Roddslayer
Member
My favorite move, which wasn't really necessary, was the pole handstand to 180 backflip. I love how Mario moved like a freaking 14 year old Chinese gymnast in SM64.
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the removal of mario's 3D abilities since 64
- Thread starter PowderedToast
- Start date
Galaxy doesn't give you the option to control the camera because most of the time it offers you the best possible angle. Sunshine had the option to freely control it because in some specific levels, the default camera was a total mess.
64 gets pretty dang difficult as soon as you step away from the first level, I never felt challenged with Galaxy to the point that it almost made me feel bad, I have trouble remembering a lot of specifics of that game since it all blows by so fast in a blur, I tried to take my time and absorb it all in but the game just keeps pushing you forward despite the exorbitant amounts of fine craftsmanship that went into every detail.
I missed some of the silly superfluous actions in Sunshine, but ultimately I agreed with its omissions and I loved its additions. Belly hopping felt silly but it was a fun way to get around, it made getting around a big openworld make more sense than his moveset in 64. I didn't care for replacing the Super Metroid wall jumping with what was essentially MegaMan X style wall clinging with a kickoff, but I still often found myself using it while screwing around and climbing the buildings in the main hub. One thing that Sunshine definitely had over 64 was the addition of the spin jump, I don't think I even discovered it until my second playthrough, but I instantly fell in love with it, the elegant method of a quick circular flick of the analog stick felt so right, like I was given a choice between it and a backflip to perform subtly different types of jumps to suit the situation, and the ways it could be combined with other actions like the FLUDD was very clever. Galaxy replaced it with waggle and completely altered its uses so it might as well be considered as dead as the belly dive at that point.
But what should be of most concern to all of us is the overall physics of Mario's movement in these games. People criticize Sunshine for making the jetpack a crutch for platforming, but all it did was give you some extra insurance should you slip up, while Galaxy shoul've been blamed harder for making platforming easier in a less tangible but overall worse way, by sharply increasing the range that Mario can adjust his trajectory in mid-air, adding that auto ledge hopping if you should barely miss a platform, combined with essentially adding a double jump for insurance. It still had the blood of 64 in it, but the direction they were going with his overall simplified almost 100% analog stick based movement was a step in the direction that 3D Land took us in now. I'm far more alarmed by how little variants the analog pad gives you in that game than any omission of abilities, I can perhaps accept the excuse that the 3DS slidepad is total crap and unsuited for advanced 3D platforming precision, but is it true what I'm hearing that 3D World doesn't even have true analog movement while using the gamepad??
I missed some of the silly superfluous actions in Sunshine, but ultimately I agreed with its omissions and I loved its additions. Belly hopping felt silly but it was a fun way to get around, it made getting around a big openworld make more sense than his moveset in 64. I didn't care for replacing the Super Metroid wall jumping with what was essentially MegaMan X style wall clinging with a kickoff, but I still often found myself using it while screwing around and climbing the buildings in the main hub. One thing that Sunshine definitely had over 64 was the addition of the spin jump, I don't think I even discovered it until my second playthrough, but I instantly fell in love with it, the elegant method of a quick circular flick of the analog stick felt so right, like I was given a choice between it and a backflip to perform subtly different types of jumps to suit the situation, and the ways it could be combined with other actions like the FLUDD was very clever. Galaxy replaced it with waggle and completely altered its uses so it might as well be considered as dead as the belly dive at that point.
But what should be of most concern to all of us is the overall physics of Mario's movement in these games. People criticize Sunshine for making the jetpack a crutch for platforming, but all it did was give you some extra insurance should you slip up, while Galaxy shoul've been blamed harder for making platforming easier in a less tangible but overall worse way, by sharply increasing the range that Mario can adjust his trajectory in mid-air, adding that auto ledge hopping if you should barely miss a platform, combined with essentially adding a double jump for insurance. It still had the blood of 64 in it, but the direction they were going with his overall simplified almost 100% analog stick based movement was a step in the direction that 3D Land took us in now. I'm far more alarmed by how little variants the analog pad gives you in that game than any omission of abilities, I can perhaps accept the excuse that the 3DS slidepad is total crap and unsuited for advanced 3D platforming precision, but is it true what I'm hearing that 3D World doesn't even have true analog movement while using the gamepad??
