Support NeoGAF

[Sibylus]

Since Gephyrophobia has a a lot of simple geometry and a symmetrical layout, I'm hoping I'll be able to pull something together without reaching the max item count.

I wish I had the maps :<

 

[Azar]

In my opinion, your biggest problem isn't even the volume of objects or size or any of that. Your biggest issue with a Relic remake would be the palette set. One of the key components of Relic was the natural geometry, the vast sea around it and things like the switch to activate the teleporter, which are criticial to the map's functionality, are just not doable in Forge. Even if you could get a map to look vaguely similar to Relic, it would almost be a certainty that it would not play like it.

Recommendation: I think that unless people are looking to remake maps like Lockout, Sanctuary and Turf, which could be built reasonably well with Forge and Sandbox, they should instead take a map like Relic, Gemini or whatever and make a list of the things about the map they thought worked -- the memorable elements of the map. Then, design a map around those conventions specifically tailored to Sandbox's palette.

I agree that the natural geometry was important and would be difficult to replicate. You certainly couldn't make a perfect version of Relic, but I think using some walls and ramps and such you could duplicate the sightlines, which would probably work well enough to emulate the experience.

The teleporter is a bit more tricky. But what if the map spawned with, say, a bunch of fusion coils piled together, blocking the appropriate end of the portal. Blow those up, and it becomes usable.

As for the sea, the danger it represented isn't that different than the risk of the defensive towers blowing you to smithereens. Obviously, the distance it takes to reach that kill point could really change how you played around the edges of the map. I haven't actually gotten to play Sandbox, so it's hard for me to say.

 

[Sibylus]

Just recently got myself an Xbox360 (which completes my collections of all the the current gen consoles + handhelds) and obvious first game was Halo 3.

I only played the multiplayer for Halo: CE, the first mission or two on Halo 2 so this is the first time I'm going through the campaign for the Halo games. They're nice and epic but I hate the horrible level designs. I'm always getting lost and the Flood levels are the absolute worst. Ugh. I just finished the Cortana level and I feel like I've defeated the world. Jesus that was torture. Were there any other mind numbing levels in the previous games? I was thinking about picking them up for storyline sake but not sure if I wanna grind through confusing corridor after corridor.

Other than that, multiplayer is fun as hell, though I wish I could participate in social big game or w/e that's called. 5 v 5 got boring after a while, and I don't wanna pay for the new maps :/

Halo 1 has The Library, which is quite possibly one of the worst levels ever created for an FPS campaign. Once you've seen the hall, elevator and tunnel, you've seen all the level has to offer. But you'll go through rooms that look identical to the last ones about 3 or 4 times.

There's better levels after it, though. You should give 1 a whirl at any rate.

 

[Falagard]

Recommendation: I think that unless people are looking to remake maps like Lockout, Sanctuary and Turf, which could be built reasonably well with Forge and Sandbox, they should instead take a map like Relic, Gemini or whatever and make a list of the things about the map they thought worked -- the memorable elements of the map. Then, design a map around those conventions specifically tailored to Sandbox's palette.

Usually when I think of "remake" in Sandbox, that's what I assume - that people will not be able to recreate exact geometry but instead the general flow and idea of the original map.

The general idea of Relic is that it's a great objective map for one bomb assault and one flag CTF. You've got the defenders's base, which is quite a tall structure and has the flag or the bomb plant location. The base has X number of places where the offensive team can attempt to make it into the base, with a couple ramps at the back where you can drive a warthog right up the structure.

The offensive team's starting location has some terrain that provides cover, so if you're trying to get the flag back to your base to score you can get behind that cover as you're escorting the flag back. Whether that cover is terrain or some stone structures I don't think it really makes too much of a difference.

Then you've got the sniper perch, some scattered cover in various locations, etc. The teleporter might not be doable - it was a switch in Relic, correct? The offensive team could sneak into the base and activate the teleporter - I don't think that'll be possible in Forge will it?

Regardless, I think the idea of Relic can be remade in Sandbox. A geometry perfect remake is pretty much impossible for ANY remake in Sandbox, so generally I always figure that a remake is just the general layout and flow of a map.

 

[sixthsubset]

I could imagine that someone would be able to make a teleporter-switch... I've seen working gates and little machines on Foundry maps from Forgehub. I wouldn't be able to do it myself, tho

I'd just like to see floating BTB maps in the style of Lockout and Guardian.. make four Lockout-like sections with ramps and bridges and towers and than stitch them together.

 

[The Librarian]

They're nice and epic but I hate the horrible level designs. I'm always getting lost and the Flood levels are the absolute worst. Ugh. I just finished the Cortana level and I feel like I've defeated the world. Jesus that was torture.

