-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
The SNES was an even bigger graphical BEAST
- Thread starter Arthas
- Start date
OnWarmerMusic said:
Yeah, the Sony SPC700 DSP of the SNES utterly annihilated the Yamaha YM2612 FM / Texas Instruments SN76489 PSG sound hardware in the Genesis.
It's just amazing how good SNES music sounds even today.
Tenbatsu said:
Seiken Densetsu 3 really does still look amazing. It's just oozing with detail and artistic finesse.
Lionheart1827
Member
Man SD3 was an awesome game, I gotta fire it up again one day.
Oh yeah, SD3 is so awesome looking. I always preferred that type of 2D -- incredibly detailed and lush, albeit with small sprites -- over the large cartoonish style of, say, Guilty Gear and Monkey Island 3.
Anyway, in these types of discussions I like to point out the unsung hero of the SNES design; HDMA. It was such a powerful feature, and really what enabled all the crazy distortions, parallax effects and even Mode 7 wasn't much on it's own, it needed the power of HDMA to turn a "simple" 2D background rotation and scaling into 3D. As much as I dislike the DKC games, they really used HDMA to an awesome effect.
(What HDMA does? Basically it gives you the capability to change any graphics setting according to precomputed or dynamic values each scanline, without any CPU intervention, and it has 8 of those "channels")
Anyway, in these types of discussions I like to point out the unsung hero of the SNES design; HDMA. It was such a powerful feature, and really what enabled all the crazy distortions, parallax effects and even Mode 7 wasn't much on it's own, it needed the power of HDMA to turn a "simple" 2D background rotation and scaling into 3D. As much as I dislike the DKC games, they really used HDMA to an awesome effect.
(What HDMA does? Basically it gives you the capability to change any graphics setting according to precomputed or dynamic values each scanline, without any CPU intervention, and it has 8 of those "channels")
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
Arthas said:
i hate your asshole-ish post-modern misuse of that word
eso76
Member
to be honest, i remember several neogeo games featuring multiple parallax layers.
To name the first which comes to mind, Magician Lord -which is also the first neogeo game i saw- had like 4 at the very beginning of the game.
But anyway. I just remembered SNES graphics had a huge advantage over neogeo: Capcom's pixel artists
I've always been madly in love with capcom 2d style in 90's (mickey mouse, aladdin, knights of the round, demon's crest, SG'n'G).
SF2 still stomps on any snk beat em up artistically, despite being technically very inferior in its snes version especially.
To name the first which comes to mind, Magician Lord -which is also the first neogeo game i saw- had like 4 at the very beginning of the game.
But anyway. I just remembered SNES graphics had a huge advantage over neogeo: Capcom's pixel artists
I've always been madly in love with capcom 2d style in 90's (mickey mouse, aladdin, knights of the round, demon's crest, SG'n'G).
SF2 still stomps on any snk beat em up artistically, despite being technically very inferior in its snes version especially.
Moor-Angol
Banned
Back in the days, i was a true Nintendo fanboy, but i always wanted to own a NeoGeo system, so impressive... but on the other side, too expensive for my wallet :'(
Warm Machine
Member
The SNES' basic resolution for the majority of its games was much lower than both the Genny and the Neo Geo. Its strong suit against the Genny was the amount of colors and its sound chip (which doesn't amount to visuals). The Neo on the other hand had at least as many colors and ran in the higher res while having a sound chip as good or better.
Neo Games like The Super Spy used scaling like crazy for its gameplay. The Genny versions of Road Rash has insane amounts of sprite scaling going on but I think much of it was faked. The 32x versions of After Burner and Space Harrier are near enough carbon copies of the arcade games.
The most impressive scaling and mode 7 effect I'd ever seen on the SNES was in Super Off Road. Even though there was no rotation to the terrain it had one thing that most mode 7 never had and that was an illusion of height.
Neo Games like The Super Spy used scaling like crazy for its gameplay. The Genny versions of Road Rash has insane amounts of sprite scaling going on but I think much of it was faked. The 32x versions of After Burner and Space Harrier are near enough carbon copies of the arcade games.
The most impressive scaling and mode 7 effect I'd ever seen on the SNES was in Super Off Road. Even though there was no rotation to the terrain it had one thing that most mode 7 never had and that was an illusion of height.
Warm Machine said:
I love mode 7. I'm sure it's just nostalgia, but I think it still looks good.
Well, except for the mine shaft escape section from the magacite factory in FF6, that looks terrible.
But they just did so many interesting things with it. pilotwings, FFVI, Demon's Crest, Super Metroid, etc etc etc. It was the lens flare of its age, but for some reason I could never get enough of it.
<3
monkeylite
Member
tnw said:
Could never stand the overuse of mode 7 in FF VI. It looked awful when riding Chocobos and the Airship on the overworld. But I tolerated it because the game as a whole was awesome.
A Black Falcon said:
Sorry, extra pins does not equal an "interface", as you describe. All of the processing for 3D was done in the cart and in the frame buffer that was in the cart as well. There was nothing special about how the pinout was used. If you know what extra pins the Super FX enabled games used, please let us know.
