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The Official Halo 3: ODST Thread

I also just found myself several times on top of buildings or landscape jumping around where I totally wasn't supposed to be just exploring shit. Fun times especially going up after the covenant drop ships are disposed of and the pelican comes in on Delta Halo. Chasing the Scarab on Metropolis that just randomly disappears after coming to the end of a path of some buildings.
 
xxjuicesxx said:
I also just found myself several times on top of buildings or landscape jumping around where I totally wasn't supposed to be just exploring shit. Fun times especially going up after the covenant drop ships are disposed of and the pelican comes in on Delta Halo. Chasing the Scarab on Metropolis that just randomly disappears after coming to the end of a path of some buildings.
This is part of what made Halo 2 so great. The hours and hours I spent with my friends exploring the outsides of levels in MP and campaign. Bungie ruined the awesomeness by throwing up death barriers fucking everywhere in Halo 3.
I didn't like the glitches that people exploited in MP (I refused to ever use BXR or double shot), but playing around with them in custom games was epic fun times.
 
I picked up the game for cheap and I must say, the atmosphere and the music is awesome. I got tired of all the endless promos they had on XBL but man, Bungie wasn't kidding. It does feel different from the main Halo series, I think the music really adds to it.

I hear the SP campaign is short, a 10-hour game? If it is, it's just about right for me. I am quite comfortable with most games these days around that ball park.
 
Troidal said:
I hear the SP campaign is short, a 10-hour game? If it is, it's just about right for me. I am quite comfortable with most games these days around that ball park.
The campaign only took me around 6 hours I'd guess my first time through on Heroic. Not super long, but definitely sweet.
 
Stormtrooper30 said:
This is part of what made Halo 2 so great. The hours and hours I spent with my friends exploring the outsides of levels in MP and campaign. Bungie ruined the awesomeness by throwing up death barriers fucking everywhere in Halo 3.
I didn't like the glitches that people exploited in MP (I refused to ever use BXR or double shot), but playing around with them in custom games was epic fun times.
Halo 2 was made so much more fun than it was because of all the glitches it had. If the glitch doesn't compromise the game, and it's fun to do, why take it out?

Even though Halo 2 had all the glitches, I think the best Halo glitch was found in the Halo 3 Beta: the Valhalla space glitch. Nothing beats driving a Banshee into space and then falling for like 45 seconds. It was so epic.

Why did you have to take it out, Bungie? :(
 
Dax01 said:
Why did you have to take it out, Bungie? :(
Because it "glitch doesn't compromise the game, and it's fun to do, why take it out," allowed players to break a map with ease.

For Valhalla, I don't know why they wouldn't let players on the snow drifts and large rocks. You would slowly slide off unless you were in perfect position. Halo 2 maps such as Waterworks, Coagulation, and Headlong did this wonderfully and it didn't break the game.
 
Dax01 said:
Halo 2 was made so much more fun than it was because of all the glitches it had. If the glitch doesn't compromise the game, and it's fun to do, why take it out?

Even though Halo 2 had all the glitches, I think the best Halo glitch was found in the Halo 3 Beta: the Valhalla space glitch. Nothing beats driving a Banshee into space and then falling for like 45 seconds. It was so epic.

Why did you have to take it out, Bungie? :(

Oh god, I did this once I found out about it, but it was the last day, but it was also the last thing I did. It was amazing.
 
Striker said:
For Valhalla, I don't know why they wouldn't let players on the snow drifts and large rocks. You would slowly slide off unless you were in perfect position. Halo 2 maps such as Waterworks, Coagulation, and Headlong did this wonderfully and it didn't break the game.
Sniping in Halo 2 was such a joy because you could constantly be searching for better sniping positions by doing a ton of crazy jumps. You could get almost anywhere in Waterworks and it was glorious. If you tried hard enough you could master a bunch of jumps on a lot of the maps to get to awesome sniping spots (I'm looking at you Zanzibar and Ivory Tower). There is no more rock jumping in Halo 3. :(
 
Triggers Down takes it. Championship Sunday was pretty fucking intense all around. I'm disappointed to see Carbon dropped out 3rd place but Elamite and Str8 Rippin were kicking ass. That game 10 in the final series (Slayer Construct) was fucking insane. I can't believe T2 got that double to win it. It must have drained them though because they got slaughtered in the final match.
 