Don't understand how you are getting lost besides Cortana. The levels are fairly linear, and there is always a structure that is recognizable.

http://i38.tinypic.com/2vvmg3p.gif

Voc, you'll have to show me the bottom of Gemini sometime. I've never been down there.[/QUOTE]
I can accompany you two.

[QUOTE=Botolf]Halo 1 has The Library, [B]which is quite possibly one of the worst levels ever created for an FPS campaign.[/B] Once you've seen the hall, elevator and tunnel, you've seen all the level has to offer. But you'll go through rooms that look identical to the last ones about 3 or 4 times.

There's better levels after it, though. You should give 1 a whirl at any rate.[/QUOTE]
Judging from [url=http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=14157695&postcount=80968]this[/url] list, you are incorrect. Library was a fairly good level.

Edit: Luke or Urk: is it reasonable to assume that we can expect the winners of the ODST picture contest tomorrow?

 

[Captain Blood]

Judging from this list, you are incorrect. Library was a fairly good level.

Edit: Luke or Urk: is it reasonable to assume that we can expect the winners of the ODST picture contest tomorrow?

So you are quoting a list you made to back up a point you are now trying to make? lol

I give your tactics a 4.6768

 

[Trasher]

Lintendo, I love the map. Good work, sir.

 

[The Librarian]

So you are quoting a list you made to back up a point you are now trying to make? lol

That's the joke.
:/

 

[KevinRo]

I hope you nerds have been experiencing with a multiple leveled map in the skybubble with different gravity pulls. If not then you all fail at life aka halo.

 

[Merguson]

Lintendo, I love the map. Good work, sir.

If you are talking about SkyPerch... pretty good map... but I kept falling off....

 

[victreeb3l]

The main reason I get lost is that after I accomplish something, the game just expects me to know what to do next. Like that one level where you had to deactivate the forcefield and it tells you to go to the next one. How am I supposed to know where to go?

I got lost a couple of times like that but it's a minor annoyance. It's hella cool seeing the scarabs blow up though, hehe.

 

[Sibylus]

Judging from this list, you are incorrect. Library was a fairly good level.

The Library was not "a fairly good level". It's maligned for a reason.

Simply put, if Bungie had released a game where all the levels followed the same design principles as The Library, Halo CE would have been a nasty little blip in Bungie's history, something to be embarrassed about instead of proud.

Stacking the same floor on itself several times and calling it a level isn't good design, it's shoddy reuse of assets and it messes up any gameplay potential the map might have had. It drags on too long, has nothing fresh to show after five minutes, and the combat hits the same note during the entire thing. The best part of the level is that point where you know it's over.

From a design standpoint, Cortana is everything The Library was not (Good encounter design, lots of new areas, etc, etc). I may think 343 Guilty Spark is the best Flood level Bungie's created, but Cortana definitely is a step up from The Library.

 

[Hypertrooper]

Anyone know what happen with Bungie Tube?

 

[Kibbles]

Mythic Map Pack codes are out for those who won in the ODST Screenshot contest.

http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=news&cid=17626

Private messages have now been sent to the winners of the Mythic Map Pack screenshot contest. We want to thank everyone who participated. In the end, you generated thousands of awesome screenshots and it was super difficult to make the final call. If you're not fortunate enough to find a shiny code in your inbox, we hope, at the very least, you had a blast rolling with your ODST squad through campaign. We had a blast pouring through the pile of screenshots you dropped.

On a side note: Does anyone know a program where I can render a h.264 file properly? Sony Vegas resizes my videos to 640x368 for some odd reason :S

 

[Grimm Fandango]

Big Turf remake update with comparision shots incoming. Map is still about half way done so many walls, ceilings, arches, and cover are still missing.


This area is a bit dark so I may need to add one of those glowing orbs to light it up.
The arch is also needed for the third set of pics.

This is actually the first time I noticed this little window area. Honestly I never saw it before but I still added it in.
The building to the right of the window still needs to be built.
I might swap out the slit window for a half wall to give more space.

Still needs the outer wall, arch, and overhang over the left corner.
Don't know why I included this pic but meh.

One of the new features I added. Couldn't exactly get the walkway so I put two opposing ramps.
What makes it interesting is that a sniper can jump off the ramps...

... and get to this sniping perch.

Wall still needed connecting the ramps to the exit.

Hope you all are liking what you see so far

 

[Captain Blood]

That's the joke.
:/

According to this your joke was just below par. ;p

 

[The Librarian]

The main reason I get lost is that after I accomplish something, the game just expects me to know what to do next. Like that one level where you had to deactivate the forcefield and it tells you to go to the next one. How am I supposed to know where to go?

When you're in that room, there is nowhere else to go but down.

Simply put, if Bungie

But they didn't, so it doesn't matter.

