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[mujun]

I am pretty excited for this. The setting looks great, looks sort of like Dishonored, one of my favorite games ever.

Why is there only linear and open world being discussed. Personally, a game like this should be like Mini Ninjas if you ask me, linear but with a whole bunch of level to explore and wander through if you feel like it.

 

[VillageBC]

Is the city explorable, then? Can we investigate its murky alleyways at will? “That’s always the struggle,” Weerasuriya says. “I love to explore the environment so long as it gives you something back. Yes, we’re trying to do some of that, but the reality is that it’s a single-player game that takes you on a ride, and we don’t want to compromise that ride.”

Suddenly my interest in 1886 has increased. I assumed it would be another open world, mp focused game. Something I have zero interest in.

But a properly crafted, single player experience. Yes please, I am in on this new ip!

 

[EventHorizon]

If the above were true most games last generation would have been rentals. Gears of War, Halo, God of War, Uncharted etc. A game can be cinematic and filmic whilst still being brilliant and worth a purchase as well as multiple play throughs.

FTFY

The difference now is that we've been there. Done that. Gamers want something new. I am afraid that that desire for something new has been taken by the devs to mean a film like experience when I believe that gamers want more choice in their gameplay and open environments.

 

[Mr. Waffle]

I'm ok with it flowing like a Naughty Dog game. I've enjoyed all of the PS3 games they made, and completed all of them except Last of Us... I'm getting there, but just not in a hurry. If The Order is done in that style I'll be more than happy to pick it up on release.

 

[kaching]

I don't really see people wanting an open world game. Instead it's just a bunch of people that want some really good level design.

If that's the case, then why are they so concerned if it's linear or not? Much of the best level design this hobby has ever seen has been unashamedly linear. By the very act of using the term level design, rather than world design, you tacitly acknowledge the fundamental presence of linearity and constraint in much of the best game design.

 

[francisnobleman]

I think this game is gonna be a new Beyond Good and Evil.

It's good but looks weird and nobody cares in the end.

 

[Vibranium]

I'm still super excited, I really don't care about it being linear as long as the gameplay is compelling and there is at least a bit of freedom here and there.

Hopefully the gunplay is awesome!

 

[NavyPharaoh]

I'm so sick of MP elitists making their voice known that if a game doesn't have MP they're not interested. Do u guys buy every MP game that comes out? No. So what's wit the game shitting?

Does it make sense for a mainly SP person to go to every cod & bf4 thread & ask for SP details constantly? No EVERYTHING ISN'T FOR EVERYONE! !!!

I only see MP elitists & open world only ppl in threads bitchin bout how the game aint for them... but it SHOULD be made for them. Can some of u stop this shit?

 

[NavyPharaoh]

The linear game bashing in this thread makes me SMH. Linear games have, and will continue to be great. Of course they can be derivative and terrible as well, there are extremes with every kind of game design.

It's funny, the more checklist nonsense, bad narratives, janky mechanics, boring collectables, boring missions, boring side activities, and lack of cohesion we get with the increased number of open world titles, the MORE people clamor for those open world titles. I'm not going to criticize The Order for being "too linear" before we've even seen any real gameplay footage.

Amen.

 

[Aureon]

Is there lock-on aiming
I want lock-on aiming.

 

[Broank]

What other Sony studio has used it? I've only seen it used by RAD talking about this game which apparently borrows a lot from films when it comes to the visual style they're aiming for.

I just remember the first time I had ever heard the term was when Ted Price and the Killzone guys were using it a lot when Resistance 2 and Killzone 2 were coming out.

 

[Creaking]

Is there lock-on aiming
I want lock-on aiming.

 

[Jac_Solar]

I agree to this. I prefer a more dedicated enclosed experience like the Last of Us. Making a game open world just for the sake of it sacrifices so much of this.

What games are open world just for the sake of it?

The reason why some may want a more open environment is because they want more freedom in their games, as opposed to being forced along a straight line because the developers wanted total control over how you experienced their story.

More freedom automatically incentivizes a focus on mechanics and content, as opposed to the focus on story that linearity seemingly tends to incentivize, what setpieces to funnel the player through, the amount of mobs to place between the player and the next cutscene trigger - instead of, basically, controlling the player, they have to establish rules the player has to abide by. Linear games are essentially 1 dimensional, games like Castlevania, Metroid, Shadow Complex and Darksiders are 2 dimensional, while open world games like GTA, Elder Scrolls are 3 dimensional.

