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[ShironRedshift]

Sounds like the GOP to me

Also this. The stunts they've been pulling in North Carolina among all the other garbage they've been trying to accomplish definitely qualifies as comic book villain material in my book. Not to even mention what people like Paul Ryan want to get passed in his budget... Yeah, sounds pretty damn accurate.

 

[fantomena]

Oh, please. 🙄

Both sides, huh.

Love me some Chomsky.

 

[Enzom21]

Nm

 

[Boney]

Literally no one wants any of those things except in the paranoid fantasies of the author of this article. Childish, one-dimensional comic book villain mischaracterizations like this are the reason the far left are alienating people on the centre and right in droves.

Fyi
Chris Hedges

In 2002, Hedges was part of a group of eight reporters at The New York Times awarded the Pulitzer Prize for the paper's coverage of global terrorism. He also received the Amnesty International Global Award for Human Rights Journalism in 2002.[8] He has taught at Columbia University, New York University, Princeton University,[7][9][10] and the University of Toronto.[11] As of 2013, he teaches prisoners at a maximum-security prison in New Jersey.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Fyi
Chris Hedges

In 2002, Hedges was part of a group of eight reporters at The New York Times awarded the Pulitzer Prize for the paper's coverage of global terrorism. He also received the Amnesty International Global Award for Human Rights Journalism in 2002.[8] He has taught at Columbia University, New York University, Princeton University,[7][9][10] and the University of Toronto.[11] As of 2013, he teaches prisoners at a maximum-security prison in New Jersey.

Credentials mean almost nothing in the world of polemics, though. There have been numerous instances of well respected writers on both the right and left going off the deep end. In fact, it tends to happen *more* to the respected ones because they have a safe platform and little pushback.

 

[Boney]

Credentials mean almost nothing in the world of polemics, though. There have been numerous instances of well respected writers on both the right and left going off the deep end. In fact, it tends to happen *more* to the respected ones because they have a safe platform and little pushback.

That's true. But it's definately not the case here considering Wages of Rebellion last year was met with unanimous praise.

 

[And_Gignac]

So wait, was the Soviet Union neoliberal for doing coups to install communist leaders?

"It's a really easy concept to grasp" when I have literally never heard this definition of neoliberalism and have heard five others is, uhhhhhhh.

Capitalist economic imperialism, then. You may have read 5 or 50 definitions, they are probably related to the same thing anyway.

"Open your economy developing country, let us flood your market with our companies that will have an evident advantage over the local ones (if there's any). But don't mind about taking a fair part of the profit, most of it has to come back to the Empire! In the meantime, let me also hire some brown women so they can work in shitty conditions during 12 hours a day, while paying them a barely living wage".

Something like that. Omg such a vague concept right?

 

[Zeus Molecules]

I'm pretty sure it's only one specific group in the "lower classes" that was trying to get its revenge. The white ones.

I came here to say I don't think any of the brown or black power class people felt the need for revenge....... even though historically they are the ones who have been shitted on the most

 

[Angelus Errare]

I always hate articles that try to paint WWC as the most abused and ignored group in America.

As if Post WWII America's whole suburban/middle class America jumpstart program didn't happen or apply to them.

 

[Ogodei]

I always hate articles that try to paint WWC as the most abused and ignored group in America.

As if Post WWII America's whole suburban/middle class America jumpstart program didn't happen or apply to them.

A shorter version of the post i wrote before is that other abused groups have advocates: conservatives of the WWC have been taught to embrace those who abuse them and to shun those who would help them. Other disadvantaged groups in the country have groups that fight for them, but the ones who claim to fight for the WWC just consider them useful idiots at the end of the day.

 

[KingK]

That I can agree with, and it is not even new.

I just hate the erasure of minorities from the working class that happen since the election.

Yeah that's something that's been bothering me a lot too. It actually started well before election day.

 

[Raven117]

A shorter version of the post i wrote before is that other abused groups have advocates: conservatives of the WWC have been taught to embrace those who abuse them and to shun those who would help them. Other disadvantaged groups in the country have groups that fight for them, but the ones who claim to fight for the WWC just consider them useful idiots at the end of the day.

