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The Playstation Phone is Real [Up: Sony Ericsson Comments, Feb Announce Likely p.919]

If they're hyping it as "the most anticipated reveal of the last decade," it shouldn't be anything but a phone SKU of PSP2. And we all know that a major corporation like SE would never overhype an event, right?

Seriously, though, a PSPgo phone? Who the fuck would want an expensive smartphone version of a gaming system that's dead everywhere but Japan? And a PSPhone that has proprietary hardware and can't run any actual PSP games is every bit as stupid.
 

Sipowicz

Banned
the reveal of the psp phone at a mobile phone conference lends credence to it being seperate from the psp2

the psp2 is going to have to have a massive reveal, at e3 or tgs or something. if they were the same then the psphone would spoil the surprise
 

Avtomat

Member
Father_Brain said:
If they're hyping it as "the most anticipated reveal of the last decade," it shouldn't be anything but a phone SKU of PSP2. And we all know that a major corporation like SE would never overhype an event, right?

Seriously, though, a PSPgo phone? Who the fuck would want an expensive smartphone version of a gaming system that's dead everywhere but Japan?

Only to French bloggers and news outlets? Why would you launch such a seminal device on a region by region announcement. It would make sense for a global announcement then a region by region roll out.

Not PSP2 related is my first thought. Hopefully I am wrong and other news sites pick it up as well.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
I agree SCE wouldn't let SE steal a march on them on any PSP2-related announcement.

Let's wait and see if any mysterious SCE event(s) pop up on the radar in the same timeframe. If none does, then...


colinisation said:
Only to French bloggers and news outlets? Why would you launch such a seminal device on a region by region announcement. It would make sense for a global announcement then a region by region roll out.

PSP2-related or not, I am sure that if this particular event is for France only, it would be one of a number of such events around the world. Perhaps one of a number of local events for press coming with or after a main conference somewhere else.
 
colinisation said:
Only to French bloggers and news outlets? Why would you launch such a seminal device on a region by region announcement. It would make sense for a global announcement then a region by region roll out.

Not PSP2 related is my first thought. Hopefully I am wrong and other news sites pick it up as well.

I'm not predicting that this announcement will be PSP2-related, mind you. I just don't see how a non-PSP2-based PSPhone could be anything other than a hilariously ill-conceived trainwreck. (And the design of the invite strongly implies that this thing will be launched with full PlayStation branding - not, as some had speculated, just as a high-end smartphone that plays some PlayStation games as a value-added feature.)
 
Father_Brain said:
I'm not predicting that this announcement will be PSP2 related, mind you. I just don't see how a non-PSP2-based PSPhone could be anything other than a hilariously ill-conceived trainwreck.
don't underestimate brainless morons following a brand hype trend.
 
gofreak said:
...*gulp* maybe PS Phone isn't PSP2 related, or at least, not a 'full' embodiment of it.

Like I've been saying this whole time. :lol Whether or not there's ultimately a phone version of "the" "PSP2" (scare quotes for full range of variance in terms of what those terms might ultimately represent) the Sony Ericsson product we've seen doesn't fit with the fairly consistent descriptions of the PSP-successor platform as a technical monster that's months away from actually having a locked-down hardware fab.

Father_Brain said:
Seriously, though, a PSPgo phone? Who the fuck would want an expensive smartphone version of a gaming system that's dead everywhere but Japan?

There are prices that I (well, before two weeks ago anyway) would've paid for an Android phone that just happened to also play PSP games, albeit probably not many that would also have been remotely conceivable.

However, the idea of Sony Ericsson attempting to distinguish itself from the market leaders (HTC, Motorola, etc.) in Android phones by building a phone that focuses around gaming makes a certain amount of sense (especially if they can leverage some kind of software for it) and using the Playstation brand for such an effort would make a lot of sense in promoting such an effort. (And it fits with SE's previous phones that leverage Sony brands, like the Walkman etc.)

Father_Brain said:
I just don't see how a non-PSP2-based PSPhone could be anything other than a hilariously ill-conceived trainwreck.

Generous answer: it's the start of an ongoing line of "Playstation phones" that attempt to leverage the brand in the mobile space going forward and which will be supplemented by a PSP2Phone down the line.
 
