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[_Spr_Drnk]

I'm all for diversity in society and culture. It's when diversity of opinion is stifled on any sort of 'no platforming' basis, my hackles are raised. There's many opinions out there I don't care for, but I accept everyone has the right to expression how they see fit, as long as people who don't agree can also do so (in a non violent way), and not be shamed for it.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

They were all referring to the the nonexistent trans character when saying it went 'sjw woke'. None of the reactionaries went into the plot. I watched their vids. They don't want to get banned.

And yet one of the titles of the vids is 'Last of Us 2 Spoiler Talk'. Right.

 

[and 3 others]

They were all referring to the the nonexistent trans character when saying it went 'sjw woke'. None of the reactionaries went into the plot. I watched their vids. They don't want to get banned.

Most people you cite as 'reactionary right' are infact centrists or left leaning. They look right, because the left is soo far left.

 

[diffusionx]

THIS

The people who are complaining about "agenda" this and that are hypocritical as fuck... they are the same ones who bitched and moaned about censorship

Here’s the thing about inserting agendas like this. Not everyone agrees with it. Not everyone cheers it on. It causes division and rancor and that’s just how it goes.

SJWs will tell you that not having it is the same as having it, but that’s obvious baloney, since the Neil Druckmann/Anita Sarkeesian agenda is explicit and intentional. He has talked about it countless times. So when they say, “we will put this stuff in our games” it’s not like ND was making Jak and Daxter and was like “hey let’s not put this stuff in our games.”

So when other people say, hey I don’t like it when Druckmann puts in all this stuff he is putting in to advance a political agenda, it’s not crying about censorship, it’s discussing an agenda that he explicitly inserted into his game for political reasons.

I liked TLOU but I’m skipping this game because I’m not on board with the agenda. And I bet If you ask Druckmann he will say he’s fine with that.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

I watched one video from the list yeeeeeezy posted. It featured gigantic spoilers. You're a fucking liar and going on ignore.

It was the 'No Bullshit' one.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

It feels like they have been pushing an agenda for awhile. They haven't been to harsh about it but you can see the gradual move towards it. I do wonder if they will end up going to far with it. Reminds me of the youtuber who likes to say go woke ,go broke which I always found funny.

The story they tell with it, how the characters are will tell.

I think that I will pre-order it just in case.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

I liked TLOU but I’m skipping this game because I’m not on board with the agenda. And I bet If you ask Druckmann he will say he’s fine with that.

Twitter mob:
Hey Druckmann this guy on neogaf doesn't like your ideas so he will not buy the last of us 2, I bet he is a bigot, do something about it!

Drunkmann:
I need more coolaid.

Seriously, he should care when you write propaganda you want people to see it, if you have to they should be forced to consume it... To be sure it has the desired effect.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

I've never seen anyone explain what is "full SJW/woke" about the game without mentioning things like their being females, a "trans" or gays. People keep saying "oh well there's spoiler stuff we can't say" but I've been in that spoiler thread, none of the elements remain "woke/SJW" if characters are male and straight.

 

[n0razi]

Here’s the thing about inserting agendas like this. Not everyone agrees with it. Not everyone cheers it on. It causes division and rancor and that’s just how it goes.

SJWs will tell you that not having it is the same as having it, but that’s obvious baloney, since the Neil Druckmann/Anita Sarkeesian agenda is explicit and intentional. He has talked about it countless times. So when they say, “we will put this stuff in our games” it’s not like ND was making Jak and Daxter and was like “hey let’s not put this stuff in our games.”

So when other people say, hey I don’t like it when Druckmann puts in all this stuff he is putting in to advance a political agenda, it’s not crying about censorship, it’s discussing an agenda that he explicitly inserted into his game for political reasons.

I liked TLOU but I’m skipping this game because I’m not on board with the agenda. And I bet If you ask Druckmann he will say he’s fine with that.

Might just be me.. but this just sounds overly sensitive as fuck. Its a video game so I really dont care what the hell they want to put in it.

 

[Shin]

This belongs here I think:

Game Developer Doesn't Want 'Bigots' Playing Last of Us 2

Neil Druckmann became emotional and cried while playing Last of Us 2

nationalfile.com

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

According to Bounding Over Comics, Druckmann recalled getting emotional while playing the game: “We are still emotionally moved. I’ve just finished a play through and I was crying by the end of it.”

