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[The Verge] Final Fantasy XVI has a medieval approach to diversity

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Bo_Hazem

Banned

Nixing people of color in service to making a game ‘rooted in reality’ not only runs contrary to the game’s own goal of having broad appeal but also to the game’s own internal world-building.​


FFXVI_MediaKit_02.png


When Naoki Yoshida, producer of Final Fantasy XVI, was doing the first round of press tours to ramp up hype for the game last year, he gave an interview with IGN talking about the game’s apparent lack of diversity. When asked if players can expect characters of color in the game, Yoshida had this to say:
“Our design concept from the earliest stages of development has always heavily featured medieval Europe, incorporating historical, cultural, political, and anthropological standards that were prevalent at the time. [...] Ultimately, we felt that while incorporating ethnic diversity into Valisthea was important, an over-incorporation into this single corner of a much larger world could end up causing a violation of those narrative boundaries we originally set for ourselves. The story we are telling is fantasy, yes, but it is also rooted in reality.”

Essentially, Yoshida said that because they’re basing the world of Valisthea on their idea of what the European continent was like in the past, the cast for their totally made-up world has to be all white. The quote was a rare miss from a generally well-liked developer, and it naturally upset fans of color.

It’s easy to see where Yoshida’s sentiments in his IGN interview fall apart. I could trot out the standard response that gets used whenever a work of fantasy fails to include people of color in the name of “historical accuracy,” aka “blah blah blah, it doesn’t make sense that chocobos, Eikons, and magic are permitted but people of color is a step too far.”

Continue this gibberish:

It’s easy to see where Yoshida’s sentiments in his IGN interview fall apart. I could trot out the standard response that gets used whenever a work of fantasy fails to include people of color in the name of “historical accuracy,” aka “blah blah blah, it doesn’t make sense that chocobos, Eikons, and magic are permitted but people of color is a step too far.”


I could also crack open the history books to point out that medieval Europe was never all white all the time (the Moorish kingdom of Spain sends its regards). But beyond the general fallacy of “no people of color in medieval Europe,” Yoshida’s quote doesn’t even make sense within the context of one of Final Fantasy XVI’s other stated goals — to have broad appeal.

As someone who’s been Black and a Final Fantasy fan all her life, I, too, had a problem with Yoshida’s answer. Final Fantasy has never been perfect with regard to its diversity, but the more recent games had been getting better. This idea of Final Fantasy XVI being “rooted in reality” is likely going to end up hurting the developers’ other, arguably more important goal for FFXVI, which is for the game to reach as big an audience as possible.

I had the opportunity to sit down with Yoshida and the senior development team behind FFXVI, and I asked if, since that interview with IGN, Yoshida had the opportunity to hear feedback and if he had anything to say to the fans of color who may be turning their back on the game.
“I believe that with Final Fantasy XVI, we weave together a variety of peoples and cultures set in this kind of sweeping fantasy narrative and world, and one that we strived to create with care and respect,” Yosida answered through translator Michael-Christopher Koji-Fox. “We hope that when players finally are able to take up the game in their own hands, that they will be able to see what we’ve aimed for and will hopefully ultimately be able to connect with that unique experience.”
So… judging from this answer, not really.

In my interview with Yoshida, he spoke about the concern that Final Fantasy wasn’t bringing in fans like it used to. “We’ve seen that our fans are distancing themselves from the series,” he said. “There are not as many people playing the series as the series has gone on. Those numbers are going down. There is a fear of the series becoming more niche.”

The developers believe that a full-action game, one with darker, more mature themes that resembles the more recent God of War games, is what will bring people back to the fold. But while Ragnarok is a game firmly rooted in the customs and culture of Norse mythology, it still takes the time and care and effort to include characters of color like Angrboda. That game was successful in part because its developers did not let a notion of “reality” constrain what they could do with their characters and world-building. It’s a lesson a lot of new games are taking to heart, symbolizing much-needed progress within the industry.


Yoshida talked about how “over-inclusion” of people of color would “violate narrative boundaries” and, in his answer to my follow-up, brought up the different peoples and cultures the development team included in FFXVI. In introducing the game, he gave an overview of the different kingdoms and factions vying for control of the all-powerful mothercrystals.

One such kingdom, The Dhalmekian Republic, has an aesthetic and architectural style that doesn’t fit with the flying buttresses and gothic cathedrals of the rest. It’s an arid desert nation, and screenshots of the land feature domed structures that kinda look like mosques one might find in North Africa or the Middle East. A description of Dhalmekia shared during the Final Fantasy XVI press event called it a desert kingdom that thrives via trade, bringing to mind the west African kingdom of Mali and the great caravan of Mansa Musa. If we want to step away from real-world analogies, the republic’s name itself, Dhalmekia, is very reminiscent of the kingdom of Dalmasca from Final Fantasy XII, whose capital city Rabanastre was extremely overt in its references to Middle Eastern culture, architecture, and people.

