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The problem with review embargos and preorders

J

JumpJeff84

Member
My biggest pet peeve so far this gen is the way publishers enforce strict review embargos while at the same time using tactics to actively encourage preorders.

For a good example, see Borderlands. As most people know, this game was short-shipped, and supply was tight on the 360 version. Myself, I still haven't had any luck getting a hold of a copy. Logic would dictate that if I'd had the foresight to preorder I'd have been able to get the game day 1 no problem. Thing is, there were no reviews posted online (other than one two line blurb from the official Xbox magazine) online until pretty much the day it came out.

In the weeks leading up to the game's release, I actively tried to educate myself on the game, searching for hands-on impressions and opinions from game journalists who's opinions I trusted. Nothing. I heard people on podcasts mention that they'd been playing it, but they shyed away from offering anything even closely resembling an opinion- obviously because they'd been asked by 2K to not talk about the game until it was out.

So my question is, how the fuck is this system supposed to work? Honestly, I really don't have a problem with preordering something if I'm reasonably sure it'll be good. But you really can't expect me to plunk down cash ahead of time without at least hearing some advance word on whether or not the game is a buggy piece of shit, especially with a new IP.

So publishers- You want me to preorder just to guarantee I get a copy, and to make sure I get a special limited item, or a bonus weapon, or a multiplayer mode, but you're asking me to use blind faith and believe you when you say it's worth buying?

Fuck you.

Put your money where your mouth is and let reviews come out a week or two early so I can make an educated decision. 'Day of release' review embargos make me suspicious- it's like you've got something to hide.

I know reviews aren't the be all end all, but they can be a good guide. let me use them should I choose to do so.

And I'm curious- any Gaffers like me who held off on preordering Borderlands, mostly because there were no reviews? Would you have preordered it if there had been reviews out a week or two ahead of time? I would have. How much of the allcoation problems could have been avoided in this situation?

And hey- I know everyone's not guilty of this. Batman AA and Uncharted 2 are two recent examples where the publisher allowed reviews to come out early- no doubt because they knew they had a good product.

What do you guys think?
 
I agree for the most part, but I think that the whole pre-order thing stems mainly from the retailer. That's essentially free money in their pocket, and, in most cases, every store get plenty of copies of a game on release. The only shortage I've seen recently is Borderlands, which honestly isn't that bad around where I live. One instance I remember was Civilization Revolution. I couldn't find a copy for upwards of a month in North Florida, which like Borderlands, was released by 2K Games.
 
I agree for the most part, but I think that the whole pre-order thing stems mainly from the retailer. That's essentially free money in their pocket, and, in most cases, every store get plenty of copies of a game on release.[/QUOTE

I don't know about that...EB/Gamestop is pretty notorious about not having enough copies for walk-in customers.

A lot of times, their buyers use preorders as their main metric for what to buy.
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An embargo is necessary to ensure outlets don't rush to get a review out the door first.

An embargo that goes up on the day of the release is just a ploy to get as much money from early adopters and smacks of desperation on the part of the publisher.
 
Whoompthereitis said:
I agree for the most part, but I think that the whole pre-order thing stems mainly from the retailer. That's essentially free money in their pocket, and, in most cases, every store get plenty of copies of a game on release.[/QUOTE

I don't know about that...EB/Gamestop is pretty notorious about not having enough copies for walk-in customers.

A lot of times, their buyers use preorders as their main metric for what to buy.
Click to expand...


they underbuy on purpose because most of the games they sell are used games. why are they going to waste money on non-presold new games (no risk) when they can just wait for the used games to come back their way -- which most people go to their store for anyway and they make the biggest profit off of
Click to expand...
 
A publisher never wants to short ship a product. Why would they ever want to limit selling in a product when they get paid by the retailer for each unit they ship? No publisher would do this in an attempt to "generate buzz" or "push pre-ordering products" because the risk is too great.

The reality is, in today's economy retailers are ordering less inventory and keeping their weeks on hand tighter so they dont get stuck with slow moving product (especially going into holiday where every inventory dollar counts). Retailers are using preorders as one indication of how much product to bring in, so if preorders are low they are more conservative with their initial inventory purchases.

Net/net if you want to blame somewhere for Borderlands being out of stock, blame the retailers.
 
Er, is EB/GS/BB forcing you to open the box in the store, thereby preventing a return? You can always get your money back on a preorder (or transfer it to something else).
 