The issue that will soon be pointed out with your post is that the WWC shouldn't need an advocate because the system is in their favor. The answer IMO is going to for more delicate and nuanced to effectively address all of this.

 

[pirata]

Reading through political threads like this on GAF makes me wish the Left could stop bitching and pointing fingers and start building new coalitions, institutions, and strategies. I really don't feel like being sent to a concentration camp or having my head caved in by a homophobe because everyone who cares was too busy arguing about who is to blame.

 

[sphagnum]

The issue that will soon be pointed out with your post is that the WWC shouldn't need an advocate because the system is in their favor. The answer IMO is going to for more delicate and nuanced to effectively address all of this.

It's in their favor racially, but not economically, except in comparison to other ethnic groups. Since the WWC doesn't understand that, they feel that they are being oppressed.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

Love me some Chomsky.

...can't get votes. Yet here they sit, in control of both houses of congress, the majority of governorships and state legislatures, the White House and soon the Supreme Court.

 

[Ogodei]

The issue that will soon be pointed out with your post is that the WWC shouldn't need an advocate because the system is in their favor. The answer IMO is going to for more delicate and nuanced to effectively address all of this.

I had wanted to make a tldr post. You're right that there's a *lot* of race politics wrapped up in it, which was Angelus's point. The other groups who have their own advocates have them for good reasons (being a product of discrimination), but poor whites have also long been targeted by discrimination even if they have had it much better than non-whites by the virtue of their skin color.

Asserting white identity has always been code for "i want to discriminate," much like how the benign-named "Men's Rights Advocates" is a front movement for all kinds of awful misogyny. I'm not saying they need an advocate based on their whiteness, but they need to get on board with other movements who would happily include them and who would support their economic interests (like organized labor).

 

[gabbo]

Unions tend to act as a drag on efficiency, productivity, and personal growth. Fred, the guy who as been at the company for 15 years, will always get the promotions, educational opportunities, newest technology, etc over the new guys who may want to work harder but it would be pointless because there is a preset "line" for everything.

Sure, for industries that don't require any innovation or face little globalization unions will be fantastic but for all the high tech fields and ones in which companies around the world are racing to be first to market, the ability for any worker to quickly advance on their own merits is a powerful disincentive on unions.

Unions also tend quickly towards bureaucracy, corruption, and value loyalty (to the union) over all else, not necessarily good traits in a globalized economy.

Look at police unions for example: they wield a disproportionate amount of power over what unions really should. They can shield bad officers from getting fired or even disciplined, they can close ranks and act as a drag on innovations like body cams or citizen review boards, and they fight tooth and nail against improving hiring and training practices. At the other end of course you have companies like Walmart which would rather shut down a store than allow employees there to unionize. I don't know what the answer is, but unions by themselves can many times create more problems than solve.



Didn't they also carry Obama to victory?

Did you get this from some kind of anti-union textbook?
This couldn't be anymore BS if the letters were falling from a bulls ass into a pile. The police maybe, everything else? Get outta here with this crap.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

...can't get votes. Yet here they sit, in control of both houses of congress, the majority of governorships and state legislatures, the White House and soon the Supreme Court.

Yeah the democrats need to go more to the far right again to find the new centre ground so you have two modern fascist parties running against each other. Literally wtf.

 

[Infinite]

Unions tend to act as a drag on efficiency, productivity, and personal growth. Fred, the guy who as been at the company for 15 years, will always get the promotions, educational opportunities, newest technology, etc over the new guys who may want to work harder but it would be pointless because there is a preset "line" for everything.

Sure, for industries that don't require any innovation or face little globalization unions will be fantastic but for all the high tech fields and ones in which companies around the world are racing to be first to market, the ability for any worker to quickly advance on their own merits is a powerful disincentive on unions.

Unions also tend quickly towards bureaucracy, corruption, and value loyalty (to the union) over all else, not necessarily good traits in a globalized economy.

