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[MrPliskin]

Worst thing are the gamers that bought all those terrible things that were mentioned in this thread

You mean all those things with high profit margins that funded your favorite games? Yea, those are terrible.

Plus, who wants to help smaller development studios working on mobile platforms!? That's crazy, we should instead encourage devs to dive into an unstable industry where layoffs have become the norm instead of decreasing budgets and increasing productivity.

 

[Anteater]

You mean all those things with high profit margins that funded your favorite games? Yea, those are terrible.

Plus, who wants to help smaller development studios working on mobile platforms!? That's crazy, we should instead encourage devs to dive into an unstable industry where layoffs have become the norm instead of decreasing budgets and increasing productivity.

*shrug* I didn't say I think they're terrible, but apparently people think they are, but there's a demand, so the blame goes to the gamers, and not the company, nor the developers that chose to make some of those games.

 

[Redford]

<lots of good stuff>

Edit: For the record, this is what the FPS genre has gone through over the last few decades using the "follow the leader" model.

1. Jumping
2. Platforming
3. Alternate Fires
4. Enemy AI
5. Regen Shields / Health
6. Progression
7. Accessibility

If the industry didn't follow this model of cloning titles and features from other games, while trying to improve and tweak, then we might not have a lot of things in the FPS genre that we come to expect as "standard".

This forever.

 

[John Rabbit]

gaming is fine.

 

[crimzonflame]

1. D
2. L
3. C

 

[xxracerxx]

If the industry didn't follow this model of cloning titles and features from other games, while trying to improve and tweak, then we might not have a lot of things in the FPS genre that we come to expect as "standard".

It always makes me laugh when people latch on to a "near perfect" game in their hearts, when in my experience it is usually the first FPS they ever played and got really good at.

EDIT: Can't say I don't follow my own words as I loved, loved, loved Action Quake 2 back in the heyday.

 

[MrPliskin]

*shrug* I didn't say I think they're terrible, but apparently people think they are, but there's a demand, so the blame goes to the gamers, and not the company, nor the developers that chose to make some of those games.

I just don't understand how people can object to things like mobile gaming and motion controls. They both bring new blood into the industry (both from a consumer and developer stand point) and generate a great deal of profit that will help grow the industry and fund larger projects (the games people here want to play).

I just feel like there are more important things that are going on within the industry that we should be concerned about, as opposed to the otherwise natural order of things.

To touch on my list, here's what we should be concerned with.

Expensive Hardware - Sure, gamers like their tech and fancy graphics, but in the age of readily available iOS Devices and "Smart" devices (TV's and Blu-Ray players with Netflix, etc) expensive hardware will only phase out the major players. Instead, affordability needs to be the name of the game. Expensive fancy hardware will only further damage the industry and spear head the Apple movement into the living room.

$60 price point - Frankly, this is part of the piracy and used market problem. Were games cheaper (and hardware) they could appeal to much larger audiences willing to make impulse purchases. A lower price point on both ends could significantly help the industry to sell many more copies, and studios would be able to make more money the first year or so as consumers adjust to the lower prices.

DLC Growing Pains - This will just take time to work itself out. Right now, a lot of studios don't really know what does and doesn't work as "for pay" DLC, or how consumers will react to various delivery methods. Thus far DLC has just been a PR nightmare and on occasion the content has been shit (while others have been good, but delivery methods and pricing have been hit and miss).

 

[Jimrpg]

I think I know what you're really trying to say and what we've all known for some time now.... essentially the industry has sold out on traditional gamers like us. It doesn't give a crap about the NES/SNES gamer still trying to hang on to his past.

They are after the mainstream money and the Wii showed them how to do it, to make sure a game in the normal sense doesn't feel like a game. COD was all about making you play longer like a pokie machine, iOS gaming has undercut everyone making their games low cost but quick to get out the door.

The business side of things has ruined the creativity of games.

Its the same everywhere else... we used to get beautiful structures like the pyramids, the eiffel tower, great wall of tower, now its all about increasing profit and boring out buildings that make every city look the same.