You won't be the only one...

 

[diffusionx]

Might just be me.. but this just sounds overly sensitive as fuck. Its a video game so I really dont care what the hell they want to put in it.

so just to be clear, you think everyone should be a floating brain above the sky like you and not care about anything? Because the thing is, Druckmann, Anita, etc. most definitely care about what they put into it, and they want you to care about it.

 

[Business]

Look at the dislikes... it's pretty crazy!

How can you cry about the same story that you already played a hundred times and you have written yourself? Amazing.

 

[n0razi]

so just to be clear, you think everyone should be a floating brain above the sky like you and not care about anything? Because the thing is, Druckmann, Anita, etc. most definitely care about what they put into it, and they want you to care about it.

Difference between caring and being offended/overly-sensitive about what others do with their property.... Druckmann/Anita can care all they want but its not going to affect me unless I let it.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

Difference between caring and being offended/overly-sensitive about what others do with their property.... Druckmann/Anita can care all they want but its not going to affect me unless I let it.

But the whole point is that it DOES effect you...



"so while working on The Last of Us, I had this secret agenda - I wanted to create one of the coolest, non-sexualized female video game protagonists. And I felt like, with The Last of Us, if we did that, there's an opportunity here to change the industry." -Neil Druckmann

Do you really believe his secret agendas stops at the work he did in the first game? Especially after having admitted to working with Anita on this one?

Make no mistake. People like Anita and Druckmann don't want to just "do things with their own property." Like most SJW's, they are absolutely out to use their positions of power to assert their political philosophy on the entire industry.

Commies, ADL, and supported by EA, teaming up for another "Gamers are Dead" scenario

https://reclaimthenet.org/no-pixels-for-fascists/ And here is where EA supporting the project And here where we have the founder of "No Pixels For Fascist" is a legitimate Commie that supported East Germany and ratted out escapees.

www.neogaf.com

So for those of us who hate this SJW crap infecting the game series we already love, sometimes even more than it already was, hitting our threshold, the only thing we can do is complain vocally about this crap wherever we see it and for those that want, vote with our wallets and not buy whatever it's in as well. But the two options aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Radical_3d]

But the whole point is that it DOES effect you...



"so while working on The Last of Us, I had this secret agenda - I wanted to create one of the coolest, non-sexualized female video game protagonists. And I felt like, with The Last of Us, if we did that, there's an opportunity here to change the industry." -Neil Druckmann

Do you really believe his secret agendas stops at the work he did in the first game? Especially after having admitted to working with Anita on this one?

Make no mistake. People like Anita and Druckmann don't want to just "do things with their own property." Like most SJW's, they are absolutely out to use their positions of power to assert their political philosophy on the entire industry.

Commies, ADL, and supported by EA, teaming up for another "Gamers are Dead" scenario

https://reclaimthenet.org/no-pixels-for-fascists/ And here is where EA supporting the project And here where we have the founder of "No Pixels For Fascist" is a legitimate Commie that supported East Germany and ratted out escapees.

www.neogaf.com

So for those of us who hate this SJW crap infecting the game series we already love, sometimes even more than it already was, hitting our threshold, the only thing we can do is complain vocally about this crap wherever we see it and for those that want, vote with our wallets and not buy whatever it's in as well. But the two options aren't mutually exclusive.

But if you love the series which first instalment already had that agenda you are not that affected by it.

I’ve seen most of the video and he is not wrong but is not that big of an issue. This studio has an agenda and as a private company has the right to do with its money what they feel like.

 

[GymWolf]

It's not even worth it. It's mad short and half the time it's just a walking simulator with zero tension.

Yep, it was shit.

 

[IYAOYAS2019]

There certainly seems to be a "right side of history" mind poisoning going on, but as long as they keep making amazing games, I'll keep buying them. Maybe they'll grow out of the twitter brownie points phase.

As long as they keep making money while still in their "twitter brownie points phase" that will likely not happen. Only way a company learns to stop doing stuff their customers dislike, is after they take a hit in the pocket book.

 

[Danjin44]

I always have and always will support developer's freedom to make what they want to make, If you guys dont like what they are making then you are more than free not buy their games. If you expect me to blindly hate on ND just because making the games they want then I'm sorry I'm not gonna do that.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

But if you love the series which first instalment already had that agenda you are not that affected by it.