Diablohead
Member
There was a video about the history of star fox and they basicly explain how the FX chip came to be, it was on youtube or some gaming site (I think it was linked on gaf a few months back)
Ranger X said:Here the only GENESIS game that pwned the hell of everything SNES or NEO-GEO technically wise at least. I've never seen more impressive 2D than this i think (at least in that era)
Batman And Robin
Here's some Youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e6z5s_d5CU (if you don't mind the video quality and the 30fps loss)
Holy shit.. that is impressive as hell.
BlazeHedgehog
Member
Neo-Geo elitists are kind of annoying
yeah, that's great, your hardware could do big, nicely-animated sprites. It also cost four times as much to own and was supported by... well, just SNK, for the majority of it's life.
You don't have to run asserting yourself in everybody's faces like you're in danger of loosing "cool kid" status.
yeah, that's great, your hardware could do big, nicely-animated sprites. It also cost four times as much to own and was supported by... well, just SNK, for the majority of it's life.
You don't have to run asserting yourself in everybody's faces like you're in danger of loosing "cool kid" status.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Arthas said:Here is a fine example on how the snes, with it's less powerful hardware, could improve upon an arcade game graphically, simply thanks to clever design tricks inherent in it's hardware:
Left arcade/Right Snes
I'm not seeing it.
-The SNES version loses the amazing background in lieu of the cheesy mode7 effect.
-The arcade release still has the advantage of richer colors, better sprites(more detailed, better animated, hell..more sprites overall), and special effects that don't come at a cost to the gameplay(the mode7 stage in that comparison pic is a bonus round...it's weak as hell).
The SNES, Genesis, and TG16/PCE were all amazing systems. Each had their strengths and weaknesses, and offered unique experiences across the board. My favorites list from the 16-bit era is ridiculous, and are where most of my fondest gaming memories are derived from. Then again, when I think about the early 2600 days, 8-bit, 32-bit, and beyond, there are lots there, too, but in terms of sheer time investment and the nostalgia factor, I think 8-bit and 16-bit are tied. When devs finally got past the slowdown issues on the SNES, man, that was some good times.
This was the last Nintendo non-handheld system to have incredible 3rd party support. It was a great time to be a gamer, and the SNES S-Video cable was the gateway for me to upgrade finally from my little 14" composite color computer monitor w/ mono audio (I got my stereo fix on the Genesis w/ the headphone jack).
This was the last Nintendo non-handheld system to have incredible 3rd party support. It was a great time to be a gamer, and the SNES S-Video cable was the gateway for me to upgrade finally from my little 14" composite color computer monitor w/ mono audio (I got my stereo fix on the Genesis w/ the headphone jack).
BlazeHedgehog
Member
oo Kosma oo said:Virtua Racing, Sega Mega Drive
Sega Mega Drive
First available
JPN October 29, 1988
Star Fox, Super Nintendo
Super Nintendo
First available
JP November 21, 1990
/thread
What the fuck are you on? Virtua Racing wasn't even in arcades until 1992.
Death Dealer
Member
Sega1991 said:
Wiki says VR didn't arrive on Genesis until '94.
Mithos Yggdrasill
Banned
Davidion said:
Good one. :lol
oo Kosma oo said:Virtua Racing, Sega Mega Drive
Sega Mega Drive
First available
JPN October 29, 1988
Star Fox, Super Nintendo
Super Nintendo
First available
JP November 21, 1990
/thread
Uhm, Starfox was released 1993, Virtua Racer Genesis was released 1994. Also, why do you compare two games which both largely relied on add-on chips, makes no sense at all.
MisterHero
Super Member
the snes sold like the neo-geo wish it could
BlazeHedgehog
Member
oo Kosma oo said:
But the chip to get the Genesis version of Virtua Racing running was also a lot more expensive to produce. I think the Genny version of Virtua Racing cost like, $80 or $90 to compensate for it.
xemumanic
Member
Eiji said:
Sad too, because originally, it was going to have a 68000, but then Nintendo went with the 5A22 instead to try and add NES backwards compatibility (the CPU was pretty much a 16 version of the NES CPU). But when that plan fell through, it was too late to go back and use a 68000. Imagine what sort of beast it would have been if it did.
A Black Falcon
Member
cRIPticon said:
Huh? Super FX games and the SGB have those two separated extra sections of contacts on their cartridges that no other SNES games have... that's what I meant. They use extra contacts. The fact that Nintendo designed the cart port with extra, unused contacts says that they were planning for add-on stuff on the carts that would require more contacts than the carts had by default... otherwise the SNES would never have had those extra, separated contact sections there for the Super FX and SGB to use.
As for the additional hardware being on the cart, um, wasn't that the point? Sega did the same thing with the 32X, Sega CD, and SVP. Sega planned for that with stuff like the side add-on port (for the Sega CD), and Nintendo did with the extra, initially unused contact pins.
