02UM because Angel is low tier.

Original 2k2 was unbalanced but much more balanced than 2k2UM. Nameless is ridiculous.

They really need a Final Edition of 2k2UM to fix some major flaws.

---

Overall it will be just like KOF13. Some nuthuggers get excited then everyone stops playing then you see 1 or 2 ppl begging on facebook pages for matches 2 months later. Whilst ggpo still going strong with access to foreign players. :)



Either you're a dude who mains Angel (which is what I'm guessing) or you've never played an Athena or Choi ever in 02. No one has ever said that 02 UM is the fabled perfectly balanced fighter but to say that OG 02 has better balance than 02UM just shows profound ignorance.
 

BadWolf

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Either you're a dude who mains Angel (which is what I'm guessing) or you've never played an Athena or Choi ever in 02. No one has ever said that 02 UM is the fabled perfectly balanced fighter but to say that OG 02 has better balance than 02UM just shows profound ignorance.

Have to agree with this.

And the Mexican players seem to really enjoy the brokeness of OG2002. Not only do they love them some Angel infinites but they also exploit May Lee's glitch in real matches as well (where the opponent's sprite gets stuck to her leg or something and then the May Lee player makes the timer run out).
 

OmegaDL50

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Between OG 98 and 98 UM they're entirely different games. The biggest difference are the new characters and balance changes but there's also fundamental gameplay changes. The damage is much lower in UM. In OG 98 if you got caught twice, that was it, you just lost a character. And consider that Iori could stun you in two rekka combos and he can easily end you with a 3rd one...

The other big difference is the groove system. In OG 98 you had ADV and EX Grooves. ADV groove allowed to you roll forwards or backwards, your dash is a run, and you could stock up multiple supers. EX gave you a sidestep, you had to manually charge your meter (ala Dragon Ball), you could only have bar at a time, but your dash was an actual dash (ala Street Fighter) and when your life was flashing red you had access to desperation supers regardless of how much meter you have and could fire them off pretty freely. EX was mostly garbage in OG.

In 98 UM ADV is the same as before but EX got buffed in that the sidestep has very fast recovery and is incredibly useful. It also added a 3rd groove called Ultimate that allows you to mix and match elements of either groove to suite your taste. Needless to say, sidestepping is the preferred way to go but some dudes will still use rolling.

Yeah I know the are differences between OG 98 and 98UM. I own the PS2 version of 98UM. Using the manual charge (Extra) with the Advanced mode roll one of my preferred methods when I used Kim and Takuma in my Team.

I was just sharing the changes between 98UM standard and 98UM Final Edition according to Orochinagi.

Although I used talk in length over at SRK and have discussions with Dark Geese about SNK fighters in general. I stopped visiting the forums ever since Dark Geese just stopped posting entirely roughly 3 years ago and moved to Dreamcancel.com
 

CadetMahoney

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Either you're a dude who mains Angel (which is what I'm guessing) or you've never played an Athena or Choi ever in 02. No one has ever said that 02 UM is the fabled perfectly balanced fighter but to say that OG 02 has better balance than 02UM just shows profound ignorance.

Kim is better than both of those, and even then he isn't on every team. Athena and Choi are top but they are far more beatable than the top tiers in UM, especially compared to nameless. If you think 2k2 UM is more balanced you don't know what you're talking about.

Go and watch some matches. Athena and Choi are definitely not almost always on every team unlike UM top tiers (Nameless, K, Kasumi, Chris). Go watch the top 8 of the recent UM tournament and come back and tell me how there was variety in the teams, unlike in any recent 2k2 tournament. Also go and watch the top 8 for Tougeki SBO 2k2um + Finals.

And lolz to the other guy saying May Lee bug that hardly ever lands is an issue. Both of you don't play 2k2 on ggpo by the looks of it.
 
R

Retro_

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I thought Vanilla 02 has always been known for having one of the most interesting sets of dominant characters in a KoF. So much character variety and diversity at the highest level.
 