I really don't care about the review embargo, as regardless of that, I'm not going to pre-order anything that is produced in mass quantities, and for that matter can theoretically be distributed digitally. I like to speak with my wallet. If I deem it worthwhile, I'll buy it at full price, or I'll wait for a sale, or I won't buy it at all. If I buy the game new at all, they should thank their lucky stars for one more sale. I'm not going to take a leap of faith and do them a solid just because I think they're a swell bunch of people when I know that I should be able to purchase the game at the time of my choosing if I think it's worth it. And that's the way it should be.
 
The worst part is that a lot of times, EB/Gamestop will be the only brick and mortar to carry some niche titles...assuming of course you preorder it.
 
I rent every game I am interested in.

If I like it, I buy it.

I don't trust reviews.

Renting gives me all the info I need to decide to purchase or not.
 
Embargos are absolutely retarded. Even more so when they are release day embargos. They pretty much cement the fact that "game journalists" are just extensions of the publisher's PR department.
 
I, too, was upset by the lack of pre-release coverage on Borderlands, but I took a risk on it anyways.

I am so glad I did, as the many hours I spent with my friends online was quite rewarding. Also, I don't get where you people live that say this game is rare, as I see plenty of copies on PS3 and 360 everywhere I go.
 
Net/net if you want to blame somewhere for Borderlands being out of stock, blame the retailers.
Click to expand...

I see what you're saying, but in this case I blame 2K just as much. Had there been reviews out, I would have preordered it, and got the game day 1.

Er, is EB/GS/BB forcing you to open the box in the store, thereby preventing a return? You can always get your money back on a preorder (or transfer it to something else).
Click to expand...

No, no they're not. And I sometimes do preorder stuff I'm not sure of, 'just in case', and I sometimes cancel the preorders. But it's a pain in the ass. And for some, it's even more of a pain in the ass than it is for me- there's an EB at the mall I eat lunch at every day. It's really not that big of a deal for me to pop in there.

Still though, let's get back to Borderlands- would EB/GS have bought more copies had the reviews been made available earlier? much like Polyh3dron, they were probably gunshy do to how poorly BIA:HH performed (I think it sold poorly!)

Had Borderlands reviews (which were generally pretty positive) been out sooner, both the publisher and retailer may have been able to anticipate the need to have more copies available.

Did 2K not have faith in this game's critical reception? I don't know- they were obsessive about protecting GTAIV right up until the second it came out, if I remember correctly and they had to have thought that one was gonna do well.

I think Bioshock had early reviews out though...
 
Doytch said:
An embargo is necessary to ensure outlets don't rush to get a review out the door first.

An embargo that goes up on the day of the release is just a ploy to get as much money from early adopters and smacks of desperation on the part of the publisher.
Click to expand...
It's sort of like some movies that aren't screened for critics in time for release. They want to get asses in seats that first weekend.

I do agree reviews for games should go up at least a week before it releases. A movie is $10.00. A game is $60.00...
 
Zachack said:
Er, is EB/GS/BB forcing you to open the box in the store, thereby preventing a return? You can always get your money back on a preorder (or transfer it to something else).
Click to expand...
But why is it in my best interest to place the pre-order to begin with?
 
I applaud the OP for posting this. Long over due. I haven't preordered a game in a long time. I hardly buy games that come out day 1 anymore. I want thorough hands on impressions from people who have played the game. Yes, I get hyped for games. But, I don't let the hype swade me until I know I'm getting a quality product.
 
devilhawk said:
That's nice.
Click to expand...
Provides perspective as to why Publishers still do it. If you have a proven track record and your game looks great from all the screenshots/trailers/previews then yes people will preorder - like for example FF vs XIII.
without the whole preview part, as that game barely exists right now
 
Reviews that go up the same day or a day before release should be done in with. I preorderd Brutal Legend and liked the demo but after reading the reviews I decided it was not for me and I would wait to get it on the cheap but it was too late to cancel my order because it was already shipped. Reviews for a game should take place at least a week before release.
 
Just wait a few weeks to buy games. There will be a wider range of review and user opinions by then, someone will have the game on sale, and most launch bugs will be fixed by then....
 
The embargo-preorder combination benefits everyone except consumers. Publishers, developers, review sites, and retailers all win. A smart consumer's best bet is to wait.
 
Don't believe the hype. Seriously. Do your homework and have a bit of patients. And for godsakes, never pre-order. I have never had a problem with finding games that I wanted. Day 1 or otherwise. Almost all retailers have enough of the "must have" games in stock. I actually love to see clerks at GS look erked when they ask me if I reserved a copy and I say "no", but they have several copies on hand to sell. Trust me, there is always a place that has the game you want. At least in the city. If you live in the country, or Canada, well....you're screwed. :D
 
Steve Youngblood said:
But why is it in my best interest to place the pre-order to begin with?
Click to expand...


