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[ClosingADoor]

I always hate articles that try to paint WWC as the most abused and ignored group in America.

As if Post WWII America's whole suburban/middle class America jumpstart program didn't happen or apply to them.

People don't think about that, they think about themselves. And at the moment they feel like they are being left behind, while everybody is focusing on the issues of other groups. That those other groups have bigger issues then themselves, and those deserve that attention, does not play a role for them as long as they are feeling they are losing their place in society.

I don't see how this is the revenge of the poor and lower class when the super rich are now further entrenched in the government than ever. Trump just put a lot of CEOs in key government positions. I still don't get why people think this election is a win for the little guys.

It isn't. But the perception of Clinton was she was part of the elite they so hated, and Trump was the outsider. Once someone has bought into that, it is very, very hard to convince them otherwise.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Obama got 6 million WWC people insured >_>

 

[Condom]

Don't you live in Europe?

Yeah? I personally know people campaigning for things like fight for 15 in NYC, liberals there are the same as they are here: A joke. 'Let the politicians do their work, compromising everything to death it's the only way, let's be nice to each other bla bla bla'

 

[NetMapel]

I don't see how this is the revenge of the poor and lower class when the super rich are now further entrenched in the government than ever. Trump just put a lot of CEOs in key government positions. I still don't get why people think this election is a win for the little guys. So ridiculous.

 

[Slayven]

I don't see how this is the revenge of the poor and lower class when the super rich are now further entrenched in the government than ever. Trump just put a lot of CEOs in key government positions. I still don't get why people think this election is a win for the little guys. So ridiculous.

I think it is denial, and not wanting to face some hard truths

 

[TestOfTide]

LMAO

Seeing this post from the position of a leftist that sees average liberals doing jack shit but voting, is hilarious. Don't blame us, activism is our gospel. Look inwards for once, it might help. 'Derp vote for our sell-outs or you're irrelevant!!' Keep losing then. Good day.

I like that in your response you didn't answer if you did any voting or campaigning.

And I like that you are implying that everything on the ballot was "sellouts". Tell me what state you were in. Who was running for Governor or US Senate? Who was running for the local offices in your areas? Were THEY all sellouts too?

What about ballot initiatives? Which ones did you have in those states? Were those ballot initiatives all "Sellouts", too?

You claim to be the "real activist" and then afterwards show that you aren't willing to do the BARE MINIMUM to create progress.

And no I don't care what protests and demonstrations you attended if you didn't even vote. No one listens to protesters if those protesters don't show they have the power to actually chcnage elections and they don't have the power to change elections if they aren't campaigning or even trying to vote.

EDIT:

Yeah? I personally know people campaigning for things like fight for 15 in NYC, liberals there are the same as they are here: A joke. 'Let the politicians do their work, compromising everything to death it's the only way, let's be nice to each other bla bla bla'

Okay what country? What did you do in your country to further the progressive causes?

I worked for 550 hours for a democratic campaign in New Hampshire. One of my closest colleagues in that campaign was a Canadian who literally came over to New Hampshire to campaign for Democrats because he cared that much about what happens here.

 

[gabbo]

Obama got 6 million WWC people insured >_>

Yeah, but he's easy to portray as "the other" they so deeply fear. Or be told it's going to cost them more to have it.

 

[sphagnum]

I like that in your response you didn't answer if you did any voting or campaigning.

And I like that you are implying that everything on the ballot was "sellouts". Tell me what state you were in. Who was running for Governor or US Senate? Who was running for the local offices in your areas? Were THEY all sellouts too?

What about ballot initiatives? Which ones did you have in those states? Were those ballot initiatives all "Sellouts", too?

You claim to be the "real activist" and then afterwards show that you aren't willing to do the BARE MINIMUM to create progress.

And no I don't care what protests and demonstrations you attended if you didn't even vote. No one listens to protesters if those protesters don't show they have the power to actually chcnage elections and they don't have the power to change elections if they aren't campaigning or even trying to vote.

He's European.

 

[TestOfTide]

He's European.

Yeah I saw that and added my response to that fact in my edit.

Fact is that even if he is in Europe he's not helping progressivism by wasting energy attacking moderates and liberals.