Loona

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Same question for 02 UM. What's changed in that?

Mostly an expanded cast (everyone from OG 2002, all the characters from 99 to 2001, including bosses and Kyo clones with alternative movesets, Goenitz, Geese, and alternative versions of Takuma, Kensou, Robert and Nightmare Geese, IIRC), Nameless replacing K9999, balance tweaks, new stages and music, and special challenges.
 

BadWolf

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And lolz to the other guy saying May Lee bug that hardly ever lands is an issue. Both of you don't play 2k2 on ggpo by the looks of it.

Yeah because GGPO is what I would use to gauge a game's balance.

The fact that you are trying to brush off Angel in OG2002 is telling enough.

Now if you'll excuse me I'll go write a tier list for XIII based on my experiences on PSN and Steam.
 

ElTopo

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Oh wait, I was wrong. 02UM is on Tencent's network as well and they use rollback netcode. So... GGPO/Rollback netcode kinda' sorta' confirmed now? Hopefully?
 

OmegaDL50

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One doesn't need to look very hard in Dark Geese's video channel of the various SNK fighting game tournaments with tons of 2K2 footage such as The Game of Death to see that Angel is one of the most commonly picked characters.

Hell, The whole video list is a treasure trove of SNK Fighting game tournament footage in general, but it certainly doesn't disprove AlexSA2's point about KOF2k2

https://www.youtube.com/user/DarkGeese/videos
 

alstein

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One doesn't need to look very hard in Dark Geese's video channel of the various SNK fighting game tournaments with tons of 2K2 footage such as The Game of Death to see that Angel is one of the most commonly picked characters.

Hell, The whole video list is a treasure trove of SNK Fighting game tournament footage in general, but it certainly doesn't disprove AlexSA2's point about KOF2k2

https://www.youtube.com/user/DarkGeese/videos

Angel has a lot of Mexican popularity- unsure if it exists outside of Mexico.

Our local scene blew up Dark Geese a few times. He didn't like us that much.
 

CadetMahoney

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Now if you'll excuse me I'll go write a tier list for XIII based on my experiences on PSN and Steam.

I don't even know what you're counter argument is. Steam hardly has little to community online for 13 let alone any elite players from foreign countries frequently playing. I'm pretty sure if you're gonna gauge top gameplay over countries GGPO is fine.

They have many matches readily available to view. Very little angel like you claim:

https://www.youtube.com/user/palekofstine/videos

The fact that you are trying to brush off Angel in OG2002 is telling enough.

If you're argument is that Angel breaks the game or is worse than Nameless in UM then you definitely don't play 2002 on the regular. Angel is very hard and unorthodox to use btw, you need to be very good to get the most rewards. Secondly she is far from a regular in the most used characters, unlike UM's top heavy roster. Don't forget they ban that infinite in tournaments.

Boy, found some footage from 3S:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HD4WnLq6mV4

Q is clearly god tier, what a trash game, 2nd Impact is still superior. Man, what a broken POS game.

You're seriously reaching here.

Is that supposed to prove 3rd strike doesn't have Yun Chun Li and Ken used more often than not? Because any respectable third strike player will disagree with that.

Because if so you need to find another counter-argument. I already provided two examples of a top 8 in UM tournaments, you can go through each match set and see the amount of K's, Nameless, Kasumi and Chris's on the teams. Which proves, just like third strike, how top heavy the roster usage is. Unlike original 2k2.
 

CadetMahoney

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Angel has a lot of Mexican popularity- unsure if it exists outside of Mexico.

Our local scene blew up Dark Geese a few times. He didn't like us that much.

Yep, I don't know how some ppl are trying to show an event in Mexico where one or two ppl who main Angel then extrapolate that to the rest of the world as Angel being "one of the most widely used characters in KOF2002". She's not.

I don't like 2k2 because of the huge changes they did with my main Takuma.