That's what I don't understand. I mean, if there's a game I really want that I will buy regardless of how it's reviewed, then a preorder makes sense. Otherwise, what's the point? If the quality of the game is a factor (as determined by reviews and the like) then why go ahead and buy it as soon as possible? I'll take my sweet time until I feel the price is low enough and my interest is high enough. I also consider how many great games I own that I haven't finished, or how many great games released last generation that I've yet to play.
 
Don't believe the hype. Seriously. Do your homework and have a bit of patients. And for godsakes, never pre-order. I have never had a problem with finding games that I wanted. Day 1 or otherwise. Almost most retailers have the game in stock. I actually love to see clerks at GS look erked when they ask me if I reserved a copy and I say "no", but they have several copies on hand to sell. Trust me, there is always a place that has the game you want. At least in the city. If you live in the country, or Canada, well....you're screwed.
Click to expand...


Still haven't found Demon's Souls. Said fuck it and ordered it from Amazon yesterday.
 
Actually, I was in the same boat as you. Except I actually pre-ordered but I was thinking of canceling it because I was looking at getting Ratchet And Clank instead.

So I did a little research on the net, expecting to see at least couple reviews seeing as it only 3 day's away from release. Before I could make a decision they shipped my game. I don't entirely regret it because I'm actually quite addicted to the game but thats besides the point.

The ironic part, R&C reviews are already coming out.
 
I actually think the GAF cycle is a bigger problem (on my purchases) then review embargos, tbh.

the GAF cycle:

release:
"Best. Game. Ever"

one month later:
"Meh-est.Game. Ever."

months later:
"worst. game. ever."

year later:
"LTTP"

feel free to replace "ever" with "GOTY" btw.



There is no point is asking for a more critical view among professionals when the 'critical community' appears to be incapable of making any critical stand and stick with it.


Still don't like review embargos to or beyond the actual release though.
 
Vilix said:
Don't believe the hype. Seriously. Do your homework and have a bit of patients. And for godsakes, never pre-order. I have never had a problem with finding games that I wanted. Day 1 or otherwise. Almost most retailers have the game in stock. I actually love to see clerks at GS look erked when they ask me if I reserved a copy and I say "no", but they have several copies on hand to sell. Trust me, there is always a place that has the game you want. At least in the city. If you live in the country, or Canada, well....you're screwed. :D
Click to expand...
Pre-ordering is not always about finding a game on release day. Some games have some great pre-order incentives and places like Amazon give you a added bonus like $10 credit so if you know for sure that game is absolutely for you like a sequel to a favorite then its worth it to pre-order.
 
THE Caffeinated said:
I would preorder FF vs XIII tommorow if I had the opportunity to even if the reviews weren't out until a week after release.
Click to expand...

Well I'd let Kristen Bell suck my dick without asking around for reviews on her dick sucking prowess, but if you said a person is coming around later and want to know if I will preorder a dick sucking, I might want to hold off for more information. It might be a dude. Or Lady Gaga.

Do you understand my analogy?
 
If I'm going to pre-order, I do it risk-free on Amazon and only for developers with established track records. Otherwise, I wait until I can sort through the opinions of actual people and/or play a demo. I don't trust the enthusiast press enough to buy a pack of gum on their recommendation, much less a game. I have no problem buying a game well after Day One!!1!
 
Really bad call by 2K to restrict reviews (and previews). The Gearbox guys wanted to push as much info out as possible, due to it being a new IP and wanting coverage. But I guess it's 2K's policy to make everything a secret until release week. Very bad for games like this imo.
 
LQX said:
Pre-ordering is not always about finding a game on release day. Some games have some great pre-order incentives and places like Amazon give you a added bonus like $10 credit so if you know for sure that game is absolutely for you like a sequel to a favorite then its worth it to pre-order.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I think was might have been a little too broad. I remember the GS near me used to give out some really nice golf shirts (not t-shirts, golf shirts) as a permotion for a game. That was years ago though. But, yes, if you're interested in a game that comes with a nice incentive to pre-order then you should definately look into it.
 
Pre-ordering is not always about finding a game on release day. Some games have some great pre-order incentives and places like Amazon give you a added bonus like $10 credit so if you know for sure that game is absolutely for you like a sequel to a favorite then its worth it to pre-order.
Click to expand...