I disagreed with everyone saying how wonderful it was that the Wii was attracting new audiences... its true that audience didn't stay long, didn't care for games like final fantasy and metal gear solid, they'll enjoy their just dance and wii sports.... heck i doubt mario galaxy even did anywhere near the levels of just dance.

Thats why i have to disagree with you disliking the iOS platform... while its true that heaps of devs rush their projects and don't give a shit anymore, there's always one or two indie devs who will look to change the game... and iOS allows them to do that better than any other platform.

 

[rpmurphy]

Don't blame CoD4 copycats on the game's success, blame the shoddy copycats and the people that make the decisions to create them. Besides, this is hardly a new phenomenon in the industry; it's been happening since Pong.

 

[Riposte]

Some japanese game fans are mad salty about japan taking a dive and wrpgs skyrocketing in popularity.

Actual WRPG fans are mad salty because no mainstream dev makes WRPGs anymore. Hold those poorly made shooters and action games to your chest.

 

[Derrick01]

Actual WRPG fans are mad salty because no mainstream dev makes WRPGs anymore. Hold those poorly made shooters and action games to your chest.

And I'm one of them. It doesn't have anything to do with what I said though.

 

[BurritoBushido]

I hope the title never gets fixed for how dumb this topic is

 

[eek5]

It's not really COD4's fault that other developers try to copy its structure but completely fuck up the balancing of their own game in the process.

 

[les papillons sexuels]

the worst thing to happen to gaming is...

Developers thinking they're film makers, and publishers acting like producers.

Overblown budgets, games that have become linear scripted sequences, cutscenes everywhere, and the death of creativity in the industry.

 

[MrPliskin]

the worst thing to happen to gaming is...

Developers thinking they're film makers, and publishers acting like producers.

Overblown budgets, games that have become linear scripted sequences, cutscenes everywhere, and the death of creativity in the industry.

Creativity is far from dead in the industry, you just have to know where to find it.

i.e. Steam, iOS, Android, XBLA and PSN.

 

[les papillons sexuels]

Creativity is far from dead in the industry, you just have to know where to find it.

i.e. Steam, iOS, Android, XBLA and PSN.

and in which of those platforms are you talking about a fully priced retail game?

 

[MrPliskin]

and in which of those platforms are you talking about a fully priced retail game?

What does "fully priced retail" matter? You should have put qualifiers on your statement ahead of time if you wanted to be general and vague.

Either way, there is tons of fun and creativity to be had on those platforms for cheap prices that will more than scratch the itch for fresh experiences. The choice is your whether or not you want to enjoy them.

 

[Derrick01]

Creativity is far from dead in the industry, you just have to know where to find it.

i.e. Steam, iOS, Android, XBLA and PSN.

I'll echo his reply and say that it's not the same with these tiny indie games. This industry didn't get as popular as it is now on the backs of $5 indie games. It was with franchises like FF and MGS and GTA (and many more) that were innovating with higher budgets.

We just reached the threshold where the higher budgets got too high and no one takes risks anymore. A higher budget back then wasn't studio crippling if the game bombed.

 

[Riposte]

Guys creativity isn't dead, just look into this garbage pail. Wait... hold on, let me push this rotten banana peel out of the way...

 

[Eusis]

Yeah, the problem is the erosion of the middle ground in many ways. It's also why I get really frustrated when people cry that $40 or even $30 is too much for a handheld game after iOS, those were my bastion for lower tier titles that weren't out and out indie titles, and to see a lot of people being outright dismissive there is disconcerting, and the possibility of handhelds going largely ignored going forward is one of the last things I want to see happen in the industry. That, or handhelds getting into the same ditch consoles have.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I'll echo his reply and say that it's not the same with these tiny indie games. This industry didn't get as popular as it is now on the backs of $5 indie games. It was with franchises like FF and MGS and GTA (and many more) that were innovating with higher budgets.

We just reached the threshold where the higher budgets got too high and no one takes risks anymore. A higher budget back then wasn't studio crippling if the game bombed.

To expand on this.

The marketbase to sell such high budget wares to has not grown at the rate you'd want. This gen itself a slight contraction overall. This means you're risking more and more money for a stagnating marketbase.