Got around to starting my solo Legendary run tonight; played Tayari and Alpha Site. Now that I've played the game through once, Legendary feels like the perfect difficulty. Damn hunters on Tayari were hard (I just ran after I killed the first and the second took 2 plasmas and 2 fire nades :P) and Alpha Site was really fun. The "2 and a half firefight maps" structure made it so I could figure out what to do fine and do it, but I had to take some chances along the way. And stupid Mickey doesn't want to do anything. We're up the elevator and he just stands there, leaving me to get naded. It was awesome because I got it down to 2 jetpack brutes and the hammer chieftan when mick decided to help. He grabbed one jetpack dude while I grabbed the other, but my foe lowered my already low health to a sliver of red. The chieftan rushed mickey, swung, and launched him straight off the edge. I could see his waypoint go down, and down, and down. Now the ape is chasing me, and I'm dodging in and out of boxes and firing PP shots at him when I end up back on the center platform. Mickey spawns in front of me, right where the brute is charging, and pours shots into him with me to take him out. So satisfying.
I would probably get owned on H2 legendary. And CE legendary. Never did do H3 solo legendary; maybe I will soon.
 
big ander said:
story about ONI Alpha Site on Legendary

:lol :lol

I had a similar situation on my Legendary run through on Alpha Site. The Police Officers had already died, and it was just me and Mickey with the Brutes that got dropped off by the Phantoms behind us. After wasting my Pistol ammo, most Plasma Pistols, and my SMG, I was down to just a Needler. Had to go around the rocket/memorial pillar and had to systematically take down each Jetpack Brute with the Needler, and somehow managed to take down the Chieftain(think it was a War/Turret Chieftain) with the Pistol and a few Needler shots. :lol
 
Tashi0106 said:
Triggers Down takes it. Championship Sunday was pretty fucking intense all around. I'm disappointed to see Carbon dropped out 3rd place but Elamite and Str8 Rippin were kicking ass. That game 10 in the final series (Slayer Construct) was fucking insane. I can't believe T2 got that double to win it. It must have drained them though because they got slaughtered in the final match.
That was incredible. Probably the best series I've ever watched.
 
Stormtrooper30 said:
Sniping in Halo 2 was such a joy because you could constantly be searching for better sniping positions by doing a ton of crazy jumps. You could get almost anywhere in Waterworks and it was glorious. If you tried hard enough you could master a bunch of jumps on a lot of the maps to get to awesome sniping spots (I'm looking at you Zanzibar and Ivory Tower). There is no more rock jumping in Halo 3. :(
Remember the Sniper perch/rock in Coagulation? You could get up there in an actual game with a Ghost or Banshee, but it never broke the game.

I missed things like that.
 
Sai-kun said:
Happy fifth birthday, Halo 2 :D ilu! Oh gosh :3

holy shit you're right. Wow 5 years ago. I remember like yesterday play H1 on Longest and Prisoner right up to the midnight launch. I got Xbl about 2 weeks later. I still have the Gamestop booklet that like came with the pre-order. Also, special edition was only 5$ more. Times have changed lol.
 
Five years already. I remember playing on Coag and then Swords on Midship at a friend's party just after he'd gotten it. I moved to France three weeks after that, and three weeks later had my own Xbox with Halo and Halo 2 :D
but no more friends to LAN with
 
Striker said:
Because it "glitch doesn't compromise the game, and it's fun to do, why take it out," allowed players to break a map with ease.
The one who breaks out couldn't do anything to help out his team if I recall correctly. Besides, it's one of those glitches that would be done in customs than regular matchmaking... once enough people have tried it.
 
Grimm Fandango said:
You can totally run past the hunters in Tayari. When you get to the area with the escape pod, the doors close behind you. Sorry Hunters, not this time :P
Hah yeah definitely the best option on legendary
for cowards :P
.

Trasher said:
Haha, this was the random message I got when visiting Bungie.net today:
Choppers on Lost Platoon Don't Count!
:lol I've seen a bunch of great ones lately.
 
big ander said:
Legendary run
If you ever try it again, leave the last rocket and hand it off to Mickey once you get inside the ONI building. It makes things incredibly easier.