There's another thread going right now about how the new Army of Two game has a multiplayer mode that is only available for preorders- to be unlocked for others a month after the game's release. How much you wanna bet that game will have a release-day embargo? Shit is so fucked...

Proves that preorders matter just as much to publishers as they do to retailers.
 
RedNumberFive said:
Embargos are absolutely retarded. Even more so when they are release day embargos. They pretty much cement the fact that "game journalists" are just extensions of the publisher's PR department.
Click to expand...

While I certainly can't defend every action made by the gaming enthusiast press, to call them extensions of a PR department is just blind ignorance.

Publishers have the press over a barrel. The press need early coverage to drive traffic and ad revenue, and the publishers control that. If the press choose to break embargoes, publishers will take away early access, or perhaps any access. Then the only option they have is to wait until release, buy the game, play it, and review it from there. By then, the release date has (obviously) passed, and you don't care any more because you've likely already made your decision about whether or not to buy it.

If you want more about the real relationship between publishers and games press, read this article from N'Gai Croal back when he was over at Newsweek:

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/leve...er-contempt-towards-the-enthusiast-press.aspx
 
Kilgore Trout said:
That's what I don't understand. I mean, if there's a game I really want that I will buy regardless of how it's reviewed, then a preorder makes sense. Otherwise, what's the point? If the quality of the game is a factor (as determined by reviews and the like) then why go ahead and buy it as soon as possible? I'll take my sweet time until I feel the price is low enough and my interest is high enough. I also consider how many great games I own that I haven't finished, or how many great games released last generation that I've yet to play.
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Well, for me, it's not even about wanting to take my sweet time waiting for a deal. I'm perfectly fine with paying full price if a game is worth it. I might even want the game on day one or two. I'm just not going to make a commitment to it in advance, as these are mass market products.

For me, it's just more about how excited am I about this game to push it up to the top of my play queue. Weeks out for release, regardless of hype, I don't know if I'm going to be able to play any particular game the day it comes out. I might be in the middle of another game I want to finish. I might be swamped with work and social commitments that week. Who knows? But if I'm not going to have the time and/or drive to play a game, I personally get no satisfaction out of having the box there in the shrinkwrap ready to be played. I'm comfortable waiting until I know I want to play it to buy it, which may or not be on day one.
 
divisionbyzorro said:
While I certainly can't defend every action made by the gaming enthusiast press, to call them extensions of a PR department is just blind ignorance.

Publishers have the press over a barrel. The press need early coverage to drive traffic and ad revenue, and the publishers control that. If the press choose to break embargoes, publishers will take away early access, or perhaps any access. Then the only option they have is to wait until release, buy the game, play it, and review it from there. By then, the release date has (obviously) passed, and you don't care any more because you've likely already made your decision about whether or not to buy it.

If you want more about the real relationship between publishers and games press, read this article from N'Gai Croal back when he was over at Newsweek:

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/leve...er-contempt-towards-the-enthusiast-press.aspx
Click to expand...

This is probably a better option. I find a lot of these reviews tainted due to the amount of control PR has, as well as "game journalist's" willingness to accept gifts and go on press junkets. Roger Ebert, probably one of the more well respected film journalists, does not accept freebies, does not go on press junkets, and reviews the movies as he sees them. As long as the game press plays by the rules of the publisher, I frankly can't take any of them seriously.
 
I agree with the OP. I had some trade in credit and put it on Brutal Legend after I played the demo. Then, the day before release day, I find out about the RTS elements in the single player portion of the game and I was like F that. I decided that I'll just pick this up later at a cheaper price.

So I decided to throw my money on Borderlands instead. WELL.. come to find out.. the day before.. ONCE AGAIN I read reviews and they mentioned how much better the game is multiplayer. I am more of a single player type gamer, so I figured this was another game I could wait to drop in price.

Now my money is on Dragon Age. I assume this game is going to be good. Plus I mostly trust Bioware. At least more info is out on that game.

This wait till the day before for a review is bullshit.. at least give sites a chance to talk about the game to give consumers knowledge on what the hell the game is about or what to expect from the game.
 
I have no problem with an Embargo over the reviews. I really don't see Embargoes as the problem, but how easily the gaming "Press" is swayed.

How about we don't offer you the game for free, Instead you have to pay 60$. Still get it a few weeks early and you can post it anytime.
Also no free gifts, You know all those cool products you decorate your office with? Bye
Exclusive hands on time prior, Free passes/flights to press events/conventions, etc.
 
divisionbyzorro said:
While I certainly can't defend every action made by the gaming enthusiast press, to call them extensions of a PR department is just blind ignorance.

