Not Sen2/CS2.
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The Kiseki / Trails (of the Sky/Zero/Ao/Sen/Etc) Community Thread: SPOILERTAGS OR DIE
- Thread starter Bebpo
- Start date
Not Sen2/CS2.
Yeah, things are going to get blown wide open once CSII hits over here. You can bury your head in the sand for a few years until Zero and Azure come over... or you can just enjoy the ride.
I'm reminded of how Lufia 1 spoils the ending of Lufia 2... kinda. That was of course by design, though.
I'm reminded of how Lufia 1 spoils the ending of Lufia 2... kinda. That was of course by design, though.
Are there any RPGs like Lufia where the follow up took place before the first game?
I love it when games do this but aside from Lufia I don't think I can remember any more.
Falcom totally did that, The Legend of Heroes IV: Akai Shizuku and The Legend of Heroes V: Umi no Oriuta both take place before The Legend of Heroes III: Shiroki Majo.
Was it really Karin? Cake Attack's screenshot Let's Play of FC shows that Joshua actually chose the name Karen.
It was Karen in the PSP version, which was fixed as Karin in the Steam version.
Thanks, I was suspecting this might have been the case. Such a great detail.
So I gave the final boss theme of SC a listen through again and found two more cool little things they put in there that I haven't already mentioned in this thread. A couple people mentioned being interested in this stuff, so I wanted to share! Kinda surprised I didn't pick up on these right away, but man you should've seen the huge smile on my face when it clicked. I had no idea they managed to put so many of their themes and motifs from the two games into this one track. It's pretty freaking incredible how amazing this composition is, and how well they incorporate so many different themes to make a cohesive piece that doesn't sound like just another medley.
First, the main violin melody for the first half of the piece (starting at 0:53); it totally starts with the motif that plays during the Falcom logo intro, which are the opening notes to The Whereabouts of Light. The main difference between how it appears originally and how it appears in the boss theme is that the passing tone (PT) is excluded (these types of notes are considered to not be fundamental to the core structure of a motif in music analysis. It's in the category of what are called non-chord tones).
The thing that tipped me off is how the rhythm is the same for the first three notes. Rhythmic change happens in the second bar of theme is standard for variation and manipulation of motivic material in composition, and is recognized as such in music analysis. To break it down a little more, i'd say the core fundamentals that comprise this short idea are the rhythm of the first three notes, the note-to-note movement (starting note, half-step down, M3 down, m3 down, M3 down (this is a triad), then a M1 up).
Two motif in original form with the PT outlined.
(Top staff is the Logo/song version of the motif. Bottom staff is the motif as it appears in the boss music)
Two motifs rhythmically aligned, with the PT omitted.
(Same staff positions as the image above)
And if you couldn't figure it out, yes, same exact intervals the whole way. I left them in their original keys so you can see the difference.
In the ending before the loop repeat, there's another really interesting violin melody too! Starting at about 3:40 the Shine of Eidos ~Sora no Kiseki~ theme (0:25 on this track) makes an appearance! At first I thought I only heard just cool violin stuff, but in reality that whole section is totally the main melody from Shine of Eidos ~Sora no Kiseki~, but rhythmically manipulated so that it fits with the tone of the piece better. Below that (as accompaniment) is the chord progression from the same piece at 1:52, and the corresponding melody from the similar section in Whereabouts of Hope at the 2:28 mark as a countermelody to the violin part in the voices and horn sounds. I can't remember if that exact melody appears anywhere else first, but I definitely know the chord progression is straight from Shine of Eidos ~Sora no Kiseki~. I think it requires a bit better listening capabilities to be able to really hear it and understand what they're doing there, but I assure you that this is exactly what's happening there! It's three different parts of other tracks all happening at once and it's done flawlessly!
Anyways, I found more cool stuff and was really excited to share it because I really really reeeaaaaallly love the work Falcom Sound Team jdk does.
First, the main violin melody for the first half of the piece (starting at 0:53); it totally starts with the motif that plays during the Falcom logo intro, which are the opening notes to The Whereabouts of Light. The main difference between how it appears originally and how it appears in the boss theme is that the passing tone (PT) is excluded (these types of notes are considered to not be fundamental to the core structure of a motif in music analysis. It's in the category of what are called non-chord tones).
The thing that tipped me off is how the rhythm is the same for the first three notes. Rhythmic change happens in the second bar of theme is standard for variation and manipulation of motivic material in composition, and is recognized as such in music analysis. To break it down a little more, i'd say the core fundamentals that comprise this short idea are the rhythm of the first three notes, the note-to-note movement (starting note, half-step down, M3 down, m3 down, M3 down (this is a triad), then a M1 up).
Two motif in original form with the PT outlined.
