Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
I beg to differ.
TLG is a masterpiece despite its flaws. FFXV is too flawed to be considered a masterpiece.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
The Last Guardian is Mechanically Frustrating, Yet Enjoyable
- Thread starter HowZatOZ
- Start date
I beg to differ.
TLG is a masterpiece despite its flaws. FFXV is too flawed to be considered a masterpiece.
the_prime_mover
Member
Definitely found the camera burdensome and sluggish. I also found the jumping and some of the extra animations overly frustrating when the way forward should have been simple. Added to that the 'puzzles' were so basic that the majority of the game just felt like pushing forward all of the time. I enjoyed the interactions with Trico, the aesthetic of the world and that narrative, but it wasn't sufficient to make me desire playing through a second time.
ZeBraTurtle
Neo Member
I just love Trico in every way. The Last Guardian was hands down my GOTY last year because of him alone.
Imp the Dimp
Member
Obviously a matter of preferences then. TLG excels at most things that are IMO not particularly integral to video games. I feel like I could have gotten just as much out of this game by watching a let's play. It honestly could have been just as good as anime. It being a video game added nothing to the charm of Trico and with most gamey aspects of the game being a flat out a chore, I feel like it was released as a wrong medium. FFXV has fun as hell gameplay and is admittedly pretty flawed when it comes to other things but I don't mind too much.
edit: Neither game is a "masterpiece" in my book. Playing Nioh right now and it's honestly on another level compared to what these two games had to offer. FFXV was good though and a successful comeback of formerly very good series. However the game was a rush job, can't argue about that.
Horrible game throughout. Poorly designed controls and camera, broken buggy ai, numerous patches and poor performance. Seems like a prime example of a rushed holiday title pushed out with little regard. Glad I didn't pay money for my copy because it would have been returned the same day. Easily the worst game I have played in ages.
See this is where I think you're wrong personally. I think TLG is in one way the greatest narrative videogame we've gotten in a long time. It uses its mechanics in a way to convey more than a lot of games with a 100,000 words of dialogue ever even come close to. Its design is so sharp and specific that everything is geared to "telling" that story love it or hate it. I've said it in other threads this is a game is the opposite of ludo narrative dissonance; call it ludo narrative harmony or something along those lines but its a game where nothing does a disservice to or distracts from its themes, vision and story. Its what I'd consider a shining example as games as an art form and showing off what only the interactive entertainment medium can achieve.
Magic Mushroom
Member
Steven Poole has a great column about this game and why it's sublime in this month's Edge. Well worth a read.
Spiral Insanity
Banned
Please be sarcasm. Please.
There are plenty of people who don't know about the game's colourful background but that doesn't mean their opinion is disregarded. It has its problems, but TLG exceeds those problems for me because of Trico and the personal interaction I got out of it being an animal owner. The frustration of sometimes not being able to control Trico precisely at times frustrated me but I always ended up chuckling because my cats would then do that exact thing as I'm playing.
TheWorthyEdge
Member
Absolutely correct.
I know the complete background but that doesn't change the fact that it seems like a rushed title riddled with bugs and poor design pushed out eight months early.
Yabberwocky
Member
I never had any problems with Trico following commands (he was an absolute feathered angel), but I also spent a lot of time petting, feeding, and grooming him. I still have no idea if it's placebo or not in regards to his behavior, but again, my Trico was such a joy to interact with. I'm still amazed how much he communicates with the player through body language, and when I'd issued a command and he acknowledged it, his body language would let me know immediately. It often sounds like people played an entirely different game from me with some of their Trico problems, it's absolutely bizarre - and it is also really is unfortunate, because my time with Trico was so magical, that I want everyone to have the same experience.
Camera was pretty blarrrgh, though I didn't have too many issues with it after a few hours. I'm still headscratching over that decision.
Yeah, it was absolutely masterful. I still think I'm wandering around in a post-TLG awe daze.
Camera was pretty blarrrgh, though I didn't have too many issues with it after a few hours. I'm still headscratching over that decision.
Yeah, it was absolutely masterful. I still think I'm wandering around in a post-TLG awe daze.
themindkillah
Neo Member
I'm sorry but I never encountered anything that made me even a little frustrated with the game. I hear a lot of people complain, personally though, I don't know if I was lucky, but Trico never misbehaved badly enough for me to feel frustrated. I might've repeated a command twice or three times at most and he complied. The game wasn't as satisfying as Ico or Shadow of the colossus but it certainly was special.
Imp the Dimp
Member
I didn't even find the narrative great. I honestly expect this game to be as influential to gaming in the future as Heavy Rain was back then. Very, very mildly.
