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[TGO]

The Wii U is not current gen, its ram is 20% Nextgen its GPU is 10% Nextgen and its CPU is 10% last gen
Its only the games that look current gen
Nextgen has truly arrived!

But seriously, Wii U is classed as Nextgen because its the Wii's successor, simple as that

 

[mujun]

You realize there have been thousands of pages on GAF exhausted discussing this particular set of semantics, yes? But yes, the term 'generation' generally relates to time in some capacity. Why? Because it's a simple method and doesn't require the sort of provisos and caveats other methods would.

Guess what, I haven't been involved in those threads. I was legitimately asking what the criteria were. That is why I happily conceded to yourself and the other two posters.

I said it was semantics because my argument was getting tangled up in defining something I have no interest in defining.

 

[Vinci]

Guess what, I haven't been involved in those threads. I was legitimately asking what the criteria were. That is why I happily conceded to yourself and the other two posters.

I said it was semantics because my argument was getting tangled up in defining something I have no interest in defining.

Then consider my post as further explanation of the problems facing 'semantics' on this forum.

 

[squidyj]

Which gen was the Wii then? In your opinion?

before it launched and during the start of it it was previous gen, it transitioned to concurrent gen with ps360 when we began discussing it in a more historical context because the time signifier became then more important than the information gleaned from a hardware focused model

It really just feels like an absolute agenda for people to see the wii u in a certain way. From my perspective the agenda is being held by those who want to consider the wii u as a next gen console when it doesn't constitute to a generational leap in hardware. The proponents of calling the Wii U next-gen seem to me to be generating a false equivalency of capability with respect to the other two as yet unreleased consoles which strongly indicate a true generational leap in hardware performance.

 

[_illmatic_]

One question that I've been pondering is will the Wii U successor be marginally better than the Wii U or is it the GCN>>Wii transition that was the only "under powered" console. Will every Nintendo console here forth be a big jump in performance like Wii >> Wii U?

Seems they'll be able to do so with Sony and Microsoft always in the lead with raw horsepower.

 

[Vinci]

before it launched and during the start of it it was previous gen, it transitioned to concurrent gen with ps360 when we began discussing it in a more historical context because the time signifier became then more important than the information gleaned from a hardware focused model

It really just feels like an absolute agenda for people to see the wii u in a certain way. From my perspective the agenda is being held by those who want to consider the wii u as a next gen console when it doesn't constitute to a generational leap in hardware. The proponents of calling the Wii U next-gen seem to me to be generating a false equivalency of capability with respect to the other two as yet unreleased consoles which strongly indicate a true generational leap in hardware performance.

The reverse is also true, though.

 

[chertipros]

One question that I've been pondering is will the Wii U successor be marginally better than the Wii U or is it the GCN>>Wii transition that was the only "under powered" console. Will every Nintendo console here forth be a big jump in performance like Wii >> Wii U?

Seems they'll be able to do so with Sony and Microsoft always in the lead with raw horsepower.

No one can predict these things with nintendo.
And to answer the OP, yes. But not because of the tech specs. I think the 8th generation of consoles (wii u, next box, PS4) will carry on the same shitty business practices, with devs making the same kind of games they did this gen, targeting the same kind of gamers, and etc. It will basically be the same as this gen but with newer consoles

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

Judging by The Last of Us, the current boxes still have plenty to give. Plus, this is the first holiday they'll be at mass market prices, they've got plenty of sales life left in them. I'm cool with it if they hold off until 2014.

