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[MormaPope]

Here is how this conversation began:

Seems like you were pretty angry about me not liking The Wire before I even posted anything! Sorry if I came across as curt but do you seriously think you were handling this better?

You came into a thread and claimed two shows that both critics and watchers adore, are bad. No explanations, no elaboration, just you blurting out "They're both bad!". What did you expect? You wanted to stir people up and that happened.

Context matters, and you didn't approach this situation with any subtlety.

 

[Tamerlane]

Where is the anger?

I don't know how you can say that you "understand that not everyone likes The Wire" if you think not liking the Wire is a "falsehood" and "misinformed foolishness".

You came into a thread and claimed two shows that both critics and watchers adore, are bad. No explanations, no elaboration, just you blurting out "They're both bad!". What did you expect? You wanted to stir people up and that happened.

Context matters, and you didn't approach this situation with any subtlety.

Have you read the majority of the posts in these types of threads? It's people giving their opinions on these shows, nothing more nothing less. Just because it's an unpopular opinion doesn't mean I can't post it. And I actually gave reasons for my opinions instead of gifspamming or saying "Wire>Sopranos" or whatever

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

Here is how this conversation began:

Seems like you were pretty angry about me not liking The Wire before I even posted anything! Sorry if I came across as curt but do you seriously think you were handling this better?

Well, for starters it is condescending to assume things of others and write them in this fashion:

You shouldn't get personally offended because someone doesn't like a TV show you like!

Let me remind you that this is to a completely different person. And as far as you know (according to the content of his/her post) he/she may not like the show in question at all.
--

Here was the original issue:

People who get way impressed with the The Wire probably have never read any work of sociology and like to pat themselves on the back for their heightened social awareness

it [the anger, if any] is not about the show, it was never about it.

 

[botty]

If you think The Wire is a bad show, clearly your opinion is wrong...

 

[shadyspace]

I like how no one in this thread is talking about the sopranos

 

[MThanded]

If you think The Wire is a bad show, clearly your opinion is wrong...

Read the posters posts before you attempt to stir the pot some more.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I like how no one in this thread is talking about the sopranos

I saw your Red Dead thread.

You just want to watch the world burn.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Actually, the stylistic choices in the realist lit work much better with their subject matter than they do in The Wire. Heavyhanded, overt dialogue damages it's claim to social realism. So does a lack of convincing female characters. I'd also argue it's unimaginative visual design doesn't do it any favors either.

And it's totally valid to make comparisons to things that David Simon, the show's creator, has compared the show to.

Here he compares it to greek drama: http://www.believermag.com/issues/200708/?read=interview_simon

Here he compares it to french realism: http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/criticism/summary/v052/52.3-4.la-berge.html

I'm also interested in how I'm deviating from the "discussion at hand". This is a thread about The Wire and The Sopranos right?

I didn't realize referencing a book or a movie would be considered intellectual masturbation either

Nothing you have said illustrates why The Wire is bad. Your argument seems to be that The Wire is not original, therefore it is overrated and bad. Nor have you listed shows you find to be noteworthy or good. You do have an anime avatar though. Congratulations.

 

[Jex]

I like how no one in this thread is talking about the sopranos

Well, your thread is titled "The Sopranos is better than The Wire" which, I believe, is an argument that many people are quite familiar with considering how their both acclaimed HBO titles. However, when you opened your post with a second, unexpected claim e.g. "The Wire was a second rate The Shield" people were so flabbergasted that they felt the need to tackle this point immediately.

 

[brianjones]

the anime avatar is just to throw people off the foe intellectual scent

 

[MormaPope]

Have you read the majority of the posts in these types of threads? It's people giving their opinions on these shows, nothing more nothing less. Just because it's an unpopular opinion doesn't mean I can't post it. And I actually gave reasons for my opinions instead of gifspamming or saying "Wire>Sopranos" or whatever

Obviously true, but you won't get automatic consideration for simply having a opinion. Opinions hold more weight when there are clear debates or arguments, you referenced obscure pieces of media and said more one note assertions.