(Top staff is the Logo/song version of the motif. Bottom staff is the motif as it appears in the boss music)
Two motifs rhythmically aligned, with the PT omitted.
(Same staff positions as the image above)
And if you couldn't figure it out, yes, same exact intervals the whole way. I left them in their original keys so you can see the difference.
In the ending before the loop repeat, there's another really interesting violin melody too! Starting at about 3:40 the Shine of Eidos ~Sora no Kiseki~ theme (0:25 on this track) makes an appearance! At first I thought I only heard just cool violin stuff, but in reality that whole section is totally the main melody from Shine of Eidos ~Sora no Kiseki~, but rhythmically manipulated so that it fits with the tone of the piece better. Below that (as accompaniment) is the chord progression from the same piece at 1:52, and the corresponding melody from the similar section in Whereabouts of Hope at the 2:28 mark as a countermelody to the violin part in the voices and horn sounds. I can't remember if that exact melody appears anywhere else first, but I definitely know the chord progression is straight from Shine of Eidos ~Sora no Kiseki~. I think it requires a bit better listening capabilities to be able to really hear it and understand what they're doing there, but I assure you that this is exactly what's happening there! It's three different parts of other tracks all happening at once and it's done flawlessly!
Anyways, I found more cool stuff and was really excited to share it because I really really reeeaaaaallly love the work Falcom Sound Team jdk does.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
I have a feeling everyone at jdk pitched in to make The Merciless Savior a deceptively detailed boss theme, though Sonoda alone could have done this. The way they integrated the Sora no Kiseki theme into this stands out because it's much less obvious than when you hear the leitmotif in the previous Final Chapter tracks. And they still haven't made a piano arranged album of Kiseki tunes, which is disappointing given the potential.
I guess I wasn't paying enough attention, though I did notice how it mirrored the final boss theme from FC, particularly this part here at the 1:20 mark:
Ancient Makes
Guess I didn't immediately recognize it as a motif shared between various themes. They make it sound distinct enough to be their own songs, but actually the commonalities betray them if you really listen. Good stuff.
Ancient Makes
Guess I didn't immediately recognize it as a motif shared between various themes. They make it sound distinct enough to be their own songs, but actually the commonalities betray them if you really listen. Good stuff.
Question regarding the etymology of a certain enemy that appears at the end of SC.
Why is the enemy still called T.M. Dragion in the English version? Wouldn't it make more sense for it to be called R.V. Dragion instead? T.M. seems to be short for Traumerei, which is the Japanese name of Reverie (the final boss of FC).
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
Even though I own first and second chapter on PC, I bought them again on Vita. I'm playing FC for the first time and it's on Vita. Is this one of those games where you have to speak to everyone before an event to get extra scenes and quests like the older Tales games?
There are hidden side quests, but those aren't triggered by conversation, just exploring. You have to be at the right place at the right time.
Also I'm not sure if I recall any extra cut scene just by talking to NPCs, in some side quest I think so, but not outside.
Information might be wrong, only did one playthrough
UberTag
Member
Not especially. Most of the quests can be found by scoping out the quest board at various bracer guilds but there are some hidden quests scattered around that aren't there.
The Trails in the Sky series does a fairly robust job of fleshing out NPCs with depth and characterization so a good part of the fun is to simply scope out what new things they have to say after every key storyline objective. Hidden sidequests will usually be triggered by being in the right place at the right time whereas catching up with NPCs will only sabotage you from finding collectible books and the like.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
So there isn't much purpose to talking to npcs?
UberTag
Member
They're some of the best NPCs in any JRPG, IMO.
But that "purpose" is derived from characterizations that shift and evolve over the course of two games.
These chats won't typically lead to you getting "shiny doodad du jour". More like "hey these two NPCs I've been chatting with since before they knew each other in the prologue of FC just lost their engagement ring and now I have to find it" when it shows up on the quest board 10 chapters and one game later.
The exception to that rule would be the books which allow you to get the best weapons in each game. Those are often obtusely hidden and will depend on talking to the right NPC at the right time to get them. Although those weapons aren't exactly essential by any means. More like a reward for being thorough.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
Being a voyeur-slash-busybody to the NPCs is one of my biggest indulgence in the Trails games.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
Yar, Ruan has that lady who has a strange rivalry with his neighbor, but most of the interesting ones are the Academy students.
It helps that in Grancel everyone's in a central town. As much as I wanted to keep up with Ravennue or the students at the Academy I wasn't that dedicated to make the trek every time something happened.
You still had to visit the checkpoints if you really wanted to be thorough. Both games like to hide secret scenes, hidden quests and lost books in those places when you're really only expected to keep to the main town.