Wow, 5 years of Halo 2. I think this calls for a celebratory campaign run. Never did try Legendary, and if took Juices a while, I have no chance. Heroic it is! :D

Oh yeah, I posted this in the Waypoint discussion thread, but I'll say it again here. If you have games you want saved, save them before watching Waypoint. It'll erase all your recents just like if you switched to another game.
 
xxjuicesxx said:
Honestly if Halo 3 didn't come out and ruin H2's population I think I would still be playing H2 and not even be bored of it.

Hey, up for some Co-Op on ODST? My roomates suck and I have an itch to pick up Halo again.
 
xxjuicesxx said:
Honestly if Halo 3 didn't come out and ruin H2's population I think I would still be playing H2 and not even be bored of it.

Why is it that I can pop in and find a game of Halo 2 with relative ease then?

EDIT: Well, Not really trying to start a fire but the last time I played Halo 2, I could find a match in Team Slayer within reasonable time. Even Gears of War 2 couldn't do this at launch.

EDIT2: Well actually that was BTB but you get the idea.
 
Dani said:
Halo 2 and 3 on Xbox/360 don't use servers in the traditional sense.

As long as there is players, you'll find a game.

This is why I'm happy that XBL relies more on P2P than dedicated servers.
 
LunaticPuma said:
This is why I'm happy that XBL relies more on P2P than dedicated servers.

Agreed. In three years time, I'll still have the option of hopping on Halo 3 (maybe still 2) and check my stats and Bungie.net (I expect that to be still up too!). That is magical.
 
Matchmaking requires servers to find other people, it doesn't just magically find and connect with people across the world. So they could shut it down.
 
Some random, semi-final thoughts on ODST. I've had a hard time summing up how I feel about the game. I'm tempted to say that I'm of two minds on it, but really, I'm of three.

tl;dr version at the bottom.

First, the story telling is the best in the the series. This is not to say the story is the best - Halo 2 has that title - but the clarity with which its told and the tools Bungie uses to tell it are suburb. They took a simple story and told it in a complicated way, and made it work. In Halo 3, they told a simple story in a simple way and it still didn't work. So when I read that the story would be 1) non-linear; 2) told from multiple perspectives; and 3) have a side-story element tie into it, my confidence was incredibly low that it would end up coherent.

But it works. The side story was perfectly integrated into the narrative, with a payoff in gameplay (the weapon depots) and story (intersecting into the final level, fleshing out the role of the Engineers). In particular: the way the audio logs are always found in sequential order; the quality of the acting, art and writing; the way the log locations are integrated into the environment (car alarms, etc) were just great touches.

The story of the ODSTs was nothing spectacular, but it was well told, and that has me very excited for what Bungie might do with a more ambitious tale in Reach.

Second, the combat is the best in the series. The weapon feedback, scaled back abilities of the ODSTs and tweaked AI made for incredibly satisfying encounters. When the missions are good (more on that in a sec), the game plays as good as any I've ever played. I won't belabor this one - they tuned the weapon sandbox beautifully. I know there's disagreement on this one. But I loved it.

One caveat: ODST plays like two different games. On foot, it's ODST. When you climb into a vehicle, you're back to Halo 3. And since large sections of the game are vehicle-focused, that means a lot of the game feels and plays *exactly* like Halo 3. It's a blessing and a curse: I loved the tweaked feel of the ODSts, so regressing back to something straight out of the previous game is a bit jarring. The problem - in so far as there is one - is that the vehicle play in Halo 3 was pretty much perfect. So I'm not sure what Bungie could do to change it. But I hope they figure something out with Reach, because I don't want the vehicles to feel exactly the same three games in a row.

So far, so good. And had the missions been as good as Halo 3's, I'd have had unequivocal praise for the game. But they're not.

The mission and encounter designs in ODST are a very uneven.

The night time hub world in New Mombasa works as intended: an atmospheric environment to have a handful of emergent Covenant encounters between flashback missions. I've read some disappointment that it wasn't Grand Theft Halo, but that was never in the cards. It does what it sets out to do, and does it fairly well (except for the layout, which bears no resemblance to anything humans would actually build, but more on that another time).