Your original assertion and following arguments didn't strengthen your position at all, and no one will leave with a different mindset. You shouldn't be surprised that people in this thread aren't taking your opinion into consideration.

 

[Tamerlane]

Well, for starters it is condescending to assume things of others and write them in this fashion:

So the dude that insinuated that I have no friends+am repelling is not condescending? My post was p. tame in comparison.

Here was the issue:

it is not about the show, it was never about it.

I only said "probably" because the people I know IRL who really get into The Wire are like that. That wasn't directed at anyone specifically in this thread, unlike the insults and shit that was directed at me. I don't even care it's just ridiculous how some posters respond to dissenting opinions

You should call out the people who use my avatar as an excuse not to discuss anything. That seems way more condescending.

 

[not psycho]

I would prefer having an unpopular opinion, but The Wire is better. Apparently that is the majority opinion?

Well, at least I can go with The Shield also being better than The Sopranos and Breaking Bad to get my unpopular opinion fix.

 

[botty]

Read the posters posts before you attempt to stir the pot some more.

I wasn't even being sarcastic. whatever, mthanded.

 

[PhoenixDark]

It's not condescending, just ironic. And I ask again, what shows do you feel are better.

I've never heard anyone argue The Wire has bad writing. At times it is heavy handed and too overt, especially in the final season, but overall I can't think of any modern US shows that feature better writing. The dialogue is very good most of the time, and most characters are well thought out. In terms of the female characters...are you also arguing Kima isn't a well written, good character? Ridiculous. One of the best written gay characters I've seen in television.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

So the dude that insinuated that I have no friends+am repelling is not condescending? My post was p. tame in comparison.

I only said "probably" because the people I know IRL who really get into The Wire are like that. That wasn't directed at anyone specifically in this thread, unlike the insults and shit that was directed at me. I don't even care it's just ridiculous how some posters respond to dissenting opinions

You should call out the people who use my avatar as an excuse not to discuss anything. That seems way more condescending.

Your post was tame in comparison.

People, stop calling out on Tamerlane's avatar, this person has obviously shown that he knows what he's talking about.

Mods don't ban me I'm not attempting to do your job, I was being called out on my hypocrisy.

 

[MThanded]

I wasn't even being sarcastic. whatever, mthanded.

I was confused because right before that you said this

Of course it's better than The Wire. The Wire is over rated, and most of the storylines are boring as hell. I mean... The Sopranos' ending is more iconic and talked about than any ten scenes in The Wire. The Wire is a good show, but it's pretty clear which show is a work of art.

then this

If you think The Wire is a bad show, clearly your opinion is wrong...

If you aren't being sarcastic then I am totally confused.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Christopher Moltisanti or Shane Vendrell?

There's a nerdfight for you.

 

[HalfBakedProphet]

the anime avatar is just to throw people off the foe intellectual scent

 

[botty]

The Wire is a good show

I think it's over rated and some of the storylines are indeed boring, but anyone who thinks the show is bad clearly has poor taste.

 

[MThanded]

I think it's over rated and some of the storylines are indeed boring, but anyone who thinks the show is bad clearly has poor taste.

Sorry. Case of selective reading. Missed that part.

 

[freenudemacusers]

Game of Thrones > True Blood > Sex and the City > John From Cincinatti > Stuff on Starz > Oz > Sopranos > Six Feet Under ending episode > The Wire

 

[Tamerlane]

It's not condescending, just ironic. And I ask again, what shows do you feel are better.

I've never heard anyone argue The Wire has bad writing. At times it is heavy handed and too overt, especially in the final season, but overall I can't think of any modern US shows that feature better writing. The dialogue is very good most of the time, and most characters are well thought out. In terms of the female characters...are you also arguing Kima isn't a well written, good character? Ridiculous. One of the best written gay characters I've seen in television.

The Wire is certainly better than literally everything else on american TV, but thats just because american TV is not really a good source of artistic freedom. I found the dialogue way too on-the-nose, especially on rewatch. Kima is a good character and I don't think the female characters in the show are bad per se, just that there are disproportionately few of them esp for a show billed as being realistic.

