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[Knight of the Round]

With all the doom and gloom around this, what are everyone's box office predictions? I still think it will do really well commercially.

I think it'll do very well. It's an AAA fantasy film based on THE fantasy story of Western civilization and is directed by arguably one of the best directors on the planet. The horrible casting choices are for characters who have minimal parts in the story - as far as I know - so it's not like even those who are on the fence will refuse to watch the movie because they'll see an African actress posing as the Queen of Sparta for like, three minutes.

It is the equivalent of having Charon appearing for two minutes and be voiced by Seth Rogan. Very few from the anti-woke crowd and none of the normies would give a fuck.

If the main leads were transformer Achilles and Black Girl Magic Helen, we could have a more bleak outlook for the movie. As it stands, I think the controversy will do little to halt the numbers. Could be wrong, but we'll see.

Personally, I have nearly boycotted every single Hollywood movie for the past five years. I used to go to the movies once or twice per week, and now it's a miracle if I go once a year. Good job swapping me for the crowd who is content on watching TikTok videos for their entertainment, Hollywood. Nice job.

There is a good chance I'll go to the movies to watch Masters of the Universe - depending on the reviews. And the new Godzilla film.

 

[Giallo Corsa]

It's a Nolan film so I think it will at a minimum do good. Might underperform his usual box office numbers if the DEI backlash has a sizable impact, but Nolan has a fanbase who will pay to see anything he does, so a profitable movie at a minimum is a good bet. I mean DEI crap aside Nolan is still a great film maker after all.

Ah yes, the "I had a blast®" crowd - the same crowd that didn't know where Democracy originated from giving a-m-a-z-i-n-g answers like "England" and "America" in a video I watched online (IG) the other day...

 

[Days like these...]

I think it'll do very well. It's an AAA fantasy film based on THE fantasy story of Western civilization and is directed by arguably one of the best directors on the planet. The horrible casting choices are for characters who have minimal parts in the story - as far as I know - so it's not like even those who are on the fence will refuse to watch the movie because they'll see an African actress posing as the Queen of Sparta for like, three minutes.

It is the equivalent of having Charon appearing for two minutes and be voiced by Seth Rogan. Very few from the anti-woke crowd and none of the normies would give a fuck.

If the main leads were transformer Achilles and Black Girl Magic Helen, we could have a more bleak outlook for the movie. As it stands, I think the controversy will do little to halt the numbers. Could be wrong, but we'll see.

Personally, I have nearly boycotted every single Hollywood movie for the past five years. I used to go to the movies once or twice per week, and now it's a miracle if I go once a year. Good job swapping me for the crowd who is content on watching TikTok videos for their entertainment, Hollywood. Nice job.

There is a good chance I'll go to the movies to watch Masters of the Universe - depending on the reviews. And the new Godzilla film.

Matt Damon has a minimal part?

 

[Knight of the Round]

Matt Damon has a minimal part?

Wait, is he considered controversial as well?

 

[jason10mm]

Wait, is he considered controversial as well?

He doesn't have a "historic" flair, IMHO. He just has a contemporary vibe. He stood out in Oppenheimer and The Great Wall. So I at least think he's miscast to play a greek general from 3000 years ago, regardless of how much I like him in cop shows or spy stuff.

 

[Days like these...]

Wait, is he considered controversial as well?

Yes

 

[falconhoof]

 

[Ikutachi]

It's why he needs the beard.

 

[Jedi0608]

 

[DragoonKain]

I'm looking forward to it and really hoping it succeeds. And by succeeds I don't mind online reviews, those are pretty irrelevant. I mean how much money it makes. Even if it's an incredible movie it'll be review bombed online by grifter's mob armies. But these type of movie historical epics are very expensive to make, it's hard to get a studio to sign off on these types of movies anymore, it's why we don't get them that much anymore. So if this movie succeeds, we might get more studios willing to provide a budget for these kinds of movies. If it doesn't, forget it. We won't see another historical epic for like 10 years.

I trust Nolan. Despite the outrage grifters are trying to drum up online, Nolan is very passionate about any project he works on, and he would never sabotage or mail it in, in the name of wokeness. That doesn't mean the movie will be good, but I trust him, he's never let me down before.

 

[falconhoof]

Despite the outrage grifters are trying to drum up online

You make criticism sound unreasonable.

 

[DragoonKain]

You make criticism sound unreasonable.

The degree of it is unreasonable. It's a movie. If it invokes actual anger and outrage, then people need to check their priorities or log offline for a bit and touch grass.

Never once has any decision like this in regards to a TV show or movie made me legitimately angry. Disappointed a bit maybe, but not angry. If a movie does something I disapprove of I either won't watch it and move on with my life without needing to rant about it on social media for days/weeks on end. Or I'll watch it first to be able to fairly judge it, and if it sucks like I expected, move on with my life without needing to rant about it on social media for days/weeks on end.

 

[Bojji]

 

[Days like these...]

The degree of it is unreasonable. It's a movie. If it invokes actual anger and outrage, then people need to check their priorities or log offline for a bit and touch grass.

Never once has any decision like this in regards to a TV show or movie made me legitimately angry. Disappointed a bit maybe, but not angry. If a movie does something I disapprove of I either won't watch it and move on with my life without needing to rant about it on social media for days/weeks on end. Or I'll watch it first to be able to fairly judge it, and if it sucks like I expected, move on with my life without needing to rant about it on social media for days/weeks on end.

It's not just the film per se. It's what it says about this particular point in time and what it says about the elite in western society/culture.

 

[DragoonKain]

It's not just the film per se. It's what it says about this particular point in time and what it says about the elite in western society/culture.

In general I think people's radars are up way too intently on wokeness these days. It exists but not nearly as much as people think. And I have no idea if this movie will even be that. If I had to guess, it won't knowing Nolan. People have already spread the lies about him doing things in this movie to be eligible for Oscars, but none of that is true. I have friends who look for it in everything and it has caused them to not enjoy things as much anymore, it's a shame, people are frying their brains.

