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[TAJ]

I love the mental gymnastics that people do, when they hear that NX will not sell at a loss.

Oh, it must mean it is gonna be gimped hardware hur dur Nintendo Doomed!

Not mental gymnastics, just plain, old thought.
It means that their hardware budget is limited by MSRP. Their MSRP is limited by their demographic, which skews young. (and broke)
This is ignoring the possibility of an expensive (relative to the other consoles) controller gimmick.

 

[tinfoilhatman]

I don't care if it sells at "a loss" but if they don't exceed PS4.5 and Xbox1.5 in specs then it'll be yet another lost generation for Nintendo.....at least for me it will.

 

[H3xum]

Just to chime in with an unfounded comment like most other people, my kneejerk reaction is this is at minimum a 349 console now. Game and or extra controller bundle at 399.99

 

[Vena]

Please point something out.

The original article and title are not what Kimishima said. That should tell you where this thread stands...

 

[El-Pistolero]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-05-02-the-nx-wont-be-sold-at-a-loss

This is kind of disappointing, I was really expecting Nintendo to at least outpace the specs on other current gen consoles. We're still a year away from anything concrete though so who knows.

Why would they incur unnecessary losses when their two competitors, who are better armed for such a maneuver (especially MS), chose not to? The WiiU has been an unmitigated disaster for them, so the last thing anyone at the helm would want is for their next project to bleed money without any warranty of success.

 

[Chronos24]

I don't care if it sells at "a loss" but if they don't exceed PS4.5 and Xbox1.5 in specs then it'll be yet another lost generation for Nintendo.....at least for me it will.

Funny how I'm getting reemed here for pointing that out exactly. We care about specs moreso nowadays than before which is why my initial comment was how Sony went power this gen and its paid off.

 

[jroc74]

Seeing as Sony are about to stick two fingers up at current PS4 owners by essentially telling they paid £400 to beta test the machine before the real one comes out, the mindshare is Nintendo's to take back.

Yea to hell with Sony thinking about those that want it and those still on last gen consoles!!! Who the hell wants choice....choice is nothing but an illusion.

If that is beta test, when will PC get out of beta testing?

This too.

 

[garyizraw]

Either a high price or crappy hardware. Nintendo don't fail me again

 

[Jawmuncher]

$299 launch price please

The cheaper it is, the more likely I am to get it day one.

 

[Eolz]

Please point something out.

You mean stuff like this? And that's only on the previous page with default post count.

Of the gimmick is expensive, we are prpbably looking at something as weak as X1.

Won't look good next to psneo and xbone1.5

http://www.********.com/analysis/platform_totals/ There.[/QUOTE]

 

[jroc74]

Price of yen is wildly different from when the WiiU launched to today, so "none of these" is also a candidate as you probably didn't ready what Kimishima actually said.

This is from the financial briefing:

Next, about how we are looking at cost, we are not thinking of launching the hardware at a loss. When Wii U was launched, the yen was very strong. I am assuming that situation will not repeat itself. Selling at a loss at launch would not support the business, so we are keeping that mind in developing NX.

Thats why I posted what I did. Or am I interpreting it wrong?

 

[PooBone]

Another bad sign.

 

[BY2K]

A more accurate title would be "Nintendo is THINKING about not selling the NX at a loss."

 

[EloquentM]

A more accurate title would be "Nintendo is THINKING about not selling the NX at a loss."

...depending on the Yen

 

[BodiesWithoutOrgans]

So it will either be expensive or weak.
I really hope it's expensive then

 

[McHuj]

I'm still expecting $249. I think those expecting high-end specs will be disappointed.

 

[BY2K]

...depending on the Yen

If it depends on the Yen would that mean they have an idea of how much it will cost?

 

[Petrae]

I'm in the $350 camp. Anything less really doesn't jive with "not selling at a loss" while maintaining some level of comparable power to Nintendo's competition. The best-case scenario would be $300, but that would point to a break-even price.

Maybe Nintendo surprises, but I'll keep my predicted price point high until/if they do.

 

[Vena]

This is from the financial briefing:



Thats why I posted what I did. Or am I interpreting it wrong?