I was intensely frustrated by the controls. Just ask my wife and dog that sat and watched me play the whole thing. It is a miracle I didn't throw my controller through the TV.
I loved the story, and am really glad I played through the whole thing, but the controls were so bad that it really tainted what would have been an otherwise amazing experience.
So much of what goes on in this game is mind blowingly innovative. Which makes it all the more baffling to me that all the things that are bad about this game, which are relatively simple things, turned out the way they did.
I loved the story, and am really glad I played through the whole thing, but the controls were so bad that it really tainted what would have been an otherwise amazing experience.
So much of what goes on in this game is mind blowingly innovative. Which makes it all the more baffling to me that all the things that are bad about this game, which are relatively simple things, turned out the way they did.
We shall see but I don't think he would had his game carried so long by Sony if they didn't think there was something there worth saving. In fact I think Ueda's influence has already been felt in the gaming community when you have people like Hidetaka Miyazaki saying he quit his job and got into the gaming field in part because of Ico. That and we have many people like Druckmann at Naughty Dog, Kojima and others giving some glowing praise to Ueda, his team and TLG. He's always been a bit of a game makers director much like certain movie directors are lauded and recognized more by their peers than they are by general audiences.
Spiral Insanity
Banned
It is nowhere near as bad as he described. Nowhere near. Pure hyperbole.
Jesus. This game did so many things right. So many things. And it is unique. Beautiful. It stands on its own in this generation.
You can't just dismiss that because the controls take getting used to, the camera can sometimes act up, or because it is difficult to issue commands to Trico at times. The game isn't a mess, we are just too used to over designed games and handholding.
Everyone is hyper critical when it comes to TLG, and I don't know why.
Thing on a Spring
Member
Mechanically frustrating is somewhat of an understatement. I honestly can't think of another game with worse controls or camera. And for a game that long in development, there's no excuse. I can't even force myself to finish it, it's that bad.
Honestly I think this is one of the most over exaggerated statements I have seen on here . Or maybe you just don't play many games .
Last guardian for me , controls were just fine and of course there were a few shaky and awkward camera moments but no more than most games that employ the camera so much.
I think these statements come down to lack of experience with games in general or just straight trolling .
Thing on a Spring
Member
Haha.
No, it comes down to the game having downright terrible controls and camera. I've been playing video games since 1986 so calm down with the old "you just don't know video games" routine. I know games perfectly well. I bought the game expecting some flaws but not to this extent.
I had the same experience. He did what I wanted most of the time and the rest just felt natural that he showed resistance.
When we
needed to dive deep under water through that tunnel
I hadn't realised there was a trust meter. Tricot got hugged a lot so maybe that is why my experience was better than some other's.
Fair enough , my bad .
Just never experienced anything near what you described . Never even played one of the devs game before so I'm not some fanboy. Thought it was fine
TwiztidElf
Member
I completely agree with you. Every single time I was on board BirdDog (as I like to call him), I gave him a pat on the neck. I never had any problems with him doing what I wanted.
Nuno Pinto
Member
Just finished it, controls wise I was expecting worse having played ICO/SotC. I didn't have problems with the camera but I know that this was patched recently, the controls were actually suprisingly responsive. Low expectations do wonders lol
The performance isn't good, especially in the 1st half of the game... some areas were kind of terrible. The latter half seemed better optimized, but it can also be because I got used to it.
You have to be patient with Trico though, I found that the easiest way to control him was going by myself to the place where I wanted to be, call him, climb and give the appropriate order. Pointing the way when I was on his back didn't seem to work out that well.
Really enjoyable game, the pacing was pretty good.
The performance isn't good, especially in the 1st half of the game... some areas were kind of terrible. The latter half seemed better optimized, but it can also be because I got used to it.
You have to be patient with Trico though, I found that the easiest way to control him was going by myself to the place where I wanted to be, call him, climb and give the appropriate order. Pointing the way when I was on his back didn't seem to work out that well.
Really enjoyable game, the pacing was pretty good.
SentientStone
Member
There are game games whose main goal is the fun of gameplay and there are interactive experiences which focuses on other areas to give a different kind of enjoyment.
Interactive experiences are what I seek nowadays since to me they are more memorable experiences. But a good game can get me hooked through the same gameplay loop but the feeling I am getting is different from those more memorable experiences. Of course, a good game can also be a balancing act between the two ends of the spectrum, though I find myself still preferring interactive experiences focused on evoking certain emotions much like how I enjoy a good movie.
