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[Dural]

It's a Nolan film so I think it will at a minimum do good. Might underperform his usual box office numbers if the DEI backlash has a sizable impact, but Nolan has a fanbase who will pay to see anything he does, so a profitable movie at a minimum is a good bet. I mean DEI crap aside Nolan is still a great film maker after all.

Does he though? The vast majority of people I know have no clue who is directing a movie other than maybe Spielberg, and even he has bombs like West Side Story. Marketing is the #1 reason the vast majority of the population watch a movie, then word of mouth. We'll see, this could have a big opening weekend due to marketing then die due to bad word of mouth.

 

[DragoonKain]

The problem is that this is not HIS vision. This is subversion. The Odyssey is based on SOMEONE ELSE'S WORK, one of the most important works in western history and he's basically shitting on it.

There's no way the movie turns out any good the same way a movie on MLK featuring a blonde girl as protagonist could not be good either. This fantasy is based on REAL countries, REAL ethnicities, REAL institutions and REAL beliefs. Nolan and his crew and the whole Hollywood pedophile establishment are disrespecting them for ideological reasons. If they did something like that to a myth of another certain religion, a plane would crash into the movie set.

I'm sick of nihilistic motherfuckers who are contributing to tear apart the fabric of the best civilization the world has known just for vanity. Fuck all of them.

I'm sorry but I could not disagree with this more.

It is his vision. He's making his own version of a piece of art and a story. This happens all the time. People take an existing work and put their own spin on it. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But I think this argument would be a strong case if this movie took place in like Poland in the 1700s. And changed the names of all the characters. And changed almost the entire story. I would still argue that an artist has the right to make anything they want, but I think the idea that Nolan was "shitting on the work" would be a lot stronger if that were the case.

But really, 99% of the complaints I've seen about this movie come down to 2 things... Lupita Nyongo and Ellen/Elliot Page.

This could be the most amazing adaptation of the story ever for all we know. The movie is likely going to be super long, like 3 hours-ish long, Lupita Nyongo and Ellen/Elliot Page may be in the damn thing for 10 minutes of total screen time for all we know, and I'm supposed to be outraged because the skin color of one of the characters is different? I'm sorry, I think that's crazy. Lupita Nyongo is beautiful, she's a great actor. I couldn't care less. Changing the skin color of one character in like a 3 hour movie and casting one character who is trans is not remotely shitting on the story. I don't agree with that at all. Like I said, if the entire root of the story and every element of it would have been changed that would be one thing. But not having one character with a different skin color. Especially when she is beautiful, is a great actor, and after everyone sees the movie could think she did an amazing job in the role.

TLOU TV series changed Maria from a white character to a black character, changed Joel and Tommy from white to Latino. Hardly anyone cared. And this was with the original creator Druckmann himself working on the project. Is that him shitting on his own work even though the story and overall plot and soul of it was largely the same, but the characters were just planned by people whose ethnicities were different?

I'm just not going to get bent out of shape over one part of a massive movie project. If you want to go ahead. But I will never get on board with something that trivial, especially on a fictional story. I'm just not going to agree with you on this one.

 

[DiamondHands]

holy shit this thread has over 790 replies and the vast majority are just people hysterically losing their shit over Helen of Troy, absolute inanity.

LoL exactly ... thread reads like a edgelords twitter feed and be be summed up into

- Helen of Troy is black
- Achilles is Trans

Helen is mentioned like 23 times in 24 books and she's the daughter of Zeus disguised as a Swan raping her mum. I'm more outraged that she doesn't have feathers sticking out her ass

 

[jason10mm]

I'm sorry but I could not disagree with this more.

It is his vision. He's making his own version of a piece of art and a story. This happens all the time. People take an existing work and put their own spin on it. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But I think this argument would be a strong case if this movie took place in like Poland in the 1700s. And changed the names of all the characters. And changed almost the entire story. I would still argue that an artist has the right to make anything they want, but I think the idea that Nolan was "shitting on the work" would be a lot stronger if that were the case.

But really, 99% of the complaints I've seen about this movie come down to 2 things... Lupita Nyongo and Ellen/Elliot Page.

Nah, we've been skeptical about this thing from the first on set photos showing shitty armor and shitty ships and shitty sets. The casting choices just feed into a general "this is not what I was hoping for" vibe from some of us.