Modern 3D Mario games don't need camera control at all. Not once in my playthrough of the two SMG games did I ever need to adjust the camera, and neither Mario 3D Land. There's no need.
What annoys me more is the need to use a run button, as if an analog stick was never invented.
PokéKong;68887421 said:
What annoys me more is the need to use a run button, as if an analog stick was never invented.
I have said this on gaf multiple times before this thread, 3D mario without the B button ( dive button) is not 3D mario. Its not just the B button by itself, its also the combinations of the dive with all the different jumps. Super mario 64 mario movement was crazy. Also, a lot of people here are forgetting about sunshine. It can also be that those never really exploited sunshine mario movement options, how knows. Sunshine was a loooot crazier than 64, even without water. Sunshine also had the spin jump (you could do a triple jump after landing from a spin jump) and you could also spin at any moment of any jump (gaining the ability of doing a triple jump after landing). Doing that you could do, for example, a normal near to the groung jump, into spin into triple jump. Mario from sunshine was a lot different from 64 mario than what some remember...
I also call the dive button the seal button, and the dive jump the seal jump. Because of marios shape when doing it.
Just had to quote this cuz this is exactly how I feel.
Gonzo The Great
Banned
It's pretty alarming how certain people are now trying to downplay the significance of Super Mario 64 because Nintendo no longer has any use for open world games. Revisionist history at its finest. I've said it once, and I'll said it again: a linear 3D platformer defeats the purpose of having a third dimension in the first place. If your only objective is to get from point A to point B, why does the game need to be in 3D? Are they going to start putting flagpoles in Mario Kart next? While Super Mario 3D Land may be a fun game, the de-emphasis they've placed on exploration makes it feel too familiar and ultimately pointless.
I'm pretty sure people love the void levels from Sunshine because they're the only FLUDDless parts.
Neff
Member
Are you saying we should stop discussing the minutiae of the most popular gaming franchise of all time because each installment is merely a hack job simply thrown together as an afterthought?
Do big words frighten you?
Yeah, I wouldn't say removal of moves is dumbing down when Mario could restore all of his health in 64 by just swimming and then coming back to the surface.
I was just thinking about this very subject the other day. I don't think I've played a 3D platformer that has given you as much movement based freedom as Mario 64. After I finally finished the game, I remember that I kept waiting for another game to come out like it for the N64. And I don't think there has been anything like it since. Sure the newer Mario games have been good, they decided to go a different route with things. Just seeing what acrobatic moves you could accomplish combined with the non-linear nature of Mario 64 is just amazing. I hope someday, somewhere, someone will come out with a worthy continuation of that sort of gameplay. It's funny to think that even though Mario 64 was the first ever real 3D platformer all those years ago, it still may very well be the best. At least in my humble opinion.
Anticitizen One
Banned
WTF miyamoto. Why does he think this is about either doing a 3D land clone or another Galaxy game. What about doing a completely NEW Mario concept?? Or hell if your just going to do follow ups at least throw us Super mario 64 fans a bone
Damn, Nintendo was so far ahead of it's time with Mario 64.
This actually disturbs me a bit. It's considered a SERIES? Which is potentially ONGOING? I thought Galaxy was meant to be one game and 2 was made as a special case because the volume of leftover material that didn't make it in the first? 64-Sunshine-Galaxy is a series, we should be getting the next thing in that sequence, anybody thinking about a Galaxy 3 is severely lacking imagination.
We got a taste of the void levels in Sunshine, we got what we wanted and basically a whole game of that in Galaxy, and then saw what their full potential could be in Galaxy 2, now it is time now to try other things.
I agree that open worlds are the true potential of 3D games, I don't want to see Mario devolve into Crash Bandicoot, and sure it may look like right now they're just the trendy thing to do, but we still haven't seen it done with the Nintendo touch. I want a world full of personality and secrets and style like that in the first Paper Mario, that I can skip around in aimlessly performing acrobatics on rooftops the way I did for hours on end in Isle Delfino.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
True, that is part of it but I don't think it was the only reason. It was also about the simplicity and the way that it was just about getting from a to b without falling down a hole just like the 2d marios.
Hale-XF11
Member
Through the Mario games, I'm seeing Nintendo become more and more conservative with each iteration and it really bothers me. They try so hard to appeal to everyone that Mario games have been relegated to almost being a casual experience or a family party gathering experience, which is not what I look for in a mainline Mario game.