Grifter culture leads to a lot of people trying to create artificial outrage because it pays the bills. Grifter culture has far surpassed wokeness as a problem in pop culture today in my estimation. Wokeness will always linger to some capacity but it's severely declined the last few years.

 

[JusticeForAll]

Generally considered to be better except for the different score.

So Troy (2004) was so much better than I thought it was back in the day, if that makes any sense. I remember thinking this film was at best average when it was released, but now that I rewatched it (the directors cut), I was surprised at how much I enjoyed it. Probably says as much about the quality of films we are getting right now as anything else. Also zero agenda, except trying to tell the story it wants to tell. So refreshing.

 

[Giallo Corsa]

In general I think people's radars are up way too intently on wokeness these days. It exists but not nearly as much as people think. And I have no idea if this movie will even be that. If I had to guess, it won't knowing Nolan. People have already spread the lies about him doing things in this movie to be eligible for Oscars, but none of that is true. I have friends who look for it in everything and it has caused them to not enjoy things as much anymore, it's a shame, people are frying their brains.

Grifter culture leads to a lot of people trying to create artificial outrage because it pays the bills. Grifter culture has far surpassed wokeness as a problem in pop culture today in my estimation. Wokeness will always linger to some capacity but it's severely declined the last few years.

Your thesis sounds dangerously close to the usual "it's just fantasy, bro", "it's just a myth, bro, why so angry?", or "it's just a movie!" line that always gets thrown around whenever people dare question a project's dubious agenda or the decisions behind it.

Yes, the "grifting" you keep mentioning is clearly real judging by the hundreds of videos on YouTube. But at the same time, it's not as if this multi-million-dollar production and the people behind it didn't invite the backlash. At this point, Hollywood often seems more interested in provoking reactions and, yes, pushing particular agendas than simply respecting the source material.

- You don't need a rapper in it.

- You don't need a Black actress portraying one of the palest ancient Greek princesses.

- You don't need modern dialogue like "my dad is coming."

- You don't need the most Boston-looking guy imaginable playing Odysseus.

...and you certainly don't need to butcher the armor, ships, and overall historical authenticity this badly.

See, the problem, man - and I know this may sound aggressive - is exactly this attitude...
People who simply don't care about historical accuracy or the cultural integrity of other civilizations as long as they get their "fun" movie. Because in the end, nothing really matters beyond personal entertainment... right?

Also : If you think that Nolan didn't want to meet that specific quota for the Oscar... I have many bridges to sell you.

 

[Bojji]

Wokeness will always linger to some capacity but it's severely declined the last few years.

I think it's still very strong. Pretty much all big movie and gaming studios are still pushing it.

 

[DragoonKain]

Your thesis sounds dangerously close to the usual "it's just fantasy, bro", "it's just a myth, bro, why so angry?", or "it's just a movie!" line that always gets thrown around whenever people dare question a project's dubious agenda or the decisions behind it.

Yes, the "grifting" you keep mentioning is clearly real judging by the hundreds of videos on YouTube. But at the same time, it's not as if this multi-million-dollar production and the people behind it didn't invite the backlash. At this point, Hollywood often seems more interested in provoking reactions and, yes, pushing particular agendas than simply respecting the source material.

- You don't need a rapper in it.

- You don't need a Black actress portraying one of the palest ancient Greek princesses.

- You don't need modern dialogue like "my dad is coming."

- You don't need the most Boston-looking guy imaginable playing Odysseus.

...and you certainly don't need to butcher the armor, ships, and overall historical authenticity this badly.

See, the problem, man - and I know this may sound aggressive - is exactly this attitude...
People who simply don't care about historical accuracy or the cultural integrity of other civilizations as long as they get their "fun" movie. Because in the end, nothing really matters beyond personal entertainment... right?

Also : If you think that Nolan didn't want to meet that specific quota for the Oscar... I have many bridges to sell you.

I'm a "it's just fantasy, bro" type of guy. So I generally agree when people use that line. Doesn't mean people can't dislike the choices made, I've disliked lots of choices made. But like I previously mentioned 1) Making too much of it than it is and 2) Actually see the product first before judging it.

I believe Nolan made choices for reasons other than quotas. He's been at this a long time, he knows what he's doing. Doesn't mean he can't put out a dud every once in a while, but he's earned the benefit of the doubt I think. For one, the Oscar quota isn't what people think it is. You can fill that quota via set staffers and costume designers. A lot of people accuse movies of doing this but don't even understand the rule.

At the end of the day all I care about is if the movie is good.

 

[falconhoof]

In general I think people's radars are up way too intently on wokeness these days. It exists but not nearly as much as people think. And I have no idea if this movie will even be that. If I had to guess, it won't knowing Nolan. People have already spread the lies about him doing things in this movie to be eligible for Oscars, but none of that is true. I have friends who look for it in everything and it has caused them to not enjoy things as much anymore, it's a shame, people are frying their brains.

Grifter culture leads to a lot of people trying to create artificial outrage because it pays the bills. Grifter culture has far surpassed wokeness as a problem in pop culture today in my estimation. Wokeness will always linger to some capacity but it's severely declined the last few years.

There's a balance to be found. However people choose to label it, there's a change in both subtle and not so subtle ways that has permeated across culture and industries. Like anything it's a subject to be capitalized on as much as it is reported on. We can often sniff out the difference between reporting and raging, and likely most people self-select their ways out of it. The risk I'd say is to become opposed to it and over apply the label, and I mean both wokeness and grift and whatever label people choose to apply. It becomes an easy act and is ultimately dismissive, unthought, and divisive.

I recall one of my friends back in about 2017 laughing about the growing Punch a Nazi meme. Made me feel uncomfortable. On a surface level it's an easy win, Nazi's are bad, proven to be so, and the idea of punching one is to push back against bad people. There was no argument on that front. My concern was with whom people were about to label Nazi in order to justify punching or using any violence against them. Sure enough we saw it, both verbally and physically.

What we've seen in movies, and no I don't like the "it's just a movie" line, because that dismissive statement is an act to diminish valid concerns that people have a right to hold, change movie to anything; it's a thing people care about, therefore it has importance.