 

[Pachinko]

Nintendo has simply made a shift in marketing and console development- in the past there was an endless race to supply more power and create better looking games. I think that kind of peaked with the PS2 audience wise, nintendo saw an unprofitable future chasing that power dragon so they went for functionality instead- make a device that's a leap forward in the way it's played rather then how it looks. They are a company that cares first and foremost about making money not being the best looking - to that end they've waited perhaps 2 years longer then I'm sure they COULD have to release the wii U, a system which is essentially a Wii in high definition- catching up with the competition in the power spec race while also adding yet another new way to play games with a tablet controller. I really do feel as though the power race was 95% of the way to the top with xbox/gamecube/ps2 and because of diminishing returns with graphics I'd say we are now at 98% with the 360/ps3/wii U. Games will look better sure but the importance of looks will matter less because the 3d graphics have hit a point for awhile now of "good enough". This is why the wii sold millions despite looking not much better then ps2 graphics - the average consumer cared more about playing fun games for low prices. Some of these people have since gotten bored and moved onto a 360 or a ps3 but even then these devices get used to watch netflix or blurays more then they get played.

There are many factors as to the length of a generation and few factors as to when one ends and the other begins- I'd say it's quite literally and simply a case of when new hardware comes out.

For Nintendo the NES was on it's own from 85-91, the snes went from 91-96, n64 from 96-01 , gamecube from 01-06 and now the wii will have lasted from 06-12, it's a stable 6 year timeframe for each nintendo console generation. Going by north american release dates of course.

Sega by comparison had the genesis available 89-95 , saturn from 95-98 and dreamcast from 99-01 , 1 very succesful console meant a nice long life ... followed by 2 less successful consoles.

Sony saw the playstation last from 95-00, ps2 from 00-06 and so far the ps3 will likely be 06-13/14 maybe. 6-7 years for the first 2 and 7 or 8 years for the most recent.

Basically nintendo will just release a new game system every 6 years like clockwork and sony likes to just release a new toy whenever it feels it has to , so far to support new formats (dvd/bluray) or bring new life into old formats (cdrom).

Microsoft is the odd duck of the bunch because with the original xbox they had only 1 goal- get a foothold , that's it. They got their name out there and it worked.

The 360 had the goal of making money which it has also done but it's taken almost the entire 7 years of availability to do so. I will be very surprised if we don't see a limited launch of a new xbox next winter , 8 years to the day from the 360 launch I'd wager.

 

[Box]

There is quite literally no such thing as "that's just how it is" in terms of language communicating information. Generation means what the people involved in the conversation understand it to mean in the context of the discussion, no more and no less, it is not some fixed constant throughout eternity ever unchanging it is DECIDED by everyone who uses the term in their daily conversations and yes, They very often use it to refer to a generation of hardware performance in large part because it is a definition that carries the most useful information. Get over it.

I really don't see a good reason to define console generation strictly in terms of hardware power except for the purposes of leaving Nintendo out of "next-gen".

Console specs don't really fit neatly into discrete 'generations'. You get consoles that are in between generations and consoles that have certain specs that are more modern than others. It's a mess. And more importantly, it doesn't accurately reflect the hardware specs of each machine.

On the other hand, the idea of discrete 'generations' fits when you use it to describe consoles that are major competitors to each other. New consoles are released from all major competitors at regular 4-6 year intervals and every competitor has exactly one console per generation. If you look at it that way, everything lines up evenly and you get a much more accurate picture of what consoles have come out over time: more accurate than what you would get by trying to understand the hardware power of each console in terms of distinct generations.

So, no. I don't think it does carry any particularly useful information. I think it's a buzz word that Sony used to try to discredit the consoles of its competitors.

 

[Crazyorloco]

Seems they'll be able to do so with Sony and Microsoft always in the lead with raw horsepower.

It's just a "recent" (this gen) trend. PS1 wasn't powerful compared to N64. And the PS2/Dreamcast wasn't as powerful as the Gamecube/Xbox. I feel like Nintendo is the most unpredictable when it comes to determining their new consoles power. Who knows these days, innovation seems to be driving the industry, not graphics anymore.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

The only way WiiU will drag on this gen is if third parties start basing their next gen engines on the system. But things like the Unreal 4 engine will be based on MS and Sony's next system and at best WiiU will get degraded ports. How third parties support the system is the big unknown. Lets face it, Nintendo hasn't seen full third party support since the SNES.

