back across apps like app switching using a full swipe? I get what you mean by multi finger gestures now though. I can see it working more on the tablet.Charred Greyface said:I... didn't think that completely through. My first idea was that a two finger swipe up would be useful for activating a virtual keyboard anywhere and a two finger swipe back would be a 'full' back button with which you can jump back across apps... Yeah, three finger gestures aren't neededbut wouldn't they be so cool
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the Palm Pre, color me impressed
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Sanic
Member
Someone found this: http://developer.palm.com/appredirect/index.php?packageid=com.palm.app.flashplayer#
No idea if it's real (IE not spam) or not, or how long it's been there, but it currently doesn't work. It will fail to download everytime. Hmmm..................
fake edit: Maybe I spoke too soon? http://www.precentral.net/flash-webos-imminent-adobe-site-launches-app
No idea if it's real (IE not spam) or not, or how long it's been there, but it currently doesn't work. It will fail to download everytime. Hmmm..................
fake edit: Maybe I spoke too soon? http://www.precentral.net/flash-webos-imminent-adobe-site-launches-app
Unknown Soldier
Member
A brief blurb from an interested outsider:
It seems like Palm hasn't been able to catch a break during all the of the first decade of the 2000's. Despite numerous realignments of corporate entities, including splitting off Handspring, re-absorbing Handspring, splitting off PalmOne, re-absorbing PalmOne, selling the old Palm OS assets, re-acquiring a perpetual license to use the old Palm OS, they just couldn't get it together and release a good, desirable mobile OS to replace the original legendary Palm OS. First they got ran over by Microsoft and Windows Mobile, then by RIM and Blackberry, and then Apple and the iPhone. Meanwhile Nokia's Symbian just keeps on going and going and going. After many years of failed discarded OSes, they finally created WebOS from scratch using the ever-popular Linux kernel, only to run head-on in the unstoppable freight train juggernaut that is Android.
WebOS is a pretty nice implementation of a mobile OS. It's lightweight, visually pleasing, and supports true multitasking. It's also years too late. The future is undeniably Android at this point, with Android phones outselling iPhones 3:1 or 4:1 and with Android likely to surpass iOS in market share by 2012, second only to the unassailable Symbian. Even Motorola, who spent years developing their own Linux-based mobile OS called LINUXMOTO, saw the oncoming Google-powered freight train and hitched a ride as soon as they could, dumping their own software to embrace Android. HTC is all-in after years of producing increasingly irrelevant Windows Mobile devices, and Samsung is looking for a mainstream OS product since their own Linux-based bada OS is going nowhere outside of South Korea. Speaking of Microsoft, Windows Phone 7 may end up going the way of Zune and be a great device which nobody buys, but it will probably mark the end for WebOS in the smartphone space. There just isn't enough room in the "Other" slice of the pie after you've divided up Symbian's, Android's, iOS's, and Blackberry's shares of the market. Microsoft has unlimited resources to prop WP7 up even as everyone ignores it, HPalm doesn't.
WebOS, we barely knew ye. You were cute, and functional, and your UI was really fantastic. Since the main UI designer of WebOS is now working on the UI for Android 3.0 (Gingerbread), we can hope to see a legacy of sorts in Android by the end of this year for the little mobile OS that was good enough, smart enough, and doggone it, people liked it. Just...not enough people. :*(
It seems like Palm hasn't been able to catch a break during all the of the first decade of the 2000's. Despite numerous realignments of corporate entities, including splitting off Handspring, re-absorbing Handspring, splitting off PalmOne, re-absorbing PalmOne, selling the old Palm OS assets, re-acquiring a perpetual license to use the old Palm OS, they just couldn't get it together and release a good, desirable mobile OS to replace the original legendary Palm OS. First they got ran over by Microsoft and Windows Mobile, then by RIM and Blackberry, and then Apple and the iPhone. Meanwhile Nokia's Symbian just keeps on going and going and going. After many years of failed discarded OSes, they finally created WebOS from scratch using the ever-popular Linux kernel, only to run head-on in the unstoppable freight train juggernaut that is Android.