 

[Rafaelcsa]

1. Super Mario 64 - For shifting game design away from focused, tightly-crafted challenges and towards boring "sandbox" environments which don't contain any actual compelling content.

2. Dual analog controllers - Seriously, did the dumbass who first decided that the dual shock needed a right thumbstick not realize that you kind of already need your right thumb to use the face buttons? In order to have effective camera control, you need a mechanism that can be operated without rendering half of the available buttons on the controller useless. (You know, like a MOUSE? Or a gyroscope or IR pointing device.) Unfortunately, most gamers who grew up with the archaic dual stick design over the past 15 years seem to be very hostile to change and are unwilling to accept vastly superior alternatives. Stockholm's Syndrome at its finest.

3. Microsoft Xbox and everything it stands for (shoddily built overpriced hardware, dudebro gaming, extremely narrow genre focus, lack of innovation, focus on superfluous graphical effects rather than smooth framerates, etc.)

Great points.

It's about time bloated game design like sandbox or "cinematic" games start giving way to tight, challenge-focused games once again.

Dual analog controllers are fine for some games, but there certainly are better alternatives for others. As can be seen in this thread, though, people won't allow them to die off at all. Better to stagnate than to have to learn new things, I guess.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

1. Massive game budgets.

2. The death of anything that isn't an extra A over the last AAAAA game we had on HD consoles. Related: Those developer excuses after they foolishly picked the HD twins, ignored one of the best selling systems of all time, and consequently exploded in a ball of low frame rate particles. It was used games! It was piracy! It was the consumer! Their fault!

3. Anything that makes it hard to play a game in five/ten years. See: patches for a broken game hosted on dead servers, multiplayer hosted on dead servers, useful/relevant DLC hosted on dead servers, online lock codes and the like.

 

[MrPliskin]

I'll echo his reply and say that it's not the same with these tiny indie games. This industry didn't get as popular as it is now on the backs of $5 indie games. It was with franchises like FF and MGS and GTA (and many more) that were innovating with higher budgets.

We just reached the threshold where the higher budgets got too high and no one takes risks anymore. A higher budget back then wasn't studio crippling if the game bombed.

I disagree. There are plenty of experience in the indie market that closely resemble that of FF, andF there are also titles like Repulique in the works that people seemingly don't want to give the time of day because they are on a mobile platform, despite it being pretty creative and sharing close ties to titles like MGS.

Frankly, most gamers aren't giving these games *enough* attention, which is why the market is so reproductive at this point.

Let us not forget how closely a lot of these titles reflect games of the NES/SNES era in design and mechanics (with much tighter art direction and gameplay) A game doesn't need to be $60 in order to help the industry move forward or grow, and so long as people refuse to let go of those misconceptions, the industry will remain stunted.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Great points.

It's about time bloated game design like sandbox or "cinematic" games start giving way to tight, challenge-focused games once again.

Dual analog controllers are fine for some games, but there certainly are better alternatives for others. As can be seen in this thread, though, people won't allow them to die off at all. Better to stagnate than to have to learn new things, I guess.

Ranting about how dual analog controllers represent stockholm syndrome is just as silly as ranting that motion controls are inherently bad and never should have been invented.

Honestly, the point about having to take your thumb off the face buttons to use the right analog stick is petty. You also have to take your thumb off one face button to push another - uh oh, we better progress forward by only having one face button so you never have to move your thumb

Nearly every well designed game that uses dual analog in some manner, even if only for camera adjustment, either:

1. Uses the shoulder buttons for primary actions leaving your right thumb free to live on the thumbstick except when you are taking a break to perform an aux. action.

2. Does not literally require the player to be adjusting the camera at the same time they need to be pushing a face button.

Now, I've seen some people damned and determined to play a game the wrong way (because "I'll play it MY way!"), such as insisting they have to adjust the camera in an action game at the exact same time they push a jump button even though, watching them play, they didn't have to. The camera was fine.

In the case of dual analog game pads, a reason why they're a standard is the same reason the QWERTY keyboard hasn't been replaced in, what, a hundred years now? Because it works.


The only attitude problem many gamers have is being unwilling to expand their vocabulary to include complimentary interfaces, like motion controls. In the same way that we do have alternatives for entering text besides the keyboard; but we don't abandon the keyboard all the same.