The flashback missions, and the ending sequence, are what I have issues with.

The first mission - Tayari Plaza - gets the game off to a perfect start. The blue haze drifting through the air is gorgeous and gives the mission a slightly surreal, post-apocalyptic shock feel. The music is driving yet slightly ethereal and restrained. And every encounter is pitch-perfect, from hide and seek initial firefight to the open courtyard punctuated by an epic encounter with Hunters. It is, IMO, one of the strongest pure infantry missions in the series.

Things go downhill from there.

There are missions in ODST that I never want to play again; I can't say that for any other game in the series. Oni Alpha Site, Kizingo Blvd, and everything after finding the Super are just plain bad.

One of the things I love about Halo 3 is how it sets up an entire encounter, and lets you tackle it with a wide array of tools and approaches. Halo 3 was filled with huge emergent encounters: the big dam at the end of the first mission; the vehicle encounters on The Ark; even the hallway battles in Crow's Nest were all set up so that you could scout the encounter and plan accordingly.

Very few missions involve the old standby of waves of reinforcements being dropped off, or monster closets bursting with timed batched of enemies pouring out.

ODST, I suspect because of the small development team and a lack of resources to stretch out the environments, basically relies on these artificial mechanisms through much of the game. It feels like a huge step backward from Halo 3.

Oni Alpha Site is a good example: you get to the top of the site exterior, and the doors are locked. You then play three waves of Firefight before the doors unlock. Once inside, you play five waves of Firefight, and then the elevator comes. Worse, even the setup makes no sense: anyone who's played the Oni Alpha Site map knows that the center floor is the killzone. You pull back and let the Covenant flood into the cross fire. But on the campaign mission, Bungie decided to set up the Marines - and their weapons - right in the middle of the crossfire. This makes no sense. And the two monster closest that open breaks any feeling that I'm playing a decent campaign mission. I think that's what Paul Beretone referred to as "maximizing the space" - making you play for a long time in the same area - but I never found it interesting or fun.

The same applies to Kizingo Blvd. - blow stuff up in the tank for a few minutes, then play four waves of Firefight - and to several other areas of the game.

And then there's the ending. I was initially cold on Data Hive, because it's hyper-repetitive hallways and emphasis on Buggers are two things I don't enjoy. But on my second romp through, I found it feeling a bit like the mindless fun of The Library in Halo 1 (yes, that's a slightly backhanded compliment). It's not a great mission, but it's a decent time romping through.

From finding the Super on, the rest of the game is bad. Not good. Very, very bad.

Whose idea was it to have a protracted escort mission be the climax to the game? And have the ending trench run broken up into what feels like a dozen small pieces, while we wait for a garbage truck to catch up? Or have the climax of the game be a very leisurely round of Firefight, right down to taking out three successive Phantom drops of gradually more difficult enemies? This was easily the most anti-climactic ending to a Halo game so far. The pacing was off, but so was the entire core concept.

I could go on about it - such as how Buck's AI on the back of the Warthog is idiotic - but I want to make one comparison to sum it up. The ending battle reminded me a bit of the mansion shootout in the first Gears of War. I'm holed up in a building, the enemy is massing out front, I need to defend it before I can get out of there. In Gears, there was a gradual shift in the combat as sniping the approaching enemy gave way to fighting the invaders down stairs, which gave way to a cat and mouse shootout throughout the mansion as the place was overrun. I thought the Gears campaign was just okay, but that remains one brilliant set piece. It could have been a compelling finish to ODST.

Instead, there's one Phantom that drops off a wave of weak enemies. When those are killed, a second Phantom drops off a batch of slightly more powerful enemies. And when those are killed - wait for it - a third Phantom drops off a wave a even more powerful enemies! (While some Wraiths some from nowhere for some climactic shelling - from behind a protective barrier, natch.)

This is not the kind of encounter design I've come to expect from Bungie. I'm assuming - hoping? - that this was a time issue. But regardless, it's just incredibly lazy game design, and is a transparent attempt to stretch limited assets into a longer encounter.