WebOS is a pretty nice implementation of a mobile OS. It's lightweight, visually pleasing, and supports true multitasking. It's also years too late. The future is undeniably Android at this point, with Android phones outselling iPhones 3:1 or 4:1 and with Android likely to surpass iOS in market share by 2012, second only to the unassailable Symbian. Even Motorola, who spent years developing their own Linux-based mobile OS called LINUXMOTO, saw the oncoming Google-powered freight train and hitched a ride as soon as they could, dumping their own software to embrace Android. HTC is all-in after years of producing increasingly irrelevant Windows Mobile devices, and Samsung is looking for a mainstream OS product since their own Linux-based bada OS is going nowhere outside of South Korea. Speaking of Microsoft, Windows Phone 7 may end up going the way of Zune and be a great device which nobody buys, but it will probably mark the end for WebOS in the smartphone space. There just isn't enough room in the "Other" slice of the pie after you've divided up Symbian's, Android's, iOS's, and Blackberry's shares of the market. Microsoft has unlimited resources to prop WP7 up even as everyone ignores it, HPalm doesn't.
WebOS, we barely knew ye. You were cute, and functional, and your UI was really fantastic. Since the main UI designer of WebOS is now working on the UI for Android 3.0 (Gingerbread), we can hope to see a legacy of sorts in Android by the end of this year for the little mobile OS that was good enough, smart enough, and doggone it, people liked it. Just...not enough people. :*(
Sanic
Member
Lkr said:
Really? Maybe i'm misremembering, or something has changed.
I've never added an AIM account, but I did add a Facebook account and the same thing happened in that my contacts list was populated with my Facebook friends. I removed all of those people by doing what I just told you to do, so i'm not sure why it would be any different for an AIM account. Hmmm I can't think of anything off the top of my head at the moment, sorry :/ hopefully someone else can chime in.
Gotta to disagree. Now I have no quarrel with the 'facts' or 'analysis' in that piece (eg Android has momentum but WebOS doesn't)what I do believe to be wrong are the conclusions.Unknown Soldier said:
I think the cellphone market is much like the video game market. It's quite possible to jump from a last position to top dog in the next generation.
The number of apps available and selling in the store matter more to developers than customers. Look at the list of most downloaded and used apps for every smartphone platform, they are all very similar. Facebook tops the list on each one. most of the top apps are available for every platform. Yes, customers for iOS and Android have a lot more options and download a lot more apps than WebOS but the truth of the matter is that most apps are only tried out a couple of times and overwhelming majority are never launched again after the first month.
Palm with have the second mainstream-ready touchOS tablet out (or third, BB has been hinting that they have one on the way). By 'mainstream-ready' I mean ads on tv and availability at BestBuy (i.e. If only readers of techcruch are aware of the newest android tablet, and have to order it off a chinese website, then it's not mainstream-ready). There is still lots of room in the tablet market and observers of the iPod Touch can confirm how those consumer electronic devices influence users in the smartphone market.
HPalm has stated that they will be supporting WebOS. I don't see the reasoning behind claiming that they can't support it like Microsoft. Even if webos smartphone sales never get to a respectable level, HPalm intend to use webOS across a variety of devices so sales of printers can support development in the strategically important segment of cellphones. Unless you believe every webos device will be a huge flop...
Finally, the fanbase around WebOS is hardcore. WebOS itself was so far ahead of the pack that others aren't close to catching up (next April at the earliest for improved notifications in iOS and no estimated date on Android 3.0). The attractions of the gesture driven interface and cards metaphor might not be readily apparent to newbies but sophisticated users swear by it. Despite the premature proclamations of the passing away of Palm (much like Apple in the 90s) I predict that HPalm will survive for another round.
I should source most of my points but I'm feeling lazy today
jonnybryce
Member
Unknown Soldier said:
Really good writeup imo. I would like to think that WP7 would be a success, webOS would gain steam and BB would just die but this is obviously not going to happen. WP7 has it's issues, BB's Torch is getting super positive feedback from your everyday consumer (it was trending on Twitter as positive as I've ever seen) and webOS is in a tight spot...again.
