It lets me know my arrow/bolt count. It tells me if my weapon is broken and what status effect it has. It could be smaller but I dont get the big deal.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The start of Bloodborne and how it's freaking awful
- Thread starter Wamb0wneD
- Start date
I'm rather bad at navigating(also IRL), so I'd appreciate a map in the options menue where you can check your current location.Perhaps this is more your speed op.
Imperfected
Member
I mean, the Souls UI is and always has been utter trash, particularly the menus, but if anything it's because they've married themselves to an avalanche of stupid, near-useless information rather than not giving enough of it.
Bloodborne in particularly probably should have done away with armor stats and resistances altogether. Just make the runes "10% Reduced Damage from Physical Attacks" or "50% Slower Poison Build-Up" rather than having this entire arcane system of sub-stats that require entire screens of hideous presentation to not-really-get-across and don't actually vary that significantly from character to character anymore.
Bloodborne in particularly probably should have done away with armor stats and resistances altogether. Just make the runes "10% Reduced Damage from Physical Attacks" or "50% Slower Poison Build-Up" rather than having this entire arcane system of sub-stats that require entire screens of hideous presentation to not-really-get-across and don't actually vary that significantly from character to character anymore.
Jimnymebob
Member
My point is, that Bloodborne Photoshop has a dumbed down and overly intrusive UI, because the player who they're mocking can only play it like that, yet the interface if the other games treats the player like an idiot, but that's fine.
All you need to see on your screen is:
Health
Stamina
Souls
Equipped item
Equipped spell
Ammo
jipewithin
Member
I loved the beginning, there was really sense of exploration and when I found first boss / cleric it was wow experience. Got my ass kicked pretty hard but then I could also level up a little. Its really not a big deal if you cant level up at the start.
Fair enough. Some advance players may feel like its unnecessary. Im not at that point.
There have been times when I died because I thought I had a pistol or talisman equipped that I didnt because they appear really small on screen.
There's nothing elitist about that pic. It pokes fun at the excessive handholding of many modern AAA games. Souls games tend to go a little bit too far in the other direction though as many key concepts have to be figured out simply by trying.
It's actually pretty useful to see what you are using as in Dark Souls you have tons of weapons that look almost the same as 3D models but not in their icons. The scaling of the UI is pretty off in all but DS3 though. In BB I've sometimes wanted some indicator that I am in trick weapon mode. For example with Blades of Mercy it's really hard to see with most outfits.
kraspkibble
Permabanned.
i honestly think it's a good start. it teaches you how to play. if you change the way you play and take the time to learn then you'll have a good time but if you just refuse to adapt, want your hand held, and spit out your dummy then maybe it's not for you.
i got frustrated at first with it but had no idea how these games played. dark souls taught me and when i came back to bloodborne i knew all the stuff i was doing wrong the first time.
i got frustrated at first with it but had no idea how these games played. dark souls taught me and when i came back to bloodborne i knew all the stuff i was doing wrong the first time.
Soul of the Beast
Member
Demon's Souls comes to mind, It was pretty brutal. Not to mention the game was actually harder pre patch, can't imagine what it's like to play Demon' Souls day 1.
Melchiah
Member
Not to mention, that you can level up before encountering the first boss by finding Madman's Knowledge when exploring the first area.
BobbeMalle
Member
You have to adapt to the game and it's not really easy since Central Yharnam is a fucking sledghammer.
Find the best weapon for you and learn everything about it, since all weapons are really balanced.
Be aggressive, but it doesn't mean attack randomly everything that moves.
After a couple of bosses you should be fine.
Find the best weapon for you and learn everything about it, since all weapons are really balanced.
Be aggressive, but it doesn't mean attack randomly everything that moves.
After a couple of bosses you should be fine.
Can we please stop extrapolating new players' thoughs on the beginning of the game not guiding new players well enough so that they don't feel fustrated and/or confused, into that annoying git gud/"the beginning of the game is problematic because the Souls games are supposed to be harsh" mentality? I see that mocking picture with all those HUD elements and hints to where to go making the rounds a lot, but that doesn't solve my problems with the first hours of the game. I'm not asking for the game to tell me where to go or what to do, I'm asking for the game to explain its systems and to introduce me into how the mechanics work.