This could be the most amazing adaptation of the story ever for all we know. The movie is likely going to be super long, like 3 hours-ish long, Lupita Nyongo and Ellen/Elliot Page may be in the damn thing for 10 minutes of total screen time for all we know, and I'm supposed to be outraged because the skin color of one of the characters is different? I'm sorry, I think that's crazy. Lupita Nyongo is beautiful, she's a great actor. I couldn't care less. Changing the skin color of one character in like a 3 hour movie and casting one character who is trans is not remotely shitting on the story. I don't agree with that at all. Like I said, if the entire root of the story and every element of it would have been changed that would be one thing. But not having one character with a different skin color. Especially when she is beautiful, is a great actor, and after everyone sees the movie could think she did an amazing job in the role.

Had Nolan just set this thing in modern times or some fantasy planet then most of his choices would have not been an issue. But he seems to be ATTEMPTING to stick it in ancient Greece/Mediterranean sea and adds enough pseudo-Spartan iconography in it that it's pretty clear this is supposed to be the traditional setting, it's just all messed up. Then he says stuff like "well, they had ancient bronze back then and it was rare, so lets just make an entire set of armor from it"

I'm just not going to get bent out of shape over one part of a massive movie project. If you want to go ahead. But I will never get on board with something that trivial, especially on a fictional story. I'm just not going to agree with you on this one.

Troy actually exists. Sparta exists. Ithaca exists. The Iliad is most likely a tale based on a real event, so it's entirely possible that Helen of Troy was an actual person to some degree, as were many of the other people mentioned, even if the names were different. Even the Odyssey, as fantastical as it is, may have been based on real world events and places and then hammered into the world view of the people of the time and eternal lessons of humanity baked into it.

The Odyssey isn't a wholly fictional narrative, it's using real places and probably real people to create a culturally relevant transmission of information. So it is not something that can just be handwaved away as "it's all made up, folks", and if you want to retell it, then change the setting to match the set dressing! But of course if you change the setting, then when you change the values and the message it becomes an entirely different thing. Nolan is trying to keep the setting juuuuuuust enough to lure in an audience expecting the traditional Odyssey and then (most likely) feed them some subverted slop that is a slap in the face of the foundational culture that built the entire West.

Also possible that Nolan wants to deliver a traditional experience but he can't in todays environment so he is servicing an external agenda just to get the $$$ he needs, but I find that unlikely. At no point is Lupita or Page a MANDATORY inclusion, or some rapper. Those are choices, no question, probably designed to create the very conversation we are having, because younger audiences have little to no attachment to The Odyssey because western education has turned to shit in the past few decades. Whether it pays off with box office $$$ remains to be seen.

 

[Killer8]

Trooth nook.

 

[EviLore]

Yes. Homer is storytelling. The storyteller can choose to stay grounded or can include embellishments.

The arrow hit that guy. He died.

or

In that instant, a flash of light stretched across the heavens. Apollo watched on, and guided his arrow unerringly to its target.

Even today, you know, people vastly prefer mythos when it comes to storytelling.

To the ancient Greeks who barely survived the Bronze Age collapse, these stories were everything they had for centuries. They lost their written language and had to start over, but the Age of Heroes stayed with them.

 

[John Bilbo]

Trooth nook.

Now I'm imagining a Christopher Nolan Christmas movie.

 

[jason10mm]

Trooth nook.

The "just how did the Trojan Horse ruse work?" was one of the things I had hoped Nolan would actually figure out. Spend the $$$ academics don't have and come up with a horse effigy that could have been built from the scraps the greeks had in their camp, could have hid a few men (not the entire platoon some versions show, perhaps), and validate the myth.

Kind of like what Steven Spielberg did with Jurassic Park where his computer modelling shows that T-rexes HAD to move differently and they went from this

to this

because for the first time enough resources and the right people were put on the problem.

That's what we COULD have had with the Odyssey.

 

[Mengy]

I'm just not going to get bent out of shape over one part of a massive movie project. If you want to go ahead. But I will never get on board with something that trivial, especially on a fictional story. I'm just not going to agree with you on this one.

Maybe you aren't going to get bent out of shape, but many people will. The story of The Odyssey is classical historical literature. It's been around for a very long time. It's beloved by many people and its very dear to the Greeks. So, when someone from the west goes changing key details just because he A) wants to, or B) wants to meet Oscar criteria, well a lot of people are going to take offense to that.