He's saying that so long as their conversation remains favorable, they won't (maybe) sell at a loss. If the conversion does change by the launch time and their costs are set, they may well have no choice but to sell at a loss. For this reason, its impossible to discern the value of the console as either a loss-leader or not (let alone anything to do with its specs). Current projections based on the value of the yen would make Kimishima THINK its not going to come out as a loss-leader but he neither guarantees that nor the future of the value of the Yen.

If it depends on the Yen would that mean they have an idea of how much it will cost?

It likely means that at current rates, if they launched, it would be profitable after conversion to Yen. It may even sell at what appears to be "at cost" (or heck, even small loss) in USD but favorable conversions would turn it into a profitable venture per unit sold to them in Yen.

 

[Wishmaster92]

Announce the fucking specs for this damn thing already. That will tell us everything

 

[blu]

If it depends on the Yen would that mean they have an idea of how much it will cost?

For launch? They should have a fairly good idea. As in 'these parts will cost us N usd, those - M eur, and yet those - Y yen'. What they cannot know is the FX at launch.

 

[XAL]

This is entirely based on no actual information.

Welp

History.

Welp.

 

[nullref]

I'm not sure why Nintendo would try to compete on specs again at this point. The main reason to do it would be to enable third-party ports, but I would think that ship has long sailed.

They need to maximize their ability to create an appealing platform that they support mostly on their own. They can do this by making sure all of the their games can easily support all of their platforms, and by keeping the price fairly low.

I'd be surprised if NX turns out to be a $300-$400 somewhat-powerful console. Seems like it would make more sense to do something like have a console that's something like an AppleTV with a gamepad, and a handheld that's something like an iPod Touch with physical buttons, both with similar internals. Price them each ~$200, then have all online services shared across both, with all games cross-buy on both. The cheaper it is, the easier it is for Nintendo to sell with their software support alone.

(Note that I have no idea if this runs counter to current rumors, nor am I saying that this is what Nintendo fans would/should want. It's just what always made the most sense to me, as a strategy.)

Of course, what they'll probably do is swing for another Wii-style home run with some new gimmick.

 

[jroc74]

The ps4 controller did also had gimmick. Maybe not that expensive, but still...

How do you know that they will do the same thing as wiiu. They have told many times before it wouldn't be a new wiiu. Lol

Also they have said it sould be a system that has a longer lifetime than we expected for most console.

Think more innterms of upgrades or xloud system. What it could make the console much cheaper bit better in performance than the others.

It isn't a replacement for 3ds and wiiu. Think also about that part. Many people doesn't look at the whole picture.

I should have said controller gimmick integral to the console. I also ended on if it does it wont be that different than the Gamepad.

The PS4 controller has gimmicks, I posted about this many times. Its a mash up of a Move and Vita. But...it isnt integral to the system. At times you are forced to use the Gamepad on the Wii U just to navigate the UI.

 

[daveo42]

If it's more powerful than an X1 or PS4 and AMD is getting a bump in profits from three console manufacturers from using their chips in consoles, they'll probably use Polaris for NX. That should put it at or around the $400 price point. It would make the most sense for the NX to use off the shelf parts this time around for their console if they want to attract 3rd parties with an easy way to port over games too.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Did the PS3 actually end up selling more than the 360? Didn't they do about the same?

Also, come the fuck on at the Wii not counting.

As far as I remember, the last time we got some solid numbers, the PS3 had passed the 360. Just by a little bit mind you, but still.

 

[God Dayumm]

$400 and less powerful than PS4. You heard it here first

 

[Proelite]

The only thing it tells us is that it will be priced relatively to its power, unless there is another "gimmick/ innovation" like the expensive screen on the controller in a WiiU that eats in the specs.

So it basically is 1 of 3 scenarios imo (not counting side innovations or "gimmicks")

$299 at a PS4 level
$349 at or near a PS4 Neo level
$399 slightly above a Neo level

This counting that I expect the Neo to show up fall 2016 and the NX to be delayed to Holiday 2017.

You're assuming that Neo is selling at a ~$50 profit?

If I were a betting man, I would place my lifesavings on NX been closer to PS4 than Neo. I'll probably make 1% in the winnings. lol.

 

[Numb]

Not expecting a graphical beast

 

[Iced Arcade]

thought this would kind of be expected honestly

 

[Oersted]

Another bad sign.

We still lack one

History.

Welp.

So we will get a stronger Vita successor?


History and all that.

