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The LGBT Trump Fallacy (New York Times)

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The New York Times said:
It was a jarringly unorthodox moment even for Donald Trump. At a rally in Colorado last October, an audience member handed him a gay pride flag that bore a handwritten endorsement: “LGBTs for TRUMP.” The candidate smiled as he unfurled the flag, displaying it for a few seconds. A spokesman later said Mr. Trump was “proud to carry the ‘L.G.B.T. for Trump’ rainbow flag on stage,” since he was campaigning to be “president for all Americans.”

It didn’t take long for prominent gay Republicans to proclaim that the Republican Party had, at long last, turned a corner on gay rights under Mr. Trump… Yet, the nomination of several key officials, who have disparaged the L.G.B.T. community and sought to curtail the rights of its members, has exposed the narrative that Mr. Trump would be a champion of gay and transgender people as a fallacy.

Yet, the nomination of several key officials, who have disparaged the L.G.B.T. community and sought to curtail the rights of its members, has exposed the narrative that Mr. Trump would be a champion of gay and transgender people as a fallacy. “It has been a catastrophe,” said Mara Keisling, the executive director of the National Center for Transgender Equality and a leading strategist behind a string of legal and policy victories the community achieved during the Obama administration. “Every twitch we’ve seen from the administration has been anti-L.G.B.T
…
The Department of Health and Human Services, which worked to expand access to health care for gay and transgender Americans, is now being led by Tom Price, who was a vocal opponent of gay rights as a congressman. The agency’s civil rights office, which oversaw regulatory changes that made it easier for transgender people to get insurance coverage for medical care, is now run by Roger Severino, an ultraconservative activist who last year accused the Obama administration of attempting to “coerce everyone, including children, into pledging allegiance to a radical new gender ideology.”

Mr. Obama’s last secretary of the Army, Eric Fanning, an openly gay man, was instrumental in nudging the Pentagon brass to allow transgender people to serve openly. Mark Green, a Tennessee state senator nominated to replace him, last year called being transgender a “disease.”
...
For the foreseeable future, the federal courts are likely to be the only avenue for progress. It’s not too late, of course, for Mr. Trump to act like the transformational Republican on gay rights that some of his supporters hoped he would be. He could, for instance, urge Congress to pass a federal anti-discrimination bill. Yet his record of empty talk makes that seem as unlikely as the sight of a Republican presidential candidate waving a gay pride flag.

It needs to be constantly made clear that Trump and his administration are not friends to LGBTQ+ people. There's alot of rhetoric floating around about how Trump might have some "liberal ideologies" or is apathetic toward LGBTQ+ issues. This is false. He is actively adversarial to LGBTQ+ people and grants position, power and praise to vehement opponents of LGBTQ+ peoples. He's backed the completely backward First Amendment Defense Act. His acclaim of Putin is in turn acclaim for his lackey Ramzan Kadyrov, leader of the republic of Chechnya where LGBTQ+ people are currently being imprisoned and murdered. Please do not be fooled; under Trump's America, LGBTQ+ ARE in danger. Donate, protest, and vote because otherwise, this administration will do everything in its power to make the lives of those outside the category of cis and hetorosexual hell.

NYT

SUPPORT:
ACLU
Human Rights Campaign
Lambda Legal
National Center for Lesbian Rights
The Trevor Project
Trans Lifeline
Transgender Law Center
National Center for Transgender Equality
GLAAD
National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs
 

Razmos

Member
I mean his running man Pence wants to give all homosexuals electroshock therapy.

That should have been more than enough of a red flag (a rainbow one, covered in blood) to indicate to people he was not an ally.

Also he's a fucking republican they are all inhuman, backward assholes. The fact that Trumps allegiance to the LGBT community is still a question is laughable to me.

Anyone who voted for him or didn't vote against him is an idiot and a traitor to a progressive society in my opinion.

And the amount of contempt i have for "LGBT's for Trump" is literally beyond words.
 