Anyway, we've seen in movies and other industries these attempts to shift, subvert and change, using many strategies. I feel like your prior post alluded to one, which was about the things you need to do to make a movie, so hey be thankful you get a movie even if it had to do all this box ticking to get funding, stop complaining. Why? Why shut up and accept what you're given? Why not say "Hey, I don't like this, it doesn't sound cool and here are my reasons why."

In the comedy skit posted above, it revealed another strategy, be it one that was emergent or by design I don't know, but the convenient setup we're in where someone might say "I don't think that's a good Helen of Troy", and the obvious response is "Oh because she's black therefore...". This dismissive, eager to label approach, subverts discussion and moves to categorization. Don't like == bigot. It makes it hard to think this isn't a whole strategy at play based on the fact we've seen it time after time after time it's become like clockwork marketing. (See: https://variety.com/2026/film/opini...y-christopher-nolan-lupita-nyongo-1236747945/ for the latest in line of media running defense)

 

[nkarafo]

This guy is funny

 

[Giallo Corsa]

I'm a "it's just fantasy, bro" type of guy. So I generally agree when people use that line. Doesn't mean people can't dislike the choices made, I've disliked lots of choices made. But like I previously mentioned 1) Making too much of it than it is and 2) Actually see the product first before judging it.

I believe Nolan made choices for reasons other than quotas. He's been at this a long time, he knows what he's doing. Doesn't mean he can't put out a dud every once in a while, but he's earned the benefit of the doubt I think. For one, the Oscar quota isn't what people think it is. You can fill that quota via set staffers and costume designers. A lot of people accuse movies of doing this but don't even understand the rule.

At the end of the day all I care about is if the movie is good.

I absolutely disagree with everything you said, especially the whole "I don't care as long as I'm having fun with my little film" mentality.
So yeah, thanks for supporting yet another culture-raping project, I guess.

Look, I understand we're not going to change each other's minds but your line of thinking comes across as extremely superficial, naive, arrogant and honestly incredibly ignorant.

Worse than that, it's dangerous
because that mindset basically boils down to: "I got my entertainment, so who cares what gets distorted, rewritten or stripped of meaning in the process?" And that's exactly how people end up normalizing the complete bastardization of history, mythology, culture and identity for the sake of corporate-approved consumption.

You can dismiss criticism as "people whining over a movie" all you want, but some of us are tired of seeing every existing story treated like raw material for ideological vanity projects and cheap provocation.

 

[DragoonKain]

There's a balance to be found. However people choose to label it, there's a change in both subtle and not so subtle ways that has permeated across culture and industries. Like anything it's a subject to be capitalized on as much as it is reported on. We can often sniff out the difference between reporting and raging, and likely most people self-select their ways out of it. The risk I'd say is to become opposed to it and over apply the label, and I mean both wokeness and grift and whatever label people choose to apply. It becomes an easy act and is ultimately dismissive, unthought, and divisive.

I recall one of my friends back in about 2017 laughing about the growing Punch a Nazi meme. Made me feel uncomfortable. On a surface level it's an easy win, Nazi's are bad, proven to be so, and the idea of punching one is to push back against bad people. There was no argument on that front. My concern was with whom people were about to label Nazi in order to justify punching or using any violence against them. Sure enough we saw it, both verbally and physically.

What we've seen in movies, and no I don't like the "it's just a movie" line, because that dismissive statement is an act to diminish valid concerns that people have a right to hold, change movie to anything; it's a thing people care about, therefore it has importance.

Anyway, we've seen in movies and other industries these attempts to shift, subvert and change, using many strategies. I feel like your prior post alluded to one, which was about the things you need to do to make a movie, so hey be thankful you get a movie even if it had to do all this box ticking to get funding, stop complaining. Why? Why shut up and accept what you're given? Why not say "Hey, I don't like this, it doesn't sound cool and here are my reasons why."

In the comedy skit posted above, it revealed another strategy, be it one that was emergent or by design I don't know, but the convenient setup we're in where someone might say "I don't think that's a good Helen of Troy", and the obvious response is "Oh because she's black therefore...". This dismissive, eager to label approach, subverts discussion and moves to categorization. Don't like == bigot. It makes it hard to think this isn't a whole strategy at play based on the fact we've seen it time after time after time it's become like clockwork marketing. (See: https://variety.com/2026/film/opini...y-christopher-nolan-lupita-nyongo-1236747945/ for the latest in line of media running defense)

There can be concerns. I have concerns about a lot of things in movies and shows, many that have nothing to do with "wokeness" and some that do. People will always have concerns. But there's a difference between concern and outrage. When you have Elon Musk and various culture war grifters online trying to turn this into the sociopolitical battleground of 2026, it's just eye roll worthy. People have got to turn the culture war switch off, it's rotting people's brains. It gets tiresome after a while having every game, movie, show being argued over. I'm a fan of these things and I just like to enjoy them. And if something I'm anticipating ends up sucking, I'll criticize it then after I've played it/saw it.

I care about if the final product is good first and foremost. Accuracy to the source material can be cool, but ultimately I just want the final product to be something great. I remember when House of the Dragon first came out, some people were up in arms that the Velaryons were black in the show. In the end, it turned out to be much ado about nothing. All the actors they got for the Velaryons were fucking awesome, brought a lot to the table, and season 2 was very average for reasons that had nothing to do with casting or wokeness, it was because the writing fell off and the season felt like a big waste of time. And season 1 ended up being really good. So all that angst about them changing the Velaryons for nothing.

There's nothing wrong with expressing concerns, people expressed concerns over Bella Ramsey being Ellie in TLOU and those turned out to be valid. But Christopher Nolan is no amateur. Dude puts a ton of work, thought, love into these movies and he's not going to bring people on one of his projects purely because of diversity. He will bring on those he thinks are the best for the job. He may miscalculate on some of these choices, but I believe his intentions will be in a good place. Lupita Nyongo is a really good actress. I suspect that's why she was brought on first. And he had a specific vision in mind that she fit well.

Elon and others have been pushing this narrative about the Oscar rules, but that's typical Elon he knows nothing about 75% of the things he rants about. The rule allows the diversity hires to be filled with staff and even interns. People think it applies to actors. And btw this is only for Best Picture too. The Hollywood diversity quota angle is being so vastly overblown.