 

[RoboPlato]

What games are open world just for the sake of it?

The reason why some may want a more open environment is because they want more freedom in their games, as opposed to being forced along a straight line because the developers wanted total control over how you experienced their story.

More freedom automatically incentivizes a focus on mechanics and content, as opposed to the focus on story that linearity seemingly tends to incentivize, what setpieces to funnel the player through, the amount of mobs to place between the player and the next cutscene trigger - instead of, basically, controlling the player, they have to establish rules the player has to abide by. Linear games are essentially 1 dimensional, games like Castlevania, Metroid, Shadow Complex and Darksiders are 2 dimensional, while open world games like GTA, Elder Scrolls are 3 dimensional.

I could not disagree more. Open world games are just becoming bigger and more vapid copy/paste asset design filled with useless collectables and stupid side quests. I enjoy open world games but they never feel anywhere near as polished or as engrossing as a good, focused, tightly designed linear title.

 

[meta4]

What games are open world just for the sake of it?

The reason why some may want a more open environment is because they want more freedom in their games, as opposed to being forced along a straight line because the developers wanted total control over how you experienced their story.

More freedom automatically incentivizes a focus on mechanics and content, as opposed to the focus on story that linearity seemingly tends to incentivize, what setpieces to funnel the player through, the amount of mobs to place between the player and the next cutscene trigger - instead of, basically, controlling the player, they have to establish rules the player has to abide by. Linear games are essentially 1 dimensional, games like Castlevania, Metroid, Shadow Complex and Darksiders are 2 dimensional, while open world games like GTA, Elder Scrolls are 3 dimensional.

More freedom more often than not sacrifices engaging level design, enemy encounters, competent mechanics etc.. for the sake of variety. See GTA5 and its horrible core shooting mechanics vs a linear game like Vanquish which had exceptional shooting. I dont want a zillion things to do in the game if those zillion things are not made with quality. Open world games are usually extremely shallow. It is just space and nothing else.

 

[MrCookiepants]

The linear game bashing in this thread makes me SMH. Linear games have, and will continue to be great. Of course they can be derivative and terrible as well, there are extremes with every kind of game design.

It's funny, the more checklist nonsense, bad narratives, janky mechanics, boring collectables, boring missions, boring side activities, and lack of cohesion we get with the increased number of open world titles, the MORE people clamor for those open world titles. I'm not going to criticize The Order for being "too linear" before we've even seen any real gameplay footage.

At least we have one sane person here.

 

[Moon_frogger]

Explorable alleys??? That's sounds about as legit as cod's advanced fish ai.

 

[VindicatorZ]

God damn I don't think anybody wants or expected The Order to be an open world game. All we want is some exploration, NPC and environment interaction and not just waves of enemies in corridors.

 

[Horp]

Thats what people believe. By slapping open world it fixes all of gamings problems

Many games really, really try hard to give the player the feeling that he/she is in its world. The graphics have become more and more realistic, heightening this experience. The sound has become better and better. Our TV screens are bigger and bigger. Characters speak instead of communicate via text.

But there's two things that really break the immersion; the feeling of being in another world. Heavily restricted exploration and bad AI. You use the term "being open world", but seriously, what world _isn't_ open? If we want to give the players a feeling of another world, what kind of strange world are we trying to show that is restricted to some corridors and backdrops?

 

[MrCookiepants]

Many games really, really try hard to give the player the feeling that he/she is in its world. The graphics have become more and more realistic, heightening this experience. The sound has become better and better. Our TV screens are bigger and bigger. Characters speak instead of communicate via text.

But there's two things that really break the immersion; the feeling of being in another world. Heavily restricted exploration and bad AI. You use the term "being open world", but seriously, what world _isn't_ open? If we want to give the players a feeling of another world, what kind of strange world are we trying to show that is restricted to some corridors and backdrops?

No stranger or more immersion breaking than a world with hundreds of buildings that can't be entered. Or a world filled with people who all look the same and say the same thing repeatedly.