Interactive experiences are what I seek nowadays since to me they are more memorable experiences. But a good game can get me hooked through the same gameplay loop but the feeling I am getting is different from those more memorable experiences. Of course, a good game can also be a balancing act between the two ends of the spectrum, though I find myself still preferring interactive experiences focused on evoking certain emotions much like how I enjoy a good movie.
Agreed here. The input lag too - whether or not it's intentional as some claim - is horrible.
I think the physics in the animation system is what causes what is perceived as a very large input delay, it's as if when you push the stick it waits for the boy's simulated center of balance to exceed a certain threshold before the boy actually takes a step. I mean the way the boy climbs or falls and manages to grab a ledge is pretty well done. I do think, if my hypothesis is right, that they should've tweaked the controls to react more responsively because now what happens is that you overshoot your target most of the times and that's very unrealistic.
So yeah while the interaction with Trico makes for some very interesting and impactful moments I think the game is held down by the boy's controls/physics. Regardless of how severe some of the technical issues are I'd still recommend this game to anyone who's open to experimentation with interactive narrative.
So yeah while the interaction with Trico makes for some very interesting and impactful moments I think the game is held down by the boy's controls/physics. Regardless of how severe some of the technical issues are I'd still recommend this game to anyone who's open to experimentation with interactive narrative.
sssssszzzzz
Neo Member
While I was able to overlook the game's rough edges, and really enjoyed Trico's own will sometimes... I had to quit the game in a diving section. I just wouldn't get this thing to dive with me on his back, and no, I am not the only one, and no, it's not my fault or skill level. Incredibly disappointed in that section.
https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/952634-the-last-guardian/74697218
This is just bad games design, nothing else and one can simply not ignore it.
https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/952634-the-last-guardian/74697218
This is just bad games design, nothing else and one can simply not ignore it.
Exactly , I think part of the design was you treat him like an actual animal . He may or may not respond all the time but that's life .
Some people wanted a fucking robot . Press button , jump here etc
These people shouldn't be playing the game .
It's a game about learning and discovery , and it's beautifully done .
Game is super slow, super boring and super vague on what you need to do in some spots.
Controls like utter shit, I can't recall the number of times the kid just trips and falls, the constant struggle of "I want to get off of trico but I keep climbing on him for some reason" and the horrible camera.
The game is charming in its own way, but does so many things wrong that it wouldn't get a pass if this wasn't an Ueda game.
Controls like utter shit, I can't recall the number of times the kid just trips and falls, the constant struggle of "I want to get off of trico but I keep climbing on him for some reason" and the horrible camera.
The game is charming in its own way, but does so many things wrong that it wouldn't get a pass if this wasn't an Ueda game.
Well it's a puzzle game so if you can't figure out its super basic puzzles , that's on you
matrix-cat
Member
I'd honestly like to know which games people think control worse than The Last Guardian, because I'd say it's a damn sight worse than all the usual offenders. I'm talking purely about the boy's controls here. GTA V and IV, RDR, the Assassin's Creed games, Witcher 3 before the alternative controls patch; they all feel like garbage due to unresponsive controls and animation priority, but they might as well be razor sharp platformers compared to TLG. I mean, maybe if you go back to early 3D days before the industry had worked out how to do this stuff you'd find something that competes, but that's hardly a point in TLG's favour 
Hell, I went back and played Ico right after TLG, and that kid controls like a dream compared to TLG boy. Night and day. TLG's shitty controls aren't just a 'Team ICO thing'.
Hell, I went back and played Ico right after TLG, and that kid controls like a dream compared to TLG boy. Night and day. TLG's shitty controls aren't just a 'Team ICO thing'.
sublimit
Banned
Reading some of the posts in TLG threads often feels as if i've played a completely different game.I don't know maybe it's due to my style of playing (very slow and methodic) or due to petting Trico very often,but honestly in my 12 hours with the game only once i wasn't able to make Trico do what i wanted.
I think the people who get "punished" the most by Trico's behaviour and by the game's controls (especially the camera) are mainly those who want to rush the game or just finish it very quickly.
I think the people who get "punished" the most by Trico's behaviour and by the game's controls (especially the camera) are mainly those who want to rush the game or just finish it very quickly.
I found the camera to be an irritation but, like most games where the controls are less than stellar, I tend to adjust after 15 minutes or so and although I'm aware it's not the best I can play without the irritation being my primary emotion.
I had no issues with Trico at all though, and considering the development trials and tribulations I thought the vision remained clear and focused and overall it was an absolutely fantastic game with some seriously evocative stuff going on.