 

[shadyspace]

Game of Thrones > True Blood > Sex and the City > John From Cincinatti > Stuff on Starz > Oz > Sopranos > Six Feet Under ending episode > The Wire

dis fuckin' guy

 

[The Illiterati]

I apologize for responding in this thread. I have done what I should have done and what I usually do, which is added another troll to my ignore list.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Game of Thrones > True Blood > Sex and the City > John From Cincinatti > Stuff on Starz > Oz > Sopranos > Six Feet Under ending episode > The Wire

Nobody ever namechecks Oz.

Didn't it premiere before The Sopranos? I remember watching season one and being fucking RIVETED. Sure, it was straight up soap opera, but it damn sure wasn't like any other TV I'd ever watched up to that point.

Everything kinda went to shit after Season Two, but at that point: Sopranos. So it wasn't that big a deal.

 

[shadyspace]

you should apologize for your fucking holocaust of an avatar is what you should apologize for

 

[kmax]

Never seen The Sopranos, but have heard that its pretty good. The Wire's one of the best shows I've ever seen. Even though each season focuses on different aspects of crime in Baltimore, the characters are all interconnected with the story, which makes this show have such a depth that not many shows can pull off.

Season 4 was probably the best season in a television series, ever. The show began to lose quality in Season 5, but it doesn't take away the fact that The Wire as a whole is a milestone in modern television.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

I've heard good things of Boardwalk Empire, but I haven't actually watched it. How would you rate it in comparison?

 

[freenudemacusers]

I've heard good things of Boardwalk Empire, but I haven't actually watched it. How would you rate it in comparison?

Let's put it this way: It didn't make my list

Nobody ever namechecks Oz.

Didn't it premiere before The Sopranos? I remember watching season one and being fucking RIVETED. Sure, it was straight up soap opera, but it damn sure wasn't like any other TV I'd ever watched up to that point.

Everything kinda went to shit after Season Two, but at that point: Sopranos. So it wasn't that big a deal.

Spoiler

Oz is actually a really great show. It has a strange rhythm/style to it that more closely resembles an ensemble theatre production vs a television drama. It took me a while to get into but it is quite good. Just don't expect Wire-esque verisimilitude, it's more abstract and surreal.

 

[botty]

Season 4 was probably the best season in a television series, ever. The show began to lose quality in Season 5, but it doesn't take away the fact that The Wire as a whole is a milestone in modern television.

The storyline with the children was really good. Shame it was coincided by that dull political storyline.

 

[brianjones]

I've heard good things of Boardwalk Empire, but I haven't actually watched it. How would you rate it in comparison?

boardwalk is officially tier 2 along with breaking bad and the shield

 

[PhoenixDark]

The Wire is certainly better than literally everything else on american TV, but thats just because american TV is not really a good source of artistic freedom. I found the dialogue way too on-the-nose, especially on rewatch. Kima is a good character and I don't think the female characters in the show are bad per se, just that there are disproportionately few of them esp for a show billed as being realistic.

What shows have more artistic freedom than HBO shows? I can't think of anything more risky/ballsy than its second season, at least of from modern television. Treme, perhaps.

Given the show's focus on detectives and drug lords in Baltimore I'd say the female representation is accurate.

 

[MormaPope]

Nobody ever namechecks Oz.

Didn't it premiere before The Sopranos? I remember watching season one and being fucking RIVETED. Sure, it was straight up soap opera, but it damn sure wasn't like any other TV I'd ever watched up to that point.

Everything kinda went to shit after Season Two, but at that point: Sopranos. So it wasn't that big a deal.

Oz did indeed premiere before the sopranos. Recently watched the entire series, Oz doesn't really dip in quality, didn't really get soap opera vibes. Prison drama is good drama.

 

[The Illiterati]

you should apologize for your fucking holocaust of an avatar is what you should apologize for

It does its job. I hate it so much as well.

 

[brianjones]

Oz did indeed premiere before the sopranos. Recently watched the entire series, Oz doesn't really dip in quality, didn't really get soap opera vibes. Prison drama is good drama.