Stacking the same floor on itself several times and calling it a level isn't good design, it's shoddy reuse of assets and it messes up any gameplay potential the map might have had.

Didn't really bother me, I had fun with the gameplay, and the level of tension to get to the next floor can't be matched by the rest of the game.

It drags on too long,

It could have been shorter, but I thought it was fine the way it was.

has nothing fresh to show after five minutes,

That's not entirely true, but it is basically the same throughout the entire level.

According to this your joke was just below par. ;p

Bastard. Beating me at my own game!

Mythic Map Pack codes are out for those who won in the ODST Screenshot contest.

http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=news&cid=17626

Wish we could have seen the screenshots that won.

 

[KevinRo]

Why don't you flip one of the triangles and interlock them on to a different plane than the sniper plane....

 

[sixthsubset]

I'm liking what I see of Turf, but that ramp business just doesn't look like it works. Have you tried interlocking a wall into it?

 

[Trasher]

If you are talking about SkyPerch... pretty good map... but I kept falling off....

Haha, I think we all were. :lol

 

[Insaniac]

If you are talking about SkyPerch... pretty good map... but I kept falling off....

coddled by too many non-fall off maps

 

[KevinRo]

ughh watching you guys design maps is as enjoyable as watching 2 retards have sex.

 

[Grimm Fandango]

Why don't you flip one of the triangles and interlock them on to a different plane than the sniper plane....

Not sure what you're trying to say. Flip one of the ramps or put them side by side facing the same direction?

I'm liking what I see of Turf, but that ramp business just doesn't look like it works. Have you tried interlocking a wall into it?

That was the original plan. Sadly walls are too thick to run on from a flat surface. So you would need to jump onto the wall segment everytime which would break up the combat too much IMO.

If I can find a thin object capable of walking across (maybe the little ramps), I'll try it.

 

[vhfive]

I knew i could count on you to get the reference

 

[Kibbles]

Orbital Walkthrough - The recording process of this video was a little rushed, but I hope it's good enough. The black bars is the result of Sony vegas forcing the file to be 640x368 instead of 640x360. These h.264 files are the only ones that work 100% of the time for me on YouTube, but I really need a program that doesn't force a file-size change. If anyone could show me the path to a better program that'd be great >.< I also have a video showing off all the items you can use in Sandbox in the skybubble, which was also a bit rushed. I'll be uploading it soon, but I wouldn't expect it on YouTube for another hour or so. Once we get some games going I'd like to put up some gameplay videos.

 

[The Librarian]

Orbital Walkthrough - The recording process of this video was a little rushed, but I hope it's good enough. The black bars is the result of Sony vegas forcing the file to be 640x368 instead of 640x360. These h.264 files are the only ones that work 100% of the time for me on YouTube, but I really need a program that doesn't force a file-size change. If anyone could show me the path to a better program that'd be great >.< I also have a video showing off all the items you can use in Sandbox in the skybubble, which was also a bit rushed. I'll be uploading it soon, but I wouldn't expect it on YouTube for another hour or so. Once we get some games going I'd like to put up some gameplay videos.

Thanks for that.

For the joystick contest:

You must be 18 years or older and a resident of the US or Canada (excluding Quebec)

 

[Kibbles]

Fuck! YouTube doesn't have the sound working, wtf? >_< Fail.

 

[Insaniac]

Not sure what you're trying to say. Flip one of the ramps or put them side by side facing the same direction?



That was the original plan. Sadly walls are too thick to run on from a flat surface. So you would need to jump onto the wall segment everytime which would break up the combat too much IMO.

If I can find a thin object capable of walking across (maybe the little ramps), I'll try it.

interlock walls into the blocks instead of putting them on top

if u want help i can show u how

 

[Caspel]

If anyone is still interested, one of my colleagues has put up his giveaway for the Halo 3 Mythic Map Pack today. PM me if you are interested in receiving a link to enter.

 

[Tashi]

Fuck! YouTube doesn't have the sound working, wtf? >_< Fail.

the sound works, it just lags a little.

 

[victreeb3l]

When you're in that room, there is nowhere else to go but down.

Yes. And then what? I'm back in the same forest that I just came from. No directions, nothing. I drove around for a few minutes waiting for an arrow or some indication of where the hell I'm supposed to go and just by chance I just managed to drive to that flying vehicle.

I don't want to chance upon the next part of the level. That means something is wrong.

 

[The Librarian]

Yes. And then what? I'm back in the same forest that I just came from. No directions, nothing. I drove around for a few minutes waiting for an arrow or some indication of where the hell I'm supposed to go and just by chance I just managed to drive to that flying vehicle.

Then you go back down. It was pretty straightforward the first time I played it.