Maybe it's time to accept that some of the complains about the first level are actually legitimate instead of you know, making it seem as if everyone who got a problem with it is a dummy who needs Skyward Sword's levels of hand holding, idk. Like I said, I loved the game, it was my first Souls game and I will play the rest of the franchise in the future, but Bloodborne's first level makes it hard for a newcomer to dive into the game by itself (that is, without asking on a forum for advice, looking up FAQ's on how to play Souls games and stuff like that).
Maybe it's time to accept that some of the complains about the first level are actually legitimate instead of you know, making it seem as if everyone who got a problem with it is a dummy who needs Skyward Sword's levels of hand holding, idk. Like I said, I loved the game, it was my first Souls game and I will play the rest of the franchise in the future, but Bloodborne's first level makes it hard for a newcomer to dive into the game by itself (that is, without asking on a forum for advice, looking up FAQ's on how to play Souls games and stuff like that).
GenericUser
Member
Should have been first post. I'm not good at souls games, but managed to finish DS and I'm almost done with Bloodborne too.
Souls games demand patience and require you to always be on your toes and "read" and interpret what's happening on the screen.
Even though it's gafs darling, it's certainly not for everyone. I myself stopped playing bb after amygdala, because the game felt repetitive. The gameplay loop somehow lost its charm for me.
Soul of the Beast
Member
What a laughable post.
I mean you can say it's not enough, but at least they pointed out the controls right before your first encounter. That's something.
Other than that I don't really understand what you expect how they could possibly show you how the mechanics work. Something like a tutorial fight where the time is stopped everytime you're supposed to parry, dodge, hit with button prompts etc.?
Thank God that's not the case. In the end you achieved it by yourself, the game gave you the very basics and it was so engaging in your eyes that you endured all of this "problems".
So how is it even a problem for you? That's a good sign for a game, isn't it?
It's actually telling because it shows me how amazing it is.
Melchiah
Member
I don't see how it's bad in the first area, since the first shortcut is
right after the bonfire
from the barrels to the gate that opens to the lantern.
Yeah but the shortcuts are so hidden and most importantly, everything of importance so far away from the lantern that you're gonna lose a lot of time going to the same places the first time you play the game.
People are really underestimating OP's concerns as a first time Bloodborne player.
You only have to dig up the OT and see how many of the git gud guys were about to cry at launch. Yes you know the game by now, but don't expect every guy to know the super hidden shortcut is /just about There/.
People are gonna lose progress, and people are gonna have to backtrack for hours, and it's honestly not worth it.
I just wish the checkpoint placement was better, that's it.
Some souls fans are so sensitive, they make me laugh.
Red Liquorice
Member
I assume you're referring to the run back to Gsacoigne, which I would agree is tedious - I never really want to use elevators on a run back. There are worse later on though, SoY? 2 elevators. Logarius? Elevator, ladders, the works.
However, on the run back to Gascoigne you get some free souls from the enemies killed by the flaming boulder, the giant usually gets 90% of his HP knocked off by the same and the 2 wolf men at the end either drop vials or shards. In other words, then run back can usually give you a nice little loot stock of vials and goodies to help with the boss.
Games like the souls and bloodborne take me back to the games I grew up on back in the day where there were no in game explanations, you were put in there and you learned as you went. That feeling is one of the reasons why these games resonate with people. Codling in games in some cases have gone overboard (Like SS), but not every game needs to go that far or even go for the middle ground.
I don't really get the complaint either.
As others have said, you don't have to beat a boss to start leveling up.
Also, you don't have to level up to beat a boss.
The shortcuts aren't that hard to find if you decide to explore a little. And the feeling of dread while looking around the next corner hoping for a shortcut/lamp to come up adds SO much to the dark, gritty, horror atmosphere.
As for the difficulty... I can only give you an anecdote.