 

[Xando]

I don't see how this is the revenge of the poor and lower class when the super rich are now further entrenched in the government than ever. Trump just put a lot of CEOs in key government positions. I still don't get why people think this election is a win for the little guys. So ridiculous.

Similiar to the Brexit vote trump and the GOP conviced the white working people to vote against their own interest by offering to restore a time when they were a superpower(UK) or to a time where they felt like there was always someone else below(POC, women or immigrants) when they got fucked by the elites (US).

Basically people got brainfucked so hard to vote against their own interests because of nationalism (patriotism in the US) and having their country helped to as they perceive it as greatness.

 

[Boney]

Yeeeeep.

People bought into a liar. A man who made it so you can lie openly and outwardly to get elected, and proved that nobody cares.

So, what we need to do is just lie even harder.

Fuck playing nice anymore, we gotta stop environmental destruction and the erosion of the social contract before it's too late.

The failure to address post literacy will only result in the further erosion of civil liberties. The triumph of creationism is a partly the fault of the left crossing their arms in disapproval.

 

[Ponn]

Part of the problem with unions is that they are compromise institutions that exist to give workers a voice in the capitalist system but not control over it, and that gives employers - who retain the top spot in the relationship - the ability to bend the unions into submission through getting good with union bosses who are "team players" or threatening to ship jobs elsewhere. We need to be giving power to the workers themselves so that the class war can be quashed.

I lost count how many times our union at my previous job said "We have to give on this or they are just going to move the jobs overseas" We always got more done by just going to the site manager than our union leader, it was infuriating.

 

[Frozenprince]

The failure to address post literacy will only result in the further erosion of civil liberties. The triumph of creationism is a partly the fault of the left crossing their arms in disapproval.

Where the did you get "sit around and cross our arms" from that statement?

That post is advocating "no we need to do exactly what they did and fucking lie and cheat".

 

[Foffy]

I don't see how this is the revenge of the poor and lower class when the super rich are now further entrenched in the government than ever. Trump just put a lot of CEOs in key government positions. I still don't get why people think this election is a win for the little guys. So ridiculous.

When it's been a narrative that government is inherently bad and business is morally good, people will eventually want the government run like a business.

Of course, the failings of government go beyond even core neoliberal concerns, such as the terrorists at the GOP intentionally making government work poorly.

It takes a good deal of uh ohs for people to normalize even the idea that a business in charge of things is for the social wellbeing of society...

Not to mention, this is a quick and easy vacuum for racist and other tribalistic shitlords to get validation, as they have. They have an open window to just walk right on in and fuel further inequalities, and this can be seen with the eventual austerity spin you'll see Republicans make.

I never got how the people with the least have to "tighten their belts" as the most bloated have ruined everything.

 

[Darth Ghandi]

This isn't a issue that only affects the US.

Here in the EU we have similar problems.
In Sweden we have a safty net but the socialdemocrats started selling state run assets and then he rightwing coaltiion putt it into overdrive.

WE also have a huge gap between blue and white coller workers.
Since the 80 the top has accumulated 20% more wealth.
The same socialists who warned against thatcherism and reagenomics are kinda saying "we told you so".


So we also have a building neo-nazi/islamophobia/regressive wave washing over us.

 

[sphagnum]

I lost count how many times our union at my previous job said "We have to give on this or they are just going to move the jobs overseas" We always got more done by just going to the site manager than our union leader, it was infuriating.

Exactly. Many unions were very militant and radical early on but they eventually traded that for compliance when they realized they could do pretty good without being smeared as communists in the 20th century. But now it's to the point that they've lost most of their real bargaining power since globalization (and automation) allows employers the ability to just bypass workers entirely if they need to. This can never be truly resolved as long as private interests own the means of production.

 

[grumble]

Many, many wealthy people wanted the republicans to win. They hate the regulation and the taxation. The democrats won among the very poor only.

 

[Foffy]

Many, many wealthy people wanted the republicans to win. They hate the regulation and the taxation. The democrats won among the very poor only.

And everyone wants to get away from those evil poors, as they are just one business decision away from being rich!

 

[User Name Here]

Its perfectly fitting that the "lower classes" revenge is putting EVEN more super wealthy people in government to fuck them over.

Keep voting against your interests Americans.

Wealthy people that care even less about them than the others.