This was scathingly obvious from the onset. Anyone who thought otherwise is willfully ignorant and/or outrageously stupid.
 
LGBT activists are amongst the most ardent and experienced on Earth, the fact that mobility against the Trump adminstration is so slow-witted right now is disappointing, but the more he spits the face of the LGBT community, the more he will come to realise it is something that cannot be ignored in the US.
 

Dishwalla

Banned
People believing in Trump siding with the LGBT because he held a flag got played Mr. Burns running for governor style.
 

SoulUnison

Banned
I don't understand how any could have pointed to that photo in the first place as a gesture of "support."

In every picture of him and that flag his body language is so blatantly uncomfortable and pandering.
He looks like he's ashamed to have to touch the thing and can't wait for the moment to be over.

President-Elect-Supports-LGBT-Community-Holds-Rainbow-Flag-At-Colorado-Rally-LGBT-For-Trump.jpg

carlo-allegri-donald-trump-lgbt-flag-2016-presidential-election.jpg

sub-buzz-16407-1478017672-8.jpg

His eyebrows just scream "This is the game I have to play."
 

PBalfredo

Member
Wait, where there actually people who thought Trump would be pro-LGBT and wasn't just being sarcastic to point fun at the awkward and transparent photo op?
 
Trump holding up that rainbow flag meant exactly as much as when he told people to "look at my African-American over here". It was boasting about a diversity of supporters, not expressing support for a diversity of people. There's a really big difference.

At the RNC, he also invoked the LGBTQ community in the wake of the Orlando shooting, but only to say he'd protect them from "foreign ideologies", ie Muslims. Because hey, we all know that Muslims are the real threat to LGBT people in the US. Bringing Mike fucking Pence on as the VP should have been a neon red flag that he wasn't actually going to push pro-LGBT policies in the slightest.

Anyone who genuinely thought Trump would be a true pro-LGBT president either had a hell of a set of blinders on or is a gullible fucking moron. This was apparent from the beginning and I'm disappointed that people still think it's necessary to write articles explaining this.
 
Wait, where there actually people who thought Trump would be pro-LGBT and wasn't just being sarcastic to point fun at the awkward and transparent photo op?

Yes. Many, sadly.

One major group were Log Cabin Republicans and gay republicans in general

Huffington Post said:
Gregory T. Angelo, president of LCR, told Reuters in December, ”He is one of the best, if not the best, pro-gay Republican candidates to ever run for the presidency."

”He's been to a gay wedding, he's friends with George Takei," Angelo explained to Chris Matthews a few days earlier on MSNBC. (Takei, by the way, has repeatedly lambasted Trump for his rhetoric.) ”His record doesn't bear out that that would be an enemy to the gay community."

Reuters said:
Pax Hart, a 45-year-old software engineer in New York, was a Rand Paul supporter and low-dollar donor until he saw video of Trump's immigration speech in Phoenix, Arizona, this summer. Where some voters see xenophobia in Trump's promise to build a wall between the United States and Mexico and his proposal to put a moratorium on Muslims traveling to the United States, Hart, who is gay, says he sees policies that would prevent dilution of LGBT rights in the country.

”We are importing people who are the absolute most hostile to gays and lesbians," Hart said of discrimination against LGBT citizens in some Middle Eastern and Latin American countries. ”We're bringing in people who are indoctrinated that gays [should be] exterminated."

As Hart points out, Trump is hardly emphasizing his positions on gay rights or social issues as he seeks the nomination in a party heavily influenced by religious conservatives.

”It's not that he's an advocate or anything like that," Hart said. ”It's not an issue for him. It's about fairness for him."

...

Trump, too, opposes same-sex marriage. But he criticized the Kentucky clerk, and, in an interview with The Hollywood Reporter this year, he condemned Republican candidates who called for a reversal of the court's judgment.

”Anybody that's making that an issue is doing it for political reasons," he said. ”The Supreme Court ruled on it."