Look at police unions for example: they wield a disproportionate amount of power over what unions really should. They can shield bad officers from getting fired or even disciplined, they can close ranks and act as a drag on innovations like body cams or citizen review boards, and they fight tooth and nail against improving hiring and training practices. At the other end of course you have companies like Walmart which would rather shut down a store than allow employees there to unionize. I don't know what the answer is, but unions by themselves can many times create more problems than solve.



Didn't they also carry Obama to victory?

This read like typical anti-Union propaganda

 

[Foffy]

Love me some Chomsky.

I'd love to see someone challenge this idea. I have a hard time seeing it.

Chomsky and Henry Giroux, among others, are real powerhouses on the dangers and straight up failure of neoliberalism that has evolved into a "war on the public."

Of course, Chomsky called this rise years ago. In a culture that has normalized violence as a response to public issues, electing neonationalists is probably the highest act of violence a political system can experience, like throwing cases of gasoline into a burning house.

People surprised by this have been in a bubble, to be honest. When a culture is failing people, they will eventually long for "what was," and you can see the racial disparity at play here. Who wants us to be like we were in 1986? A group of people whose lives were better then and are worse now, and next to none of them longing this are minorities. Most dangerously, it's these left behind folks that seem to have the most "importance" out of the rest of us precariats.

...can't get votes. Yet here they sit, in control of both houses of congress, the majority of governorships and state legislatures, the White House and soon the Supreme Court.

They have to rig parts of their states to keep things in their favor, and hope voter apathy is so hard that the tribalistic drinking their Kool-Aid stay around.

Republicans are the most nationalistic "line up for duty" types of people that there are. This is the party's blessing, and the country's curse.

 

[darkace]

Just like Brexit, the working classes place the right wing fringe politicians in positions of power and make them the new mainstream, shoving the moderates aside. And guess what these politicians want? To further cut social security, want EVEN MORE free trade, wipe out banking regulations, and race to the bottom on corporate taxation. Congratulations, you played yourself. And I don't have ANY sympathy at all for them when you get fucked over even more. The people who voted for it can suffer for all I care. At least the US has a chance to undo it in 4 years, the UK is fucked until we come to our senses.

People opposing these policies are driving fascist tendencies through reducing economic welfare. Eliminating company tax especially would be a major boon to the working class, the US' ridiculous tax system is the major reason for stagnation.

These people are voting for good policy that would help them out through massively increasing their ability to create long-term wealth, but we have a bunch of people opposed to reform that has universal consensus because they're incapable of characterising cause and effect.

 

[zoukka]

Its perfectly fitting that the "lower classes" revenge is putting EVEN more super wealthy people in government to fuck them over.

Keep voting against your interests Americans.

The same exact shit is happening in europe.

 

[Ponn]

This read like typical anti-Union propaganda

It shouldn't be completely disregarded though because there is truth there. I've seen alot of that inefficiency in a particular union i was part of through a job. They almost always came of more sympathetic towards the company and were completely ineffective but boy did the union workers love their monthly dinners and jobs.

Workers need protection from having their rights abused and treated unfairly but it would be more effective it came down universally through either federal or state governments instead of hoping the leaders of your local union are acting in your best interest while collecting a pay check regardless and who knows what else from the business.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Another article about how stupid the other side is!

 

[Frozenprince]

It shouldn't be completely disregarded though because there is truth there. I've seen alot of that inefficiency in a particular union i was part of through a job. They almost always came of more sympathetic towards the company and were completely ineffective but boy did the union workers love their monthly dinners and jobs.

Workers need protection from having their rights abused and treated unfairly but it would be more effective it came down universally through either federal or state governments instead of hoping the leaders of your local union are acting in your best interest while collecting a pay check regardless and who knows what else from the business.

And that's never happening.

Unionizing is the best solution we have available.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

And that's never happening.

Unionizing is the best solution we have available.

I agree.

 

[Stinkles]

Republican gerrymandering and education defunding and warping reality and killing unions and nonstop attacks on science and critical thinking did a lot more to create this than Hillary skipping a Michigan rally.