 

[R0ckman]

The problem I see with this "lower class" uprising is that they rose up and put the very people who have fucked them, and will continue to fuck them into power.

"But I won't die alone... I'm taking you ALLLL with me!!"

 

[KingK]

Where the did you get "sit around and cross our arms" from that statement?

That post is advocating "no we need to do exactly what they did and fucking lie and cheat".

That's a fucking terrible idea. The left base does not respond to the same appeals as the right. Lying and cheating more would just depress turnout and support from the significant portion of democratic voters who operate in the realm of reality and aren't nearly as tribalistic as the right. And it would do nothing but further disillusion the half of Americans who don't even bother to vote.

And that's aside from the fact that the media would revel in calling out every single lie the left makes, unlike the right, because leftists wouldn't throw as much of a hissy fit over valid criticism and hurt their ratings like the right does. Plus right wingers actually make up more of their viewers anyway. This means swing voters and independents are further pushed away too. The reason those tactics work on the right are because of the institutional and media advantages they have, in addition to their base being overwhelmingly ignorant, tribalistic luddites.

We don't even need to lie, the facts and evidence are on our side. What we abso-fucking-lutely need to do is be more aggressive; willing to identify the enemies (the republican politicians, white supremacists, and the 0.1%), relentless in attacking them with truth from all angles, and articulate in explaining how they all work in concert towards the degradation of this country, the world, and all who inhabit it. No more of this falling over ourselves to appease them, work with them, treat then like friendly colleagues, helping them manage the politics of their crazy base, and praising them whenever one of them shows the slightest semblance of human decency. And it needs to be a constant, unrelenting political and rhetorical assault on those enemies filling the public airwaves all the time. We can't just go media silent when it's time to govern. I think Obama neglecting the bully-pulpit had huge negative consequences, and is a mistake the Trump administration is unlikely to repeat.

 

[Valhelm]

Oh, please. 🙄

Both sides, huh.

Yeah, both sides.

The Democrats are little more than empathetic Republicans. Instead of appealing to white supremacy and nativism, the Democrats offer support (which is more often than not only symbolic) to marginalized peoples and reluctantly endorse progressive movements.

The Democrats are much, much better than the Republicans, but this isn't because of their own virtue. Republican policymakers have gone to such unthinkable depths in their pursuit of votes that the Democrats are the only sane man. They promise little to their voters and offer less, because when the other team wants to dehumanize and disenfranchise the majority of Democrats, these people don't have any other choice.

This time around, the Democrats' inadequacy bit them in the ass. Huge swaths of reactionaries turned out for Trump, but Hillary's policy was presented so poorly that the Democratic coalition didn't emerge in substantial numbers. Not only did many apathetic white Democrats unaffected by white supremacy stay home, but minority turnout was also depressed. This allowed a neofascist carnival barker to skit past the finish line.

 

[alexthekid]

Systems of mass abuse seems to die sooner or later.

We have a system where we "cant afford" to pay decent wages to the people that producera rhe shit we want to buy or sell, so instead we let some poor schmuck do it for pennies in a developing country.

The best thing about it, is that a lot of the people that used to produce all our shit are in abundance now, we dont really need all of them, lets use the DNC term, they are deplorables. And since they are in such abundance they have to fight eachother for the priveledge to wise our asses or prepare our burgers. That is untill we have figured out a better (cheaper) way to do it.

But nah that is probably not it. It probably just priveledged white people that sånt understand how lucky they are, being rasclst.

 

[Hello? This is Hailun!]

Can someone actually explain to me what "neoliberal" means nowadays? I hear conflicting, unclear definitions, but I'm seeing it increasingly pop up post election

It's an economic model. Clinton's TPP.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

The best thing about it, is that a lot of the people that used to produce all our shit are in abundance now, we dont really need all of them, lets use the DNC term, they are deplorables. And since they are in such abundance they have to fight eachother for the priveledge to wise our asses or prepare our burgers. That is untill we have figured out a better (cheaper) way to do it.

Deplorables, the DNC term? You mean that thing Hillary said about half of Trump's voters (which, based on voting numbers, is only about 14% of this country)? What's the DNC have to do with that? Doubt they'd want their candidate to say something so politically incorrect.

It's an economic model. Clinton's TPP.