Given all that, it rings a bit hollow to say it would strain narrative credulity to include people of color in your game that’s based on European history, politics, whatever, then include a place in that game that not only references real-life places that were not all white but also references a place that even with your series’ own canon was also not all white.

So if the goal for Final Fantasy XVI is to have broad appeal, wouldn’t it make sense then to make a game that appeals to the breadth of the people you want spending money on your game, including people of color?

Diversity works. That’s true of video games and movies at large and even within Final Fantasy itself. Final Fantasy XII, one of the games that feels most in line with FFXVI, included characters of color. Critically acclaimed MMORPG Final Fantasy XIV, the Final Fantasy Yoshida himself came from, has a wonderfully diverse player base and includes cultures from around the world in its many settings while having diverse NPCs throughout. Two of the best Final Fantasy characters from the last decade or so of the series are Black men.

Ultimately, the Final Fantasy XVI development team wants to tell the story they want to tell in the world they want to tell it in. It just sucks that they feel the best way to do that was through an all-white cast in a world that isn’t even consistent with that homogeneous vision.


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Ash Parrish​

VIDEO GAMES REPORTER
Ash is a Video Games Reporter for The Verge with a focus on covering marginalized gamers and their communities, writing about the intersection of video games and sex, and finding a way to make the general video gaming public care about the Overwatch League.

https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/1/23620217/final-fantasy-xvi-diversity-naoki-yoshida-interview
 
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The verge of edge.
Sounds like a good title for an obscure PS2 game.

Why? I find this more like an entertaining article. Like a free ticket to the circus.
You've ever played a semi-dangerous physical game as a kid and then there was that one kid who took it too far and ended up injuring himself and probably a few others along the way? The few kids who took it too far are on GAF.
 
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Bo_Hazem

Banned
Disclaimer: Had to renew my gold membership, surfed around for an article worth sharing and found this to be brilliant. Step 2: Gift myself.

You've ever played a semi-dangerous physical game as a kid and then there was that one kid who took it too far and ended up injuring himself and probably a few others along the way? The few kids who took it too far are on GAF.

Nick Offerman Popcorn GIF by NBC
 
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Varteras

Gold Member
"Fucking white people making games about white people. It's ignorant and racist"

The game was made by Japanese people.

"Well they need to stop being incels and simps for white people. They should take their Thai food and bullshit Mandarin language and go back to Korea. We should have dropped more than two nukes during the Vietnam War."
 
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brian0057

Banned
"Fucking white people making games about white people. It's ignorant and racist"

The game was made by Japanese people.

"Well they need to stop being incels and simps for white people. They should take their Thai food and bullshit Mandarin language and go back to Korea. We should have dropped more than two nukes during the Vietnam War."
Asian people are Schrödinger's Whites.
 
Who the fuck is even asking these questions?

Imagine being face to face with some of the most intelligent and creative minds in the industry and this is the fucktarded shit you ask.

Burn it all down.
Honestly, it's more fun than being asked the same set of questions about the game's story and gameplay over and over. Even if it's a question most people here don't like, at least it's a different question(to shake things up).
 
Square Enix should probably take the approach that WB took with Hogwarts Legacy and just ignore the idiots. Even responding further would be a mistake. They should tell Naoki Yoshida to just not answer any more questions about this ever and also not give any review copies to woke outlets.
 
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"Fucking white people making games about white people. It's ignorant and racist"

The game was made by Japanese people.

"Well they need to stop being incels and simps for white people. They should take their Thai food and bullshit Mandarin language and go back to Korea. We should have dropped more than two nukes during the Vietnam War."
The genius of this post is how it combines two completely different extremes into two quotes. The first wouldn't say the second, and vice versa, but it just flows so well together.
 

DonkeyPunchJr

World’s Biggest Weeb
Square Enix should probably take the approach that WB took with Hogwarts Legacy and just ignore the idiots. Even responding further would be a mistake. They should tell Naoki Yoshida to just not answer any more questions about this ever and also not give any review copies to woke outlets.
Yup the worst possible thing you can do is try to explain yourself and prove to these people that you’re not racist. As soon as you do that, they smell blood and go into a frenzy. They will keep on shrieking until you beg for forgiveness and flagellate yourself, or until they find some new target to bully and browbeat.
 

GHG

Gold Member
Honestly, it's more fun than being asked the same set of questions about the game's story and gameplay over and over. Even if it's a question most people here don't like, at least it's a different question(to shake things up).

You think this is a "different" question coming from the modern Western gaming press? It's not. Beyond that it's absolutely worthless.

There are millions of things they could ask but this is where the western world is apparently - distracted and divided.
 

Varteras

Gold Member
The genius of this post is how it combines two completely different extremes into two quotes. The first wouldn't say the second, and vice versa, but it just flows so well together.