My girlfriend, whom I introduced to my PS4 a couple of months ago and who had problems with Ratchet and Clank on easy difficulty at first, cleared the beginning of Bloodborne very thoroughly and without major problems. She even found the shortcut infront of the house with the women in it. She beat the big guy banging at the gate with molotovs and so on, because she EXPERIMENTED and didn't follow the same pattern again and again when something didn't work. And boy was i proud of her when she beat the Cleric Beast on her third try.
She did play Dark Souls 3 before that, so she had experience in Souls games, but despite being a heavy shield user and seldom-roller in DS3, she quickly adapted to the BB playstyle and even killed the big guy with the axe near the first shortcut without leveling up.
So from my point of view the problem most definitely is related to your playstyle and not the beginning itself. Never in my or her playthrough have I encountered any inconsistencies in enemies' range of detection or other kinds of erratic behaviour.
As others have said, you don't have to beat a boss to start leveling up.
Also, you don't have to level up to beat a boss.
The shortcuts aren't that hard to find if you decide to explore a little. And the feeling of dread while looking around the next corner hoping for a shortcut/lamp to come up adds SO much to the dark, gritty, horror atmosphere.
As for the difficulty... I can only give you an anecdote.
My girlfriend, whom I introduced to my PS4 a couple of months ago and who had problems with Ratchet and Clank on easy difficulty at first, cleared the beginning of Bloodborne very thoroughly and without major problems. She even found the shortcut infront of the house with the women in it. She beat the big guy banging at the gate with molotovs and so on, because she EXPERIMENTED and didn't follow the same pattern again and again when something didn't work. And boy was i proud of her when she beat the Cleric Beast on her third try.
She did play Dark Souls 3 before that, so she had experience in Souls games, but despite being a heavy shield user and seldom-roller in DS3, she quickly adapted to the BB playstyle and even killed the big guy with the axe near the first shortcut without leveling up.
So from my point of view the problem most definitely is related to your playstyle and not the beginning itself. Never in my or her playthrough have I encountered any inconsistencies in enemies' range of detection or other kinds of erratic behaviour.
Well yeah, Dks'3 difficulty spikes are ass.
DkS1 still feels like the most balanced of the series, when it comes to difficulty curve, to me.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
I find the argument that it's meant to be harsher in the beginning a bit weird.
Surely approach would be to introduce mechanics/difficulty once people become more familiar and better equipped, why is the lesson forceably taught rather than introduced at a more palatable pace?
Surely approach would be to introduce mechanics/difficulty once people become more familiar and better equipped, why is the lesson forceably taught rather than introduced at a more palatable pace?
Bloodborne is the only 'Souls' game I've actually managed to finish, so I personally think the opposite is true. It was definitely the most welcoming beginning of the lot, and certainly the easiest of the games to wrap my head around. A lot of that came down to the pared down inventory and lack of classes.
NoHeDidn't
Member
Im not an advanced BB player but are we talking about the road with the bonfire with enemies surrounding it? I remember firing my gun and pulling them up the stairs where they would bottle neck for easy one on one fights.
Also molotovs launch them at the dudes especially the ones with wooden shields.
Also molotovs launch them at the dudes especially the ones with wooden shields.
GeordieMark
Member
Yeah, I got through it only dying once because I've playing these games for a while and understand the basics, but it did feel tougher than the Souls games. Not getting a weapon until after the first wolf encounter was an odd choice. I managed to punch it to death so I struggled away unarmed and confused as to where I get a weapon from until I eventually died and found myself at the Hunter's Dream.
I think the main reason BB feels more difficult is because it changes up the gameplay from the standard Souls template so there is a steeper curve at the start to teach players the mechanics. That first level throws a lot of groups of enemies at you to force you to learn crowd control and evasion, and has the big hard-hitting giants that are basically dummies to practice parrying against.
No right after where the big guy knocking in the opposite side of the bonfire door and the pack of 2 dogs and yharnam citizens
This.
Also what instructions it does give you, in the form of the little sick patches on the floor, is such a shit way "teaching" the player.
But my other main complaint was that I couldnt restart close to the boss encounters and needed to grind areas in order to stock up ready to take them on again. Some players enjoy that, but adding a time-saving difficulty setting for players to restart close to a boss battle or retain their items would've been appreciated.