 

[DragoonKain]

I absolutely disagree with everything you said, especially the whole "I don't care as long as I'm having fun with my little film" mentality.
So yeah, thanks for supporting yet another culture-raping project, I guess.

Look, I understand we're not going to change each other's minds but your line of thinking comes across as extremely superficial, naive, arrogant and honestly incredibly ignorant.

Worse than that, it's dangerous
because that mindset basically boils down to: "I got my entertainment, so who cares what gets distorted, rewritten or stripped of meaning in the process?" And that's exactly how people end up normalizing the complete bastardization of history, mythology, culture and identity for the sake of corporate-approved consumption.

You can dismiss criticism as "people whining over a movie" all you want, but some of us are tired of seeing every existing story treated like raw material for ideological vanity projects and cheap provocation.

Could not disagree more with your post. If the movie ends up being great, and we don't know that it will, but if it's great, why would I care who was cast as whom? I'm a fan of movies, I like seeing great movies. If a movie I end up seeing is something I love, why would I find reason to still be annoyed? The quality of the final product is the most important thing. Being upset by things is a choice. And if the product is something I enjoy, finding reasons to still be annoyed by it is a complete waste of time and energy in my estimation.

All media is a form of art. Christopher Nolan wants to put out his vision of this story. That's what art is. His vision is not going to align with that of others and that's fine. Frankly, I like when people put their own twists on things.... if those twists end up working. It keeps things fresh. I embrace change always, I think it's very healthy. Will it work? No idea. Nolan will ultimately be judged on the quality of this film and his vision.

 

[Knight of the Round]

I care about if the final product is good first and foremost.

Then you should absolutely oppose DEI/wokeness since it ensures that ticking boxes comes first, quoting The Message comes second, and quality comes third. The mere fact that you put "wokeness" in quotes (as if it something that doesn't really exist) shows me where you stand.

Unless you belong in the group of people who feel that Western pop culture is stronger than ever and 90% of its IPs haven't been destroyed because they've been handed to people who didn't earn their positions due to merit (which would ensure the quality of the art/product), but due to their politics.

 

[falconhoof]

Elon and others have been pushing this narrative about the Oscar rules, but that's typical Elon he knows nothing about 75% of the things he rants about. The rule allows the diversity hires to be filled with staff and even interns. People think it applies to actors. And btw this is only for Best Picture too. The Hollywood diversity quota angle is being so vastly overblown.

I don't want to derail this thread away from The Odyssey, but this whole accept the rules and hire people based on immutable traits is abhorrent, it does a disservice to the skilled no matter what they look like. It also creates unbalanced output. Each production is its own thing, so if each production wants to shimmy up the acceptance pole then they're going to try and tick the boxes. It doesn't matter what the rules are, it's the message. I posted about this earlier and used an Office Space skit example. If they ask for 15 pieces of flair on the uniform they want more, 15 doesn't show you care.

The result?

Here's some stats for UK adverts as it's the data I have and it covers a similar industry. Each and every ad company is trying to tick boxes and show they're the dooest of gooders. So they each make their TV ad and when casting they make sure to include a minority, typically black, but others too. The net result is you get 51% of adverts featuring black people who make up 4% of the population.

Clearly there's no hard prescription on what % that should be, but in a more natural state you'd expect the number to be about that of the population, but it's not.

What does this matter? Well it's about creativity and craft. People are not making the product they want to make, they're making the product with unnecessary steps. Just like how we've seen movies do product placement and other such "conditions", it means we're not seeing the output of true craft, we're seeing a compromise.

You believe that Nolan is uncompromised in his craft, others believe he is. Will it affect the end product? We'll see. It has certainly affected the trailers in terms of language and visuals so I'd be surprised to watch a very different looking movie. I personally have less faith in Nolan than you. I think he lost a huge amount of his production quality when he stopped working with his brother and I haven't cared much for his output overall in a long time. Big productions sure, but they've been lacking in story telling and covering it with spectacle.

 

[Giallo Corsa]

Could not disagree more with your post. If the movie ends up being great, and we don't know that it will, but if it's great, why would I care who was cast as whom? I'm a fan of movies, I like seeing great movies. If a movie I end up seeing is something I love, why would I find reason to still be annoyed? The quality of the final product is the most important thing. Being upset by things is a choice. And if the product is something I enjoy, finding reasons to still be annoyed by it is a complete waste of time and energy in my estimation.

All media is a form of art. Christopher Nolan wants to put out his vision of this story. That's what art is. His vision is not going to align with that of others and that's fine. Frankly, I like when people put their own twists on things.... if those twists end up working. It keeps things fresh. I embrace change always, I think it's very healthy. Will it work? No idea. Nolan will ultimately be judged on the quality of this film and his vision.

...and this is the whole thing/main problem man

we've reached a point (not to mention, peak idiocracy) were ignorance is actually celebrated.

I don't have anything else to add Kain

 

[DragoonKain]

Then you should absolutely oppose DEI/wokeness since it ensures that ticking boxes comes first, quoting The Message comes second, and quality comes third. The mere fact that you put "wokeness" in quotes (as if it something that doesn't really exist) shows me where you stand.

Unless you belong in the group of people who feel that Western pop culture is stronger than ever and 90% of its IPs haven't been destroyed because they've been handed to people who didn't earn their positions due to merit (which would ensure the quality of the art/product), but due to their politics.

I put wokeness in quotes because it's a nebulous term that is overused and everyone has their own definitions of it. I believe in some aspects of society it's an issue but not nearly as much as the reactionaries think. I don't believe our culture or society is being destroyed by it. I don't believe there's nothing good to watch or play because of it. I think the impact of it exists, but it is overblown and people go back to that well way too often. More movies and TV franchises are destroyed by talentless hacks who have no vision and can't write generally speaking than wokeness.