But we're going to wring our hands and blame ourselves for "ignoring" largely fictional plights and trying to improve their education, heathcare, economy and infrastructure


We "ignored" them instead of riling them up with fake promises while secretly undermining their future so the koch brothers can avoid all capital gains tax.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

Did you get this from some kind of anti-union textbook?
This couldn't be anymore BS if the letters were falling from a bulls ass into a pile. The police maybe, everything else? Get outta here with this crap.

This read like typical anti-Union propaganda

because it is.

I'd love to see someone challenge this idea. I have a hard time seeing it.

Chomsky and Henry Giroux, among others, are real powerhouses on the dangers and straight up failure of neoliberalism that has evolved into a "war on the public."

Of course, Chomsky called this rise years ago. In a culture that has normalized violence as a response to public issues, electing neonationalists is probably the highest act of violence a political system can experience, like throwing cases of gasoline into a burning house..

careful now, using Neoliberal is apparently a slur and no one will pay attention to it now.

 

[Ponn]

And that's never happening.

Unionizing is the best solution we have available.

Not when leaders from both parties are bought and paid for by companies. Point is lets not pretend unions have the teeth they used to and have become just about as ineffective as everything else in the face of the corporate machine. Police Unions being the exception, coincendentally not being at odds with corporate america. .

 

[Frozenprince]

Republican gerrymandering and education defunding and warping reality and killing unions and nonstop attacks on science and critical thinking did a lot more to create this than Hillary skipping a Michigan rally.

But we're going to wring our hands and blame ourselves for "ignoring" largely fictional plights and trying to improve their education, heathcare, economy and infrastructure


We "ignored" them instead of riling them up with fake promises while secretly undermining their future so the koch brothers can avoid all capital gains tax.

Yeeeeep.

People bought into a liar. A man who made it so you can lie openly and outwardly to get elected, and proved that nobody cares.

So, what we need to do is just lie even harder.

Fuck playing nice anymore, we gotta stop environmental destruction and the erosion of the social contract before it's too late.

 

[KernelPanic]

The far-left barely exists in the US. Dems are center, center-left. If I can assign fault is with the Dems try to hold on to the center.

The more left you go the more voters you lose and the more "socialist" you become(in people's eyes).

 

[getbuff]

Really? Then what is the emphasis on being "anti-PC" and "telling it like it is" really about then? What do they want so badly to be able to say, that they don't feel they're allowed to say now?

"PC" seems like an extremely vague target. For instance, it may be "anti-PC" to question the wisdom of Germany's immigration policies in light of many complications the country is experiencing, but it's a topic that can and should be debated as there are massive implications for the lives of millions. This is a conversation that can only be had in a context of free speech. Painting someone a racist for addressing these topics is not helping the situation, it only makes YOU look like the authoritarian.

You're posting on a forum where there was a recent thread wherein the overwhelming majority of participants were in favour "outing" (read: doxxing) friends on Facebook who may have racist views. Look at some of the people pouring white hot outrage into 40-page threads about the iPhone 7 not having a headphone jack and ask yourself if these are the types of level-headed individuals you want monitoring your free speech.

A huge amount of media attention is being paid to a lunatic fringe acting like imbeciles who believe Trump is the new white messiah or some shit. This behaviour is disgusting, but I'm skeptical that racism of that type is demonstrated by any more than a tiny, tiny subset of your population (I'm Canadian). The media feed outrage because outrage draws eyeballs, and these issues tend to be inflated dramatically in interest of sensationalism. This is not a defence of Trump's cabinet.

 

[Xando]

Many writers on socioeconomic policy have warned that the old industrialized democracies are heading into a Weimar-like period, one in which populist movements are likely to overturn constitutional governments.

This is quite a interesting comparison.
While Weirmar had more parties than the current US the GOP certainly behaved similiar to the NSDAP(not saying they are nazis) by basically bringing the political system to a standstill these past years and rile up the lower classes against the elites.