I hope you enjoy the movie very much. I do not think I will, and I say that as a large fan of Nolan's other films. I've read The Odyssey many times in my life and many choices Nolan has made will only take me out of the movie in a very bad way. I'd rather do something else than purposefully watch a film which will bother me.

 

[Toons]

I suppose you also wouldn't have a problem with the slaves in the Amistad being portrayed by Asians, Latinos, or especially white people either, right? Or Shaka Zulu being portrayed by a seven-foot-tall blond Swedish guy?
Were you also OK with Netflix's Cleopatra ? No agenda whatsoever in that one also, right ?
A r t i s t i c c h o I c e s, am I right ?

I didnt watch Netflix cleopatra. But im under the impression that movie is attempting to recreate historical events. As would a hypothetical movie about slaves of amistad.

The odyssey is a bit different than that.

Listen, you can throw around the usual (and incredibly tired) thinly veiled accusations of "racism" and rant about "anti-woke people",

If you think my post was a rant, I can only conclude you didn't read it.

And they're not thinly viewed accusations of racism. They're overt accusations. Not because of not liking the casting tho. That in and of itself isn't racist.

That's the part that's amazing to me. People express frustration with obvious ideological casting choices or historical revisionism and somehow they're the problem. But hey, as long as you get your two-and-a-half hours of entertainment and can walk out saying "I had fun", I guess that's all that matters now.

Buddy, you're preaching to the choir. My people and my culture have been exploited my Hollywood almost more than anyone else's has in their media. And it's still happening.

But if you really think Christopher Nolan made this movie to attack greeks or white people or becayse he hates white people I dont think you're viewing this through a realistic lens, nor one based on his actual output, but through an ideological one.

Fucking hell, between the "rap being the closest thing to oral poetry", the chud and racism accusations, the glazing of a Hollywood Elite's work with "everyone else being in the wrong"... maybe it's you that's missing the whole point.

I think you're misrepresenting rhe argument I'm making and not engaging with it on the level it's intended. I'd recommend you actually read what I'm saying here.

 

[RaduN]

Lol @ the snowflake people

When Coppola made Dracula ('92) with Gary Oldman and Winona, i was so damn proud as a romanian, that such amazing actors play these roles (Vlad Tepes and his wife). Didn't give a fuck that Coppola didn't use "transilvanian" actors, or "romanian" looking actors. Not a single fuck. Still rewatch the movie every few years, a masterpiece.

Odyssey will probably be the movie of the decade, even if review bombed to hell by retards.

 

[Toons]

Yes. Homer is storytelling. The storyteller can choose to stay grounded or can include embellishments.

The arrow hit that guy. He died.

or

In that instant, a flash of light stretched across the heavens. Apollo watched on, and guided his arrow unerringly to its target.

Even today, you know, people vastly prefer mythos when it comes to storytelling.

To the ancient Greeks who barely survived the Bronze Age collapse, these stories were everything they had for centuries. They lost their written language and had to start over, but the Age of Heroes stayed with them.

The post above yours suggets than Nolan is obsessed with "explaining the myth" id say his filmography offers much of the opposite sentiment.

While the dark knight movies are famous "grounded" portrayals of batman(and thats being generous) his movies like interstellar, tenet and inception play fast and loose with physics, with science and with time.

Nolan is an entertainer first and foremost. His movies are always about entertainment with a simplistic, carnal theme baked in. Its why it doesn't surprise me he enjoys fast and furious.hes usually doing a similar thing those movies do. Simple universal theme "family" baked in a bunch of mumbo jumbo that is overtly ornate and complex. Sometimes he ventures outside of that but its a well established traits of his movies. They all have this sort of myth like approach to them even when they are depicting the mundane.

I think its one of his stronger traits. And all the hallmarks of it appear present in this movie.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Nolan fanboys are up there with the most annoying people on the internet. The dude is a genre director that is above average only because the average Hollywood director is a pedo or a nepo-baby.

 

[jason10mm]

Lol @ the snowflake people

When Coppola made Dracula ('92) with Gary Oldman and Winona, i was so damn proud as a romanian, that such amazing actors play these roles (Vlad Tepes and his wife). Didn't give a fuck that Coppola didn't use "transilvanian" actors, or "romanian" looking actors. Not a single fuck. Still rewatch the movie every few years, a masterpiece.