We know that MS and Sony will get full true third party support but if WiiU doesn't it will be like all other Nintendo systems in the last 20 years and people pick them up for Nintendo games only.

 

[Sickboy007]

Microsoft and Sony should let it hang for a little while. Wii U won't outcompete PS360 if priced higher.

 

[ekim]

My fear : New games will look like this gen for the next 5 years because of devs wanting to publish them on all next gen systems including WiiU. (Nothing against the WiiU though)

 

[BradleyLove]

The power of Wii U doesn't matter, you just don't want to give Nintendo more than a year head start.

You really think tens of millions of gamers are going to completely desert their XBL Profile/Gamerscore/Achievements or PSN Profile/Trophies and "defect" to a machine that's isn't a generational leap over what they already have?

I think folks seriously underestimate the draw of achievements/trophies. MS especially have been very clever with this as they knew it'd become a hook.

 

[RagnarokX]

A gen behind the 360/PS3 in terms of power. Are generations dictated by time?

Here's the history of video games with lists of the consoles in every generation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_video_games

• Generation 1: Magnavox Odyssey | Pong units | Coleco Telstar series | Nintendo Color TV Game
  
• Generation 2: Fairchild Channel F | RCA Studio II | Atari 2600 | Bally Astrocade | Magnavox Odyssey² | Intellivision | Emerson Arcadia 2001 | ColecoVision | Atari 5200 | Vectrex | Sega SG-1000
  
• Generation 3: Famicom | Sega SG-1000 Mark III | Atari 7800 | Nintendo Entertainment System | Sega Master System
  
• Generation 4: PC-Engine | Sega Mega Drive | TurboGrafx 16 | Sega Genesis | PC-Engine SuperGrafx | Neo Geo AES | Super Famicom | Super Nintendo Entertainment System | Philips CD-i | Atari Jaguar | Game Boy | Lynx | Game Gear | Turbo Express
  
• Generation 5: 3DO | NEC PC-FX | Sega Saturn | Sony PlayStation | Nintendo 64 | Apple Bandai Pippin | Sega Nomad | Gameboy Color | Wonderswan | NeoGeo Pocket
  
• Generation 6: Sega Dreamcast | Sony PlayStation 2 | Microsoft Xbox | Nintendo GameCube | GBA | N-Gage
  
• Generation 7: Microsoft Xbox 360 | Sony PlayStation 3 | Wii | DS | PSP
  
• Generation 8: 3DS | Vita | WiiU
  

 

[Ranger X]

My fear : New games will look like this gen for the next 5 years because of devs wanting to publish them on all next gen systems including WiiU. (Nothing against the WiiU though)

Or the WiiU could get "Dreamcasted" by a more powerful PS4 or Xbox 720...

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Or the WiiU could get "Dreamcasted" by a more powerful PS4 or Xbox 720...

How many publishers created their next gen game engines on the Dreamcast?

 

[Ocaso]

How many publishers created their next gen game engines on the Dreamcast?

Both the Quake 3 engine and Unreal Engine were ported to the Dreamcast, and they were essentially the modern engines of the time. The DC was no slouch, being well ahead of the PS1 and Saturn in hardware capabilities, and perhaps capable enough to compete with the PS2 as well. We'll never know because support for it was abruptly dropped, but DC software eclipsed PS1 and Saturn software handily.

I don't think the Dreamcast comparisons will apply to Nintendo in any scenario simply because, even if it were to face loss of mindshare and third party support following the launch of the next Xbox and Playstation, Nintendo will not abandon support for it because they are in a much different state financially than Sega was at the time.

Sony are going to be nuked in Japan by the WiiU. It'll replace the PS3 quite easily and Sony should have PS4 in 2013. They need it there to compete, otherwise they'll give Nintendo a 2 Christmas lead. Disastrous, and if WiiU looks to be a hit - Japanese Third Parties will jump on it; by which the PS4 might be in major trouble. God forbid theres no release by E3 2014!