I’ve seen most of the video and he is not wrong but is not that big of an issue. This studio has an agenda and as a private company has the right to do with its money what they feel like.

Like I said, everyone has different thresholds for how much they are willing to take. And it becomes even worse when this crap starts bleeding into other stuff.

No one is saying a private company shouldn't have the right to do what they want... But people also have the right to call them out for it;

I always have and always will support developer's freedom to make what they want to make, If you guys dont like what they are making then you are more than free not buy their games. If you expect me to blindly hate on ND just because making the games they want then I'm sorry I'm not gonna do that.

No one is asking anyone to blindly hate on anything. There is plenty of evidence so that people can see for themselves.

 

[Danjin44]

.

No one is asking anyone to blindly hate on anything. There is plenty of evidence so that people can see for themselves.

Let me ask you this, should they stop making game that they want to make just because some people don’t agree with their views? Again it’s their game, they are more than free to make want to make, same way Yoko Taro is free have sexy design or even cannibal character in his game (that’s what I love about him).

 

[IYAOYAS2019]

Its funny how all these sensitive types, for the lack of a better description see the world as being filled with only the "bad" they see and want to force their views on others. While they completely ignore all of the world around them that is not "bad". They celebrate the likes of Captain Marvel as if that was the very first super hero female to exist in film, TV, games, books, comics, and so on.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

Let me ask you this, should they stop making game that they want to make just because some people don’t agree with their views? Again it’s their game, they are more than free to make want to make, same way Yoko Taro is free have sexy design or even cannibal character in his game (that’s what I love about him).

No they shouldn't? No one is saying this. But them making the game they want doesn't automatically mean that people are supposed to buy or support it. It also doesn't mean that people can't express their opinion if it's messing with a game series they've fallen in love with. And like I've said before, these people want to change the entire industry and that actually potentially effects all the games we play. Look at my post before the one you responded to.

Thing is, devs often look to their audience to see what people want. Well, this is how people want to show them what they don't want to play.

 

[Radical_3d]

No one is saying a private company shouldn't have the right to do what they want... But people also have the right to call them out for it;

But call them out for what? Not making a sexualised female protagonist? I’m not against sexualised females in games but neither regular females. And nothing of the toxic rhetoric of the new left has bleed to their games

So, they make gay fanfic on twitter? Guess what, there is fanfic of every kind out there. But those fanfics never arrive to the final game. I think they should be called out when they make something in the likes of Anita’s videos. A series of misconceptions based on lies and a whole fraud that made her wealthy.

Their worst sin will always be not give Hennig enough control and later let her go vs Druckman.

 

[IYAOYAS2019]

should they stop making game that they want to make just because some people don’t agree with their views? Again it’s their game

Should anybody? How many times have we seen "their side" of the coin attack developers over character design decisions? Just imagine what this discussion would be like if the great purge did not happen and those "other people" did not leave for REEEEEsetera.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

But call them out for what? Not making a sexualised female protagonist? I’m not against sexualised females in games but neither regular females. And nothing of the toxic rhetoric of the new left has bleed to their games

So, they make gay fanfic on twitter? Guess what, there is fanfic of every kind out there. But those fanfics never arrive to the final game. I think they should be called out when they make something in the likes of Anita’s videos. A series of misconceptions based on lies and a whole fraud that made her wealthy.

Their worst sin will always be not give Hennig enough control and later let her go vs Druckman.

There is a good post about the issues people have in the spoiler thread. I can link you in that thread if you want. But I'm not about to post spoilers here.

But ask yourself this, do you really think all these people are just overreacting? A great many of the people complaining are big fans of the series and are just sick of this crap.

 

[IYAOYAS2019]

But call them out for what?

Whatever they want. People are entitled to their opinions, especially when it involves a product they plan or planned on buying.

 

[Radical_3d]

There is a good post about the issues people have in the spoiler thread. I can link you in that thread if you want. But I'm not about to post spoilers here.

But ask yourself this, do you really think all these people are just overreacting? A great many of the people complaining are big fans of the series and are just sick of this crap.