Of course, Trump's moderation on gay rights won't bring him many votes from LGBT Democrats. Boasting a more tolerant record than the rest of the Republican Party hardly merits a medal, they say.

People often point to that Trump line about the Supreme court in particular as some sort of signal that he won't interfere in the lives of LGBTQ+ peoples when the exact opposite is true.

Also this imbecile who contributed to The Hill who is one of the administrators for the LGBTrump group:
The Hill said:
Donald Trump had no sooner delivered his victory speech and my Facebook page — LGBTrump (the largest gays for Trump Facebook page) — was inundated with messages from LGBT Americans fearful that the president-elect would take away their rights.

Why were so many messages pouring in? The LGBT Left was off the rails telling the LGBT community that its rights — especially marriage — were on the chopping block under President-elect Trump.

”This morning, LGBTQ people — particularly young people and their parents — woke up scared and filled with questions about our country and their place in it," Sarah McBride, national spokeswoman for the LGBT Left Human Rights Campaign, said. McBride added that ”much of our community's progress over the last eight years is at risk after yesterday's election."
But what progress was McBride talking about? What exactly would a President Trump take away from the 14% of LGBT citizens that voted for him, this author included?

There are no signs that the LGBT community will be in the crosshairs of a Trump administration. In fact that evidence is just the opposite.

...
”Only weeks ago, in Orlando, Florida, 49 wonderful Americans were savagely murdered by an Islamic terrorist. This time, the terrorist targeted LGBTQ community," Trump told the Republican delegates. ”As your president, I will do everything in my power to protect our LGBTQ citizens from the violence and oppression of a hateful foreign ideology."

During the same convention, Trump asked gay Silicon Valley tycoon Peter Thiel to address the Republican delegates. Thiel accepted then and is now a part of Trump's transition team. And now Trump is said to be considering Richard Grenell, an openly gay man, to be his ambassador to the U.N.

Trump, therefore, does not fit the LGBT Left narrative about Republican politicians. This narrative holds that since the Moral Majority of the 1980s the entire Republican Party is connected to the bromance of Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell.

HuffPo
Reuters
The Hill
 
If you're a minority of any kind, here's a pro tip.

If black women en masse aren't supporting a candidate, then chances are really fucking high you shouldn't be either.
 
The fact that Mike Pence was his running mate was evidence enough for me that he wasn't being sincere. Yet I've had someone (who wasn't LGBT because of course not) trying to reassure me after the election that LGBT rights were safe because he held a fucking flag once.

Plus, he said he'd sign FADA if that ended up in front of him, right? So there's that, his anti-LGBT appointees, and his hand in rolling back those guidelines for transgender students. How much more do his LGBT supporters need before they get a clue?
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
No surprise for people with a brain. The "Trump is pro-LGBT" is another group of total dupes. His running mate is Mike fucking Pence ...

My god a lot of people bent over backwards to assume this halfwit was something more than he appeared to be.

Oh he's really anti-establishment, pro-LGBT, he'll tell the truth about 9/11 as inside job, he'll drain the swamp, he'll tell the bankers to fuck off, he'll throw away NAFTA and defeat ISIS and make anime real.

Lies. Clear as day lies. And many of us knew it at the time. Sorry Trump dummies, you should have listened to the "cucks". They knew better than your dumb asses.
 

Dali

Member
This was scathingly obvious from the onset. Anyone who thought otherwise is willfully ignorant and/or outrageously stupid.
I mean he held a flag for a few seconds. That's literally the only example of Trump's stance given in the article. So this huge fallacy and article is based on him holding a flag for a few seconds? That's pretty shaky and seems kinda exaggerated just to have a reason to site things he has done that are anti lgbt.

Did he go around saying he'd champion lgbt rights or something? Is there some reason other than him holding a flag for a few seconds people were to believe he had some sort of pro point of view?
 

jay

Member
I will save the Times some time: Conservatives dislike minorities.