Perhaps there will be a lot of attention at the VGAs on this.. whatever this is. Could explain why another big game announcement needs its own separate event.

I still believe that this will not be haphazardly branded Playstation, without being related to the main platform.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
charlequin said:
Like I've been saying this whole time. :lol Whether or not there's ultimately a phone version of "the" "PSP2" (scare quotes for full range of variance in terms of what those terms might ultimately represent) the Sony Ericsson product we've seen doesn't fit with the fairly consistent descriptions of the PSP-successor platform as a technical monster that's months away from actually having a locked-down hardware fab.

That line of reasoning doesn't hold up as well now we've had leaked pictures of PSP2. You've said that SE would hardly have prototypes of a PSP2 related phone at this stage if it wasn't going to be released for 9-12 months, but there are prototypes of PSP2 out there (which itself won't be out til late next year)..so why wouldn't they? In terms of technical monstrosity, the design we've seen of the PS Phone seems very similar in terms of size as the PSP2 in its shots, and there's the obvious interface coincidences that have already been pointed out.

If SE is on its own announcing this product in Dec, I would say it's the first solid indicator that would directly support the idea that the product is not PSP2-related. But I do not think there's been other such indicators to date.
 

Takao

Banned
If this thing has separate hardware that's unrelated to both the PSP, and PSP2, who is going to develop games for it?
 

Suzzopher

Member
I wouldn't say I have been waiting ten years for this Pierre:lol But I would certainly be open to a PlayStation phone, if it's based on PSP2. If it's PSP? No thanks.
 
Takao said:
If this thing has separate hardware that's unrelated to both the PSP, and PSP2, who is going to develop games for it?

Nobody knows for sure what hardware is inside.

If Sony has grown a brain recently, this phone should have the dedicated psp2 hardware inside and be able to run all psp2 titles. There is no reason for SCE to be involved otherwise.
 

Sipowicz

Banned
gofreak said:
OR...

...*gulp* maybe PS Phone isn't PSP2 related, or at least, not a 'full' embodiment of it. But I'd rather not think about that :lol

Anyway, do we know anything about this invite? Is it a general press conference or a private event or is it part of a larger event, or..?


i was saying that to you in another thread and you just dismissed it. there's always been some pretty key differences in the controls for both systems.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Sipowicz said:
i was saying that to you in another thread and you just dismissed it. there's always been some pretty key differences in the controls for both systems.

I dismissed it as unlikely because it didn't (and does not) make sense, but more importantly because there was nothing to signal that we should expect it to be a separate platform, but quite a few hints/coincidences to suggest there was a relationship. Afterall, Sony could well do things that don't make sense, but the information we had wasn't supporting the conclusion you came to.

The difference in terms of controls between the system are nothing a few (reasonable) rules about usage would not address e.g. rules about the number of buttons that can be used simultaneously with the touchpad, or about simultaneous usage of both analog sticks and touchpad. The different arrangement would suggest or require certain conditions of use, but it is a different arrangement of the same constituent components which any way you slice it is an uncanny coincidence.

I'm not an unreasonable person, I'm acknowledging that this particular turn of events, if it is a sole SE event on its own, would be a strong signal that there is a separation of concerns between the two platforms, but at the same time, I think it's the first such indication.
 
gofreak said:
You've said that SE would hardly have prototypes of a PSP2 related phone at this stage if it wasn't going to be released for 9-12 months, but there are prototypes of PSP2 out there (which itself won't be out til late next year)..so why wouldn't they?

Pretty much every rumor we've received about PSP2 development hardware in the wild talks about non-final development-kit hardware (not semi-finished working prototype of consumer hardware) and comes along with stories of hardware that is running too hot to actually work in a PSP Go/slide-phone form factor. You would have to ignore the hardware details in the PSP2 rumors (and the way that the early heat rumors were specifically reiterated in the later rumor about the sketchy PSP2 dev hardware photos) to actually draw the conclusion that these rumors were talking about the same device.