Well, internet is for overreacting. It’s the fun of it. But I’m not going to read any spoilers. I’ll be back here and complain if the final game bothers me, tho.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

I respect all people regardless of your colour or sexuality.

I just wish that developers don't let the above control their focus on telling a compelling story in a game. Nothing should be forced.

That's all.

 

[Danjin44]

Should anybody? How many times have we seen "their side" of the coin attack developers over character design decisions? Just imagine what this discussion would be like if the great purge did not happen and those "other people" did not leave for REEEEEsetera.

And that my biggest issue here, If some western developers want to have not sexy character design then its their choice, what I really take issue is they criticize other developers for sexy design just because they personally don't like them.

Thats basically my biggest disagreements with Neil Druckmann. If he want have gay/trans or whatever as main character in his games then his more than free to do so, but he also needs to understand other developers are also free to make what they want to make.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

I respect all people regardless of your colour or sexuality.

I just wish that developers don't let the above control their focus on telling a compelling story in a game. Nothing should be forced.

That's all.

"When I'm introducing and describing a new character to our lead character concept artist, constantly she will ask, 'What if it was a girl?'" Druckmann said, when asked how his interest in the work of Feminist Frequency affected the recent PlayStation 4 game. "And I'm like, Oh, I didn't think about that. Let me think, does that affect or change anything? No? Cool, that's different. Yeah, let's do it." -Neil Druckmann

He's talking about changing the gender of a main character at the toss of a coin... like gender is swappable and doesn't even mean anything... for a main character... And notice, the question is always, "what if it's a girl?" Not, "or guy." Constantly asking to think about changing lead characters to girls...

I've done a whole lot of reading in my day and I can't fathom switching any of the main characters gender of well written books... just like that... and my only reaction being, "cool, that's different." It would change everything.

 

[Jubenhimer]

It´s funny how some people preach about the values and importance of a creators vision, that it should be maintained and not subjected to any form of censorship, that they should be free to create whatever they want without scrutiny, but when a creator has a vision about a lesbian couple, diversity, feminist themes or what not that don´t gel with these very same people they often seem to stand up and scream "AGENDA!" as loud as they can. How is that?

If ND wants to make TLoU II as woke as they want to, then I won't complain about it. But that doesn't necessarily mean everybody has to agree with or support the message they're trying to send. I do believe creators should make whatever kind of art they want, but they should understand that not everybody will respond to it in the same way. Different people like different things, and if you're into the progressive ideas that this game seemingly will present, then that's okay.

I think the problem is moreso the media, and even the people working on the project trying to more or less, force people to like or accept the message they're trying to convey otherwise we're racist/sexist/bigotted or something. It's not ND making a progressive-leaning game that's the problem, its the people who champion it trying to tell us what to like and not like. That's what annoys everyone. People don't like being called racist or sexist for not enjoying a piece of entertainment the media tells us to like. It's the same reason why there was so much backlash against films like Captain Marvel or The Last Jedi. Nobody would care about these films, if the people in charge weren't trying to bully them into submition.

 

[Gamerguy84]

Im still buying the game because its TLOU2. The game itself could be really good.

 

[DonF]

my comment was a joke, based on the premise that I think that Uncharted is a pretty terrible game series and a bad example for game design.
basically, if that shit is what got u into gaming it's basically like saying "the Transformers movies got me into Movies!" to me.

I know it was a joke but... young people exist. Hell, I applaud that gaming now is more "mainstream". Means more games, more projects, and hopefully more devs taking more risk.
Uncharted was his gateway drug, I imagine he is now consuming games cocaine equivalent.

 

[n0razi]

But the whole point is that it DOES effect you...



"so while working on The Last of Us, I had this secret agenda - I wanted to create one of the coolest, non-sexualized female video game protagonists. And I felt like, with The Last of Us, if we did that, there's an opportunity here to change the industry." -Neil Druckmann

Do you really believe his secret agendas stops at the work he did in the first game? Especially after having admitted to working with Anita on this one?

Make no mistake. People like Anita and Druckmann don't want to just "do things with their own property." Like most SJW's, they are absolutely out to use their positions of power to assert their political philosophy on the entire industry.