I imagine if your began with a class that had less agility and then it would also make first impressions a little bit less favourable. If you dump some stats into it and follow up with weapon upgrades just about anything can get the job done. All three of the starter weapons are actually absolute monsters in the right hands.
LookAtMeGo
Member
I almost gave up on it when I first got it. Shit was hard as fuck. My first souls game. Then I watched a gaffer streaming them play it for a bit (i think it was Yoshichan) and saw how to properly utilize the games mechanics. I went back and gave it another shot. Then suddenly the game just clicked. Ended up being one of the best and most rewarding game experiences I've ever had. While I did get frustrated from time to time. Like my first time facing BSB.. when I finally slayed its ass... it was probably one the the most satifying feelings Ive ever had with a game. Father G was a memorable as fuck boss battle as well.
On NG+ I had to ring the bell for a few bosses but that shit was awesome too.
But yeah. Dying at a boss or something. You just got to start running past everything to get there again if you die.
On NG+ I had to ring the bell for a few bosses but that shit was awesome too.
But yeah. Dying at a boss or something. You just got to start running past everything to get there again if you die.
Same here, but unlike the OP I absolutely loved the first couple of hours exploring, finding shortcuts and generally learning the world and tactics. Got a bit demoralized when I hit the first boss however as I need to keep running the gauntlet to him. I actually will not mind if all the bosses are optional and I get to explore the world. Probably just me though, as I know many play these games for the boss fights, but the brick wall isn't for me. I prefer a crawl space, even if it's filled with barb wires and scorpions.
B_Spooky13
Member
Honestly reading this made me download the game again to replay. Game is just so good.
The first area can be tough OP. I remember playing the game for the first time and just thinking "wtf is this?" Got pissed and left the game for a while. But some persistence you'll get through it. As everyone has said.. Shortcuts are the main thing in the first area.
The first area can be tough OP. I remember playing the game for the first time and just thinking "wtf is this?" Got pissed and left the game for a while. But some persistence you'll get through it. As everyone has said.. Shortcuts are the main thing in the first area.
Triggerhappytel
Member
It's trial by fire. Through the gameplay leading up the first boss you'll need to learn to crowd-control and fight mobs, fight big enemies (executioner, werewolves, brick trolls), avoid enemies where necessary, avoid traps, open shotcuts and scavenge for items & equipment. After dying to the boss you'll then be able to level up and, combined with what you've learned up to that point makes the game progressively easier, at least in the short term.
Melchiah
Member
You should be conditioned to
inspect what's behind the wooden barrels and boxes
It sometimes seems to me, that many complaints come from those who didn't bother to explore the areas thoroughly, or just went with TL;DR mentality complaining how the game doesn't explain anything. Regarding the latter, it's still hilarious how some players didn't bother to look the surroundings in the Dream, where they spawned after their initial demise, and continued the hunt without any weapons. =D
Where's the sense of accomplishment, if the good stuff is handed to you without any effort? In that sense, it's only natural that things of importance are put further away from the lanterns.
The first run through Central Yharnam can certainly be a very frustrating experience, but if you don't find enjoyment in the challenge it's just not a game for you. It's a game that demands and rewards patience. Personally, I found that appealing, despite of all the wailing and gnashing of teeth, but it's clearly not for everyone.
Dark Souls 1 wasn't as harsh (and that was my first one, so add to that) and flowed much better for that reason.
You started in the Asylum, and it was very soft on you.
And even after that, from Undead Burg to Anor Londo, the difficulty curve was pretty smooth, aside from a couple of encounters.
After that the design gets rougher with the unfinished areas, but by then at least you had enough experience under you belt to deal with it better.
Bloodborne and, especially, Dark Souls 3, have super harsh starts, with massive crowds that gang up on you,but then become incredibly easy, and then super hard again... it's just an up and down, and doesn't feel like a smooth progression, in that sense.
Uno Venova
Banned
I personally never took on areas again after I got to the boss, I just ran through shortcuts and past enemies. I'm pretty sure that's what you're supposed to do.
Yes, I platted with the cane as well. Nearly exclusive use of the cane. Also fashion.
hmm. nope, not what you are supposed to do.