Ahh yes, President Hillary Clinton's Trans-Pacific Partnership.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

Don't really have anything to add to the discussion, but I wanted to say this is possibly the best analysis of the current political shitshow I've read so far. And it was written before Trump's election. This situation has been brewing for a while and nobody in a position of power ever gave a shit.

 

[Lord Frieza]

The failure to address post literacy will only result in the further erosion of civil liberties. The triumph of creationism is a partly the fault of the left crossing their arms in disapproval.

What!? Lol, so what were we suppose to do in relation to creationism? Validate it as a notable science?

 

[Boney]

What!? Lol, so what were we suppose to do in relation to creationism? Validate it as a notable science?

No. To be politically active so snake oil salesmen cannot insert such level of influence to shape the very education system in place. If you put two and two together where I'm mentioning the dangers of a post literate society and how creationism has been institutionalized as a valid anti intellectual position to have, then you wouldn't be asking stupid questions.

 

[Lord Frieza]

No. To be politically active so snake oil salesmen cannot insert such level of influence to shape the very education system in place. If you put two and two together where I'm mentioning the dangers of a post literate society and how creationism has been institutionalized as a valid anti intellectual position to have, then you wouldn't be asking stupid questions.

How else can you be politically active without acknowledging the fact that it is not a proper science or proper to teach in schools, the thing in which causes that extreme reaction from the extremely religious? My question is not stupid, it's your solution that lacks depth and a basic understanding of what the problem actually is.

 

[Boney]

How else can you be politically active without acknowledging the fact that it is not a proper science or proper to teach in schools, the thing in which causes that extreme reaction from the extremely religious? My question is not stupid, it's your solution that lacks depth and a basic understanding of what the problem actually is.

You keep raising the point of "not acknowledging that it's dumb as shit" where it couldn't be anywhere close to my point at all.

The Democratic Party completely retreated from these states and thanks to the marvel that is the Federation system, it leaves these states with complete autonomy to introduce such toxic elements. Without the political structure that is provided by the party, political manifestation becomes isolated and easily buried.

I'm not offering a "solution". I just made the simple remark that without opposition, systems that seem to come straight from an Orwelian novel are easily constructed, institutionalized through law and thus legitimized for the collective. It's a fact that creationism has been legitimized considering public schools accept it as valid part of the curriculum, this statement doesn't mean that we need "speak in their terms" or sympathize with the this system and try to see the good in it or whatever you are trying to put in my mouth.

Post literacy is the loss of comprehension in the written language, where words and meanings don't match up and thus thinking, resistance and dissent become endangered. Creationism is in direct opposition to what an education should provide and thus weakens the validity of the education system which in turn interacts with other political and economical institutions.

I guess I forgot to add "and doing nothing else about it".

 

[Lord Frieza]

You keep raising the point of "not acknowledging that it's dumb as shit" where it couldn't be anywhere close to my point at all.

Don't use quotations to something I didn't say. For someone complaining about words being put in their mouth, it's tacky to literally do that to someone else.

The Democratic Party completely retreated from these states and thanks to the marvel that is the Federation system, it leaves these states with complete autonomy to introduce such toxic elements. Without the political structure that is provided by the party, political manifestation becomes isolated and easily buried.

I'm not offering a "solution". I just made the simple remark that without opposition, systems that seem to come straight from an Orwelian novel are easily constructed, institutionalized through law and thus legitimized for the collective. It's a fact that creationism has been legitimized considering public schools accept it as valid part of the curriculum, this statement doesn't mean that we need "speak in their terms" or sympathize with the this system and try to see the good in it or whatever you are trying to put in my mouth.

Post literacy is the loss of comprehension in the written language, where words and meanings don't match up and thus thinking, resistance and dissent become endangered. Creationism is in direct opposition to what an education should provide and thus weakens the validity of the education system which in turn interacts with other political and economical institutions.

No, this isn't what you said at all in the beginning. Now that you've clarified what you're trying to say, it makes more sense what you're trying to say, but I think you can't really ignore the fact that you can't address this issue without pointing out that creationism isn't a proper science, which elicits the extreme response mentioned before. I can promise you, as someone who has lived most of their lives in the Southern states, it takes a lot more than just political activity and trying to educate people.