Great games are still being made. Great songs are still being performed. Great movies and TV shows are still being made. If I didn't use social media, I honestly would barely notice it or think about it. I'm still enjoying media plenty in 2026 and I think there's a lot of tremendous stuff out there.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I don't want to derail this thread away from The Odyssey, but this whole accept the rules and hire people based on immutable traits is abhorrent, it does a disservice to the skilled no matter what they look like. It also creates unbalanced output. Each production is its own thing, so if each production wants to shimmy up the acceptance pole then they're going to try and tick the boxes. It doesn't matter what the rules are, it's the message. I posted about this earlier and used an Office Space skit example. If they ask for 15 pieces of flair on the uniform they want more, 15 doesn't show you care.

The result?

Here's some stats for UK adverts as it's the data I have and it covers a similar industry. Each and every ad company is trying to tick boxes and show they're the dooest of gooders. So they each make their TV ad and when casting they make sure to include a minority, typically black, but others too. The net result is you get 51% of adverts featuring black people who make up 4% of the population.

Clearly there's no hard prescription on what % that should be, but in a more natural state you'd expect the number to be about that of the population, but it's not.

What does this matter? Well it's about creativity and craft. People are not making the product they want to make, they're making the product with unnecessary steps. Just like how we've seen movies do product placement and other such "conditions", it means we're not seeing the output of true craft, we're seeing a compromise.

You believe that Nolan is uncompromised in his craft, others believe he is. Will it affect the end product? We'll see. It has certainly affected the trailers in terms of language and visuals so I'd be surprised to watch a very different looking movie. I personally have less faith in Nolan than you. I think he lost a huge amount of his production quality when he stopped working with his brother and I haven't cared much for his output overall in a long time. Big productions sure, but they've been lacking in story telling and covering it with spectacle.

I'm sure Canada is pretty similar. I noticed a huge jump in Black and minorities in TV ads too right from Floyd riot year. Just by luck, Canada and UK have similar proportion of population at 4-5% are Black community.

Yet, it seems every ad you see from banking to hockey to XYZ ad is tons of Black people. Also tons of white people too. But oddly hardly any Asian or Indian people even though those minority populations are way bigger than 4-5%. So looks like UK and Canada are similar. Blatant cherry picking racial groups for TV ads despite not even being close to real life proportions.

Who gets the worst of it? Natives. About 5% in Canada. The number of Natives in ads or TV shows etc.... are almost zero. I guess Natives arent rich or hip enough to be represented in media more often.

Funny thing is when you watch US channels and their ads, it's similar. But you'd think Latinos would be the most represented minority. But oddly when it comes to media, games, TV ads etc... some reason Latinos are often small in numbers.

Figure that one out.

 

[kpopSuperstar]

I'm looking forward to it and really hoping it succeeds. And by succeeds I don't mind online reviews, those are pretty irrelevant. I mean how much money it makes. Even if it's an incredible movie it'll be review bombed online by grifter's mob armies. But these type of movie historical epics are very expensive to make, it's hard to get a studio to sign off on these types of movies anymore, it's why we don't get them that much anymore. So if this movie succeeds, we might get more studios willing to provide a budget for these kinds of movies. If it doesn't, forget it. We won't see another historical epic for like 10 years.

I trust Nolan. Despite the outrage grifters are trying to drum up online, Nolan is very passionate about any project he works on, and he would never sabotage or mail it in, in the name of wokeness. That doesn't mean the movie will be good, but I trust him, he's never let me down before.

I don't see why anyone would have travis scott as a poet in a Odyssey flick unless they get off by using black people for no other reason than feeling like they are helping diversity.

And even if that is wrong and travis scott fits, absolutely NO ONE would put elliot page on a salary without an agenda. You have to seek her out and make a role for her to put her in a film, there is no normal role that make sense for her. It's 100% performative, even if it's just 20 seconds of screentime.

 

[jason10mm]

I care about if the final product is good first and foremost. Accuracy to the source material can be cool, but ultimately I just want the final product to be something great. I remember when House of the Dragon first came out, some people were up in arms that the Velaryons were black in the show. In the end, it turned out to be much ado about nothing. All the actors they got for the Velaryons were fucking awesome, brought a lot to the table, and season 2 was very average for reasons that had nothing to do with casting or wokeness, it was because the writing fell off and the season felt like a big waste of time. And season 1 ended up being really good. So all that angst about them changing the Velaryons for nothing.

Nah, it was a TERRIBLE choice then and it's still a terrible choice now. Most of the velaryon actors are shit, they downgraded the character of every one of them in the show, and the racial differences totally ruins a major plot point and turned the king into a blind idiot.

There is a reason why they seem to have abandoned the Corlys spin-off/prequel (and handed it off to be animated by none other than the IMPECCABLE Genndy Tartakovsky to do it). Had they cast an actor that resonated with audiences then the live action one would still be going.

 

[Toons]

I've prettt much only heDd about this film from debates from film bros on reddit, "anti wokers" playing their usual tune, and everything in between but I hadn't actually looked at anything from the mouth or eyes of rhe actual artist making the art.

So I did and watched the second trailer. I normally watch only 1 movie trailer if at all. I liked the trailer. I will probably be seeing the movie.

The casting decisions are seen by some to be some sort of signal, some sort of message, despite the repertoire of this director, and I can't help but see that as hammers only seeing a nail. The way I see it, and based on Nolans own words may be accurate, is that he's approaching this in a classical theater sense. The way how back in ye olde days the performance and the role supercedes anything the eyes could see. When young men would play the women in plays, and when demonic entity was 3 guys in black robes waving around paper machete masks.

Hes boiling the characters down to their base characters and archetypes, as both a reflection of how derived all of our works are from those archetypes by means of natural evolution of culture, and also as a reflection of how we see media and associate it with these long forgotten tales that kicked off all this. After all, most complaining haven't read the odyssey. I know I haven't.

And you can see this not just in the casting but in the visuals and set designs too. Nolan is making no attempt at transporting us back to a real age long last. Hes transporting us to a time that exists solely in the throes of fantasy. Therss both racial and structural anachronisms... I see these as deliberate as there being blimp still flying around in Gotham city.