I had a Pre but didn't like the hardware and returned it. I really, really wrestled with the idea of getting a Pre Plus instead of a Droid but just couldn't justify it. Sometimes I wish I had the Pre Plus over the Droid - webOS is beautiful and the Pre is very nice looking and compact - but I believe I made the right choice.
Sprint, Verizon and AT&T all gave Palm a chance. We all know what Palm did wrong from commercials to hardware to sitting on that hardware for a year and a half. HP needs to throw out a Droid X/Evo challenger for hope of survival and adoption and even then it's tough.
If Windows Phone 7 is rejected like WinMo, Kin or even Zune to a degree then there's the chance for webOS to gain attention but the devices have to be there. They're not right now.
Sanic
Member
jonnybryce said:
Well, Verizon at least sent the Pre and Pixi out to die, so i'm not sure if they really 'gave Palm a chance', but I agree that the situation that is present now is partly Palm's fault.
Though we can make logical conclusions, it's impossible to predict how things will play out longterm. All I know is that we'll have a new WebOS phone either later this year or next year, and i'm looking forward to that
Eh, try thinking like a casual user and not a power user and I think there is only 1 major reason webos hasn't caught on and it's Palms fault. Millions of BB Storm users were looking to leave and they went to the first verizon smartphone with a competent touchscreen os, the droid.
The exclusive period with sprint went too long.
There are still many many more people without a smartphone then with one so the market is still both open and huge.
Also, you have the opinions of HP, a smart and highly successful company versus those of tech journalist, prone to jumping to conclusions.
The exclusive period with sprint went too long.
There are still many many more people without a smartphone then with one so the market is still both open and huge.
Also, you have the opinions of HP, a smart and highly successful company versus those of tech journalist, prone to jumping to conclusions.
Don't know but try a search on precentral.net forums.Lkr said:
I just use universal search and don't bother with the contacts apps so it doesn't bother me. Universal search is one of the reasons I want an always available keyboard like the Pixi, it's that good.
For msn messenger, you'll have to buy one of the messaging apps in the app catalog. Read the reviews and see which one best fits. There may be a free homebrew solution but I've never used it.
Edit: PDK Hot apps leaderboard up http://palmhotapps.com/
jobber
Would let Tony Parker sleep with his wife
:lol but truejobber said:
more specifically
get the app I love homebrew in the oficially app catalog. It has links to the instructions.
there are lots of good homebrew apps and many end up in the app cat.
free music ringtones is now homebrew only and a great app.
don't know about pixi specific wallpapers, just try some of the free wallpaper apps.
I'll jailbreak tomorrow. I have to exchange my Pixi at the Sprint store tomorrow because I have a defective pixel and my 'n' key barely works. i know i'm nitpicking, but 30 day satisfaction guarantee sounds good. i'm not satisfied with a huge green dead pixel on my screen when watching videos:lol
What are the best apps available guys? I'm mainly into free ones
What are the best apps available guys? I'm mainly into free ones
Sanic
Member
Lkr said:What are the best apps available guys? I'm mainly into free ones
Go into the app store, pick a category, sort by price, you'll get the top free downloads at the start of the list. Oh, and www.precentral.com
As for specifics, well it depends on what you're looking for.
Best Free Apps... can't really say. I splurged on paid apps when Palm was having the half price promotion... If you want twitter client or podcast downloader recommendations instead I can give you that
Palm Pixi shows off 3D gaming chops with webOS 1.4.5 release (video)
for all y'all who love games...