 

[Plinko]

$400 and less powerful than PS4. You heard it here first

Nope.

 

[blu]

If it's more powerful than an X1 or PS4 and AMD is getting a bump in profits from three console manufacturers from using their chips in consoles, they'll probably use Pascal for NX. That should put it at or around the $400 price point. It would make the most sense for the NX to use off the shelf parts this time around for their console if they want to attract 3rd parties with an easy way to port over games too.

Why would be AMD making profit from NX using an NV part? Or did I miss something?

..Wait, are you trying to play along with the thread?

 

[jblank83]

So it basically is 1 of 3 scenarios imo (not counting side innovations or "gimmicks")

$299 at a PS4 level
$349 at or near a PS4 Neo level
$399 slightly above a Neo level

PS4 released late 2013. By the time NX releases it will be almost 3.5 years later. That's almost a generational leap in price and/or performance in terms of GPUs. This ignores that PS4 launched with a mid-range GPU as is.

Any console released in 2017 at $300 should be more powerful than a PS4, unless it has something like the Wii U Gamepad driving up the cost, or unless it is sold at a steep profit.

 

[Peterc]

I should have said controller gimmick integral to the console. I also ended on if it does it wont be that different than the Gamepad.

The PS4 controller has gimmicks, I posted about this many times. Its a mash up of a Move and Vita. But...it isnt integral to the system. At times you are forced to use the Gamepad on the Wii U just to navigate the UI.

Agree with you. But they force you to play fps games with a traditional controller on ps4, and thats bad. Some games are better with the wiiu gamepad other really don't.

Beside that, Move seems fo be forced for ps4 vr.

But yes ps4 generally isn't forced to use other controls beside the traditional controller.

Nx wouldn't be that anymore. Doesn't mean it could have some nice add-on beside the controller buyed separately to create better game experience.

 

[Zombegoast]

People expecting Nintendo to use The Cell 2.0 and successor to the Blu-Ray?

 

[daveo42]

Why would be AMD making profit from NX using an NV part? Or did I miss something?

..Wait, are you trying to play along with the thread?

No, I fucked up with the wrong processor name. It's fixed. Tho AMD making bank off of an nVidia processor would be fun.

 

[Proelite]

PS4 released late 2013. By the time NX releases it will be almost 3.5 years later. That's almost a generational leap in price and/or performance in terms of GPUs. This ignores that PS4 launched with a mid-range GPU as is.

Any console released in 2017 at $300 should be more powerful than a PS4, unless it has something like the Wii U Gamepad driving up the cost, or unless it is sold at a steep profit.

Actually from 2012 to 2016, 4 years, there was not generation leap due to GPUS stuck on 28nm. If for some reason, NX is on 28nm, which is not impossible, I'll be impressed if they manage to match the PS4.

If they move to 14nm then I except them to match / beat PS4 at $299 comfortably.

 

[Jawbone54]

Most of you guys are posting some pretty optimistic predictions.

I wouldn't be stunned if it's $399, depending on how much power is under the hood of the handheld unit (whatever it is).

I am stunned, however, that they wouldn't initially sell it at a loss so as to buy back some good will from the fan base they disregarded with the Wii U. They gave us a console with another controller we didn't want, very few of the games we wanted, and made little-to-no effort to win back publishers.

 

[Chronos24]

As far as I remember, the last time we got some solid numbers, the PS3 had passed the 360. Just by a little bit mind you, but still.

Exactly. My comment on the Wii being a freak may have been taken out of context. The Wii tapped a market that was largely untapped. The gimmick sold the Wii, not the power and as the years went it became more and more evident. My bottom line point is that I believe today people are more aware and care more about a console's power than before. This and many other threads alone are proof of that.

 

[Asd202]

Seeing as Sony are about to stick two fingers up at current PS4 owners by essentially telling they paid £400 to beta test the machine before the real one comes out, the mindshare is Nintendo's to take back.

Funny that you say that because all things point that NX won't be much more powerful than that beta console.

 

[jdmonmou]

Nintendo NX doesn't need to be a technical power house. It just needs to be easy to develop for so that it has strong 3rd party support. Nintendo can't really afford to sell this thing at a loss.

 

[thefro]

Exactly. My comment on the Wii being a freak may have been taken out of context. The Wii tapped a market that was largely untapped. The gimmick sold the Wii, not the power and as the years went it became more and more evident. My bottom line point is that I believe today people are more aware and care more about a console's power than before. This and many other threads alone are proof of that.