Well I did do that in Rolent, but otherwise I didn't find most of the checkpoint guys that interesting. I know I missed a few side quests, but I was able to get like 10 books without a guide, just talking to whoever I wanted to, so I don't know if it's that critical. Although based purely on how I got more books in SC than I did in FC it's probably just that they weren't as well hidden.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
The Academy is closed off most of the time, anyway, so no worries there.
Talking to npcs us pretty much why I play these games. Their stories flesh out the kiseki universe in a way the main story alone never could.
It really makes the world feel alive and lived in. There's something really cool about everyone always having something new to say, or progressing through their own storylines.
UberTag
Member
I was pretty obsessive about it.
To the point where I happily made the trek through the Kaldia Tunnel to chat up those guys at Air-Letten to get their thoughts on why the power went out in Zeiss or why the Wolf Fort got hit by an earthquake.
I have so many favorite NPCs in Trails in the Sky. Anton is the obvious standout but I also love Claire (always the ambitious gossip journalist), Ida (the crazy cat lady - Rolent has some of the best NPCs), the tea shop twins in Grancel (Midee and Kitty - whom, of course, then gets roped into working at Rinon's in Rolent by his ever-anxious-for-grandkids mother Bloom), Faye (what she sees in Brahm I'll never know), that crazy ingredient scrounger, Orvid, Jimmy (who graduates from treasure hunting to archeology) and countless others. Hell, I even make up my own storylines for some of them. Like I speculated that Lucia set the orphanage in Ruan on fire so she'd be able to play with her friends all the time. It can't be fun being the only kid in Ravennue Village.
In fact, said NPCs even show up in Zero no Kiseki, which takes place a year later in a different country,
this time holding a baby in their arms.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
My favourite NPC in FC/SC were Anton his bad luck, the shopkeeper in Ruan who talked about the political systems in the differents countries and some other stuff, the student in the academy who is to be wed with some guy from Erebonia, the twin sisters shopkeepers in Grancel and practically all of Rolent (though for me the wannabe journalist young girl is probably my favourite in Rolent, but basically all of Rolent is memorable).
I really really wish Zero and Ao NPC is as memorable as Rolent's NPC. I heard there's only one town so I think it should be possible.
But after recently playing Grandia 2, it's too bad the games in the Trails series doesn't have as much interactiveness between the NPC and the party members. It's usually only the NPC that talks, though if the party members know somebody there's a higher chance that party member will also talk too. But in Grandia 2, it doesn't matter if they don't know the NPC, the party member will talk and give their opinions, say something funny or wise or whatever, practically EVERY SINGLE TIME. Truly the most standout "feature" in Grandia 1 and 2.
I really really wish Zero and Ao NPC is as memorable as Rolent's NPC. I heard there's only one town so I think it should be possible.
But after recently playing Grandia 2, it's too bad the games in the Trails series doesn't have as much interactiveness between the NPC and the party members. It's usually only the NPC that talks, though if the party members know somebody there's a higher chance that party member will also talk too. But in Grandia 2, it doesn't matter if they don't know the NPC, the party member will talk and give their opinions, say something funny or wise or whatever, practically EVERY SINGLE TIME. Truly the most standout "feature" in Grandia 1 and 2.
Finished Cold Steel I.
Shit.
Shit.
Fuck, you gonna do me like that? Not even a post-credit scene? Too many unanswered questions to end a game on, feels like I'm due for a lot more answers than I currently have if the second game is shorter than the first. The first game better have been 80% of the filler and the second game is all the juicy red meat you've been teasing me Falcom.
Also really, relegate the Ymir trip to a drama CD that I'll never be able to understand? Poor show.
Also really, relegate the Ymir trip to a drama CD that I'll never be able to understand? Poor show.
The sequel has great post-game content making the game at least as long as Cold Steel I, but the actual climax of the first game's setup is sooner than your average Trails game. It never drops the pace once it gets rolling, though.
A translation of the drama CD can be found here. Cold Steel, both the Japanese and the English version, however does contain traces to the content related to the drama CD, which had to be scrapped due to time constraints. The traces consist of the following place names, with the actual 'content' files removed:
- Ymir, the Hot Springs Paradise
- Daily & Souvenir Store - Plover
- Tavern - Valley's Echo
- Baron Schwarzer's Mansion
- The Phoenix Wings
- The Phoenix Wings - Indoor Bathhouse
- The Phoenix Wings - Outdoor Hot Spring
- Ymir Chapel
- Ymir - House
- Daily & Souvenir Store - Plover
- Tavern - Valley's Echo
- Baron Schwarzer's Mansion
- The Phoenix Wings
- The Phoenix Wings - Indoor Bathhouse
- The Phoenix Wings - Outdoor Hot Spring
- Ymir Chapel
- Ymir - House
Im a little ways into Chapter 1. Its slow and is so hard to keep going sometimes.
But I do want to get through it to play SC and CS.