And that's my main issue with a lot of the game. The combat is pretty much perfect, but the quality of the encounters is just not up to snuff. Most of that has to do with Bungie wanting the game to be longer, so they lock the player into a room - over and over and over - to fight waves of enemies before you can progress. It happens in numerous missions, numerous times. It happens throughout the climax, including the trench run. I think the game would be a lot stronger if Bungie had resigned themselves to constructing encounters of higher quality, rather than using monster closets. It would mean a shorter game, but one that wasn't straining to find artificial ways to make the game longer.

Again, look back to that first flashback mission (Tayari Plaza), that sets up one interesting encounter after another, lets you tackle it in a number of ways, and then you move on. It's not a long mission, but every fight is perfect. I wish the rest of the game took that approach.

Christ that was an epic rant.


tl;dr version: great storytelling and combat, substandard level and mission designs mixed with a few standouts. I hope - and assume - that was because of time constraints and does not point to the direction Reach is moving in.
 
user_nat said:
Matchmaking requires servers to find other people, it doesn't just magically find and connect with people across the world. So they could shut it down.

Yep, like I said, not in a traditional sense. Regular server hosted games have huge bandwidth and computing requirements and are very expensive to maintain. The P2P model costs a fraction of the traditional model and it's the reason why a game like Halo 2 can still be up and running.

The older and less popular a game gets, the less reason to spent money on it. If Halo 2 was on a traditional server system, you'd probably not be able to play it now.
 
LunaticPuma said:
Can't check at work. Thanks for the info.

I don't consider MLG a normal team playlist.

Shishka fails again.

I guess it's time to play MLG then lol

To me, the MLG playlist has the best rotation of maps and gametypes for 4v4 or 3v3 Halo 3 matchmaking has to offer...11 gametypes

Construct Slayer
Construct King
Pit Slayer
Pit Flag
Midship Slayer
Midship Flag
Midship Ball
Amplified Slayer (Foundry)
Onslaught Flag (Foundry)
Narrows Flag
Narrows Slayer

I never go into the MLG playlist praying that I don't get a certain map or gametype yet I do that with every other playlist. I'm cool with whatever comes up. Everyone should give MLG a shot. You might enjoy the faster pace. However I don't recommend going in alone, it can be bad.
 
Merguson said:
Why is it that I can pop in and find a game of Halo 2 with relative ease then?

EDIT: Well, Not really trying to start a fire but the last time I played Halo 2, I could find a match in Team Slayer within reasonable time. Even Gears of War 2 couldn't do this at launch.

EDIT2: Well actually that was BTB but you get the idea.

Found SWAT matches in Halo 2 quickly, and going in solo in Big Team(which I quit out of due to Containment and the other team camping the base with their fucking tank!) was quicker than what I remember going into Halo 3's big team with a full team/party.

Wonder if when Reach comes, that I'll be able to find a quick match in Halo 3. :lol
 
Dani said:
Yep, like I said, not in a traditional sense. Regular server hosted games have huge bandwidth and computing requirements and are very expensive to maintain. The P2P model costs a fraction of the traditional model and it's the reason why a game like Halo 2 can still be up and running.

The older and less popular a game gets, the less reason to spent money on it. If Halo 2 was on a traditional server system, you'd probably not be able to play it now.

There are lots of old games that are still running that use traditional servers. Halo 2 is still around for a reason, but it's not P2P.
 
Tashi0106 said:
I guess it's time to play MLG then lol

To me, the MLG playlist has the best rotation of maps and gametypes for 4v4 or 3v3 Halo 3 matchmaking has to offer...11 gametypes

Construct Slayer
Construct King
Pit Slayer
Pit Flag
Midship Slayer
Midship Flag
Midship Ball
Amplified Slayer (Foundry)
Onslaught Flag (Foundry)
Narrows Flag
Narrows Slayer

I never go into the MLG playlist praying that I don't get a certain map or gametype yet I do that with every other playlist. I'm cool with whatever comes up. Everyone should give MLG a shot. You might enjoy the faster pace. However I don't recommend going in alone, it can be bad.

I do play MLG with some of my friends. My comment was more to the fact that MLG playlist is not managed by Shishka. Team king is fun with the various equipment pieces. I guess I'll just have to hit up customs night to play it.

I love Team Throwback. I think it's my new favorite playlist.
 