Palm Pixi shows off 3D gaming chops with webOS 1.4.5 release (video)
What with all the "battery optimization" excitement, we nearly forgot that Sprint's new webOS 1.4.5 update doesn't just empower the Pre; it also finally brings PDK'd OpenGL and SDL support to the Palm Pixi. On the off chance you don't speak developer lingo, that's short for 3D apps and games, and as it turns out the pint-sized Pixi doesn't play the latter half-badly. PreCentral fired up a copy of Need For Speed: Undercover on the freshly-upgraded handset immediately above, and found the game perfectly playable with "decent" framerates and only slightly sub-par load times. Watch their spiffy Nissan turn tricks right after the break, and pray companies get cracking on some Unreal Engine 3 apps soon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XechNPxs_30
SOURCE Precentral
for all y'all who love games...
also, go to cyrket.com or get the uberappcat app. Both let you filter free and rating together (although alot are betas on cyrket's list). Oh, and www.webosroundup.com.Pandoracell said:
btw, stitcher is a good free podacast app and spaz is a good free twitter app.
jonnybryce
Member
Palm really shouldn't be playing the secret game. They should announce loud and proud what they've got coming so people hold off on all the competition for it. If I knew they were delivering something truly killer I probably would hold off on Win7 for it but with a track record of Pre + Pixi and Pre Plus + Pixi Plus I'm not going to hold off on faith.
I can't compare to an iPhone as I've never owned one but in my experience the Palm Pre Pluses battery life is absolutely fucking terrible. Don't get me wrong, I love my phone, I really do, I've never been a big apps person and it does everything I want, but I sometimes work 12+ hour days and with just using my phone during my one hour lunch and few 15 minute breaks spread throughout the day it's down to 20% by the time I get home and if I forget to charge it it's dead by the time I wake up. I think that's pretty shit coming from non smart phones and a Blackberry Pearl which could last days with the same light usage.Ulairi said:
But I really like the phone, it's been real easy to use, I like the way instant messages, email and text's are done and have no fault with it other than the battery life. I have not yet bought a spare or extended battery for it so I don't have any first hand knowledge with those but I do plan on buying an extended battery when I finish with some of my other financial obligations.
My Pre Plus does not do that, I wouldn't stand for any phone that did that in all honesty, I would take it in and see if it's defective and can be replaced. I had it buzz once, I think there was some interference that day, but it was once during several months of ownership, I wouldn't tolerate it every call.jdogmoney said:
Depending on your phone usage I'd guess that the Palm Pre Plus offers 60%-75% battery life of what you get with the iPhone 5. Best wait u till you've used the phone for a few days before buying an extended battery. You also don't want to get too many accessories that are phone specific if you're waiting for the next WebOS phone. You aren't signing a new contract for the Pre Plus right?!Ulairi said:
I don't have those problems on my Pixi Plus. Get yours checked.jdogmoney said:
Last time Palm blew their load early (for original Pre) the hardware was already obsolete by time the phone was available. Palm needs to get the new phone announcement as close to release as possible (not too close, else they can't build hype). The market is getting very crowded and the worst thing for HPalm would be to announce the phone and then an Android device, say the Droid 2, is released that steals their thunder. Palm needs to have that a device that's top of the pile (even if only for a brief period) so everybody is talking about it and they can build mindshare.jonnybryce said:
This. I'm already planning to upgrade to a Samsung Epic at the end of this month, and I wasn't even a super early adopter on the Pre (got mine Aug 1 last year).jonnybryce said:
I would get the successor to the Pre if I knew what was coming, but with new phones coming out so quickly, it makes more sense to take the upgrade when you can.
I really like the Pre though and I bet there will be a bunch of things about webOS that I will really miss...but I also think it will be interesting to have an Android phone for a year to see how it stacks up...
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
MASSIVE mistake. As nice as the pre is, you simply don't want to use your two year upgrade on it. It will be replaced soon (or not at all, which is worse), has little support behind it, etc. But even if you decide that you want it instead of an iphone 4, you should keep your iphone 4, sell it, and buy a pre from ebay. You'll make several hundred dollars easy.Ulairi said:
samus i am
Member
We are in the same boat. I bought my Pre last August and I'm ready to upgrade. If Palm even gave me a little hint, it would cause me to wait for the next big thing. As it stands I am leaning towards picking up the epic.Argyle said:
jonnybryce
Member
If they make the specs not suck this time and avoid a stupid 6 month gap from announcement to release this won't be a problem.Charred Greyface said:
Looks like you guys want more rumors. 
http://www.precentral.net/roadrunner-hd-and-webos-20-pop-logs-time-640x960
http://www.precentral.net/roadrunner-hd-and-webos-20-pop-logs-time-640x960
It wasn't an annoucement, it was an answer to a question about netbooks vs ipad sales.