And who could forget this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToKIkw3LIoQ

 

[Tekku]

Linear could actually be quite refreshing at the moment, when everything else is going open world. I just hope the environments make for some good combat and exploration.

 

[MyWhiteRequiem]

FYI you can still have an open world while maintaining tight, extremely focused design and detailed linear segments. See: any Zelda game ever made, except Skyward Sword, the main problem of which was that it was way too linear and didnt offer enough exploration.

This idea that an open world and great level design are mutually exclusive is plain silly.

 

[hesido]

Every game must be open world!

Spoiler

No.

 

[ionicbluebird]

Is there lock-on aiming
I want lock-on aiming.

What like auto aim.. or aim assist?

Because we don't need that anymore.. See Shadowfall.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

What games are open world just for the sake of it?

The reason why some may want a more open environment is because they want more freedom in their games, as opposed to being forced along a straight line because the developers wanted total control over how you experienced their story.

More freedom automatically incentivizes a focus on mechanics and content, as opposed to the focus on story that linearity seemingly tends to incentivize, what setpieces to funnel the player through, the amount of mobs to place between the player and the next cutscene trigger - instead of, basically, controlling the player, they have to establish rules the player has to abide by. Linear games are essentially 1 dimensional, games like Castlevania, Metroid, Shadow Complex and Darksiders are 2 dimensional, while open world games like GTA, Elder Scrolls are 3 dimensional.

And then you woke up.

In reality, open world action-adventure/RPG games are in just as much need of a shift from a developer who can, or at least attempt to shake up the formula and do something new as linear titles are. For the last 2 generations, all I've seen are GTA and Elder Scroll clones, and the last few years have brought us the wonderful Ubisoft Formula™. Open world games, for the most part, have become just as routine and assembly line as the hated "linear cinematic experience." Even the "revolutionary" Grand Theft Auto V was little more than Rockstar North being Rockstar North, only with twice the money, time, and man hours thrown at it so it looks shinier than ever. The worlds are still mostly set dressing, the mechanics are still less polished than more focused titles, and stories within those games have gotten even worse with an oil & water mixture of restrictive scripting in a sandbox, or narratives that don't fit the pacing + open nature in the slightest.

Am I in favor of on-rails, super controlled, rollercoaster, corridor shoot em ups? Hell no, I got tired of those 5 years ago. But "linear" does not mean "bad," and complaining about it before we've even seen any footage of what the game really is, is crazy. From everything they've told us, the game clearly favors a more linear focus. Hopefully it's the superior "Wide-linear" kind of design which provides enough control to craft a super precise game on top of providing some exploration for world building and pacing purposes. If anyone not on board with that kind of design is so hungry for open world games, you have more choices than ever coming up in this generation. I hope each of them is as revolutionary and immersive and free as they seem to be in your heads.

 

[terrier]

More freedom more often than not sacrifices engaging level design, enemy encounters, competent mechanics etc.. for the sake of variety. See GTA5 and its horrible core shooting mechanics vs a linear game like Vanquish which had exceptional shooting. I dont want a zillion things to do in the game if those zillion things are not made with quality. Open world games are usually extremely shallow. It is just space and nothing else.

this a million times. Plus there are enough open world games to please gamers, just stick with them and leave developers choose what they want to do. I'll stick with 'cinematic driven SP experiences' since i enjoy them way more. Thanks.

 

[NeoROCK]

There will be mustache and beard physics, according to RaD co-founder Andrea Pessino's twitter.

 

[Jac_Solar]

More freedom more often than not sacrifices engaging level design, enemy encounters, competent mechanics etc.. for the sake of variety. See GTA5 and its horrible core shooting mechanics vs a linear game like Vanquish which had exceptional shooting. I dont want a zillion things to do in the game if those zillion things are not made with quality. Open world games are usually extremely shallow. It is just space and nothing else.

If there was any reason to think that someone could make a game that is as mechanically sound as Vanquish, then I don't think anyone, or nearly as many, would complain about linear games. But there hasn't been a game remotely as enjoyable as Vanquish since Vanquish.

Open world games generally offer more variety and fun than a linear game. I agree that it's too early to start complaining about anything regarding this particular game, though.