Similarly, I made the point about announcement timeframes way back when this thread was starting out: smartphone models get announced a month or two in advance at most, after hardware is already 100% locked down; gaming hardware platforms get announced at least eight months in advance, at a point where final hardware design is still in flux. If we were talking about a "PSP2 platform," SE wouldn't be sending out handsets to people yet; they'd be in relatively early R&D to put together handsets that'd be finalized eight months from now when the system was nearing its actual release. On the other hand, if this were just a single specific phone unrelated to whatever plans might exist for a "PSP2 phone" down the line, a leaked prototype phone in late October suggested a reveal of the actual phone device within the next two months, and, well... here we are.

Takao said:
If this thing has separate hardware that's unrelated to both the PSP, and PSP2, who is going to develop games for it?

If it is that (and it's not just PSP guts shoved into an Android phone) it's probably just some bog-standard SOC that you'd see in a normal Android phone, and it's part of some initiative to drive greater game development on the Android platform.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
charlequin said:
Pretty much every rumor we've received about PSP2 development hardware in the wild talks about non-final development-kit hardware (not semi-finished working prototype of consumer hardware)

I see two devices in leaked shots, both of which look like prototypes probably for testing and development purposes. If the two were sharing the same platform, I think some PSP2 devs would have access to both pieces of hardware for testing from a reasonably early stage. Afterall, there'd be issues presumably specific to the phone about its operating environment that the parties involved would probably want to thoroughly test with the help of a couple of developers.

charlequin said:
and comes along with stories of hardware that is running too hot to actually work in a PSP Go/slide-phone form factor.

There was one such story, but that doesn't necessarily mean they don't ultimately intend to have or support slider designs when final/cooler hardware is available. Afterall, switching to a different design for dev test units because such units weren't holding up reliably due to heat issues wouldn't necessarily inform us about their intentions for final designs (or what final designs could be supported).


charlequin said:
Similarly, I made the point about announcement timeframes way back when this thread was starting out: smartphone models get announced a month or two in advance at most, after hardware is already 100% locked down; gaming hardware platforms get announced at least eight months in advance, at a point where final hardware design is still in flux. If we were talking about a "PSP2 platform," SE wouldn't be sending out handsets to people yet; they'd be in relatively early R&D to put together handsets that'd be finalized eight months from now when the system was nearing its actual release.

This is a better point, and I can see the validity of it in the context of ordinary smartphones. However, as an alternative suggestion, I think if this was a PSP2 device, it wouldn't be a regular smartphone from a development point of view, it would have an unconventional mix of operating systems and software. It would require a certain amount of development and testing and, I think, the involvement of at least some subset of probably first party developers to help iron out runtime issues and the like. I certainly don't think it would be something they'd start testing with prototypes a couple of months before release as with an ordinary phone.

charlequin said:
On the other hand, if this were just a single specific phone unrelated to whatever plans might exist for a "PSP2 phone" down the line, a leaked prototype phone in late October suggested a reveal of the actual phone device within the next two months, and, well... here we are.

True, but we're not far off a PSP2 reveal either. Smartphones are ordinarily announced within short range of release, but again, this wouldn't be a typical smartphone. If it was a PSP2 device, Sony would have to choose between announcing PSP2 within a normal kind of timeframe for a games machine (i.e. in the next month or two), or announce it with smartphone type timing. Or announce the PSP2 and keep quite about the mobile side until later. But why do that? Presumably they'd want to broadcast their wider strategy from the start - and thus naturally the phone's announcement would precede its release by a more substantial margin than is typical for phones.

Like I say, though, if this IS just a Sony Ericsson concern, this event on December, if there's no other preceding or coincidental events involving SCE or Sony, then of course that would be a strong indication that this was just a SE thing, just for a device coming out in a couple of months.
 
gofreak said:
I see two devices in leaked shots, both of which look like prototypes probably for testing and development purposes.

We're explicitly told what the device in the lousy leaked PSP2 photos is: part of the devkit. Not really equivalent to the phone device in this thread's OP.

There was one such story, but that doesn't necessarily mean they don't ultimately intend to have or support slider designs when final/cooler hardware is available.

The point is that the device in the OP is a near-final design in a very compact phone form factor, which would not be possible with hardware that's still in the present running too hot in a full-sized handheld casing.