Next time something comes up, just check this post. If you are writing about a hispanic, asian, or gay conservative, throw the word "other" into the sentence.
 
To be fair on one point: the DoD did just release guidance for transgender awareness to the military. That is something and I am a bit surprised it happened under Mattis.
 
As far as I am aware, even the LCR have backtracked significantly concerning their attitude to the Trump presidency over the past month or two - particularly in terms of transgender issues.
 
Did he go around saying he'd champion lgbt rights or something? Is there some reason other than him holding a flag for a few seconds people were to believe he had some sort of pro point of view?

Some money donated 20 years ago and some penny-ante statements but as we know, Trump will lie to Jesus's face if it would make him look good/enlightened.

The Hill said:
In the 1980s & 1990s Trump donated heavily to charities that focused on the AIDS outbreak. When he floated a third party presidential run in 1999 he went on record saying he would consider adding sexual orientation to the Civil Rights Act. Trump is also believed to be the first private club owner in Palm Beach — in this case Mar-a-Lago — to admit a gay couple. This is not the resume of an LGBT foe.

Fast forward to the 2016 election and Trump's view of the LGBT community remained unchanged. In June 2015 he forcefully condemned the terror attack at Pulse nightclub, a LGBT club. In condemning this attack, Trump bravely spoke an ugly truth many in the elite dare not speak – radical Islam and the LGBT community do not mix. Trump took this truth to Cleveland when he vowed to protect the LGBT community.

...

”It's irrelevant because it was already settled. It's law. It was settled in the Supreme Court. I mean it's done," Trump told Lesley Stahl when the CBS reporter asked the president-elect whether he supported marriage equality.

Trump doubled down and suggested he would not appoint judges that would seek to overturn the ruling. ”It's done. It-- you have-- these cases have gone to the Supreme Court. They've been settled. And, I'm fine with that."

”I'm fine with that" surely does not fit the talking points being promulgated by the LGBT Left. Here was the president-elect, a man who has long been compared to Hitler by progressives, saying he was fine with marriage equality. What did the LGBT community have to fear if their right to marriage was safe?
---
As far as I am aware, even the LCR have backtracked significantly concerning their attitude to the Trump presidency over the past month or two - particularly in terms of transgender issues.

The attitude change of Log Cabin Republicans means little in the face of the fact that they supported his presidency and even voted for him. It's nice that the scales have fallen from their eyes but Trump's in power now due to their contributions. The people he's hired are putting every resource they have into anti-LGBTQ+ legislation. Either they show that they actually care by ditching the bigot riddled party and put support toward actual progressive politicians and policy or their words are just as empty as Trump's. Hell, I can't even say that any Trump supporter was "fooled" because I'd hope people would be a lot more intelligent than to trust Trump of all people but I guess party loyalty just blinded them.
 

Dude Abides

Banned
Well duh. Trump just used LGBT people as a cudgel to beat Muslims. That's all he or most conservatives are doing when they pretend to care about LGBT issues (or women for that matter).
 
When that flag thing happened, an acquaintance of mine used it as evidence that Trump was an advocate for LGBTQ rights, as if I was completely wrong about Trump- as if I was the dumbass. A lot of stuff that goes on with Trump is concerning at best, but that moment really pissed me off.

He is amoral. Nothing matters to him other than projecting strength.
 

dan2026

Member
It blows my mind that anyone ever trusted Trump on anything his said.

I swear you would have to live on a rock in the farthest corner of space to not see he is a perpetual liar.
 

Snagret

Member
As far as I am aware, even the LCR have backtracked significantly concerning their attitude to the Trump presidency over the past month or two - particularly in terms of transgender issues.
They can choke on their "attitude change". LCRs are basically gay Uncle Toms, they catapult themselves into a comfortable position in society by hanging their own minority group out to dry. It's laughable some of them even pretend to care about LGBT issues, and even moreso that they'd feign surprise at the Trump's admin stance on these issues considering how fucking obvious it would be to anybody who took even a cursory glance at his personnel picks. Or you know, his own views on minority rights in general.
 