Odyssey will probably be the movie of the decade, even if review bombed to hell by retards.

But how would you have felt if an Australian Aboriginal man played the Count? Was Gary Oldman "close enough" to pass, or could literally any human or animal fit the bill?

armor aside, he seems like he would fit right in.....

 

[Toons]

I wish i was a rapper because i have no combination of words to comment on this nonsense.

Well... that kinda proves my point doesn't it?

I was taught Homer's works in school. Among other ancient Greece arts and history. It's kind of my culture.

So would you consider yourself closed off from adaptations of that work that use heavy artistic license?

Do you consider this to be any more or similarly offensive as that last Noah movie from a while ago, or Jesus christ superstar, or similar films that use loose portrayal of historical myth?

 

[IDKFA]

Lol @ the snowflake people

When Coppola made Dracula ('92) with Gary Oldman and Winona, i was so damn proud as a romanian, that such amazing actors play these roles (Vlad Tepes and his wife). Didn't give a fuck that Coppola didn't use "transilvanian" actors, or "romanian" looking actors. Not a single fuck. Still rewatch the movie every few years, a masterpiece.

Are you being obtuse, or just trying to rage bait?

Gary Oldman playing Dracula isn't comparable.

Odyssey will probably be the movie of the decade, even if review bombed to hell by retards.

Lol. Must be rage baiting. Either that or a snowflake who can handle a different opinion

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

I didnt watch Netflix cleopatra. But im under the impression that movie is attempting to recreate historical events

Considering that Cleopatra was MACEDONIAN with her skin whiter than mine, any intention to "recreate historical events" goes out the window. That was an ideological panflet (also racist) that disrespects everything shown in it and triggered Egiptian authorities as this turd by Nolan is triggering the people who don't like seeing their legacy vandalized.

For Nolan the only reason to do this casting is posturing and winning Oscars.

For Hollywood, it's pure leftie contempt towards Europe and its culture. They are incapable of creating anything of worth so they steal and corrupt. Nauseating.

 

[RaduN]

But how would you have felt if an Australian Aboriginal man played the Count? Was Gary Oldman "close enough" to pass, or could literally any human or animal fit the bill?

armor aside, he seems like he would fit right in.....

Why would he be? He is an actual historical figure.
His Dracula form however was all kinds of crazy, from pale cadaver to 100 rats.

 

[IDKFA]

Do you consider this to be any more or similarly offensive as that last Noah movie from a while ago, or Jesus christ superstar, or similar films that use loose portrayal of historical myth?

Probably about the same? Maybe a little bit more because of the odd accent choices.

 

[Toons]

Considering that Cleopatra was MACEDONIAN with her skin whiter than mine, any intention to "recreate historical events" goes out the window. That was an ideological panflet (also racist) that disrespects everything shown in it and triggered Egiptian authorities as this turd by Nolan is triggering the people who don't like seeing their legacy vandalized.

For Nolan the only reason to do this casting is posturing and winning Oscars.

For Hollywood, it's pure leftie contempt towards Europe and its culture. They are incapable of creating anything of worth so they steal and corrupt. Nauseating.

I find this humorous for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the open contempt American conservatives have shown Europe of late. But thats a topic for anther time.

Again, I didnt see cleopatra, im not defending it, I dont know anything about it. Im very aware that cleopatra was not a black woman.

But again, you're not engaging with the point of my initial post because you're only viewing this through ideological lenses but Nolan clearly is applying this same approach to all avenues of the film. Even before the casting was announced, we had people upset about the production and visuals not being hisotrically accurate either. Is inaccurate armor "leftist"? Are square, ahistorical pillars and ridiculously pristine Trojan horses "leftist"? I dont think so. I think is a sign of nolans approach to the movie as a whole, and his artistic priorities for adapting it.

Thats what I'm engaging with. If you're going to simply write Nolan off as a "woke lefty" from now on thats your business. But I have nothing to add to that particular discussion.