I am so ready for a sequel at this point
JudgmentJay
Member
You're free to not like it of course, but slapping a blanket statement like "bad, bad design" on it is absurd. Just like it is in the OP.
Uno Venova
Banned
Yeah that's what's so simple about it. It's not really common for someone who asks for help like a normal person to get shit on or turned away.
But when you get frustrated and start calling parts of the game bad design just because you can't beat it, of course you're going to get mocked.
DSP syndrome. lol
It is a hard section, one might even argue it's the hardest since the player is not yet familiar with the game systems and enemy patterns. And that's not even the hardest part since you'll fight the two werewolves after (that will fuck you up) and a boss unless you find the shortcut (which I didn't).
Good luck and once you get past that section the game becomes much easier.
Good luck and once you get past that section the game becomes much easier.
BB Central Yharnam is brilliantly done. I did up to NG+4 main, chalice, and DLC. The weaving of the paths, enemy placement, etc... is perfect. It reminds me of the first chunk of RE4 in execution, up to the church, mobbing, and ask of the player. Of course with far less room for error.
BB is an action game. Being an action game junky and not being able to stop playing Nioh with my +14 unacceptable sword 180 hrs plus in, I can't get enough of BB and am due for a run. And on multiple play-throughs, one of my favorite spots in BB is the beginning.
Grinding does little. I played NG to NG+5 wearing paper armor for funzies. And many games do not hand hold past and present. BB just makes you polish your skills immediately, not lull you in and feed you slowly. It may be frustrating but it is all that more rewarding. Forget too much over-advice and keep practicing. It is how we get good at everything, no? With the quantity of posting here, you could have likely beaten Cleric by now.
Best game of the almost last 10 years. Competes with VC and probably wins...
BB is an action game. Being an action game junky and not being able to stop playing Nioh with my +14 unacceptable sword 180 hrs plus in, I can't get enough of BB and am due for a run. And on multiple play-throughs, one of my favorite spots in BB is the beginning.
Grinding does little. I played NG to NG+5 wearing paper armor for funzies. And many games do not hand hold past and present. BB just makes you polish your skills immediately, not lull you in and feed you slowly. It may be frustrating but it is all that more rewarding. Forget too much over-advice and keep practicing. It is how we get good at everything, no? With the quantity of posting here, you could have likely beaten Cleric by now.
Best game of the almost last 10 years. Competes with VC and probably wins...
I'm a terrible Souls player. Gave up on DS1 not long after ringing both bells, never played DS2, gave up on DS3 in the Crucifixion Woods (fuck all the bad guys in there).......but Bloodborne...
I slotted straight in like a comfortable shoe. Actually finished this one, and started NG+
Must be the faster combat, just suits my playstyle, love the super swift dodge/sidestep and regaining health by going on the offensive.
And I found lots of insight (I think!) just by exploring, there was some down in the sewers with the rats and so on and it meant I found shortcuts and new gear etc.
I found it a hard game, don't get me wrong; I had to summon on a few of the bosses as I simply couldn't get them, but I always felt like I was getting somewhere. I remember that street of guys with the fire OP, and the guy banging on the door, but after wading through them a few times killing every one, I just started running through them - which I thought was the point of Souls games, you're not expected to kill everything in the way all the time.
And for reference:
I slotted straight in like a comfortable shoe. Actually finished this one, and started NG+
Must be the faster combat, just suits my playstyle, love the super swift dodge/sidestep and regaining health by going on the offensive.
And I found lots of insight (I think!) just by exploring, there was some down in the sewers with the rats and so on and it meant I found shortcuts and new gear etc.
I found it a hard game, don't get me wrong; I had to summon on a few of the bosses as I simply couldn't get them, but I always felt like I was getting somewhere. I remember that street of guys with the fire OP, and the guy banging on the door, but after wading through them a few times killing every one, I just started running through them - which I thought was the point of Souls games, you're not expected to kill everything in the way all the time.
And for reference:
- I never used the parry system. Couldn't get the timing figured out so gave up very early on. The guns were basically useless for me, ha.
- I never had to grind for vials, I always had enough just from wandering around.
- I never used pebbles.