Commies, ADL, and supported by EA, teaming up for another "Gamers are Dead" scenario

https://reclaimthenet.org/no-pixels-for-fascists/ And here is where EA supporting the project And here where we have the founder of "No Pixels For Fascist" is a legitimate Commie that supported East Germany and ratted out escapees.

www.neogaf.com

So for those of us who hate this SJW crap infecting the game series we already love, sometimes even more than it already was, hitting our threshold, the only thing we can do is complain vocally about this crap wherever we see it and for those that want, vote with our wallets and not buy whatever it's in as well. But the two options aren't mutually exclusive.

ITS A VIDEO GAME... FOR ENTERTAINMENT... calm down

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

ITS A VIDEO GAME... FOR ENTERTAINMENT... calm down

Yeah, and this crap isn't the way I like to be entertained... Video games are my hobby man. Been gaming all my life and games literally helped save my miserable life after some of the terrible things I've been through. I don't want this. So I'm going to speak my mind.

 

[DeeDogg_]

Well i'm glad SOMEONE is having fun in this "no fun allowed/too serious for you" thread!

I haven’t seen that image used in 7 years

 

[GribbleGrunger]

Let me ask you this, should they stop making game that they want to make just because some people don’t agree with their views? Again it’s their game, they are more than free to make want to make, same way Yoko Taro is free have sexy design or even cannibal character in his game (that’s what I love about him).

There's a difference between making a game and making a point. You CANNOT write honestly if a political issue is directing your writing. People see it immediately. As in Star Trek, Dr Who, Star Wars etc. They're not writing from the heart, they're writing to 'please' a certain demographic and score virtue signalling points. They do this to separate themselves from the 'bad folks' with 'wrong think' which, ironically, are only 'bad folk' with 'wrong think' because of the political activist persuading them it exists. Then they're not just writing politically, they're writing for a cause ... and that's even worse.

 

[Sakura Doritos]

If ND wanted to make a game about the struggle of queer folk in a zombie adjacent apocalypse they should have been up front about it.

It starts to seem really lazy that they would follow the Zombie movie genre that was used early on to provide social commentary on race and consumerism.

Really lazy.

Let’s hope the reaction we see now becomes an over reaction. I won’t hold my breath tho and I’ll wait for Angry Joe’s review to see if they get my monies.

 

[Halo is Back]

ND has become the exact OPPOSITE of inclusive. Just look at the repots of management calling employees sexist and homophobes for simply voicing their opinions. Hell they are even silencing youtubers just because they didn't like how the story pans out, the evidence of their intolerance is all there and I would argue too to that they are embarrassing the LGBTQ community.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

If ND wanted to make a game about the struggle of queer folk in a zombie adjacent apocalypse they should have been up front about it.

It starts to seem really lazy that they would follow the Zombie movie genre that was used early on to provide social commentary on race and consumerism.

Really lazy.

Let’s hope the reaction we see now becomes an over reaction. I won’t hold my breath tho and I’ll wait for Angry Joe’s review to see if they get my monies.

Being 'up front' about it would have been exactly the wrong thing to do because then they would have made the homosexual elements a focus. How they dealt with it in the first game was beautifully and perfectly done. It's being 'up front' about it that's worrying myself and many others. Ellie was a great character who happened to be gay (same with Bill). Her homosexuality was incidental, which is how most decent folk now see people with different lifestyles. The problem here is if Neil has forced the focus of the narrative and made homosexuality integral. the left have managed to persuade whole swathes of the population that 'a label' supersedes the thousands of other facets a person possesses. For some, that's ALL they are, and that's damaging because they see all interactions through that lens.

 

[gioGAF]

I don't necessarily mind if an artist has an agenda, I can choose to buy said item or not.

What I DO mind is that people of that persuasion won't let others be. If ND releases a "woke" game, the critics will praise them and any detractors will be labelled one of the "-ist" words. If another studio developed a title with a white dude as the lead (or not diverse enough, or with good looking characters, etc.), the critics would pan them for it and the detractors would be labelled as enlightened (courageous warriors against the status quo, which is actually the opposite of what they are).

THAT is the problem.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

Spoiler free and gives us some hope. PLEASE DO NOT TALK ABOUT SPOILERS BECAUSE OF THIS VIDEO

 

[Halo is Back]

I 100% guarantee that when the reviews come out from "journalist" they will be praising ND and the game for being bold and breaking new grounds. Next, we will see article after article of "journalist" shitting on the gaming community making sweeping accusations that we are homophobes and sexist and toxic, its like fucking clockwork now.