That's been going on all the time since the launch of the Genesis in the US when Sega made that a heavy focus of their advertising.

The big difference this gen is PS4 was both more powerful than cheaper at launch than XB1, since XB1 was bundled with Kinect.

I am stunned, however, that they wouldn't initially sell it at a loss so as to buy back some good will from the fan base they disregarded with the Wii U. They gave us a console with another controller we didn't want, very few of the games we wanted, and made little-to-no effort to win back publishers.

Selling your hardware at a loss to get good will back is probably one of the dumber things they could have done.

It's much more profitable to bundle games with the system.

 

[jblank83]

Actually from 2012 to 2016, 4 years, there was not generation leap due to GPUS stuck on 28nm. If for some reason, NX is on 28nm, which is not impossible, I'll be impressed if they manage to match the PS4.

If they move to 14nm then I except them to match / beat PS4 at $299 comfortably.

Last I heard the PS4 uses a modified 7870, or something thereabout.

It shouldn't be difficult to match/beat that even if Nintendo doesn't use a 14nm solution.

 

[boo]

It should be noticed that Kimishima's main reference is about the current Yen exchange. As I already posted a few days ago, here's the comparison between different periods

Exchange rates as of December 31st, 2012 (after Wii U launch)
USD: 1 USD = 86.58 Yen
Euro: 1 Euro = 114.71 Yen

Exhance rates as of March 31st, 2016
USD: 1 USD = 112.68 Yen
Euro: 1 Euro = 127.70 Yen

Forecast for March 31st, 2017 (NX launch period)
USD: 1 USD = 110.00 Yen
Euro: 1 Euro = 125.00 Yen

So based on these exchange rates, if Nintendo had released a game console that cost them USD 400 to make in December 2012, that would be 34632 Yen (USD 400 multiplied with the exchange rate 86.58).

If Nintendo want to release another game console in March 2017 that also cost them 34632 Yen (break-even): 34632 Yen divided by an exchange rate of 110 will mean a price of USD 314.83636.

So the weaker the Yen, the lower Nintendo can push the price in USD before they start to take a loss.

 

[James Scott]

Wii U despite being roughly as powerful as the 360/PS3 was sold at a loss at launch and likely still is due to the yen. I believe there was a story about Wii U no longer being sold at a loss due to them selling units produced in a previous fiscal year or something along those lines.
If NX doesn't use power PC, if it doesn't include a "gimmick" as expensive as the Kinect or the Gamepad, and the yen stays as is or the situation improves then it should be able to be reasonably powerful without taking a loss at $300/350 depending on how powerful they want to make it
LCGeek already said the CPU at least should be better than the PS4/X1's so it's not going to be weaker, but hopefully not considerably more expensive

 

[Vena]

So based on these exchange rates, if Nintendo had released a game console that cost them USD 400 to make in December 2012, that would be 34632 Yen (USD 400 multiplied with the exchange rate 86.58).

If Nintendo want to release another game console in March 2017 that also cost them 34632 Yen (break-even): 34632 Yen divided by an exchange rate of 110 will mean a price of USD 314.83636.

So the weaker the Yen, the lower Nintendo can push the price in USD before they start to take a loss.

Yes. Which is what is lost in this thread, the title, and the original article.

 

[Eolz]

Funny that you say that because all things point that NX won't be much more powerful than that beta console.

There's a difference with a .5 console from sony mid-gen and a generational leap from nintendo, even if it ends up at around the same power level.

 

[jmizzal]

I think OP is implying that not selling at a loss means cheap hardware.

The OP has no clue how much the parts cost, or how much the NX will cost, the op is jumping to conclusions early

 

[Proelite]

Last I heard the PS4 uses a modified 7870, or something thereabout.

Check out the TDP for 7970. 15.2 gigaflops / watt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon_HD_7000_Series

Check out the TDPs for R7 380. 20.9 gigaflops / watt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Radeon_Rx_300_series

That's a 38% improvement in the span of 4 years. We used to get better improvements every year in GPUs.

On the other hand moving to Polaris should be 2.5 x 1.38 = 343% improvement in perf / watt over the GCN 1 in Xbone / PS4.