I had no issues with Trico at all though, and considering the development trials and tribulations I thought the vision remained clear and focused and overall it was an absolutely fantastic game with some seriously evocative stuff going on.
sublimit
Banned
I'd honestly like to know which games people think control worse than The Last Guardian, because I'd say it's a damn sight worse than all the usual offenders. I'm talking purely about the boy's controls here. GTA V and IV, RDR, the Assassin's Creed games, Witcher 3 before the alternative controls patch; they all feel like garbage due to unresponsive controls and animation priority, but they might as well be razor sharp platformers compared to TLG. I mean, maybe if you go back to early 3D days before the industry had worked out how to do this stuff you'd find something that competes, but that's hardly a point in TLG's favour
Hell, I went back and played Ico right after TLG, and that kid controls like a dream compared to TLG boy. Night and day. TLG's shitty controls aren't just a 'Team ICO thing'.
Like it or not i have a feeling that the boy's controls were designed like that by choice from the developers.They didn't want you to feel as if you were controlling a trained and disciplined assasin or a veteran warrior.
sublimit
Banned
I'd honestly like to know which games people think control worse than The Last Guardian, because I'd say it's a damn sight worse than all the usual offenders. I'm talking purely about the boy's controls here. GTA V and IV, RDR, the Assassin's Creed games, Witcher 3 before the alternative controls patch; they all feel like garbage due to unresponsive controls and animation priority, but they might as well be razor sharp platformers compared to TLG. I mean, maybe if you go back to early 3D days before the industry had worked out how to do this stuff you'd find something that competes, but that's hardly a point in TLG's favour
Hell, I went back and played Ico right after TLG, and that kid controls like a dream compared to TLG boy. Night and day. TLG's shitty controls aren't just a 'Team ICO thing'.
Curious. I didn't have a problem with the controls in TLG nor any of those games you listed either (though I've only played the Assassin's Creed games as far as AC2). I would not consider any of them unresponsive, and certainly not to the point of feeling like garbage (!)
Maybe it really is just certain players having a peculiarly low level of patience/tolerance.
Greatest Ever
Member
Right, and you've been playing since 1986. Skip a few decades by any chance?
That's a strange excuse, doesn't make sense to have realism in how a character controls given their background, then have that same ten year old looking kid jumping from platforms and climbing towers tall enough to make even Nathan Drake think twice. Same with Trico, doesn't make sense to have him resist my every command 90% of the time then have him effortlessly work out the correct route before I have for the other 10%. Some of the button configurations are poor as well, for example assigning circle to the mirror as well as petting Trico when a lot of the time you'll be doing both in close proximity to him, why would this have intentionally been done because you're playing as a kid? Regardless of whatever reasons people think up, this game just has poor controls, given the creators history of making games with poor controls I really don't think this was intentional.
Thing on a Spring
Member
Nuno Pinto
Member
I'd honestly like to know which games people think control worse than The Last Guardian, because I'd say it's a damn sight worse than all the usual offenders. I'm talking purely about the boy's controls here. GTA V and IV, RDR, the Assassin's Creed games, Witcher 3 before the alternative controls patch; they all feel like garbage due to unresponsive controls and animation priority, but they might as well be razor sharp platformers compared to TLG. I mean, maybe if you go back to early 3D days before the industry had worked out how to do this stuff you'd find something that competes, but that's hardly a point in TLG's favour
Hell, I went back and played Ico right after TLG, and that kid controls like a dream compared to TLG boy. Night and day. TLG's shitty controls aren't just a 'Team ICO thing'.
I had way more troubles with the controls in the bolded games than I had with TLG, especially ICO.
Well, he's your friend, not your horse
You got a point there lol
But feels really cool riding it though.
Controlling Geralt, John Marston or the GTAIV dude in a tight space was a nightmare.
butman
Member
Greatest Ever
Member
Centuries? Millennia?
Only play one other video game since then, which might have been Shape the Hedgehog?
Go to the University of Hyperbole, class of 1986?
Curious minds want to know.
sublimit
Banned
I know you're going to say that this is just another excuse but personally i thought that the developers intentions were to make the kid feel clumsy in order to feel more like a (beautifully animated) kid but at the same time they didn't wanted to punish you for his clumsiness since that had nothing to do with the player's skill so therefore they designed him to withstand falls from big heights because that type of game over screen would have been indeed frustrating.Also just like in the previous Team Ico games i feel that their characters are designed in a way that their controls and animations feel realistic but in a fairy tale context where heroes can still perform unrealistic deeds and actions.
Greatest Ever
Member
Ok?