 

[CrazedArabMan]

If anyone is still interested, one of my colleagues has put up his giveaway for the Halo 3 Mythic Map Pack today. PM me if you are interested in receiving a link to enter.

I sent off a PM.

 

[Insaniac]

Haha, I think we all were. :lol

do you have a replay of the game? i like to use it to balance my maps

 

[Grimm Fandango]

interlock walls into the blocks instead of putting them on top

if u want help i can show u how

If you can show me in picture form, that'll be great. I don't want to turn on Forge while studying or else I won't stop.

 

[sixthsubset]

I sent off a PM.

I did too

 

[Caspel]

I've put in a good 3 hours into Sandbox and it's so meticulous that it's exhilarating -- if you know what you are doing with Forge that is. I've never been much of a Forge player, but Sandbox encourages gamers to try and be creative at least

 

[fin]

Great job on the Turf remake. Can't wait to play it!

Alright so we have

Insaniac
GrimmFandango
Sai-Kun
Dax


a week from this weekend

I'm in too.

I'll probably take Thursday and Friday off of work next week, but still be setting the alarm. So I'll have lots of time to get a map or two ready.

Good thing SF4 came out, makes the wait way easier.

Anyone getting KZ2 this week?

 

[Macintosh360]

I found the contest for early access to the map pack, over at PlanetXbox360.com; link provided below for those interested:

http://www.planetxbox360.com/article_5843/Weekly_Contest_-_XBLA_Code_for_Halo_3_-_Mythic_Map_Packl

 

[Merguson]

do you have a replay of the game? i like to use it to balance my maps

its on my file share...

well it's uploading but it should be there any minute...

 

[sixthsubset]

I found the contest for early access to the map pack, over at PlanetXbox360.com; link provided below for those interested:

http://forums.planetxbox360.com/gen...halo-3-mythic-map-pack-giveaway-new-post.html

shhhhhhhhhhhhh!

 

[Captain Blood]

Great job on the Turf remake. Can't wait to play it!



I'm in too.

I'll probably take Thursday and Friday off of work next week, but still be setting the alarm. So I'll have lots of time to get a map or two ready.

Good thing SF4 came out, makes the wait way easier.

Anyone getting KZ2 this week?

PM sent.

 

[Insaniac]

Based on the pics I saw in your post, this is what I'd do:

Here you have the ramp, put a double wall on top of the boxes:

Delay respawn the two boxes the wall is resting on:

Use a ramp (ramp,wide is what I used) and carefully align it underneath the double wall. This will keep it even with the double boxes

I used two of the small ramps to make sure there were no cracks, make sure you remove the delayed respawn and delete the double wall:

I used a half-wall to create the window above the ramp:

And here are some comparison pics just to show you:

 

[Grimm Fandango]

That looks fantastic Insaniac! Thank you for that.

 

[The Librarian]

Anyone getting KZ2 this week?

Me.

Edit:

That tension in me quickly gave way to annoyance and sheer boredom.

Maybe for you but not for me. I enjoyed the Library.

 

[Sibylus]

But they didn't, so it doesn't matter.

My point was that The Library is poorly designed, and it's principles would have ruined other levels had they been applied. Contrariwise, good design principles applied to other levels improve the game. A game full of Library-like levels (ie bad design) would have blowed, a game full of Silent Cartographer-like levels (good design) would have rocked.

That's the line of thinking the example was supporting, so take it for what you will.

Didn't really bother me, I had fun with the gameplay, and the level of tension to get to the next floor can't be matched by the rest of the game.

That tension in me quickly gave way to annoyance and sheer boredom.

It could have been shorter, but I thought it was fine the way it was.

Masochist cunfirmed.

Spoiler

Also, rating The Library higher than Truth and Reconciliation most assuredly makes you some kind of robot.

That's not entirely true, but it is basically the same throughout the entire level.

Aside from a handful of rooms, it's the same floor repeated ad nauseam. Point stands.

 

[Slightly Live]

Orbital Walkthrough - The recording process of this video was a little rushed, but I hope it's good enough. The black bars is the result of Sony vegas forcing the file to be 640x368 instead of 640x360. These h.264 files are the only ones that work 100% of the time for me on YouTube, but I really need a program that doesn't force a file-size change. If anyone could show me the path to a better program that'd be great >.< I also have a video showing off all the items you can use in Sandbox in the skybubble, which was also a bit rushed. I'll be uploading it soon, but I wouldn't expect it on YouTube for another hour or so. Once we get some games going I'd like to put up some gameplay videos.

See, this is why you are awesome.

Thank you very much.

 

[Sibylus]

Maybe for you but not for me. I enjoyed the Library.

Domo arigato

 

[Kibbles]

Your welcome. Made this quickly: All Sandbox Scenery Objects