Nolan wasn't concerned with representing greeks with Athena. He wants "beautiful woman" archetype. So he casts one of the most beautiful women in the world(and yes, she is. Cope). He wasn't concerned with accurately creating the Trojan horse, haphazard and put together in a day. Boiled down, were expecting a fake horse, so he puts a fake horse that looks like leo da Vinci sculpted it. Why? Because the story says it was convincing enough as a gift for a king so that's what he put in there. The story wants a poet, so he puts in a rapper. Rappers are the most culturally dominant poets of our time. Theres no argument against this that holds any water, and it doesn't matter if you like rap or not. Thats just what it is.(now, I would have personally gone with a different rapper, but I digress).

Its a bizarre and bold approach. But I kinda can dig it. Hes eschewing the facsimile of verisimilitude that we are so accustomed to. Where we are used to being more concerned with appearing "correct" than story telling. Back in the odle times, accuracy was an occasional happenstance of story retelling, of oral history. It was not an expectation nor was if a benefit. Because how the story felt mattered a lot more than how real it was. Thats what I think he's trying to do here. And I think its kinda neat of an approach if so.

So to me the folks complaining about whos casting this, how period accurate the knights are(ignoring the racist undertones that will obviously rear their head in discussions surrounding this) are missing the point. He is not concerned with recreation. Hes an artist telling a story the way he wants it to be told, and he wants to tell it the way the oldest storytellers did. With embellishment, with grand scope, and with impact.

I hope the movies good, and that hes successful in doing so.

 

[jason10mm]

I've prettt much only heDd about this film from debates from film bros on reddit, "anti wokers" playing their usual tune, and everything in between but I hadn't actually looked at anything from the mouth or eyes of rhe actual artist making the art.

So I did and watched the second trailer. I normally watch only 1 movie trailer if at all. I liked the trailer. I will probably be seeing the movie.

The casting decisions are seen by some to be some sort of signal, some sort of message, despite the repertoire of this director, and I can't help but see that as hammers only seeing a nail. The way I see it, and based on Nolans own words may be accurate, is that he's approaching this in a classical theater sense. The way how back in ye olde days the performance and the role supercedes anything the eyes could see. When young men would play the women in plays, and when demonic entity was 3 guys in black robes waving around paper machete masks.

Hes boiling the characters down to their base characters and archetypes, as both a reflection of how derived all of our works are from those archetypes by means of natural evolution of culture, and also as a reflection of how we see media and associate it with these long forgotten tales that kicked off all this. After all, most complaining haven't read the odyssey. I know I haven't.

And you can see this not just in the casting but in the visuals and set designs too. Nolan is making no attempt at transporting us back to a real age long last. Hes transporting us to a time that exists solely in the throes of fantasy. Therss both racial and structural anachronisms... I see these as deliberate as there being blimp still flying around in Gotham city.

Nolan wasn't concerned with representing greeks with Athena. He wants "beautiful woman" archetype. So he casts one of the most beautiful women in the world(and yes, she is. Cope). He wasn't concerned with accurately creating the Trojan horse, haphazard and put together in a day. Boiled down, were expecting a fake horse, so he puts a fake horse that looks like leo da Vinci sculpted it. Why? Because the story says it was convincing enough as a gift for a king so that's what he put in there. The story wants a poet, so he puts in a rapper. Rappers are the most culturally dominant poets of our time. Theres no argument against this that holds any water, and it doesn't matter if you like rap or not. Thats just what it is.(now, I would have personally gone with a different rapper, but I digress).

Its a bizarre and bold approach. But I kinda can dig it. Hes eschewing the facsimile of verisimilitude that we are so accustomed to. Where we are used to being more concerned with appearing "correct" than story telling. Back in the odle times, accuracy was an occasional happenstance of story retelling, of oral history. It was not an expectation nor was if a benefit. Because how the story felt mattered a lot more than how real it was. Thats what I think he's trying to do here. And I think its kinda neat of an approach if so.

So to me the folks complaining about whos casting this, how period accurate the knights are(ignoring the racist undertones that will obviously rear their head in discussions surrounding this) are missing the point. He is not concerned with recreation. Hes an artist telling a story the way he wants it to be told, and he wants to tell it the way the oldest storytellers did. With embellishment, with grand scope, and with impact.

I hope the movies good, and that hes successful in doing so.

You may have encapsulated Nolans thought process and how he informed his decisions. But this was probably the last BEST chance to have someone REALLY try to teleport an audience 3000 years to the past and see what it may have actually looked like in our lifetimes. Big sets, accurate (as we understand it) costumes, capture the beauty and majesty of the story. I think everything you mentioned could ALSO have been done without all the "modernisms". So it feels a lot more like....

 

[NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt]

I've prettt much only heDd about this film from debates from film bros on reddit, "anti wokers" playing their usual tune, and everything in between but I hadn't actually looked at anything from the mouth or eyes of rhe actual artist making the art.

So I did and watched the second trailer. I normally watch only 1 movie trailer if at all. I liked the trailer. I will probably be seeing the movie.

The casting decisions are seen by some to be some sort of signal, some sort of message, despite the repertoire of this director, and I can't help but see that as hammers only seeing a nail. The way I see it, and based on Nolans own words may be accurate, is that he's approaching this in a classical theater sense. The way how back in ye olde days the performance and the role supercedes anything the eyes could see. When young men would play the women in plays, and when demonic entity was 3 guys in black robes waving around paper machete masks.

Hes boiling the characters down to their base characters and archetypes, as both a reflection of how derived all of our works are from those archetypes by means of natural evolution of culture, and also as a reflection of how we see media and associate it with these long forgotten tales that kicked off all this. After all, most complaining haven't read the odyssey. I know I haven't.

And you can see this not just in the casting but in the visuals and set designs too. Nolan is making no attempt at transporting us back to a real age long last. Hes transporting us to a time that exists solely in the throes of fantasy. Therss both racial and structural anachronisms... I see these as deliberate as there being blimp still flying around in Gotham city.