The pre has the same cpu and ram as the 3gs which came out a month later and the droid which came out a few months after so why do people say the specs suck? It's slower because webos is based on web languages and there's pros and cons to using web languages (which will get a speed boost with 2.0).
jonnybryce
Member
Asbel said:
It's similar to Dreamcast vs. N64 & PS1 -> Dreamcast vs. Ps2 and the new generation.
The Pre came out at an awkward time, it doesn't have the processing speed to fight with the latest phones, nor the screen size, screen res (Look at a Droid or iPhone 4's screen and then look at the Pre's), or even durability (plastic screen infamous for cracking in pockets by users who all swear they "treated it like a newborn baby.") It's out dated. It is. It's ok for 1.5yr+ phone to be outdated. It's one thing to be this way and find success in the mainstream (as the Torch is attempting), it's another when they don't want you and techies don't either.
If they fought the iPhone 4, Android devices and upcoming wave of Win7 with an announcement of killer hardware running this webOS 2.0 and made it available in a two or three months (not 6 months this time) then the device(s) could keep up in specs since everything is hovering around 3.7+, gorilla glass, high res, 1Ghz, 16gb+, front cam, etc and have customers who will wait for this device.
HP said they're allowing Palm to push forward with their roadmap. Palm has had forever to work on a new webOS phone aside from the Pre and Pixi. It really shouldn't be taking them this long to make a move. HPalm's best move would be to hold a conference where they show off the new hardware, webOS2.0 and what they have for the future instead of keeping to the shadows while the still push the Pre and wonder why life is so unfair to them.
jonnybryce said:
This is just stupid. As already pointed out (you're directly replying to his post) the Pre was very competitive hardware when it came out - the iPhone 3GS which came out about three weeks later basically had the same spec.
Since then, the market has been flooded with smartphones, and the spec has been ratcheted up via seemingly biweekly phone releases at this point. But at that point, what else was there? in June '09 there were only a few Android handsets to choose from and the Pre and iPhone had better specs than any of them. Even the Droid 1 which landed a few months later basically had the same spec as the Pre.
jonnybryce said:
No one is arguing the pre is outdated by today standards. But with HP money, they don't need to sell the Pre to finance the next release. They need to release new hardware, but not as urgent as before HP bought them. HP said they're letting Palm go forward with their roadmap but it's likely the buyout delayed the release of the next phone. Like we all agree, Palm should announce their next phone but not until they are ready to release it within a few months of announcement. I think the new rumor by the infamous Jackson is plausible.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3528740/What Happened to the Palm c40 .htm
samus i am
Member
Ummmm no. What are you basing this on?dream said:
Unknown Soldier
Member
Apps is what's killing WebOS. You need apps to generate interest, you need to generate interest to get developers to make apps. It's a self-sustaining cycle at some point, but it needs to start somewhere. If HP is serious about reviving Palm and WebOS, they need to spend $100 million advertising whatever new Palm device comes out this Christmas the way Verizon spent $100 million advertising the Droid. Droid is what singlehandedly turned Android from a contender to a champion. HP needs the Palm equivalent of the Droid to turn WebOS's fortunes around.
samus i am
Member
Like unknown soldier said, apps is really the only thing you mentioned that applies.dream said:
The hardware is an issue, but the software is great.
dream
Member
samus i am said:
The SDK STILL lacks critical functionality like mic access for VOIP apps. The browser doesn't support standard features like geo tags. Youtube's HTML5 mobile site doesn't even work on WebOS. Luna still isn't hardware accelerated.
Why would anyone buy into WebOS at this point?
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