 

[Baldwin_the_First]

“rather than just making a third-person game, we took it upon ourselves to figure out why we like them. Not everybody likes third-person shooters for the same exact reason, so we tried to figure out what the core elements were [that] we wanted to keep, and also add that element of what we’ve done in the past – for example, melee.
Shooters have a tendency to be very light or canned on melee. We wanted to find new ways of introducing it that would keep you feeling you were in a shooter that’s evolved into something else, rather than been segmented. It started with us trying to figure out how we balance the two, shooter and melee, but then it evolved into us making this shooter with different melee systems.

“Beyond that, we also tried to make the moment-to-moment gameplay different. We didn’t want it to be a grind for 40-45 minutes because you’re in shooting mode. Everything in the game happens in little bursts, and that really makes you not dwell too much on one thing that might otherwise bore you.”


That's the best part for me. I love melee and if it's implemented as well as what they make it sound like, I'm a happy man.

 

[R_Deckard]

Not every game has to be a vast open sandbox for us to play in?

Look at how many people DID not finish GTIV or even GTAV/ 3 / Vice City / Skyrim etc etc.

Sometimes too much choice makes the game hard to flow and means there is no real As the Maker intended game experience.

This is a game that will tell a story, involve the player and in the end take each and eveyone who plays it on a journey.. What is wrong with that.

SP/MP/Open World/Sports Games/Driving ganes/Sims etc all have their place and if this is not for you then fine..leave it alone and let all those (like myself) that think the entire world/story and Vision and mythology of this game looks amazing and intriguing to enjoy it, and it beautiful visuals/Linear story and interactive story telling!!

 

[DigitalOp]

I could not disagree more. Open world games are just becoming bigger and more vapid copy/paste asset design filled with useless collectables and stupid side quests. I enjoy open world games but they never feel anywhere near as polished or as engrossing as a good, focused, tightly designed linear title.

This so damn much.

GTAV and AssCreed IV are anomalies to the Open World genre.... As much as I love Red Dead, the world was pretty bare and basic (it was the west tho
....) Open world games are actually the total opposite of what that guy was talking about.

Focus on mechanics? Haha Open World often are loosely based on mechanics. The focus is on traversing the world. I'm still waiting for an open world game with a focused linear style presentation.

 

[Derrick01]

This so damn much.

GTAV and AssCreed IV are anomalies to the Open World genre.... As much as I love Red Dead, the world was pretty bare and basic (it was the west tho
....) Open world games are actually the total opposite of what that guy was talking about.

Focus on mechanics? Haha Open World often are loosely based on mechanics. The focus is on traversing the world. I'm still waiting for an open world game with a focused linear style presentation.

Why exclude assassin's creed when it's the main example people are talking about with bad open world design? Black Flag is the worst of that series with it too.

 

[Jigolo]

Why don't people bitch that Dead Space, Gears, or Resident Evil aren't open world? Because this is the exact kind of way The order 1886 will play. This call for open world was so out of the blue I don't even understand.

 

[kinggroin]

Why don't people bitch that Dead Space, Gears, or Resident Evil aren't open world? Because this is the exact kind of way The order 1886 will play. This call for open world was so out of the blue I don't even understand.

I don't think it was a call for open world GTA style so much as it was an expression of fear that the game would be ultra linear and shallow and NOT like the games you mentioned.

 

[dreamer3kx]

Open world, I didnt think this was open world from the jump, Im looking forward to this for the setting alone.

 

[Drek]

I don't think it was a call for open world GTA style so much as it was an expression of fear that the game would be ultra linear and shallow and NOT like the games you mentioned.

What in the world has led people to believe that The Order will be more linear than Gears?

I mean, Gears is straight point A to point B, 75% hallways, 3rd person shooting. It's more linear than the Uncharted series.

Doesn't mean they aren't still good games though. My personal hope is that this very much borrows inspiration from Gears' gameplay formula and provides a focused 3rd person shooter with co-op game play. My wife and I very much enjoyed playing through Gears 1-3 together and The Order is far more up our alley thematically.

 

[nib95]

FTFY

The difference now is that we've been there. Done that. Gamers want something new. I am afraid that that desire for something new has been taken by the devs to mean a film like experience when I believe that gamers want more choice in their gameplay and open environments.