Publishers have the press over a barrel.
Click to expand...



Aren't you contradicting yourself?


If the press are at the mercy of the publishers (who have or hire the PR teams). The PR team controls the press. Meaning they are an extension.
 
Don't read reviews and don't preorder games when you've no monetary incentive to do so.

Buy games you know will be good when they release, and with everything else, wait for real impressions over the words of professional enthusiasts who've shown time and again that they are unreliable, either because of corruptness or honest ineptitude.
 
Steve Youngblood said:
Well, for me, it's not even about wanting to take my sweet time waiting for a deal. I'm perfectly fine with paying full price if a game is worth it. I might even want the game on day one or two. I'm just not going to make a commitment to it in advance, as these are mass market products.

For me, it's just more about how excited am I about this game to push it up to the top of my play queue. Weeks out for release, regardless of hype, I don't know if I'm going to be able to play any particular game the day it comes out. I might be in the middle of another game I want to finish. I might be swamped with work and social commitments that week. Who knows? But if I'm not going to have the time and/or drive to play a game, I personally get no satisfaction out of having the box there in the shrinkwrap ready to be played. I'm comfortable waiting until I know I want to play it to buy it, which may or not be on day one.
Click to expand...
The only counters I can provide (and they are the only reason I ever preorder) is if there is some sort of bonus attached to the preorder, like Amazon credit or trade-in gimmicks or something, or if I suspect the game will be niche enough that I only get one shot at it (which is rare).

Recent examples would be preordering the PC version of Borderlands via the Steam deal (I'm not hugely interested in it but am enough to get it at $33) and Demon's Souls, where I didn't preorder and got the last copy (at the time and without having to do any driving) out of multiple stores in my area.

Mostly I just do it if it's a deal. I may not be ready to play it that exact day due to who knows what conditions, but I almost certainly will be at some point in the next month. I just plan ahead.
 
Zachack said:
Recent examples would be preordering the PC version of Borderlands via the Steam deal (I'm not hugely interested in it but am enough to get it at $33)
Click to expand...
I can see that. Though for me (and this doesn't have to apply to you), if it's the deal I'm worried about, then I'll just wait for a post-release sale. There's plenty of stuff to play that I don't even really worry about following pre-order deals. That's subjective, though.
and Demon's Souls, where I didn't preorder and got the last copy (at the time and without having to do any driving) out of multiple stores in my area.
Click to expand...
Again, personally, I don't care about this. I've been tempted by Demon's Soul, but I've been a little more tight on money recently than usual, so I haven't pulled the trigger. Though if I decide to purchase it right now and can't find it, again, I consider it their loss and not mine. There's plenty of great games to play. In this specific case, I'll still sleep well at night not fretting about Atlus's habit of producing 50 copies of a new game.
 
I don't trust any review where the reviewer didn't personally shell out real cash moneys for a retail copy of the game.
 
THE Caffeinated said:
Provides perspective as to why Publishers still do it. If you have a proven track record and your game looks great from all the screenshots/trailers/previews then yes people will preorder - like for example FF vs XIII.
without the whole preview part, as that game barely exists right now
Click to expand...
But Final Fantasy has sucked for years.
 
divisionbyzorro said:
While I certainly can't defend every action made by the gaming enthusiast press, to call them extensions of a PR department is just blind ignorance.

Publishers have the press over a barrel. The press need early coverage to drive traffic and ad revenue, and the publishers control that. If the press choose to break embargoes, publishers will take away early access, or perhaps any access. Then the only option they have is to wait until release, buy the game, play it, and review it from there. By then, the release date has (obviously) passed, and you don't care any more because you've likely already made your decision about whether or not to buy it.

If you want more about the real relationship between publishers and games press, read this article from N'Gai Croal back when he was over at Newsweek:

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/leve...er-contempt-towards-the-enthusiast-press.aspx
Click to expand...

The two statements I bolded are almost self-evidently contradictory.
 
Embargos are horrible, it shows nothing but a lack of confidence on the publisher/developer's part, yet for some reason high quality games are still embargoed.

The gaming press just needs to stop being a bunch of spineless pushovers and start punishing publishers who refuse to play the game the way its meant to be played.

On the other hand, most people aren't going to buy a game until they hear good reviews or good impressions from someone anyway, so the retail effect is probably limited.
 
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