 

[L*][*N*K]

LoL exactly ... thread reads like a edgelords twitter feed and be be summed up into

- Helen of Troy is black
- Achilles is Trans

Helen is mentioned like 23 times in 24 books and she's the daughter of Zeus disguised as a Swan raping her mum. I'm more outraged that she doesn't have feathers sticking out her ass

Funny enough the Eliott Page thing turned out to be totally made up and not true, so it is just the black Helen they can't jerk off to that pissed them of so much

 

[Moondoggy]

Considering that Cleopatra was MACEDONIAN with her skin whiter than mine, any intention to "recreate historical events" goes out the window. That was an ideological panflet (also racist) that disrespects everything shown in it and triggered Egiptian authorities as this turd by Nolan is triggering the people who don't like seeing their legacy vandalized.

For Nolan the only reason to do this casting is posturing and winning Oscars.

For Hollywood, it's pure leftie contempt towards Europe and its culture. They are incapable of creating anything of worth so they steal and corrupt. Nauseating.

Nolan's Odyssey, brought to you by the same type of politically infused "historians" that say things like, "My Grandma knows better".

 

[GymWolf]

Edit: meh why bother...

 

[IDKFA]

so it is just the black Helen they can't jerk off to that pissed them of so much

What's with the aggressive rage bait? Why so angry? Can you not have a civilised discussion?

Honestly, I'm now used to ethnic European historical (in this case probably more myth) characters being race swapped. It happens so often now that it's become a trope.

I'm more disappointed with the dialogue and general casting (Jon Bernthal?) and the mandated American accents. It also looks like it was made by AI, but that's personal taste.

 

[Bojji]

I suppose you also wouldn't have a problem with the slaves in the Amistad being portrayed by Asians, Latinos, or especially white people either, right? Or Shaka Zulu being portrayed by a seven-foot-tall blond Swedish guy?
Were you also OK with Netflix's Cleopatra ? No agenda whatsoever in that one also, right ?
A r t i s t i c c h o I c e s, am I right ?

Listen, you can throw around the usual (and incredibly tired) thinly veiled accusations of "racism" and rant about "anti-woke people", but the whole blind worship surrounding this is honestly one of the weakest excuse factories I've seen in years. You're accusing others of "missing the point" while siding with Hollyweird on something people are clearly tired of.

That's the part that's amazing to me. People express frustration with obvious ideological casting choices or historical revisionism and somehow they're the problem. But hey, as long as you get your two-and-a-half hours of entertainment and can walk out saying "I had fun", I guess that's all that matters now.

Fucking hell, between the "rap being the closest thing to oral poetry", the chud and racism accusations, the glazing of a Hollywood Elite's work with "everyone else being in the wrong"... maybe it's you that's missing the whole point.

Exactly.

This is not any "creative vision", this shit was changed on purpose to fit the quotas (like in that video I linked), filmmakers are not making the movies they want - they are forced to make movies in a specific way to even be nominated to the biggest movie awards for the best picture. Story and historical accuracy can go fuck themselves...

It's fucking sick, and all the people that pretend they don't see what is happening ("what is woke?") are either on the same side of this shit or just useful idiots. The same people would cry "racism" if any of the historical black or Asian figures would be replaces by a white actor.

 

[Toons]

Exactly.

This is not any "creative vision", this shit was changed on purpose to fit the quotas (like in that video I linked), filmmakers are not making the movies they want - they are forced to make movies in a specific way to even be nominated to the biggest movie awards for the best picture. Story and historical accuracy can go fuck themselves...

Christopher Nolan is not being forced, coerced or in any way incentivized to make any movie he doesn't want to lol.

This is his vision and its in line with plenty of his movies.

It's fucking sick, and all the people that pretend they don't see this shit ("what is woke?") are either on the same side of this shit or just useful idiots. The same people would cry "racism" if any of the historical black or Asian figures would be replaces by a white actor.

Or the historical middle eastern ones

Hollywood never cared that much about integrity. Some of the creatives do. Hollywood just cares if it makes money. They don't care how blasphemous, offensive, disrespectful or crass soemthing is. That has never changed. And to be frank, some art that is any of those things has its place too. Sometimes some of those works become very important.

But I dont think that's even nolans goal with this.

 

[jason10mm]

Christopher Nolan is not being forced, coerced or in any way incentivized to make any movie he doesn't want to lol.

This is his vision and its in line with plenty of his movies.



Or the historical middle eastern ones

Hollywood never cared that much about integrity. Some of the creatives do. Hollywood just cares if it makes money. They don't care how blasphemous, offensive, disrespectful or crass soemthing is. That has never changed. And to be frank, some art that is any of those things has its place too. Sometimes some of those works become very important.