It's like it blows certain people's minds that you could simultaneously like a dual shock pad and a wii remote.

But some rationalize that because people won't accept a new thing, that they're merely clinging foolishly to an old thing that should be abandoned. These extremes should be kept off the table. It does nobody any good.

 

[nincompoop]

Honestly, the point about having to take your thumb off the face buttons to use the right analog stick is petty. You also have to take your thumb off one face button to push another - uh oh, we better progress forward by only having one face button so you never have to move your thumb

Uh, my thumb covers all four face buttons on every controller I own. I can hit any number of them at the same time.

Nearly every well designed game that uses dual analog in some manner, even if only for camera adjustment, either:

1. Uses the shoulder buttons for primary actions leaving your right thumb free to live on the thumbstick except when you are taking a break to perform an aux. action.

2. Does not literally require the player to be adjusting the camera at the same time they need to be pushing a face button.

Now, I've seen some people damned and determined to play a game the wrong way (because "I'll play it MY way!"), such as insisting they have to adjust the camera in an action game at the exact same time they push a jump button even though, watching them play, they didn't have to. The camera was fine.

The problem is that in first and third person shooters (which I hear are pretty popular these days), you DO have to constantly adjust the camera to aim at stuff. These games are FACTUALLY better when using a mouse or pointer or gyroscopic controller simply by virtue of the fact that they don't suffer from this limitation. (Not to mention that all of these control methods are FAR more accurate than aiming with a thumbstick.) While the dual shock design technically works for certain games, it still provides heavy limitations on what the games that use it can accomplish.

 

[Omega]

Three years ago everyone loved EA and hated Activision for being the evil greedy corporation.

How quickly things change

 

[Salsa]

Three years ago everyone loved EA and hated Activision for being the evil greedy corporation.

How quickly things change

what's funny is that Activion's support of Steam at least shows they're compenent on their PC outings and care at least a bit about the audience.

 

[Lothars]

3. Microsoft Xbox and everything it stands for (shoddily built overpriced hardware, dudebro gaming, extremely narrow genre focus, lack of innovation, focus on superfluous graphical effects rather than smooth framerates, etc.)

I agree with you to a point but not exactly for the reasons but I would include microtransaction everything and alot of things they have done in the last 7 years.

 

[EvilDick34]

While i agree with two of the three you chose OP, motion gaming is here to stay and you will have to accept it sooner or later. I think motion gaming will get much better if VR can actually come into play and not be a joke.

Other then that my 3 things that have made gaming shitty:

1. Dev's raising prices on games- this has only contributed to people buying used game, so the industry can bitch all they want but they caused the used game craze.
2. DRM- has punished gamers who pay for their stuff but all the while pirates continue to pirate games.
3. 4 hour games- I remember how games use to give you an epic journey, like Half life 1 and 2, not anymore for the most part.

 

[AppleMIX]

what's funny is that Activion's support of Steam at least shows they're compenent on their PC outings and care at least a bit about the audience.

Um, what?

MW2 doesn't have dedicated server support and MW3 doesn't have any FOV options or ranked dedicated servers (IE basically worthless).

Supporting Steam, sure but at the end of the day Origin works fine.

 

[Salsa]

Um, what?

MW2 doesn't have dedicated server support and MW3 doesn't have any FOV options or ranked dedicated servers (IE basically worthless).

Supporting Steam, sure but at the end of the day Origin works fine.

rofl, i figured MW3 had dedicated servers since that's was the last thing i read way back on a reddit AMA. I take that back.


Origin is a piece of crap tho

 

[Riggs]

I ll say it again. No road rash reboot makes this entire gen suck. Who is with me!!??

 

[Chemo]

Ever play Silent Hill: Shattered Memories?

Shattered Memories is bad regardless of the input method. Using it as an example of one of motion control's shining moments... well, it's pretty much the exact opposite of a compelling argument.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Shattered Memories is bad regardless of the input method. Using it as an example of one of motion control's shining moments... well, it's pretty much the exact opposite of a compelling argument.

It's like most Wiimote implementations. Moments of beauty among a sea of the unnecessary.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

The worst thing to happen to gaming is Gamers like the OP.