Meanwhile the users scores will be divisive at best, the entire thing will be a shit show when this game releases, many long time TLOU fans are already speaking out and its going to be a warzone online. It will be very interesting to see how ND responds to criticism once the game releases.

 

[sneas78]

I’m confused by the assertion that there is an agenda at all. I’ll take the homosexuality of the lead character, as an example. Homosexuality isn’t unusual. Isn’t more ununusal that it’s so rare in games? This isn’t an agenda, it’s an opportunity to have a narrative niche simply by including a massive segment of the population in a storyline. It’s clever because it feels fresh by default.

I do also feel very strongly that it’s the right thing to do though. Games should represent everyone. If straight males can’t handle playing as a gay female for one superb game, I wonder how they’d feel being a gay female gamer playing 99% of games.

Personally, I like when the character I’m playing as has a different experience/perspective than my own. That’s what makes it interesting. I think most people think that way when it comes to most things, otherwise most games would have main characters that work in offices or in trades...but they don’t, they feature space marines, zombie hunters and organized crime bosses.

The “agenda” seems to be on the other foot, so to speak, here. Why try to criticize the creative license of game makers? Their game, their choices. What’s being represented here is life, not a political agenda. Simply showing ordinary relationships isn’t evidence of an agenda. Is seeing two heterosexuals kiss in a game part of an anti-homosexual agenda? No, obviously not. If you view people living their lives as a political agenda, then your own political agenda has probably gotten the better of you.

How about this take: And I quote “ This would be like going into a JoAnn Fabrics store and complaining about how all the packing for the sewing supplies cater to women. Men sew too! It makes perfect sense that because our brains and minds are different, we are generally into different things. I can't really think of any female-dominated hobbies or interests that have people demanding better representation for men. Why does it feel like it's only ever wrong if it's male dominated?“

 

[and 3 others]

How about this take: And I quote “ This would be like going into a JoAnn Fabrics store and complaining about how all the packing for the sewing supplies cater to women. Men sew too! It makes perfect sense that because our brains and minds are different, we are generally into different things. I can't really think of any female-dominated hobbies or interests that have people demanding better representation for men. Why does it feel like it's only ever wrong if it's male dominated?“

Hey, quit noticing things...

 

[Hawking Radiation]

"When I'm introducing and describing a new character to our lead character concept artist, constantly she will ask, 'What if it was a girl?'" Druckmann said, when asked how his interest in the work of Feminist Frequency affected the recent PlayStation 4 game. "And I'm like, Oh, I didn't think about that. Let me think, does that affect or change anything? No? Cool, that's different. Yeah, let's do it." -Neil Druckmann

He's talking about changing the gender of a main character at the toss of a coin... like gender is swappable and doesn't even mean anything... for a main character... And notice, the question is always, "what if it's a girl?" Not, "or guy." Constantly asking to think about changing lead characters to girls...

I've done a whole lot of reading in my day and I can't fathom switching any of the main characters gender of well written books... just like that... and my only reaction being, "cool, that's different." It would change everything.

Maybe Druckmann is a girl. Jokes

Either way like i said before, nothing should be forced (or feel forced) when it comes to creating games.

 

[Halo is Back]

Spoiler free and gives us some hope. PLEASE DO NOT TALK ABOUT SPOILERS BECAUSE OF THIS VIDEO

This guy is delusional. ND have neither confirmed nor denied what in the leak footage was true. Furthermore, the time stamp on the leaked videos was in April lol. That is the game bro, its the same as someone saying the Beta is going to massively improve the game in just one month. All of the main story beats are out and that will not change, gameplay has been the least concern with the leaks.

 

[LordKasual]

It's hard to shit on Era when threads like this get to 23 pages and still go strong

"The Naughty Dog Agenda"......what the fuck lol

You seriously want me to watch 20 minutes of some dude crying about....what, Nadine being black and Ellie being gay?

 

[Paracelsus]

It's hard to shit on Era when threads like this get to 23 pages and still go strong

"The Naughty Dog Agenda"......what the fuck lol

You seriously want me to watch 20 minutes of some dude crying about....what, Nadine being black and Ellie being gay?

The agenda is there, you either don't know the spoilers or you don't care.