Similiar to the GOP the NSDAP paralyzed the german government/parliament until Hitler was offered to be chancellor by the german emperor and slowly took over all 3 branches of the system.

 

[Electric Eye]

These beliefs are the reason why unions are going away.

The only point I agree with is the problem with the police union. But let's not kid ourselves, the police union isnt set up to protect its members against unfair wages, layoffs and vindictive management, it's a racist organization that needs reformed.

Exactly, comparing the police union who have always been used to bust trade unions when they dare to stand up for their rights is the very reason unions are almost non existent anymore. Just look around we live in a post union country and it looks like shit. What you you see around you is the exact result of union busting and right to work laws. People really in here blaming unions as if they have been thriving all along? That's how brainwashed people especially those that have never been in a union have become. Its a sad stae of affairs.

 

[StrategyFan]

there is nothing wrong with voting for the least worst candidate. i'm not appreciating all these "anti-elitist" articles trying to shame people who probably only voted based on a handful of issues instead of demonstrating total support for the entire Clinton platform

anyways, this neoliberal catch-all isn't responsible for screwing over poor people. it is just a result of capitalism.
it screws over useless people. people need money to thrive in a globalized capitalist society, and that means non-rich people need actually marketable skills to get money. simply being American is not a marketable skill, and maybe that's the wake-up call that this country needs.
fwiw, the "neoliberal left" side of US politics (which is not really left of center) tends to support things like education and some amount of welfare to actually be able to go to school instead of being forced to work right out of high school to make ends meet. but there are lots of lazy americans who reject the whole concept of becoming educated.

why is middle america not "great again"? because nobody wants to spend money buying anything they have to offer. simply being from murica isn't an entitlement to benefits and a life of luxury, at least not while the USA continues to be the conductor of the capitalism hype train

 

[smokeandmirrors]

These beliefs are the reason why unions are going away.

The only point I agree with is the problem with the police union. But let's not kid ourselves, the police union isnt set up to protect its members against unfair wages, layoffs and vindictive management, it's a racist organization that needs reformed.

police unions shouldn't exist. when an organization like the police has a monopoly on state power they cease to need the protection of a union.

 

[TestOfTide]

I look, another thread about Leftists looking for Democrats and moderates to hate.

Tell me, since you guys tend to be the ones claiming to care more about progress than moderates and standard democrats:

What the hell have you done this year to help progressive causes?

Did you do the BARE MINIMUM and actually vote this year? Oh you don't like Hillary or Trump? Well last i checked there was more on the damn Ballot than POTUS? Those downticket races are going to more directly affect you than the race for who sits in the Oval Office.

And if you did the BARE MINIMUM and voted, what else did you do? Did you talk with your friends and family to try to get them to vote the way you were going to vote? Did you actually find the nearest office for a Democratic campaign and volunteer to do at least SOME canvassing and/or phonebanks?

Because if all you did was post on the internet about what the Democrats need, then all that means is that you don't care enough to actually DO SOMETHING.

And while attending demonstrations and protests can help spread a message, actual voting and campaigning gets a lot more results.

I don't want to hear about how the Democrats' failures is all the fault of neoliberalism when it seems to be the leftists who aren't willing to do the hard work of actual campaigning.

 

[sphagnum]

It shouldn't be completely disregarded though because there is truth there. I've seen alot of that inefficiency in a particular union i was part of through a job. They almost always came of more sympathetic towards the company and were completely ineffective but boy did the union workers love their monthly dinners and jobs.

Workers need protection from having their rights abused and treated unfairly but it would be more effective it came down universally through either federal or state governments instead of hoping the leaders of your local union are acting in your best interest while collecting a pay check regardless and who knows what else from the business.

Part of the problem with unions is that they are compromise institutions that exist to give workers a voice in the capitalist system but not control over it, and that gives employers - who retain the top spot in the relationship - the ability to bend the unions into submission through getting good with union bosses who are "team players" or threatening to ship jobs elsewhere. We need to be giving power to the workers themselves so that the class war can be quashed.