But I dont think that's even nolans goal with this.

What exactly do you think jewish/israeli men look like?

None of the Jesus actors would be particularly out of place AT ALL in Israel, even with blue eyes! Granted, they could go darker for Jesus as well, but it's ludicrous to say the lighter skin is somehow "whitewashing".

note for others, do NOT google "Israeli men" at work unless your safe search is on

 

[Bojji]

Christopher Nolan is not being forced, coerced or in any way incentivized to make any movie he doesn't want to lol.

This is his vision and its in line with plenty of his movies.



Or the historical middle eastern ones

Hollywood never cared that much about integrity. Some of the creatives do. Hollywood just cares if it makes money. They don't care how blasphemous, offensive, disrespectful or crass soemthing is. That has never changed. And to be frank, some art that is any of those things has its place too. Sometimes some of those works become very important.

But I dont think that's even nolans goal with this.

That's not even remotely comparable, Ashkenazi Jews are hard to tell from Europeans (or even impossible) and their ancestry started in Judea.

Remember that before Arab conquest, Egypt and Levant regions were much whiter than now (not to say people there looked like Swedes).

And we have no idea how Jesus looked like in reality (if he even existed).

 

[Toons]

That's not even remotely comparable, Ashkenazi Jews are hard to tell from Europeans (or even impossible) and their ancestry started in Judea.

Not a single one of those people in the image is Jewish lmao. There are Jewish actors. They just didn't cast them.

Remember that before Arab conquest, Egypt and Levant regions were much whiter than now (not to say people there looked like Swedes).

And we have no idea how Jesus looked like in reality (if he even existed).

Jesus definitely existed. And he was a Jewish man, who definitely appeared Jewish. That could go a variety of different ways but we know he didn't look like a spaniard or like a British guy. That would've been notable at the time.

And regardless of how they appear to us; they would not have been in any way considered the same race in their time. Because race is a made up thing, for which categorization have changed. Our modern categorization of "white" is not even similar to the one the greeks would've used.

In fact, if you traveled back in time and showed this oddyseey trailer to them, matt damon playing odysseyus would've been more offensive than anything else.

 

[Bojji]

Not a single one of those people in the image is Jewish lmao. There are Jewish actors. They just didn't cast them.




Jesus definitely existed. And he was a Jewish man, who definitely appeared Jewish. That could go a variety of different ways but we know he didn't look like a spaniard or like a British guy. That would've been notable at the time.

And regardless of how they appear to us; they would not have been in any way considered the same race in their time. Because race is a made up thing, for which categorization have changed. Our modern categorization of "white" is not even similar to the one the greeks would've used.

In fact, if you traveled back in time and showed this oddyseey trailer to them, matt damon playing odysseyus would've been more offensive than anything else.

Who said that I like Matt Damon cast? But you know what would be more offensive to them? Seeing Lupita as Helen of Troy, Rappers and transgender person (formerly a woman) as Achilles. You can ask modern day Greeks in this thread and listen to what they think about this...

Judaism is a religion, it's something you can choose (unlike your ethnicity). And those actors (you posted) are far closer to the real Jesus than Lupita is to the Helen of Troy.

 

[John Bilbo]

I do like the effort Gibson has put in his Jesus movie with the language. As a Finn I'm used to reading subtitles in foreign films and it is cool and more impressive for the filmmaker to strive for authenticity with the spoken language.

Such authenticity would have been spot on for Odyssey.

 

[AJUMP23]

I watched the 60 minutes interview, and I like the report, I will most likely go see it. I do not care for the casting choices in some areas.

 

[falconhoof]

There's been some stupid shit posted in here, clearly in attempt to reduce hundreds of posts down to an easy attack category. Didn't I rant on about doing that yesterday?

No, this entire thread has not been a bunch of racists ranting about a black woman cast in a non-black role. To say as much clearly shows intent to stir up division, perhaps to troll, perhaps out of ones own ideology, but it's wrong.