It would require a certain amount of development and testing and, I think, the involvement of at least some subset of probably first party developers to help iron out runtime issues and the like.

Sure, but then it'd see a development process more similar to what normal consoles and handhelds see -- i.e. you run games on PCs using a provided SDK or on devkit hardware for the vast majority of your development process and probably only get to see your game on final hardware in the window right before launch.

True, but we're not far off a PSP2 reveal either.

Yeah, and it'll be interesting to see a) when we actually get that and b) how Sony chooses to position it (in terms of both its relationship to whatever this is, to the 3DS, and to existing smartphone platforms.)
 
If this is not a PSP2Phone where the fuck are the company synergies that Stringer was supposed to bring? Who the hell would call a PSP1phone the most anticipated presentation in the decade at this stage?
 
Operations said:
If this is not a PSP2Phone where the fuck are the company synergies that Stringer was supposed to bring? Who the hell would call a PSP1phone the most anticipated presentation in the decade at this stage?

That's my feeling as well. If this happens the way it looks like it could, Sony is a ridiculously mismanaged company.
 

DiscoJer

Member
Byakuya769 said:
That's my feeling as well. If this happens the way it looks like it could, Sony is a ridiculously mismanaged company.

Add to this Sony's e-book/e-reader division, too.

Sony was pretty much a pioneer in e-books, and their latest model is pretty slick, too. But where is the integration with other Sony platforms?

It's a pretty big industry, too, or getting to be one. You should be able to read and buy books from the Sony store on a Sony e-reader, or a Sony phone, or a Sony gaming device. And vice-versa, the comics you buy for the PSP should be readable on the e-reader
 
Operations said:
If this is not a PSP2Phone where the fuck are the company synergies that Stringer was supposed to bring? Who the hell would call a PSP1phone the most anticipated presentation in the decade at this stage?

Seriously. Sony: If the rumors are true and PSP2's specs haven't been finalized enough to unveil a phone SKU for it, then don't bother announcing a PSPhone until it's possible to announce one that can fully leverage a new hardware platform. A PSP1-based or proprietary-hardware-based PlayStation phone will satisfy no one, confuse consumers, tarnish both the PlayStation brand and the PlayStation Phone concept, and make the speculated cross-hardware PSP2 strategy a much harder sell.
 

M3d10n

Member
gofreak said:
I see two devices in leaked shots, both of which look like prototypes probably for testing and development purposes. If the two were sharing the same platform, I think some PSP2 devs would have access to both pieces of hardware for testing from a reasonably early stage. Afterall, there'd be issues presumably specific to the phone about its operating environment that the parties involved would probably want to thoroughly test with the help of a couple of developers.
I haven't seen a PSP dev kit myself, but if they are anything like the DS dev kits, the "unit" is mostly an empty shell (containing only screen, speakers and buttons) the actual hardware being inside the dev kit mini-tower (which houses the cart slot/UMD drive).
 

Lonely1

Unconfirmed Member
This is how PSP dev kits looks like.

psp_dev_kit.jpg
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
charlequin said:
We're explicitly told what the device in the lousy leaked PSP2 photos is: part of the devkit. Not really equivalent to the phone device in this thread's OP.



The point is that the device in the OP is a near-final design in a very compact phone form factor, which would not be possible with hardware that's still in the present running too hot in a full-sized handheld casing.



Sure, but then it'd see a development process more similar to what normal consoles and handhelds see -- i.e. you run games on PCs using a provided SDK or on devkit hardware for the vast majority of your development process and probably only get to see your game on final hardware in the window right before launch.


How do we know the phone device isn't being used for test/debug purposes like the PSP2 unit?

In terms of design and size, as I said, its form factor - width and height - seems very similar to the PSP2 unit. And it's notably thicker than a regular Sony Ericsson phone.

On your last point, we already know there's PSP2 test/debug units out there in at least one form factor. I'm making the point that if there was a phone version of this, it's probable there would also be test/debug units of it released to some devs for the same purposes. I think because of the mix of platforms suggested and the technicalities involved there, and perhaps also interface design issues, it would need to have prototypes out a lot earlier than in a typical smartphone dev cycle.