Merguson said:
Why is it that I can pop in and find a game of Halo 2 with relative ease then?

EDIT: Well, Not really trying to start a fire but the last time I played Halo 2, I could find a match in Team Slayer within reasonable time. Even Gears of War 2 couldn't do this at launch.

EDIT2: Well actually that was BTB but you get the idea.

You can't first off even on Xbox. Especially in the good playlists like Team Hardcore. Even if you can at higher levels you are playing the same kids over and over. Hell I remember back in the day pushing Team Doubles and getting a match within 4 seconds sometimes. Not to mention you picked the most populated playlist on H2 so you probably would have some relatively speedy matchups at lower ranks but get over to 30s and 40s and I'm sure you'll be waiting 45 minutes - 2 hours to find a match.

If I recall GoW2 issues were game based in the beginning and was patched relatively fast...Had nothing to do with population. So thats not really relevant.

I was more referring to H2Vista because I'm playing that atm, theres like 40 active servers at a time and only a few are filled more than half way. Its sad really because its so easy to pick up at any time and just play some old Halo yet no one really does. Its a great game, and the MP is not as broken as you would imagine. Hell I played an awesome custom map made for SWAT and it was pretty cool called Parallax.
 
LunaticPuma said:
I do play MLG with some of my friends. My comment was more to the fact that MLG playlist is not managed by Shishka. Team king is fun with the various equipment pieces. I guess I'll just have to hit up customs night to play it.

I love Team Throwback. I think it's my new favorite playlist.
Yikes. :lol :lol
 
xxjuicesxx said:
All in moderation.

Extreme moderation.

I'm fine with that.


Also, I can't really remember how H2 played much anymore. It's been so long since I played it online and even longer since I played it cheater free.
 
GhaleonEB said:
Second, the combat is the best in the series. The weapon feedback, scaled back abilities of the ODSTs and tweaked AI made for incredibly satisfying encounters. When the missions are good (more on that in a sec), the game plays as good as any I've ever played. I won't belabor this one - they tuned the weapon sandbox beautifully. I know there's disagreement on this one. But I loved it.
Yes, but too bad there's no equipment.

The only level I really didn't like in ODST was Oni Alpha Site, mainly because it's just two Firefight maps.

While the last mission was extremely repetitive, what was happening above the player was something else.
 
GhaleonEB said:
Awesome review/rant everyone should read.
Read the whole thing, and Ghaleon, I have to say I actually really respect you for writing this.

First, I agree with most everything you said here. ODST was sub-par, and my friends list full of Halo fans shows that it was a paltry offering to the series. There were golden nuggets hidden in the game that definitely were worthwhile (engineers ftw), but it lacked the superb quality of Halo 3/2/CE, and even Wars.

The reason I say I respect you for this review though is because you aren't a "yes man" despite being thanked in the credits. Bungie doesn't poop gold nuggets, and they have to work for their Halloween candy - especially from the hardcore.
 
xxjuicesxx said:
You can't first off even on Xbox. Especially in the good playlists like Team Hardcore. Even if you can at higher levels you are playing the same kids over and over. Hell I remember back in the day pushing Team Doubles and getting a match within 4 seconds sometimes. Not to mention you picked the most populated playlist on H2 so you probably would have some relatively speedy matchups at lower ranks but get over to 30s and 40s and I'm sure you'll be waiting 45 minutes - 2 hours to find a match.

If I recall GoW2 issues were game based in the beginning and was patched relatively fast...Had nothing to do with population. So thats not really relevant.

I was more referring to H2Vista because I'm playing that atm, theres like 40 active servers at a time and only a few are filled more than half way. Its sad really because its so easy to pick up at any time and just play some old Halo yet no one really does. Its a great game, and the MP is not as broken as you would imagine. Hell I played an awesome custom map made for SWAT and it was pretty cool called Parallax.

I've never played Halo 2 Vista so I wouldn't know what the matchmaking is like. Why does Halo 2 need Vista anyways?

Gears of War 2 was due to Epic's plane of thought that they could get away with a couple of servers for Gears of War 2 matchmaking when they very well knew that the game would require a lot of servers for matchmaking. I don't give a crap about Gears of War though, after Title Update Number Five, the game still has problems online.
 
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