I'm not going to read back through all of the posts so here's some off the top of the head memories of this thread:

- Casting issues across the board. Matt Damon, the guy playing Telemachus, well, pretty much everyone has come up in some form of critique
- The visuals: Inaccuracies, style, reasonings, lighting, tone. Lots of critique
- The language: Dad, Daddy, Let's Goooooooooooo!! Lots of critique
- The source: The version of the story the movie is based on. Commentary on rumors, quotes from the director, how versions differ
- Other versions: Comparisons to other movies, TV shows, interpretations, other stories that have had interpretive treatment such as the '97 Romeo and Juliet

But sure, it's just a bunch of racists ranting about a single thing as the entire reason as to why this movie should fail.

 

[Jinzo Prime]

Trooth nook.

Nolan is going to give us the postmodern, emotionless, realist interpretation of a foundational myth.

Can you imagine what Nolan's take on the Bible would be? How sterile and boring and political it would be? Some things need magic, and Nolan has lost his spark.

 

[near]

Interestingly, the casting director is the same casting director Nolan has worked with since Memento.

 

[IDKFA]

Jesus definitely existed. And he was a Jewish man, who definitely appeared Jewish. That could go a variety of different ways but we know he didn't look like a spaniard or like a British guy. That would've been notable at the time.

And regardless of how they appear to us; they would not have been in any way considered the same race in their time. Because race is a made up thing, for which categorization have changed. Our modern categorization of "white" is not even similar to the one the greeks would've used.

This is one of the most nonsensical posts I've seen. Olympic levels of mental gymnastics on display here.

In fact, if you traveled back in time and showed this oddyseey trailer to them, matt damon playing odysseyus would've been more offensive than anything else.

It gets worse.

You think the people of the ancient Greek world would find Matt Damon's casting the most offensive part of this film? Crazy take.

Their theater tradition already involved heavy stylisation, masks, exaggerated performances etc. A 5th century Athenian watching a modern film would already find the entire medium bizarre. Matt Damon wouldn't even register with them.

You said it so matter-of-factly as it was some kind of "gottcha" but it's such a nonsensical argument that I'm shocked that you even attempted it.

Embarrassing

 

[falconhoof]

I do like the effort Gibson has put in his Jesus movie with the language. As a Finn I'm used to reading subtitles in foreign films and it is cool and more impressive for the filmmaker to strive for authenticity with the spoken language.

Such authenticity would have been spot on for Odyssey.

That captures the kind of bold effort I hoped a director with such power of Nolan would have gone for. There are few directors in Hollywood that would be able to walk into the room and say they were going to make a movie in ancient Greek, using no celeb cast, and delivering something unlike any other epic we've seen, closer to something like Apocalypto (just without the DUI marketing part).

Give me a 4 hour long IMAX movie with grandiose shots, surreal moments that take me on a journey to 3000 years ago. Make me leave the cinema feeling like I just witnessed a milestone event that will be recalled for the rest of time.

Maybe there's a bait and switch about to happen (there isn't) where we don't get conversations about Daddy. We don't get modern day rap stand in for an ancient Greek poet, and we don't get whatever the fuck the visuals have been in every trailer and teaser shown thus far.

 

[jason10mm]

Interestingly, the casting director is the same casting director Nolan has worked with since Memento.

The casting was pretty good with a few exceptions. Katie Holmes, Denzel's kid, and this is controversial/blasphemous I know, but RDJ as well.

But sometimes folks get high on their own supply.

 

[John Bilbo]

Give me a 4 hour long IMAX movie with grandiose shots, surreal moments that take me on a journey to 3000 years ago. Make me leave the cinema feeling like I just witnessed a milestone event that will be recalled for the rest of time.

That would have been cool!

Looking forward to The Resurrection of The Christ.

 

[rkofan87]

nm

 

[rkofan87]

Let's cool down on calling this movie a piece of shit just because of a couple of casting decisions which are practically inconsequential.

 

[falconhoof]

Interestingly, the casting director is the same casting director Nolan has worked with since Memento.

Looking at his IMDB the dude has casted a huge number of productions with the quality bar being all over the place. I'm presuming he isn't given carte blanche on who to pick with Nolan and the studio execs being given much more power there.