Rest of the world is a bit different and less 'tied up'; 360 should keep selling to some degree and the PS3 might do okay (neither doing great, but still relevant). I think MS could push to 2014, same with Sony.


Important to remember though this won't be a great sales year if the above were the case. Its just however not worth spending huge amounts of money to ensure a 2013 release, if 2014 is possible.

This is a great point, and one I hadn't considered. Given that this is pretty much a two horse race in Japan, it doesn't seem feasible for Sony to give Nintendo a two year lead. That might mean a 2013 launch is almost necessary for Sony, at least in Japan. Interesting to think we might get one new console per year for the next three years!

 

[OldJadedGamer]

This is a great point, and one I hadn't considered. Given that this is pretty much a two horse race in Japan, it doesn't seem feasible for Sony to give Nintendo a two year lead. That might mean a 2013 launch is almost necessary for Sony, at least in Japan. Interesting to think we might get one new console per year for the next three years!

Speaking of Dreamcast, Sony gave Sega two holidays in Japan but Nintendo isn't Sega over there. It is true that if the PS4 isn't released in 2013 then Sony gives up Japan to Nintendo hands down. Japanese developers aren't as fast with tech so I could see the WiiU being the main system for Japanese publishers where as the new Sony and MS being the main systems for Western publishers.

 

[KojiKnight]

Honestly, I think the OP gave a pretty valid question... the Wii undoubtedly gave extra live to the PS2 to the Wii's detriment. The PS2 continued to get sports titles/WWE/etc games for years after the PS3 was out, and in turn the Wii got shafted... Being that these were already "budget" titles with already small budgets, games weren't designed for Wii and ported down but rather they were made for PS2 and straight ported to the Wii.

This made a lot of Wii games look on-par or worse than PS2 only furthering the perception that Wii games looked terrible...

This same thing could happen to the Wii U, and again it will be to it's detriment. With the increase in development cost to PS4720, developers are going to look to offset that with cheap/quick Wii U games... games that would work just as well on PS360 if they tune it down. At that point, why put the extra effort to make the Wii U's look better? Just another quick straight port to the Wii U, maybe add a map to the controller and bam, quick cash-in.

 

[Glass Joe]

Or the WiiU could get "Dreamcasted" by a more powerful PS4 or Xbox 720...

Always a possibility. I had a college roomate with a dreamcast and it was pretty cool at the time. But Sega had really taken some missteps that reduced customer confidence beforehand with the Sega CD, 32X, and Saturn. Buying one felt like a risk just because Sega seemed to drop support for their stuff on a whim. The Wii is the generation's leader and Nintendo's most successful home console. Momentum is down on the Wii brand lately but it's certainly got more than Sega did with Saturn. And other than the misunderstood and poorly executed Virtual Boy, Nintendo's never had that kind of blemish on their record.

I consider the U "next gen" but it could help extend the current generation. If 3rd parties decide to make mid-budget U games their main SKU, quick and easy ports to 360/PS3 would surely be possible, keeping those boxes with a large userbase active.

And especially if the next-next gen doesn't occur till 2014 (plus at a high entry price) - that's a lot of time before the new consoles get fully established in homes anyway.

 

[Brera]

Nah the PS2/Xbox/Wii generation was the longest.

2000-2012

 

[KojiKnight]

Nah the PS2/Xbox/Wii generation was the longest.

2000-2012

Too late, someone already made that joke AND did it better on the first page.

 

[Mondriaan]

The Wii U is not current gen, its ram is 20% Nextgen its GPU is 10% Nextgen and its CPU is 10% last gen
Its only the games that look current gen
Nextgen has truly arrived!

