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[Rightisright]

What if I told you the PS5 would be able to run games equally as well, but at a 13% reduced resolution?

As I have said a few times, I don't think anyone will be able to tell the difference between the two versions side by side.
DF with their pixel counting and FPS monitoring might be able to.
I mean, normal people cant tell the difference between a XOX game at 4k to a Pro game at 1440P even.
But the way PS fans are trying to bend the fact that XSX is more power is just crazy.

 

[Gavon West]

Exactly! Some don't want that to be true though.



This is true! And this is what the whole next-gen will be about because some gamers that don't actually play games would rather argue over on game having 14% better resolution or another game running 1 to 2 fps better than the other because they are bored. This is what happens when two consoles are this close in power.

This is bullshit. They arent that close in power. PS5 gets handidly beat in most areas of both consoles. We all know the best thing about the PS5 is the SSD and even that isnt much to brag about when both consoles will have them.

 

[bitbydeath]

At the end of the day Microsoft can give away their consoles and be fine. Sony will never be able to win a price war if Microsoft wants to win it.

Nope. Like all large companies they are slaves to their shareholders and theirs no way that would ever be allowed.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

So if the PS5 has less bottlenecks, we’re saying the XsX is bottlenecked by its still ultra fast SSD but the PS5 isn’t bottlenecked by its gimped CU count?

cmon man

 

[Sosokrates]

Man, these posts are so familiar to the Xbox One launch. Pretty soon we're going to be seeing people claiming that there's a discrete GPU in the PSU.

Yeah its so bad people making up wack theories to try and downplay the power edge the XsX has.
I dont even understand why some are still doing it, the edge the xsx will have will be very small.
People just need to accept.

 

[CJY]

The PS5 hardware seems like Sony is trying to create something very innovative after the rather safe PS4. This was out of necessity as they were on the verge of bankruptcy and had no room for error.

So the PS5 seems like they are stretching their wings and trying to create a small revolution here. All Xbox fans can talk about it 'teraflops' which is a futile game and misses the wood for the trees.

Totally agreed.

Did you see what Lisa Su said about PS5 and Cerny last year at Computex? (timestamped)

 

[bitbydeath]

So if the PS5 has less bottlenecks, we’re saying the XsX is bottlenecked by its still ultra fast SSD but the PS5 isn’t bottlenecked by its gimped CU count?

cmon man

Mark Cerny claims PS5 has 0 bottlenecks.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

You said this was the 104th thread on the topic so of course that makes this info true. Clearly you were being sarcastic as to say this info is false. You were pretty clear there.

This info is speculation. Just another in a long line of threads speculating how secret sauce A, B, C, D, etc etc is going to bridge the gap between the two consoles.

Still waiting for that quote where I say flops is all that matters.

 

[Drewpee]

Nope. Like all large companies they are slaves to their shareholders and theirs no way that would ever be allowed.

Their main goal is to have as many people in the Xbox Live ecosystem as possible, they see that as the most profitable way forward long term. What better way is there to accomplish that goal?

 

[bitbydeath]

Their main goal is to have as many people in the Xbox Live ecosystem as possible, they see that as the most profitable way forward long term. What better way is there to accomplish that goal?

0 hardware.

 

[Sosokrates]

Mark Cerny claims PS5 has 0 bottlenecks.

Well of course hes going to say that.
Its not true though something will give out, as it will on the XSX.

 

[Sosokrates]

0 hardware.

That would mean no console customers, because sony certainly would not let ms have there own stores on playstation.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Totally agreed.

Did you see what Lisa Su said about PS5 and Cerny last year at Computex? (timestamped)

Yep, they are trying to revolutionise what a gaming console is. I'm just going through the Corteks video where the guy concludes Sony/Cerny identifying access to memory as the key performance 'cost' (or bottleneck) means PS5 has 'won the console war' because of the IO and SSD and how their accelerators in this area are so far ahead of whats inside Series X.

Sounds hyperbolic but PS5's SSD DMA controller has TWELVE channels. For comparison, Series X has THREE.



So I am starting to understand why all the developers are saying the PS5 is so exciting.

 

[DForce]

Doesn't surprise me that Xbox fans here are saying XsX has an SSD too when it's clear that the PS5 is capable of doing a lot more.

It doesn't look good with the majority of anysis, devs etc disagree with what a lot of Xbox fans are saying here.