Other add-on chips, none of which used those extra pins, had more limitations than the Super FX...
jarrod said:
The Scavenger 32X demo video is available, though, and is pretty cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOWZbydnlZE
Zyrinx's Genesis games, Sub-Terrania and Red Zone, were pretty impressive, both gameplay-wise and technically, and they continued that in this tech-demo... their next (and last) game was Scorcher on PC/Saturn, which was pretty good too. But the 32X demo video that they and the other Scavenger teams made is awesome.
Sapiens
Member
Don't count out the Genesis here, N-dorks.
The Neo Geo obliterated the Snes, Genesis and PCE in every way that counted. No question.
But the SNES, PCE and Genesis were beasts in their own way.
There is not game as uniquely good looking as Alien Soldier, Gunstar Heroes, or Sonic 1 on the SNES.
There is no game as uniquely good looking as Super Metroid on the Genesis or PCE.
And for systems created 2 and 4 years later, the SNES and Genesis had a hard time keeping up with the PCE in some regards.
When it comes to capability and power, there is no clear cut winner in the lower end 16 bit wars.
If you can call a winner, you're an annoying, pathetic, dirty fanboy.
The Neo Geo obliterated the Snes, Genesis and PCE in every way that counted. No question.
But the SNES, PCE and Genesis were beasts in their own way.
There is not game as uniquely good looking as Alien Soldier, Gunstar Heroes, or Sonic 1 on the SNES.
There is no game as uniquely good looking as Super Metroid on the Genesis or PCE.
And for systems created 2 and 4 years later, the SNES and Genesis had a hard time keeping up with the PCE in some regards.
When it comes to capability and power, there is no clear cut winner in the lower end 16 bit wars.
If you can call a winner, you're an annoying, pathetic, dirty fanboy.
Diablohead
Member
I love me V.R but yes it was £75 at launch, I ended up buying an ex-rental copy for £15 a year later.Sega1991 said:
BlazeHedgehog
Member
oo Kosma oo said:
This is a SNES thread. You are barking up the wrong tree.
TreasureHunterG
Banned
Oh no, first in the N64 topic, Sony fanboys says PS1 graphics are better than N64, now Sega fanboys says Genesis graphics are better than SNES.
I'm now supporting anyone who says this kind of thread is stupid.
PS: SNES graphics isn't better than Neo Geo and I'm one of the biggest SNES fanboys you'll ever find.
I'm now supporting anyone who says this kind of thread is stupid.
PS: SNES graphics isn't better than Neo Geo and I'm one of the biggest SNES fanboys you'll ever find.
MisterHero
Super Member
OF COURSE NEO-GEO >>>> SNES AND PC >>>> N64
Just like yesterday's Arcades >>>> Consoles and today's PC >>>> Consoles
The same logic still applies today, so the only recourse for intelligent comparison would be other consoles(!) from their shared generation(!). Why the hell are people comparing SNES to PSX and Saturn?
stupid stupid stupid
Just like yesterday's Arcades >>>> Consoles and today's PC >>>> Consoles
The same logic still applies today, so the only recourse for intelligent comparison would be other consoles(!) from their shared generation(!). Why the hell are people comparing SNES to PSX and Saturn?
stupid stupid stupid
A Black Falcon
Member
TreasureHunterG said:
Sega CD32X might be more powerful than SNES even including games with addon chips, but stock Genesis? Of course not. And even with the CD/32X/32XCD, the massive problems with making multiple different systems work together (with 32X games, the 32X renders one part of the screen and the Genesis another... so maybe the foregrounds and sprites are Genesis and the backgrounds are 32X, or the other way around, for 2d games... etc...) hurt it a lot. Anyway, yeah the Genesis has twice the CPU power of the stock SNES, so things run faster, but Genesis games look and sound far worse (apart from Sega CD or CD32X titles, that is; 32X games have sound not much better than Genesis games do... just watch that AVGN 32X video that shows how SNES Doom has better sound than 32X Doom to prove that one.
). I think that's a pretty inarguable point... the only real arguments for either the Turbo or Genesis are "but they run faster (and have CD addons)", I think. And that's not enough.Marconelly said:
Ok maybe saying 99% was a bit harsh, but you saying 60fps scrolling is also blatantly false aswell, as no hardware of the time could give a 60hz picture could it? One instance in my defense is final fight for the Amiga VS SNES, fair enough the Amiga version had all the characters and 2 player mode, but the movement and frames of anamation was just awful on the Amiga
Can someone help me remember the name of a SNES game I keep thinking about?
Here is what I remember of it: side scroller, dark mood, extremely difficult, you had a gun which fired a single red laser beam, about 40 seconds into the first level you were attacked by a black puma and would die with a single hit. I also want to say this was a quasi-sequel to a previous game. Probably arrived around 92-94. Anyways, that's all I can remember... please help.
Here is what I remember of it: side scroller, dark mood, extremely difficult, you had a gun which fired a single red laser beam, about 40 seconds into the first level you were attacked by a black puma and would die with a single hit. I also want to say this was a quasi-sequel to a previous game. Probably arrived around 92-94. Anyways, that's all I can remember... please help.