But seriously, Wii U is classed as Nextgen because its the Wii's successor, simple as that

I think the point of the next gen graphics engines is that they reduce the cost of development (that as a side-effect requires beefier hardware). If they port those next-gen games to the wii u, those savings go out the window or the wii u versions are going to look awful.

 

[Brera]

Too late, someone already made that joke AND did it better on the first page.

But I wasn't joking...!

 

[manueldelalas]

Nah the PS2/Xbox/Wii generation was the longest.

2000-2012

You forgot the Dreamcast, or you consider it from the N64-PS1 generation?

 

[Brera]

You forgot the Dreamcast, or you consider it from the N64-PS1 generation?

What's a Dreamcast?

 

[KojiKnight]

I think the point of the next gen graphics engines is that they reduce the cost of development (by requiring beefier hardware). If they port those next-gen games to the wii u, those savings go out the window or the wii u versions are going to look awful.

As stated elsewhere, all the current crop of next gen engines are generally very scalable as long as the hardware supports a certain set of features, which the Wii U should since it has a modern GPU... It's not going to be like programming a PS4 game and then programming a seperate PS3 game. Most games should be able to be ported with the effects turned down.

An example: Let's say a PC game requires you to have a DX10 card... You can play these games on anything from a top of the line card that gets 60fps+ on max settings and 5fps on lowest settings without any massive rewrite to the code. We know Wii U's graphics won't be bottom tier, but we also know it won't be top tier. That said, it should have all the features necessary to play such games on "low" or "medium" equivalent. Best part is, if they are going to port a game to PC anyways, then chances are they'll already have all their software assets set up for such a transfer.

 

[IrishNinja]

Nope. Next gen starts this November.

these are facts. write them down, people.

An advantage? It has released a current hardware later than the others. Why gamers should buy the wiiU over 360/ps3 at lower price where the graphic is pretty close? For the controller? Lol.

lets say wii u is a huge failure as i think, and nintendo makes a brand new more powerful box in 2015.

were you guys here for the debut of the wii? your posts from that era would've been grand

the Wii U is current gen hardware. It is current gen.

Nah the PS2/Xbox/Wii generation was the longest.

2000-2012

What's a Dreamcast?

id like to take a moment to highlight the particularly garbage posts in this garbage thread

 

[KAL2006]

Last of Us, Puppeteer, Nino Kuni, MGS Rising, MGS Ground Zeros, Beyond, Remember Me, DmC, Last Gurdian (lol), Versus XIII (lol), God of War Ascension, Sly 4, Dishonored, Bioshock Infinite, Resident Evil 6, XCOM, COD, Assassins Creed 3, Hitman Absolution, GTA6, Epic Mickey 2, Far Cry 3, Aliens Colonial Marines, Dead Space 3, Tomb Raider, Need for Speed, Until Dawn.

Delay until 2015 for all I care, too much shit still coming as well as 3DS and Vita games too. Also got a backlog of Wii, DS, PS3 and PSP games to play. I doubt I would buy a PS4 straight away anyway, will probably wait for the slim model with a price cut.

 

[apana]

I think the point of the next gen graphics engines is that they reduce the cost of development (that as a side-effect requires beefier hardware). If they port those next-gen games to the wii u, those savings go out the window or the wii u versions are going to look awful.

They won't reduce the cost of development from where it is now. They may help to slow the rate of growth of rising development budgets that will be required for next generation. As for your Wii U point, I don't know.

 

[Josh7289]

Regardless of whatever else happens, there's no way Sony will launch long after MS this time around.

 

[Neo C.]

You really think tens of millions of gamers are going to completely desert their XBL Profile/Gamerscore/Achievements or PSN Profile/Trophies and "defect" to a machine that's isn't a generational leap over what they already have?

I think folks seriously underestimate the draw of achievements/trophies. MS especially have been very clever with this as they knew it'd become a hook.

Even all this considered, MS and Sony shouldn't give Nintendo more than a year head start.