I love oz but its cheesy as hell dude

Michael from lost doing slam poetry for the audience every episode ? lol

not even getting started on all the absurd plot developments

 

[MormaPope]

I love oz but its cheesy as hell dude

Michael from lost doing slam poetry for the audience every episode ? lol

Melodramatic might be the better word than cheesy. For Oz being one of the only prison dramas, it portrays prison and life in prison pretty damn well.

 

[botty]

What about In Treatment, guys? In Treatment. Remember In Treatment? No?

 

[Sojgat]

Stringer Bell > The Sopranos

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I love oz but its cheesy as hell dude

Michael from lost doing slam poetry for the audience every episode ? lol

not even getting started on all the absurd plot developments

At the time, he wasn't "Michael from LOST." In fact, when I first heard about LOST, I was like "Oh, good. The dude from OZ is still getting work. He was solid."

Melodramatic is definitely a better way to put it than either "cheesy" or "Soap Opera." - Although the weird Schillinger/Beecher/Chris Meloni thing was leaning pretty close to Soap Opera more often than not.

Speaking of LOST: Mr. Eko ain't got shit on Adebisi.

 

[brianjones]

nah I'm sticking with cheesy

I remember Rick fox had a recurring role

the thug life chose me

 

[freenudemacusers]

nah I'm sticking with cheesy

I remember Rick fox had a recurring role

mmm rick fox

and yo that was not cheesy buttsex.

 

[MormaPope]

At the time, he wasn't "Michael from LOST." In fact, when I first heard about LOST, I was like "Oh, good. The dude from OZ is still getting work. He was solid."

Melodramatic is definitely a better way to put it than either "cheesy" or "Soap Opera." - Although the weird Schillinger/Beecher/Chris Meloni thing was leaning pretty close to Soap Opera more often than not.

Speaking of LOST: Mr. Eko ain't got shit on Adebisi.

I'll agree to that.

But the fact that it was a love triangle between men in prison, and the absurdity of it all, makes me forget how soapy that was. When Oz would go to places, the writers and people involved never backed down on the absurdity.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Oz is quite theatrical, and it's dialogue is way more overt/heavy handed than The Wire. I'm two seasons in and enjoy it though.

Seriously though, which major channels offer more artistic freedom than HBO, still waiting on that answer. Oz is a great example of a show that wouldn't be possible anywhere else, especially not for 5 seasons.

 

[Discotheque]

Depending on how Breaking Bad sticks the landing - it could stand neck & neck with The Wire, I think.

it's pretty damn sweet but I dunno. On a rewatch the first two seasons have some questionable moments. Also I didn't realize how fucking annoying Walt was lol. I don't blame Skyler for what she did....

boardwalk is officially tier 2 along with breaking bad and the shield

he knows wassup

 

[MormaPope]

Oz is quite theatrical, and it's dialogue is way more overt/heavy handed than The Wire. I'm two seasons in and enjoy it though.

Seriously though, which major channels offer more artistic freedom than HBO, still waiting on that answer. Oz is a great example of a show that wouldn't be possible anywhere else, especially not for 5 seasons.

I would love to see a ABC friendly version of Oz, American prison probably wouldn't look that bad on ABC.

 

[Trent Strong]

I've heard good things of Boardwalk Empire, but I haven't actually watched it. How would you rate it in comparison?

It's slow moving. Really slow moving.

 

[I Big JG I]

Love em both. Keep the meltdowns coming.

 

[Zero315]

The Sopranos.

Spoiler

Because I haven't watched The Wire... I know, I know!

Game of Thrones > True Blood > Sex and the City > John From Cincinatti > Stuff on Starz > Oz > Sopranos > Six Feet Under ending episode > The Wire

Fuck, I forgot about Oz! Can I change my answer? Oz was great, I should rewatch it sometime.

Six Feet Under still has the best series finale of any show I've ever seen.

 

[freenudemacusers]

I'll just say this for people who haven't watched The Wire yet... Stick with Season 2 even if it turns you off completely. It completely validates itself about halfway through.