Nolan wasn't concerned with representing greeks with Athena. He wants "beautiful woman" archetype. So he casts one of the most beautiful women in the world(and yes, she is. Cope). He wasn't concerned with accurately creating the Trojan horse, haphazard and put together in a day. Boiled down, were expecting a fake horse, so he puts a fake horse that looks like leo da Vinci sculpted it. Why? Because the story says it was convincing enough as a gift for a king so that's what he put in there. The story wants a poet, so he puts in a rapper. Rappers are the most culturally dominant poets of our time. Theres no argument against this that holds any water, and it doesn't matter if you like rap or not. Thats just what it is.(now, I would have personally gone with a different rapper, but I digress).

Its a bizarre and bold approach. But I kinda can dig it. Hes eschewing the facsimile of verisimilitude that we are so accustomed to. Where we are used to being more concerned with appearing "correct" than story telling. Back in the odle times, accuracy was an occasional happenstance of story retelling, of oral history. It was not an expectation nor was if a benefit. Because how the story felt mattered a lot more than how real it was. Thats what I think he's trying to do here. And I think its kinda neat of an approach if so.

So to me the folks complaining about whos casting this, how period accurate the knights are(ignoring the racist undertones that will obviously rear their head in discussions surrounding this) are missing the point. He is not concerned with recreation. Hes an artist telling a story the way he wants it to be told, and he wants to tell it the way the oldest storytellers did. With embellishment, with grand scope, and with impact.

I hope the movies good, and that hes successful in doing so.

It's gonna to be interesting if this ends up bombing which is looking likely. For a Nolan film other than not being a fan of most of the cast, it just looks bad when it comes to visuals and setting

 

[Toons]

It's gonna to be interesting if this ends up bombing which is looking likely. For a Nolan film other than not being a fan of most of the cast, it just looks bad when it comes to visuals and setting

It could. No idea.

Thats the studios concern tho. Not mine is, likely not even nolans at this point. Mine is if the movies enjoyable to watch.

 

[Dr Bass]

I don't see why anyone would have travis scott as a poet in a Odyssey flick unless they get off by using black people for no other reason than feeling like they are helping diversity.

And even if that is wrong and travis scott fits, absolutely NO ONE would put elliot page on a salary without an agenda. You have to seek her out and make a role for her to put her in a film, there is no normal role that make sense for her. It's 100% performative, even if it's just 20 seconds of screentime.

Travis Scott also did the closing track in Tenet. Seems like Nolan just doing his thing of repeatedly working with people he likes.

 

[nkarafo]

The story wants a poet, so he puts in a rapper. Rappers are the most culturally dominant poets of our time. Theres no argument against this that holds any water, and it doesn't matter if you like rap or not. Thats just what it is.

I wish i was a rapper because i have no combination of words to comment on this nonsense.

After all, most complaining haven't read the odyssey. I know I haven't.

I was taught Homer's works in school. Among other ancient Greece arts and history. It's kind of my culture.

 

[Giallo Corsa]

I've prettt much only heDd about this film from debates from film bros on reddit, "anti wokers" playing their usual tune, and everything in between but I hadn't actually looked at anything from the mouth or eyes of rhe actual artist making the art.

So I did and watched the second trailer. I normally watch only 1 movie trailer if at all. I liked the trailer. I will probably be seeing the movie.

The casting decisions are seen by some to be some sort of signal, some sort of message, despite the repertoire of this director, and I can't help but see that as hammers only seeing a nail. The way I see it, and based on Nolans own words may be accurate, is that he's approaching this in a classical theater sense. The way how back in ye olde days the performance and the role supercedes anything the eyes could see. When young men would play the women in plays, and when demonic entity was 3 guys in black robes waving around paper machete masks.

Hes boiling the characters down to their base characters and archetypes, as both a reflection of how derived all of our works are from those archetypes by means of natural evolution of culture, and also as a reflection of how we see media and associate it with these long forgotten tales that kicked off all this. After all, most complaining haven't read the odyssey. I know I haven't.

And you can see this not just in the casting but in the visuals and set designs too. Nolan is making no attempt at transporting us back to a real age long last. Hes transporting us to a time that exists solely in the throes of fantasy. Therss both racial and structural anachronisms... I see these as deliberate as there being blimp still flying around in Gotham city.

Nolan wasn't concerned with representing greeks with Athena. He wants "beautiful woman" archetype. So he casts one of the most beautiful women in the world(and yes, she is. Cope). He wasn't concerned with accurately creating the Trojan horse, haphazard and put together in a day. Boiled down, were expecting a fake horse, so he puts a fake horse that looks like leo da Vinci sculpted it. Why? Because the story says it was convincing enough as a gift for a king so that's what he put in there. The story wants a poet, so he puts in a rapper. Rappers are the most culturally dominant poets of our time. Theres no argument against this that holds any water, and it doesn't matter if you like rap or not. Thats just what it is.(now, I would have personally gone with a different rapper, but I digress).

Its a bizarre and bold approach. But I kinda can dig it. Hes eschewing the facsimile of verisimilitude that we are so accustomed to. Where we are used to being more concerned with appearing "correct" than story telling. Back in the odle times, accuracy was an occasional happenstance of story retelling, of oral history. It was not an expectation nor was if a benefit. Because how the story felt mattered a lot more than how real it was. Thats what I think he's trying to do here. And I think its kinda neat of an approach if so.

So to me the folks complaining about whos casting this, how period accurate the knights are(ignoring the racist undertones that will obviously rear their head in discussions surrounding this) are missing the point. He is not concerned with recreation. Hes an artist telling a story the way he wants it to be told, and he wants to tell it the way the oldest storytellers did. With embellishment, with grand scope, and with impact.

I hope the movies good, and that hes successful in doing so.

I suppose you also wouldn't have a problem with the slaves in the Amistad being portrayed by Asians, Latinos, or especially white people either, right? Or Shaka Zulu being portrayed by a seven-foot-tall blond Swedish guy?
Were you also OK with Netflix's Cleopatra ? No agenda whatsoever in that one also, right ?
A r t i s t i c c h o I c e s, am I right ?

Listen, you can throw around the usual (and incredibly tired) thinly veiled accusations of "racism" and rant about "anti-woke people", but the whole blind worship surrounding this is honestly one of the weakest excuse factories I've seen in years. You're accusing others of "missing the point" while siding with Hollyweird on something people are clearly tired of.