 

[bitbydeath]

Well of course hes going to say that.
Its not true though something will give out, as it will on the XSX.

He’s a tech guy, not a PR guy so their may be some merit. It’d explain why devs are so happy but I agree we should wait and see how it unfolds.

 

[McCheese]

I'm just glad both consoles have taken a different approach, going to be interesting to see what first-party studios can squeeze out of them. Also means Digital Foundry is going to be kept busy!

Can you imagine if the rumours of them being 'near identical' were true and how fucking boring that would be, buying £400 for almost the same hardware again just for exclusives? Nah, the PS4 is going to have some insane procedurally loaded world stuff and it's haptic controller, and Xbox is going to have native 4k/120fps games.

 

[bitbydeath]

That would mean no console customers, because sony certainly would not let ms have there own stores on playstation.

I just meant better than giving hardware away from a business standpoint.

More games that appeal to other markets would also see more people join. Eg. Single player only AAA titles is the big selling point for Playstation consoles.

 

[TheGreatYosh]

So Microsoft could eat a loss but Sony can't? There is a reason why Sony didn't push for more CUs other then backwards compatibility and I think it has to do with hitting that 400 dollar price point.

Neither one will take much of a loss at 500.

 

[Sakura Doritos]

I love a technical argument that uses “Sort-of not” but fail to realize that is exactly the same thing as “Kind-of Is”

Both systems are going to be great. Let’s see the games!

 

[The Alien]

Lol. So much damage control.

Last gen 'games journalist' shills laughed at the thought of Microsoft having secret sauce.

Now, on their knees, they greedily gobble down all the sauce Sony spurts forth and then regurgitate it for the fanatically faithful's eager consumption and clicks.

 

[Sosokrates]

He’s a tech guy, not a PR guy so their may be some merit. It’d explain why devs are so happy but I agree we should wait and see how it unfolds.

Yeah he is a tech guy, but hes been a very loyal sony contractor, if you cant spot his PR speak over the years then you must be very naive.
The ps4, pro and ps5 all have flaws (the ps5 less though) and cerny never speaks of them, because be under no illusions that cerny is trying to sell you a playstation console.

Yep, they are trying to revolutionise what a gaming console is. I'm just going through the Corteks video where the guy concludes Sony/Cerny identifying access to memory as the key performance 'cost' (or bottleneck) means PS5 has 'won the console war' because of the IO and SSD and how their accelerators in this area are so far ahead of whats inside Series X.

Sounds hyperbolic but PS5's SSD DMA controller has TWELVE channels. For comparison, Series X has THREE.



So I am starting to understand why all the developers are saying the PS5 is so exciting.

Those devs have not talked about the ps5 in comparison to the xsx, plus most of them are sony devs.
Also whats your source that xsx has 3 channels to its ssd? I would like to know more about that.

 

[DForce]

Lol. So much damage control.

Last gen 'games journalist' shills laughed at the thought of Microsoft having secret sauce.

Now, on their knees, they greedily gobble down all the sauce Sony spurts forth and then regurgitate it for the fanatically faithful's eager consumption and clicks.

Because a secondary chip wasn't real.
SSD is real.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Basically, the way processors are moving (both AMD and Nvidia have come to the same conclusion, as well as Apple/ARM) is that increasing just compute performance is no longer the only or best use of space on a chip.

Accelerators (like Nvidia's Tensor cores or RT cores, or PS5's dedicated DMA controller) are the future, and is why we are going to see RDNA2 dGPU's (and Nvidia's new 7nm GPUs) have lots of transistors dedicated to accelerator functions inside their GPUs.

So whilst the non tech savvy think the battleground is just compute or, teraflops, the real battleground is dedicated engines/controllers for accelerator functions. This is why devs are saying PS5 is a beast, and just as capable as Series X, because Sony has been paying attention.

 

[Rightisright]

Mark Cerny claims PS5 has 0 bottlenecks.

I bet MS claim the same thing.

 

[Rightisright]

I have heard someone come out with the Sony version of a hidden GPU in the power brick.
Apparently Cerny hinted that they are able to increase the speed of the GPU even higher, and that Sony are going to do this once devs have got to grips with the PS5 via a firmware update (aka Xbox One)

 

[TheGreatYosh]

Yeah. I'm fairly well ingrained into the Sony ecosystem, plus I'm not all that interested in speculation on specifications. They haven't mattered in the past and will make not 1 iota of a difference this coming gen. If it did, the Switch would be fucked.