I wouldn't put too much stock into what you might see as the final-ness of the design. The fact that it has a logo on the back is certainly not a big deal.

I'm not very convinced that there's any strong indications in the presence or form of that device that run counter to the suggestion of it being related. However I think a related SE event in December in the absence of others or preceding announcements from SCE would be by far the more convincing indication - and IMO, really the first such indicator.
 

Lazy8s

The ghost of Dreamcast past
That earlier version of 3DMarkMobile 2.0 has been revealed as having considerable compatibility/bugginess issues, used in the Adreno 205 vs. SGX540 benchmark. A current version reflects performance around twice as high as its old scores for the SGX540 using the same SGX drivers.
 
Byakuya769 said:
That's my feeling as well. If this happens the way it looks like it could, Sony is a ridiculously mismanaged company.

OFC this will be a phone with PSP1 tech, with games sold through PSS. As if PSPGo was not proof that Sony has no idea how to compete with Nintendo/Apple. This is just another part of their "let's throw shit around and see what sticks" strategy that started with PSP Go.
 

thcsquad

Member
It looks this SE device will be just an Android phone with some game-related extras, and won't set the world on fire. I'm hopeful that they're just testing the waters or priming for a more ambitious PSPhone project, for after Android matures for gaming a little bit.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
More interestingly from 2.3, it seems to expose various gaming nubbins generally.

http://developer.android.com/sdk/api_diff/9/changes.html

i.e. thumb_l, thumb_r, a, b, c, x, y, z, l1, r1, l2, r2, start, select...

Meaning devs can use these features on the Playstation Phone - or any other phone that added compliant game controls - as a standard part of Android. They won't have to license something from Sony or even get a special SDK from them to use the game controls in regular Android games.

Begs the question of what role the Playstation framework/app/whatever plays in all this. Perhaps just special DRM so certain games can only be played on the Playstation Phone, or perhaps for exclusive linking to PSN etc.
 

Lonely1

Unconfirmed Member
Mmm. Very interesting Gofreak. As other have pointer out, SCE has allowed in the past for some of their IPs to be used by a general device class rather than Sony exclusive products. From PC games to their Java ME efforts. Perhaps this device will not have exclusives per se? SCE developed games should still benefit the Z-system almost as exclusives since this device is still fairly unique in the Android market; and it will also benefit from a platform wide android gaming push done with 2.3+ rather than being by themselves.

But I don't see Sony allowing stuff like PsOne classic and PSN to be playable on non Sony devices.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Lonely1 said:
Mmm. Very interesting Gofreak. As other have pointer out, SCE has allowed in the past for some of their IPs to be used by a general device class rather than Sony exclusive products. From PC games to their Java ME efforts. Perhaps this device will not have exclusives per se? SCE developed games should still benefit the Z-system almost as exclusives since this device is still fairly unique in the Android market; and it will also benefit from a platform wide android gaming push done with 2.3+ rather than being by themselves.

But I don't see Sony allowing stuff like PsOne classic and PSN to be playable on non Sony devices.

Maybe the playstation 'stuff' is to allow some proprietary software run, like PSone classics.

But the psone emulator will be easily able to support these same controls now.

Putting aside my own feelings about platform/software harmonization, this is actually quite significant in so far as it is a completely open, Playstation branded device. Anyone will be able to make, if you like, 'playstation games' on this without going through Sony. It's quite odd, because on the one hand you'll have Sony continue to pursue a closed platform strategy, but on the other, they're putting their name and hardware to the support of another, separate open gaming platform. At the very least, this device represents 'Playstation' coming out to support Google's generally exposed new gaming capabilities in Android, making an exemplary incarnation of a the kind of device this new stuff in Android describes. Playstation supporting a non-Playstation platform, an open platform - a platform that in the large is competing with their own (and in a much more intimate way with stuff like the minis strategy). It's as if they turned around and started making Playstation branded gaming PCs in addition to consoles...it is basically that significant. What's the end-game to all this? Strange times.
 

Lonely1

Unconfirmed Member
Well, it certainly sounds a lot better to me if this is part of a joint effort to pull Android out of the gaming Ghetto than a separate a PsOne Phone with some games by SE.
 
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