That's the part that's amazing to me. People express frustration with obvious ideological casting choices or historical revisionism and somehow they're the problem. But hey, as long as you get your two-and-a-half hours of entertainment and can walk out saying "I had fun", I guess that's all that matters now.

Fucking hell, between the "rap being the closest thing to oral poetry", the chud and racism accusations, the glazing of a Hollywood Elite's work with "everyone else being in the wrong"... maybe it's you that's missing the whole point.

 

[thefool]

That post is so ridiculous it doesn't even deserve a quote. Rappers are modern poets lol. Dude was frustrated not posting for a month most likely

Only thing relevant to quote

I know I haven't.

Yeah, we know you haven't.

 

[kruis]

That's the part that's amazing to me. People express frustration with obvious ideological casting choices or historical revisionism and somehow they're the problem. But hey, as long as you get your two-and-a-half hours of entertainment and can walk out saying "I had fun", I guess that's all that matters now.

I don't see how anyone could get 2.5 hours of entertainment out of a movie when you're constantly rolling your eyes at the stupidity shown on screen. At most you're getting a well directed action movie that's hamstrung by the awful casting, the inauthentic costumes and sets and modern US speech.

 

[Avid Reading Horse]

 

[L*][*N*K]

holy shit this thread has over 790 replies and the vast majority are just people hysterically losing their shit over Helen of Troy, absolute inanity.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

All media is a form of art. Christopher Nolan wants to put out his vision of this story.

The problem is that this is not HIS vision. This is subversion. The Odyssey is based on SOMEONE ELSE'S WORK, one of the most important works in western history and he's basically shitting on it.

There's no way the movie turns out any good the same way a movie on MLK featuring a blonde girl as protagonist could not be good either. This fantasy is based on REAL countries, REAL ethnicities, REAL institutions and REAL beliefs. Nolan and his crew and the whole Hollywood pedophile establishment are disrespecting them for ideological reasons. If they did something like that to a myth of another certain religion, a plane would crash into the movie set.

I'm sick of nihilistic motherfuckers who are contributing to tear apart the fabric of the best civilization the world has known just for vanity. Fuck all of them.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

The degree of it is unreasonable. It's a movie.

But it's not just any movie.
It's a high budget, major motion picture from a highly acclaimed director, based on one of the most famous pieces of storytelling in world history.

The fate of this movie will absolutely, unquestionably influence filmmaking for a few years at least.
And every decision taken in making this movie will be imitated - or not, depending on its reception.
After all, we have Marvel quips and storytelling everywhere because Marvel superhero movies dominated cinemas for more than a decade. This is the same kind of movie. Except it's based on a major public domain story, meaning how it treats that kind of story will affect similar attempts for a while.

Moreover, even if it's just a movie and you think people on GAF are overreacting, it's easy to predict that the fate of this movie will have two possible consequences:
- if it's very successful, the way it does things will be THE way to do things in major motion pictures for some time, and
- if it's unsuccessful, a loud part of society will blame everyone and everything under the sun except the actors, the director, the choices made in making the movie, or the movie itself.

 

[JimmyRustler]

...and this is the whole thing/main problem man

we've reached a point (not to mention, peak idiocracy) were ignorance is actually celebrated.

I don't have anything else to add Kain

Why not just say "I don't know" before blabbering some obvious nonsense like the US or UK (LOL!!!)?

 

[Laptop1991]

It's just more of the same at this point and every film and TV show and game that tries this race and gender swapping/changing a countries history etc for agenda reason's, doesn't do well or fails completely, doesn't matter whose name is associated with it, this is already on the, can't be bothered to watch list, let them keep going to the same end, i just don't watch this so called entertainment anymore.

 

[John Bilbo]

Most likely the race and gerdnerd swaps are done to receive academy award nominations.

Diluted experience to receive the claps and attaboys.
Edit 2 - The Prequel of Edits: It seems only the Best Picture Award is under these INCLUSIVE AND LOVING ALL AROUND GOOD norms.
Edit: Straight from the horse's mouth:

Representation and Inclusion Standards | Oscars.org | Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences

www.oscars.org

STANDARD A: ON-SCREEN REPRESENTATION, THEMES AND NARRATIVES

A film can achieve this standard by meeting the criteria in at least ONE of the following areas:

A1. Lead or significant supporting actors from underrepresented racial or ethnic groups

At least one of the lead actors or significant supporting actors submitted for Oscar consideration is from an underrepresented racial or ethnic group in a specific country or territory of production.

This may include:
• African American / Black / African and/or Caribbean descent
• East Asian (including Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and Mongolian)
• Hispanic or Latina/e/o/x
• Indigenous Peoples (including Native American / Alaskan Native)
• Middle Eastern / North African
• Pacific Islander
• South Asian (including Bangladeshi, Bhutanese, Indian, Nepali, Pakistani, and Sri Lankan)
• Southeast Asian (including Burmese, Cambodian, Filipino, Hmong, Indonesian, Laotian, Malaysian, Mien, Singaporean, Thai, and Vietnamese)

A2. General ensemble cast

At least 30% of all actors not submitted for Oscar consideration are from at least two underrepresented groups which may include:

• Women
• Racial or ethnic group
• LGBTQ+
• People with cognitive or physical disabilities, or who are deaf or hard of hearing

A3. Main storyline/subject matter

The main storyline(s), theme or narrative of the film is centered on an underrepresented group(s).

• Women
• Racial or ethnic group
• LGBTQ+
• People with cognitive or physical disabilities, or who are deaf or hard of hearing

 

[Trilobit]

Here's a tricky question:

Would you rather have seen Henry Cavill as Helen of Troy?

 

[SJRB]

holy shit this thread has over 790 replies and the vast majority are just people hysterically losing their shit over Helen of Troy, absolute inanity.

Calm down buddy, sounds like you're hysterically losing your shit.

 

[L*][*N*K]

Calm down buddy, sounds like you're hysterically losing your shit.

That is Adorable, ChatGPT wrote that zinger for you?