Skip non-mandatory battles the best you can and don't do all the mundane side-quests if the game isn't grabbing you early on. No reason to drive yourself away from what ends up being an exciting journey by the end. You need to be able to enjoy the laid-back atmosphere & pacing and the somewhat mundane but still surprisingly entertaining to follow lives of NPCs in order to get enjoyment out of the games outside of the escalating main story and if you don't, then it's better to just stick to the main story. No need to worry about levels too much. Even if you end up underleveled, you'll catch up quickly with a little bit of grinding at that point because enemies should give a decent amount of exp since it scales based on your level.
I do think part of it is trying to get all the BPs, which Ive done so far. What does it give you again for SC if you get all points?
And its not like I am not enjoying the game at all, it is a fun game. I just havent gotten grabbed yet, where I want to find whats next. I understand the story gets to the point where it picks up speed, but just havent gotten there yet.
Yeah, I was pretty obsessive about it as well,
Favorites:
Luke - (because he shares my name!) the little kid in Rolent who always wanted to fight you
Anton - the lovesick guy who travels the world. Felt bad when he
got out-drank by the Rolent guildmaster
The shopkeeper and his mom in Rolent (whose names I forget) - the mom goes to the capital to find a woman for the shopkeeper to marry, can't find anyone but hits it off with a woman on the airship flight back home.
The woman who was distraught over her husband's love of fishing, she ends up taking up fishing herself just to see what the big deal is,
ends up superseding her husband, and then the 2 of them make amends and go on vacation to a popular fishing spot.
Man, the NPCs in this game have more character than a lot of lead heroes in other games
UberTag
Member
I did all of the mundane sidequests (love those things) but on the battle front during my run through both games, I literally fought each non-mandatory battle once for the bestiary entry and that was it. The exception being the rare enemy that had a quartz rare drop that was otherwise unavailable from an orbment factory.
Of course, this is trickier in the early going without a Haze quartz of some kind equipped. Those kamikaze Red Insectos can make that first chapter of FC feel like a grind. It's weird watching streams of the game and seeing people not actively fleeing battles when possible.
You'll get a Glove Gear, a Celestial Balm and an Emergency Puppet for bringing over your save data.
Perfect BP rank will give you a handy Luck quartz several chapters before you can land one in the game.
There's nothing exclusive but that Luck quartz does come in handy with some early rare drops.
The Glove Gear is an okay early game accessory and the other two items are hardly worthwhile.
Plus, your ending level with Estelle in FC will determine her starting level in SC (ranging from Level 35 to Level 40).
I felt the same way playing through Trails FC the first time. Wasn't grabbed through the end of Chapter 1 and pretty much dropped my playthrough before coming back to it after its Steam release. Chapter 2 goes a lot further in terms of getting you invested in the game world... it's still one of my favorite chapters in the entire franchise.
Like 1 or 2 quartz, maybe an item or few. In case you fail with your 100%BP run or abandon it and are playing on PC, you can just download the savefile linked in the OP of the SC OT here and copy it to the save folder to get the bonuses.
Yeah, that's actually good advice. Fight each enemy type at least once and if it doesn't sound too horrible, fight each individual enemy on the map once and then when the back & forth running through the same roads starts, just run past everything you can.
Pretty much what I did. Clear an area of enemies the first time, then never again (unless they replace the enemy types with new ones... but I can't recall that ever happening). Makes it harder to come across Shining Poms in SC to fight unless you already know where they'll spawn, though.
UberTag
Member
I want to say enemies got replaced by new ones in SC Chapter 4
as the fog started spreading further across Rolent
I distinctly remember fighting different enemies in Mistwald at the beginning of the chapter than I did towards the end of it.
But that's the only instance that immediately comes to mind (
unless you count the two unique Glorious appearances in Chapters 6 and 9 - and that's not a case of new enemies so much as the same enemies showing up with a higher level and unique bestiary entry
You know, my memory of SC is fuzzy, whatever happened to the
Does this mean that at the end of CS2
Glorious anyway? Just sailing around in the air still?
that Ourobouros has two giant airships under their control? Maybe more since I haven't played Zero/Ao? How on earth does such a fairly small organization that employs mercenaries manage two massive airships! lol
the pacing is actually my favorite part.
Its nice and slow and most games don't have the patience to do that.
The Thirteen Factories
They're just chilling there? Futuristic tech, artificial humans, and they must have a massive arsenal of weaponry too!
SatelliteOfLove
Member
In most games that's unintentional and bad, too.
The best part about that is that I enjoyed it so much that I actually slowed myself/my playstyle down to enjoy everything each of the games had.
I don't do that with any other series either. These games are special to me.
It's one of the reasons I really liked CS too. I was 110% fine with the slow burn because I just liked the act of playing the game and the world-building. I don't think i'd ever rank each of the entries because I really just like them all.