It doesn't matter what anyone's gender or sexual orientation is; If you believed Trump on this issue, you are stupid and stupid crosses all social boundaries.
 

Dali

Member
When that flag thing happened, an acquaintance of mine used it as evidence that Trump was an advocate for LGBTQ rights, as if I was completely wrong about Trump- as if I was the dumbass. A lot of stuff that goes on with Trump is concerning at best, but that moment really pissed me off.

He is amoral. Nothing matters to him other than projecting strength.
The flag he was holding said "lgbt for trump" not the other way around. He was advertising the endorsement like when he pointed to his "african American friend" at a rally. Of course he's always happy to brag about his minority endorsements. Doesn't mean shit about his stance on issues relevant to them.

I really don't see how that moment fooled anybody. Trump been playing that "I'm a friend of teh blacks" thing all campaign and as a whole I doubt negroes bought it. Your friend sounds like a real doofus.

Edit:

Screenshot_20170427_074717.jpg


Ummm... i hope whatever ad data is gleaned from this thread isn't gonna follow me everywhere.
 
Does Trump even interact with LGBT people? I get he held a flag, but I assume he won't shake hands. (Or yank them, for that matter.)

Well apparently he went to a gay wedding and is """friends""" with George Takei. In the minds of some of the deluded people, it's the equivalent of Trump coming out of the closet himself. Not at all just a case of a rich celebrity going simply knowing other celebrities.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Log cabin Republicans are the most Stockholm syndrome people in America. And every time they say, "this guy will be different" or "he's just pandering to the bible belt, he'll be a quiet advocate"

They continue to be a well organized joke.
 

RPGCrazied

Member
If anyone thought he was a champion for the LBGT, you're just plain stupid, sorry. He never was for this community, nor is the Republican party.
 
I'm supposed to go to a baptism reception for a cousin's child next week. The only picture I've ever seen of this kid was her in a MAGA onesie on inauguration day. Her entire family are Trumpingtons. I have no idea how I'm supposed to walk in there with my husband and act like they're not superfans of someone who is going to have a clearly negative effect on my life. On one hand, it's not like people have to think "what about gay Waylon?" in the voting booths but, on the other, I can't just NOT know who they support.
 
I'm supposed to go to a baptism reception for a cousin's child next week. The only picture I've ever seen of this kid was her in a MAGA onesie on inauguration day. Her entire family are Trumpingtons. I have no idea how I'm supposed to walk in there with my husband and act like they're not superfans of someone who is going to have a clearly negative effect on my life. On one hand, it's not like people have to think "what about gay Waylon?" in the voting booths but, on the other, I can't just NOT know who they support.

It must be much worse with family. Worst I have it is that I can't say I'm pansexual at work because I know 60% of the staff voted Trump and I have to continue to work alongside/act friendly with them. I'm sure some of my extended family did as well but don't really visit Facebook anymore so they'd have to tell me straight up if they did.
 

jstripes

Banned
The fact that the LGBT flag Trump posed with was upside down, which internationally means something in distress, should have been a premonition.
 

Keasar

Member
The fact that the LGBT flag Trump posed with was upside down, which internationally means something in distress, should have been a premonition.

....Holy shit I never thought of that it was. Was it a silent call for help from whomever wrote the text on it?
 
The fact that people are constantly fooled and surprised by Trump is very bizarre to me. Just look and listen to this guy. Does he seem like someone that would care about LGBT people? Does he look like he cares about anyone or anything but his own agenda? Look at the people he has surrounded himself with (Pence, Bannon etc)
It's just so clear that he is an incredibly self centred individual and cares nothing of others.
 

Lambtron

Unconfirmed Member
Like, I have a large number of queer friends. Not a single one has ever referred to themselves en masse as "LGBT's." Like Jesus Christ.
 
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