 

[Dude Abides]

This read like typical anti-Union propaganda

It is. If someone says unions control promotions, for example, that person is full of shit.

 

[-MB-]

Another article about how stupid the other side is!

Just tellign it like it is, as they been claiming Trump was doing. But I guess they do not like it when the shoe is on the other foot now eh.
Screw them.

 

[darkace]

We need to be giving power to the workers themselves so that the class war can be quashed.

That's never failed!

 

[Frozenprince]

That's never failed!

Oh god.

 

[sphagnum]

That's never failed!

You're one to talk.

 

[Condom]

I look, another thread about Leftists looking for Democrats and moderates to hate.

Tell me, since you guys tend to be the ones claiming to care more about progress than moderates and standard democrats:

What the hell have you done this year to help progressive causes?

Did you do the BARE MINIMUM and actually vote this year? Oh you don't like Hillary or Trump? Well last i checked there was more on the damn Ballot than POTUS? Those downticket races are going to more directly affect you than the race for who sits in the Oval Office.

And if you did the BARE MINIMUM and voted, what else did you do? Did you talk with your friends and family to try to get them to vote the way you were going to vote? Did you actually find the nearest office for a Democratic campaign and volunteer to do at least SOME canvassing and/or phonebanks?

Because if all you did was post on the internet about what the Democrats need, then all that means is that you don't care enough to actually DO SOMETHING.

And while attending demonstrations and protests can help spread a message, actual voting and campaigning gets a lot more results.

I don't want to hear about how the Democrats' failures is all the fault of neoliberalism when it seems to be the leftists who aren't willing to do the hard work of actual campaigning.

LMAO

Seeing this post from the position of a leftist that sees average liberals doing jack shit but voting, is hilarious. Don't blame us, activism is our gospel. Look inwards for once, it might help. 'Derp vote for our sell-outs or you're irrelevant!!' Keep losing then. Good day.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

Fixing how people can just go into a district in both state and federal positions and giving that candidate tons of money to flood the district with ads would help us go a long way getting back the state and federal congress bodies.

But you know, you would have to actually be against big donors to get that to happen. You can't just say "it won't effect me... because the other side gives no shit about it. All this shift in the state and in the federal congress started because of the citizens united ruling.

 

[darkace]

You're one to talk.

https://ourworldindata.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/World-as-100-people-2-centuries-1.png

Yep.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Capitalist economic imperialism, then. You may have read 5 or 50 definitions, they are probably related to the same thing anyway.

"Open your economy developing country, let us flood your market with our companies that will have an evident advantage over the local ones (if there's any). But don't mind about taking a fair part of the profit, most of it has to come back to the Empire! In the meantime, let me also hire some brown women so they can work in shitty conditions during 12 hours a day, while paying them a barely living wage".

Something like that. Omg such a vague concept right?

Poor countries aren't really against neoliberalism then? Most public opinion polling from poor countries has them as in favor of globalization (which is defined pretty close to your definition of neoliberalism).

This definition frames neoliberalism as something that is mostly bad for poor countries and is good for rich countries, but "neoliberalism" is criticized far more by people in rich countries.

 

[Frozenprince]

LMAO

Seeing this post from the position of a leftist that sees average liberals doing jack shit but voting, is hilarious. Don't blame us, activism is our gospel. Look inwards for once, it might help. 'Derp vote for our sell-outs or you're irrelevant!!' Keep losing then. Good day.

Don't you live in Europe?

 

[Sirpopopop]

A shorter version of the post i wrote before is that other abused groups have advocates: conservatives of the WWC have been taught to embrace those who abuse them and to shun those who would help them. Other disadvantaged groups in the country have groups that fight for them, but the ones who claim to fight for the WWC just consider them useful idiots at the end of the day.

They did have advocates. Unions were a big one. So is the GI Bill.

They also had proposals designed to help them like a higher minimum wage. Actually trying to fix a health care law that's been gutted by Republican actions like destroying risk corridors.

 

[NetMapel]

Truthdig? Is it a good trustworthy website?