 

[Snakeyes]

While it could happen, a delay to 2014 and beyond would be a terrible decision for Sony and Microsoft. It would not only give Wii U a huge head-start, but Nintendo would also be in perfect position to release another system just as the other two start to gain traction in the market.

 

[RagnarokX]

these are facts. write them down, people.

Well, technically the eighth generation began in 2011, but this November is the first home console of the eighth generation.

 

[IrishNinja]

You really think tens of millions of gamers are going to completely desert their XBL Profile/Gamerscore/Achievements or PSN Profile/Trophies and "defect" to a machine that's isn't a generational leap over what they already have?

I think folks seriously underestimate the draw of achievements/trophies. MS especially have been very clever with this as they knew it'd become a hook.

based on what ive seen of people jumping across platforms (bad times, system died, exclusives they wanted elsewhere etc) id say you're grossly overvaluing metagaming. it's a thing no doubt, but it alone is not not the huge system seller i think you're painting here.

having your friends tied to a certain ecosystem/online structure might be, though.

Well, technically the eighth generation began in 2011, but this November is the first home console of the eighth generation.

fair point.

 

[TAJ]

were you guys here for the debut of the wii? your posts from that era would've been grand

Wii had a new(ish) gimmick. Wii U brings nothing new to the table.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

were you guys here for the debut of the wii? your posts from that era would've been grand

When it came to third party support, the Wii was a huge failure.

 

[dgrdsv]

TL;DR: If WiiU hardware is really similar to 360/PS3, what's to stop MS/Sony from delaying their next-gen hardware to 2014?

This gen h/w and s/w sales are falling from a cliff without any Wii U on the market. The reason for MS and Sony to switch to a new h/w is the decline of sales of their current hardware not Wii U being similar to 360/PS3. Nintendo is first with Wii U because of the same reason - they were hit by declining Wii sales a year or so earlier than MS and SCE were hit by shrinking 360/PS3 sales.

 

[gryz]

When it came to third party support, the Wii was a huge failure.

everyone repeats this but is it really true? 11 of my 21 Wii games are 3rd party

 

[Shalashaska161]

I honestly wouldn't care if they delayed til 2014. I don't think Sony will, if only because they don't want Nintendo to own Japan, but Microsoft might. Especially if they want to copy the Wii U and get a tablet controller of their own, delaying to 2014 might be their only option.

 

[squidyj]

The reverse is also true, though.

I think that's the precise reason I used the phrase "from my perspective"

these are facts. write them down, people.





were you guys here for the debut of the wii? your posts from that era would've been grand







id like to take a moment to highlight the particularly garbage posts in this garbage thread

Your contributions have been absolutely stunning to the discussion. I guess it's easier pointing at and naively dismissing posts you don't agree with than it is to actually argue anything, anything at all.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

everyone repeats this but is it really true? 11 of my 21 Wii games are 3rd party

Look at the top 20 highest rated third party games and the top 20 highest selling third party games for each system then look at the top 20 selling third party games across all systems and you'll find your answer.

 

[IrishNinja]

Wii had a new(ish) gimmick. Wii U brings nothing new to the table.

we've already seen some new uses, but i'm gonna reserve judgement until its had some time to prove itself. the exact same was said prior to the wii's release.

When it came to third party support, the Wii was a huge failure.

that doesnt speak to either of the posts i was quoting, but yeah, id say sega and capcom gave it a go and few others here & there. i do think they're obviously reaching out a lot more this time though.

additionally, hardware aside, the default input device of the wii was likely pretty limiting to many devs, i think the pro controller/options this time seek to change that. i guess we'll see?

Your contributions have been absolutely stunning to the discussion. I guess it's easier pointing at and naively dismissing posts you don't agree with than it is to actually argue anything, anything at all.

if you'd said anything worth arguing, id've addressed it, rather than simply pointing at it. instead, you echoed this weird fringe opinion on what counts as next gen based solely on your metric - not much to work with there.