If Microsoft or Sony released the Switch they would be fucked.

 

[Sean*O]

Less is better!

Well less cores running at a higher clock can be more efficient, but whatever. This thread is funny.

 

[Vawn]

Why do some Xbox fans get so outraged about positive PS5 opinions?

 

[CJY]

Yep, they are trying to revolutionise what a gaming console is. I'm just going through the Corteks video where the guy concludes Sony/Cerny identifying access to memory as the key performance 'cost' (or bottleneck) means PS5 has 'won the console war' because of the IO and SSD and how their accelerators in this area are so far ahead of whats inside Series X.

Sounds hyperbolic but PS5's SSD DMA controller has TWELVE channels. For comparison, Series X has THREE.



So I am starting to understand why all the developers are saying the PS5 is so exciting.

I don't think we gotten confirmation about the number of lanes in XSX yet. I've heard 3, 4 all the way up to 8.

This image of XSX SD overlaid on the PCB might be quite telling though:

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Accelerator engines/controllers is what I want to see compared, as communication from GPU to memory is a huge cost (bottleneck) to performance.

Specifically I am talking about accelerators on the I/O. PS5 seems to be far more advanced in this respect as it has the following:

DMA controller (12 channels)
Coherency Engines
Cache Scrubbers

Other examples, as mentioned, include:

Nvidia's Tensor Cores
RT Cores

And whatever AMD calls their own dedicated RT transistors in their RDNA2 GPUs.

It seems MS have played a fools game and have been blinded by their pursuit of higher compute at the expense of the above! Cerny/Sony may have played a blinder here and beaten them all ends up, seriously. Will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

 

[Gamerguy84]

Totally agreed.

Did you see what Lisa Su said about PS5 and Cerny last year at Computex? (timestamped)

Damn thats some praise. Cerny is the man...

He approached Sony to ask if he could design the PS4, the best move they made was saying yes.

He was the lead on PS4, Vita, and PS5 which is sure to blow some minds.

 

[Sosokrates]

Because a secondary chip wasn't real.
SSD is real.

Its real but we dont know the real world performance difference it will have.
3rd parties cant design a game around custom hardware.
1st party cant be compared.
The GPU,CPU + RAM advantages of the XsX can be utilized in multiplatform games.

So at the end of the day the XsX will be having better performing games, while they will likely load faster on PS5.

 

[Azurro]

Articles like this are lost on 90% of the people on this forum. It's actually quite an interesting analysis. Thanks for posting it OP.

 

[Sosokrates]

Why do Xbox fans get so outraged about positive PS5 opinions?

They dont, most sensible gamers just point out obvious bullshit made up by fanboys in denial.

 

[CJY]

Why do Xbox fans get so outraged about positive PS5 opinions?

It's because Xbox fans have nothing but that single TFlops number to pin their hopes and dreams on.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Because a secondary chip wasn't real.
SSD is real.

So one car can speed at 100mph over a 25 foot track and the other car can go 200mph over a 25 foot track. Yeah, one got there twice as fast but both got there almost instantly

 

[Three]

If it has to say that only 7.5GB of fast RAM is left because of OS functions, the whole article loses credibility, because it makes it quite clear that whoever wrote it has no idea what he's talking about.

You need to reread the article. It never says only 7.5GB is left becuase of OS functions.

 

[DForce]

Its real but we dont know the real world performance difference it will have.
3rd parties cant design a game around custom hardware.
1st party cant be compared.
The GPU,CPU + RAM advantages of the XsX can be utilized in multiplatform games.

So at the end of the day the XsX will be having better performing games, while they will likely load faster on PS5.

If both consoles are using the SSD as virtual RAM (which is the main point when it comes to moving to SSD), then that means they the ability to stream better detailed assets better.

Yes, we don't know real world performance, but this isn't "secret sauce" since it's a real component, unlike a second GPU on the Xbox One.

 

[CJY]

Accelerator engines/controllers is what I want to see compared, as communication from GPU to memory is a huge cost (bottleneck) to performance.