Takuma is probably the better or best character of that team with rob and ryo tbh. The differences are there compared to 98, but they have been refined very well. ppl don't know Robert can also beast. -RAFA- mains him on ggpo against other top players.

you still see interesting teams

You see at least one of the same top 4 in every team far more than original 2k2. UM is probably on par or worse with third strike when it comes to tournaments. Many times in UM a team has 2 or all the top chars in the team, that's far less "interesting teams" than original 2k2. I think I've already established that with my examples if you bothered to look.

Also nice try at a goalpost change, none of my posts was "ppl can't play whoever they wish".
 

OmegaDL50

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I barely play 2k2 to begin with.

I'm mainly a KOF98 OG and KOF98UM player.

So any intricacies with the character roster of 2k2 is beyond me outside of tournament footage that I watch.

I don't like 2k2 because of the huge changes they did with my main Takuma. Sure there is like 40+ other characters to pick from but Takuma regardless of whatever KOF game it is, was always a center piece to my team, even as far back as KOF95.

His omission in KOF96 and 97 was kind of glaring to me, this probably explains why KOF98 is my favorite KOF, it brought back Takuma but also having all of these new balancing tweaks and improvements. 98UM even beyond that because it included every single character from 94 to 97 in a single game, which was my favorite KOF years.
 

ElTopo

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I find the guy's bitching funny. In every KOF you play whoever you want but stick a top tier somewhere on your team and you're good. King and Nameless are super high tier in 02 UM but you still see interesting teams and if they weren't super high tier then everyone would stick Iori/Kyo on their team anyway. So what's the problem?
 

OmegaDL50

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Who's bitching?

I don't care what team I use. It could be any two characters, Terry and Kim, King or Choi, Kyo or Iori, or whoever else. As long as Takuma is in there somewhere, I'm a happy camper.
 

alstein

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Yep, I don't know how some ppl are trying to show an event in Mexico where one or two ppl who main Angel then extrapolate that to the rest of the world as Angel being "one of the most widely used characters in KOF2002". She's not.



Takuma is probably the better or best character of that team with rob and ryo tbh. The differences are there compared to 98, but they have been refined very well. ppl don't know Robert can also beast. -RAFA- mains him on ggpo against other top players.

When I played Kaillera 2k2, she was used a bunch by Mexicans, not so much by non-Mexicans.
 

Tizoc

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Sorry for the bump, but with MSX releasing soon, was kinda hoping SNK would put up the pre-order for KoF 98 UM already so I can give them my monies.
 

Tizoc

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Bump...cuz based on that link, KoF 98 UM should be releasing in November, maybe its pre-order goes up during the Halloween sale?
 

thesolidshark

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Bump...cuz based on that link, KoF 98 UM should be releasing in November, maybe its pre-order goes up during the Halloween sale?

I heard mid-November from another source, so I'm hoping some listing is made available on Steam this week. Not expecting it there, just hope it's there before it's November.
 

Tizoc

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I heard mid-November from another source, so I'm hoping some listing is made available on Steam this week. Not expecting it there, just hope it's there before it's November.

As is I'd be satisfied with a pre-order =3
I need OG Rugal in my life again.
 

Rhaknar

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why are we assuming online btw? Metal Slug X doesnt have online correct?

and other companies old ass fighters dont have online either when ported *cough*GuiltyGear*cough*
 

Het_Nkik

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why are we assuming online btw? Metal Slug X doesnt have online correct?

and other companies old ass fighters dont have online either when ported *cough*GuiltyGear*cough*

Both Metal Slug 3 and Metal Slug X have online co-op on Steam.
 

Biker19

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They need to stop milking us like whore cows and release an SNK complete collection for $99.99 and include all the arcade games they have ever released.

I agree. They need to either do that, start updating the graphics of both KOF '98: Ultimate Match Final Edition & KOF 2002: Unlimited Match to something like either KOF XIII or Guilty Gear Xrd Style, or just bring out KOF XIV that's similar to both '98 & 2002: UM in terms of both a huge roster & a graphical update.