 

[Rahxephon91]

I don't get it, the top 2 are great things to have happened.

At least you could have had an avatar from a good wrpg, like Deus Ex or The Witcher. Alpha Protocol even. Something other then ME.

 

[kittens]

Wow, I disagree with you on all three points.

 

[Vire]

The worst thing to happen to gaming is Gamers like the OP.

.

 

[Sothpaw]

I actually bought a Wii for Metroid Prime 3. Terrible mistake; series is so much better on the GC controller.

 

[codswallop]

Honestly, the point about having to take your thumb off the face buttons to use the right analog stick is petty. You also have to take your thumb off one face button to push another

You don't have to take your fingers off a mouse to press the buttons. Perhaps having an analogue stick on the top or back of a controller could work (has Vita done anything worthwhile with the back screen being some sort of camera control?). At the least it'd be an interesting experiment.

In the case of dual analog game pads, a reason why they're a standard is the same reason the QWERTY keyboard hasn't been replaced in, what, a hundred years now? Because it works.

No, because everyone's used to it. DVORAK works much better (I've tried it, though I didn't stick with it because they keys on my existing keyboard made it ultra-confusing) than QWERTY or AZERTY or any other commonly-used layout but it's really too late for a large-scale change.

 

[rCIZZLE]

1. Regen health in shooters. This destroyed the genre for me... perks and unlocks didn't change the way it's played nearly as much.

2. This idea that every game needs a online multiplayer mode. Seriously why did this start within the last few years? GTA, Max Payne, Mass Effect, Bioshock, etc are fine, high selling games series without tacked-on MP.

3. Of course the way DLC is treated by most of the industry - a way to withhold content for extra $ - is probably the worst thing in recent times and should really go without saying.

 

[Rated-Rsuperstar]

I'm not a fan of retail specific preorder bonuses. Cause 99% of the time it's on disc content that's been locked. It would be nice to get a real preorder bonus for once like a games soundtrack.

 

[Glass Rebel]

Eh, although I hate most of the newer gaming conventions (mishandled DLC, tacked-on multi/co-op, regen-health, pre-order bonuses, FPS catered to consoles and every downside that comes with that, over-budgeted AAA blockbusters... you get the idea) I've been doing pretty well avoiding most of the bullshit.

 

[pottuvoi]

1. Over dependance on scripting in games.
Games like Call of Duty are prime example. (win by running by enemies and automagically friendly units advance forward.)
This has also lead to the level design which has single route forward and in worst cases automagic death when you try to be creative.

2. Mission dependancy in Sand Box games.
GTA pretty much destroyed the genre which was free of typical gameplay restrictions and scripting.

3. Over protection of player and ridiculously long tutorial sections.
It's bad when you have to go trough unnecessary tutorial, but is infuriating to have game where tutorial pops up 3/4th of a game to explain new things.
Even worse if the abilities were locked unnecessarely up to that point.
--

In general the feeling of freedom and awe has been lost from many game, even if those games are advertized to being free and to have freedom of choices.

Games like Pirates! had limited world and interactivity, but things like ability of early retirement in whatever time you want with a single image with description of the life you earned was more rewarding than any ending I have seen in years.

 

[whalleywhat]

You know, you don't have to gaming.

 

[Longshot]

EA
Day 1 DLC
Invasive DRM
Online passes
CoD games

Never really had to deal with the majority of those 10 years ago, but when we complain about these things the big publishers (EA, mostly) label us as "entitled". It's like they really don't want my money.

 

[InsaneLuchador]

Digital distribution on consoles. It's where everything is headed, and if Microsoft and Sony remain the sole gatekeepers, we're all boned. No competition and full price games all of the time.

 

[Longshot]

Digital distribution on consoles. It's where everything is headed, and if Microsoft and Sony remain the sole gatekeepers, we're all boned. No competition and full price games all of the time.

Build a gaming PC.

 

[Fjordson]

You know, you don't have to gaming.

Yeah...that's sort of what I always think in topics like these. If gaming ever becomes such a painful hobby for me I certainly won't stick around long. Seems like an almost masochistic thing for some people these days :lol