Lol the sad part is, I honestly had a conversation with a super leftist college student years ago who more or less made similar statements about groups of people that showed a complete lack of self-awareness. It was clear they were just as confused about where they stood as I was by the end of the conversation. I kinda channeled that here
 
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brian0057

Banned
Honestly, it's more fun than being asked the same set of questions about the game's story and gameplay over and over. Even if it's a question most people here don't like, at least it's a different question(to shake things up).
My favorite band of all time is Metallica.
A few years ago, the drummer, Lars Ulrich, had a podcast on Apple Radio called It's Electric, where he would interview other musicians.
They're probably the most engaging talks I've watched because Lars, being a world renowned performer himself, would ask some of the most interesting questions and provide even more insight to what the guest was talking about.

The point of all this is that devs should interview devs because some of the most interesting conversations happen when both parties have first hand experience in the process of making games.
 
You think this is a "different" question coming from the modern Western gaming press?
To a Japanese developer? Yes. It is. They're normally not asked about stuff like this.

It's not. Beyond that it's absolutely worthless.
That depends on who cares 🤷‍♂️
There are millions of things they could ask but this is where the western world is apparently - distracted and divided.
Work your way up in journalism and ask, or find a popular streamer who is asking his viewer base 'guys, what questions should I ask?' and make a suggestion.

My favorite band of all time is Metallica.
A few years ago, the drummer, Lars Ulrich, had a podcast on Apple Radio called It's Electric, where he would interview other musicians.
They're probably the most engaging talks I've watched because Lars, being a world renowned performer himself, would ask some of the most interesting questions and provide even more insight to what the guest was talking about.

The point of all this is that devs should interview devs because some of the most interesting conversations happen when both parties have first hand experience in the process of making games.
They do, during events like JP livestreams and TGS. They're even nice enough to translate them for us just in case. You might have not tuned in because the headline wasn't spicy enough to catch your attention.
 
Lol the sad part is, I honestly had a conversation with a super leftist college student years ago who more or less made similar statements about groups of people that showed a complete lack of self-awareness. It was clear they were just as confused about where they stood as I was by the end of the conversation. I kinda channeled that here
Honestly, what I've noticed with these types of people is that: they claim they're for "people of colour", but are actually pretty racist themselves. It's like they hide behind the veil of righteousness and uses it as a sort of red herring for their actual beliefs.

For instance, I had a coworker who was obsessed with Tupac and BLM, but talked shit behind our black coworker's back to her clique of coworkers. It was an odd thing to experience.
 
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Varteras

Gold Member
Honestly, what I've noticed with these types of people is that: they claim they're for "people of colour", but are actually pretty racist themselves. It's like they hide behind the veil of righteousness and uses it as a sort of red herring for their actual beliefs.

For instance, I had a coworker who was obsessed with Tupac and BLM, but talked shit behind our black coworker's back to her clique of coworkers. It was an odd thing to experience.

Oh for sure. Like how they champion cultural appropriation. Which is really just disguising racism as righteousness. You're telling people they can't engage in something because of their skin color and then patting yourself on the back for it. Made even more ridiculous by the fact people who are actually of those cultures typically love seeing other people engage in it.
 
Honestly, what I've noticed with these types of people is that: they claim they're for "people of colour", but are actually pretty racist themselves. It's like they hide behind the veil of righteousness and uses it as a sort of red herring for their actual beliefs.

For instance, I had a coworker who was obsessed with Tupac and BLM, but talked shit behind our black coworker's back to her clique of coworkers. It was an odd thing to experience.
lockdown-dont-move.gif


Ah, I see that you're trying to play 'closed thread bingo' over there.
 
Oh for sure. Like how they champion cultural appropriation. Which is really just disguising racism as righteousness. You're telling people they can't engage in something because of their skin color and then patting yourself on the back for it. Made even more ridiculous by the fact people who are actually of those cultures typically love seeing other people engage in it.
Yup. I'm Asian, but I adore my Western clothing, like my rancher hat. I wouldn't be surprised if someone comes up to me and says I can't wear it because I'm Asian. It's like, "how dare you tell me what I can and can't wear!"

If they want monotony in fashion, they should go to North Korea, where NO ONE is allowed to deviate from the norm.
 

Bo_Hazem

Banned
Zealots see everything as political statements. It can't be just a creative choice, it has to serve a doctrinal purpose.

There's no arguing with people who think that way, best to ignore them.

I love games when they respect the lore. I loved for example AC Origins as it felt authentically ancient Egypt.

Some people are obsessed with cocktails, but I think trying each fruit juice would add more "variety" to your visits.
 
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Brigandier

Member
I love games to respect the lore. I loved for example AC Origins as it felt authentically ancient Egypt.

Some people are obsessed with cocktails, but I think trying each fruit juice would add more "variety" to your visits.

I was personally offended that there was no white people or Asians in AC Origins, I felt personally attacked and was outraged at this disgusting blatant racism.
 
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