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0660667

The dude was casting director on the Uncharted movie, The Suicide Squad, and Yellowstone. I've heard nothing but love for Yellowstone, and as for Uncharted I heard no love.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

It's funny to see people using the various actors who played Jesus as an example to handwave the fact that Nolan made some casting choices for his Odyssey for the sole reason of checking Oscar nomination boxes. It's really that simple. And while he was at it, somebody must have suggested to make those choices as inflammatory as possible. Nobody with a sound mind can imagine Elliot Page could make even a passable Achilles - or any warrior, really. Nolan likes Page as an actor and he could have cast him as Telemachus, that could have made more sense. But Page as Achilles (btw, is that even confirmed yet?) is 100% the suggestion of someone who wanted to rustle a few million jimmies for the lulz. It doesn't matter how much screentime Page gets. If he's Achilles, even a 10-second flashback will be enough to make the Greek gods laugh their asses off for a couple more millennia.

By the way, I suppose that applying current-day Oscar requirements to make an adaptation of the Odyssey is textbook cultural appropriation. But what do I know, right?

Lol @ the snowflake people

When Coppola made Dracula ('92) with Gary Oldman and Winona, i was so damn proud as a romanian, that such amazing actors play these roles (Vlad Tepes and his wife). Didn't give a fuck that Coppola didn't use "transilvanian" actors, or "romanian" looking actors. Not a single fuck. Still rewatch the movie every few years, a masterpiece.

Odyssey will probably be the movie of the decade, even if review bombed to hell by retards.

Nobody wants the cast to be all Greek. But some people would just like Hollywood stopped defiling history and literature to appease some modern-day ideals - and some director's ego.
By the way, I wonder what your reaction would have been if Coppola had casted Morgan Freeman or Denzel Washington as Dracula back in '92. But screw that, that's not even the point. The point is that Coppola cast a tremendous actor for a role that fit him like a glove, something that cannot be said for the Odyssey and dozens of other movies in the last 15 years or so. Hollywood didn't have to pretend to be inclusive back then. They had a phenomenal English actor, they cast him to play a Romanian. That's how unapologetic they were at the time, and they used to make amazing movies with brilliant performances and absolutely zero guilt. People will remember Gary Oldman's performance as Dracula way longer than they will anyone's performance in Nolan's "Odyssey".

 

[L*][*N*K]

What's with the aggressive rage bait? Why so angry? Can you not have a civilised discussion?

Honestly, I'm now used to ethnic European historical (in this case probably more myth) characters being race swapped. It happens so often now that it's become a trope.

I'm more disappointed with the dialogue and general casting (Jon Bernthal?) and the mandated American accents. It also looks like it was made by AI, but that's personal taste.

With someone like you who is losing his fucking mind because Zues's daughter who came out of a swan egg is not blonde? Like honestly man it is a movie you are more than welcome to not watch it. And btw calling someone angry and telling them to calm down is not really a "civilized conversation" either.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Yes. Homer is storytelling. The storyteller can choose to stay grounded or can include embellishments.

The arrow hit that guy. He died.

or

In that instant, a flash of light stretched across the heavens. Apollo watched on, and guided his arrow unerringly to its target.

Even today, you know, people vastly prefer mythos when it comes to storytelling.

To the ancient Greeks who barely survived the Bronze Age collapse, these stories were everything they had for centuries. They lost their written language and had to start over, but the Age of Heroes stayed with them.

there is a beautiful but disproven hypothesis that Ancient Greek innovated by including vowels into it because it was necessary to write down the homeric poems!

 

[Moondoggy]

I will give the trailer for this movie 1 point of praise, it made me go watch Troy again.

 

[near]

Looking at his IMDB the dude has casted a huge number of productions with the quality bar being all over the place. I'm presuming he isn't given carte blanche on who to pick with Nolan and the studio execs being given much more power there.

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0660667

The dude was casting director on the Uncharted movie, The Suicide Squad, and Yellowstone. I've heard nothing but love for Yellowstone, and as for Uncharted I heard no love.

I don't think the actors are bad by any means, but I think this suggests that ultimately this is really the cast Nolan wanted. Which is disappointing.

 

[IDKFA]

With someone like you who is losing his fucking mind because Zues's daughter who came out of a swan egg is not blonde?

Point me to the post where I'm "losing my mind" that Helen of Troy isn't blonde.

Like honestly man it is a movie you are more than welcome to not watch it.

Correct. I'm not losing sleep over it. Read my last post to you. The race swaps are not really the biggest issue for me.

And btw calling someone angry and telling them to calm down is not really a "civilized conversation" either.

I asked a question.

 

[near]

 

[ADiTAR]

saying "let's go" is weird,. Maybe this is like Assasin's Creed and there's some futuristic twist to it.