Specifically I am talking about accelerators on the I/O. PS5 seems to be far more advanced in this respect as it has the following:

DMA controller (12 channels)
Coherency Engines
Cache Scrubbers

Other examples, as mentioned, include:

Nvidia's Tensor Cores
RT Cores

And whatever AMD calls their own dedicated RT transistors in their RDNA2 GPUs.

It seems MS have played a fools game and have been blinded by their pursuit of higher compute at the expense of the above! Cerny/Sony may have played a blinder here and beaten them all ends up, seriously. Will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

Exactly. Accelerator cores and their focus on minimising communication cost are exactly the reason Nvidia have traditionally outperformed AMD cards at substantially less TFlops. We are likely to see way smaller disparity in performance that what the raw TFlops figures suggests combined with substantially superior IO. I think the games on PS5 are gonna surpass all our expectations. On Xbox, we'll get more Bleeding Edge and Sea of Thieves streaming to over 2 billion gamers. Woweee

 

[mckmas8808]

A lot of misinformation here, the xsx ram setup provides superior performance, otherwise ms could of gone for the same 448gb/s setup as the PS5.

The OP is basically is just someones speculation.

I don't think you know what you are talking about.

 

[mckmas8808]

This is bullshit. They arent that close in power. PS5 gets handidly beat in most areas of both consoles. We all know the best thing about the PS5 is the SSD and even that isnt much to brag about when both consoles will have them.

18% difference.

PS4 and Xbox One was a 40% difference. You do the math. Sorry bro.

 

[bitbydeath]

Yeah he is a tech guy, but hes been a very loyal sony contractor, if you cant spot his PR speak over the years then you must be very naive.
The ps4, pro and ps5 all have flaws (the ps5 less though) and cerny never speaks of them, because be under no illusions that cerny is trying to sell you a playstation console.

Not talking about the negatives isn’t the same as lying about positives though.

The latter he is not known for.

 

[Entroyp]

A lot of misinformation here, the xsx ram setup provides superior performance, otherwise ms could of gone for the same 448gb/s setup as the PS5.

The OP is basically is just someones speculation.

I really want to hear the real deal on the SX memory setup. I’m sure there’s some sacrifices needed when using the full 16 GB but it must be nowhere near as bad as in the article.

Plus, I would like to know who added the bandwidth both chips and call it a day

 

[bitbydeath]

I bet MS claim the same thing.

They haven’t yet.

 

[SleepDoctor]

Sony warriors should watch this, warning! this will be hard to swallow.

Watch from 7:20 to 12:00

them spins tho

 

[TheGreatYosh]

Man, these posts are so familiar to the Xbox One launch. Pretty soon we're going to be seeing people claiming that there's a discrete GPU in the PSU.

Sony would never release a console with a disgusting power brick. Thanks for reminding me how trash the Xbox One was.

 

[Sosokrates]

Interleaved memory configurations for the SX's asymmetric memory configuration, an averaged value and the PS5's symmetric memory configuration... You can see that, overall, the PS5 has the edge in pure, consistent throughput...

This part its just straight up conjecture, Microsoft have not said exactly how there ram setup works.

This cortecs person seems to be biased against xbox and for sony, he is just making shit up that makes the xsx seem worse and the PS5 seem better.
Its complete bullshit. Its worrying the length he has gone to trying make the ps5 seem better. Hes probably a shill.

 

[DForce]

So one car can speed at 100mph over a 25 foot track and the other car can go 200mph over a 25 foot track. Yeah, one got there twice as fast but both got there almost instantly

That's not how it works.

Large data needs to be there within 0.45 milliseconds (while the player is turning the camera or moving at fast pace).

PS5 SSD can get there within that time frame
XsX SSD would need double that amount of that time.

To lighten the load (asset quality), developers would need to reduce the size of the file so that the XsX SSD can get there within that time frame.

 

[mckmas8808]

This part its just straight up conjecture, Microsoft have not said exactly how there ram setup works.

Some of the conjecture is based on how computing works. I'd LOVE to hear MS themselves explain it though.

 

[Ascend]

You need to reread the article. It never says only 7.5GB is left becuase of OS functions.

Then explain to me what this means;

The SX has 2.5 GB reserved for system functions and we don't know how much the PS5 reserves for that similar functionality but it doesn't matter - the Xbox SX either has only 7.5 GB of interleaved memory operating at 560 GB/s for game utilisation before it has to start "lowering" the effective bandwidth of the memory below that of the PS5...