We'll get plenty of open world games. Assassin's Creed, Dead Rising 3, InFamous SS, Destiny, Witcher 3, Dragon Age, Planetscape and so on, hell even Shadow Fall had some open ended gameplay levels! There's no reason why we can't have some diversity with a bit of both open world and linear. This immediate reaction to knock anything that isn't open world is a bit daft imo, especially when some of the best games this generation are actually linear or more focused (Last of Us, Bioshock, Uncharted 2 etc).

 

[Hypereides]

This game is getting less and less ambitious by the day :-(. Oh well it should have nice graphics and an original setting at least.

What.

 

[luxstellarum]

I don't think it was a call for open world GTA style so much as it was an expression of fear that the game would be ultra linear and shallow and NOT like the games you mentioned.

But why? Where has that fear come from?

 

[zoukka]

Fuck open world that is all.

RE4 was not open world.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

If there was any reason to think that someone could make a game that is as mechanically sound as Vanquish, then I don't think anyone, or nearly as many, would complain about linear games. But there hasn't been a game remotely as enjoyable as Vanquish since Vanquish.

Open world games generally offer more variety and fun than a linear game. I agree that it's too early to start complaining about anything regarding this particular game, though.

I have NEVER had as much fun in an open world game as I have in my favorite tightly designed, "linear" games. I'm sure many, many others share that opinion.

I've derived pleasure from the atmosphere, from merely "being" in an open world game, but I can't think of anything mechanically I've ever done that was as gripping or felt as good as performing actions in a good "linear" game.

As for variety, variety alone is not a positive if the vast majority of options are mundane and half-baked. I would rather do something well-crafted repeatedly, in varying scenarios (designed by hand, of course), than do a bunch of different things that aren't fun to begin with.

 

[Harlequin]

Ugh...all I read here was "blah blah blah no multiplayer or co-op".

If that's the case this went from a system seller to a rental for me. Hopefully I'm reading too much into that line but that's not the first time they've stressed the term 'single-player' before. If they decide to go that route I think it would be a huge mistake.

I'll never understand the need to force-slap multiplayer onto everything. This game is heavily story-focused. It doesn't need multiplayer and I doubt it would work too well in multiplayer. All adding a multiplayer would do would be take away time and resources from the creation of the single-player mode and the resulting multiplayer mode would probably be a generic run-of-the-mill TPS multiplayer. Co-op, that could've very well worked inside the story mode, considering you've got four characters. But again, the game doesn't need it and it'd take away time and resources from the single-player.

 

[BigDaddyFatSack]

Fuck open world that is all.

RE4 was not open world.

However, we do have powerful systems this generation to take advantage of. RE4 wouldn't have looked and played as good if it was open world on such technically limited systems.

 

[zoukka]

However, we do have powerful systems this generation to take advantage of. RE4 wouldn't have looked and played as good if it was open world on such technically limited systems.

It would also have been a completely different type of game!

 

[Cozmogramma]

This call for open world was so out of the blue I don't even understand.

Yeah, I don't get it either. They said very early on that they focused on a cinematic experience (with inspiration from Uncharted) and there's never been a hint that it would play out in an open/semi open world.

 

[zoukka]

Yeah, I don't get it either. They said very early on that they focused on a cinematic experience (with inspiration from Uncharted) and there's never been a hint that it would play out in an open/semi open world.

Unfortunately some people take concept art too literally.

 

[Messofanego]

I am pretty excited for this. The setting looks great, looks sort of like Dishonored, one of my favorite games ever.

Why is there only linear and open world being discussed. Personally, a game like this should be like Mini Ninjas if you ask me, linear but with a whole bunch of level to explore and wander through if you feel like it.

If there's one game that doesn't get enough love, it's Mini Ninjas. I think the term now is "wide linear" like in Alan Wake and other non-hub action games.

 

[MDSLKTR]

The op could almost be about last of us. Just replace explorable alleyways with explorable coffee shops.

 

[schwabdizzle]

Fuck open world that is all.

RE4 was not open world.

RE4 was also a pretty long game. I would love a linear 15-20 hour game. That would be perfect IMHO.

 

[kaching]

God damn I don't think anybody wants or expected The Order to be an open world game. All we want is some exploration, NPC and environment interaction and not just waves of enemies in corridors.

Good thing nothing in this interview takes any of that off the table then! The "concerns" being aired in this thread are taking some massive liberties with what the devs have said of their game.