• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

The Wheel of Time Series - Discussion Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
Really looking forward to AMOL in Jan, I've been slowly working through the series again on audiobook and I'm into Towers of Midnight now. Sanderson did a good job in my opinion. I found it funny how over the course of the series I grew to enjoy Nynaeve so much more and dislike Egwene so much, a total 180 for me personally.

I really didn't care for how the Dark Tower series ended, really the last three books of it. So I hope I don't get burned on this last book in the same way I felt about the Dark Tower series.
 
BTW, per the above, if you're an audiobook fan, the readers for the WoT are amazing.

Michael Kramer and Kate Reading, highly recommended.
 
Krowley said:
Go for it.

ASOIAF is the better series. More consistent with better writing. This has more of a swashbuckling style. Less realism, a lot more whimsy, magic, and classic fantasy. I personally do think the world-building in the wheel of time, overall, is a lot more interesting and unique than ASOIAF, and it's certainly easier to root for the characters (though that's not exactly an advantage, depending on your preferences).

In terms of tone, if ASOIAF is Martin Scorcese and Werner Herzog, this series is Stephen Spielberg and Cecil B. DeMille. More fun, but not quite as intense or near as gritty.

And it lags in the middle. Very bad. But all in all, this is one of the funnest and most addictive fantasy stories ever, and at its best, it can be incredibly enjoyable.
Click to expand...
ASOIAF went off a cliff after the 3rd book and I am starting to doubt if he knows what the fuck he is doing. I never could have imagined saying this a few years ago but I think I prefer WoT more now because it has a clear story. I feel like Martin did not set that out from the start and now doesn't know where to go next. It has amazing writing but it can't just all he style and shock value. It will be interesting to see if Martin can salvage this (if he even lives long enough).

And Perrin sucks. He was a total pussy and bitch until the last book. I hated reading his chapters about how much his vagina hurt and how much he missed and loved Faile. Matt was a million times better because he is a badass and hilarious. And even though Rand went crazy at least he was doing badass shit.
 
bionic77 said:
ASOIAF went off a cliff after the 3rd book and I am starting to doubt if he knows what the fuck he is doing. I never could have imagined saying this a few years ago but I think I prefer WoT more now because it has a clear story. I feel like Martin did not set that out from the start and now doesn't know where to go next. It has amazing writing but it can't just all he style and shock value. It will be interesting to see if Martin can salvage this (if he even lives long enough).
.
Click to expand...

I'm still enjoying them myself, though he is running into some of the same problems Jordan started getting into in the later parts of the WOT series. He has too many plot threads now, and it takes two books to tell a story that should fit into one. He always had to do a lot of character hopping, but it's starting to get a little out of hand now.

But still, I really liked the last book, personally. And I think things are set up now for a really good followup.
 
Krowley said:
I'm still enjoying them myself, though he is running into some of the same problems Jordan started getting into in the later parts of the WOT series. He has too many plot threads now, and it takes two books to tell a story that should fit into one. He always had to do a lot of character hopping, but it's starting to get a little out of hand now.

But still, I really liked the last book, personally. And I think things are set up now for a really good followup.
Click to expand...
I did not like the last book. It is just more of the same. Everything just falls apart a little more in each successive book. And he keeps adding characters and different areas of the world. Do we even definitely know who the protagonist and antagonists are more even though the series is supposedly drawing to a conclusion?

But he is a good enough writer that I will still come back even if I doubt that it will ever be finished or that he knows where he is going.
 
Cyan said:
BTW, per the above, if you're an audiobook fan, the readers for the WoT are amazing.

Michael Kramer and Kate Reading, highly recommended.
Click to expand...

Both of them also did the Stormlight Archive audiobook. If you guys like reading or listening to Wheel of Time, then I really recommend Stormlight Archive.
 
tenchir said:
Both of them also did the Stormlight Archive audiobook. If you guys like reading or listening to Wheel of Time, then I really recommend Stormlight Archive.
Click to expand...
That series is going to kill people sanity.

Only ONE book....so many loose ends.....added to the fact that Brandon is constantly working on so many side projects. We will be lucky to see the end of it before we retire.

I wish I hadn't read the first......its an amazing book....but I hove 0 patience.
 
My wife and I have been reading this series for the whole year. Just started it at the beginning of the year. We are on The Gathering Storm.

Im finishing up Knife of Dreams. So much to say but I can say its easily one of the best stories out there.
 
tenchir said:
You mean when Cadsuane tries to lord herself over Rand based on her years of experience as an AS and Rand kindly reminds her that he is
also an Aes Sedai and the oldest Aes Sedai in the world with over hundreds(or was it 1000?) years of experience
and she stares back in awe.
Click to expand...

That part was awesome. Neo Rand in ToM was so refreshing.

Ape Gone Insane said:
Since ASOIAF has been brought up, where would you guys place The Belgariad, Malazan Book of the Fallen, Robin Hobb books and Sword of Truth?

Aside from Tolkien and Martin, they are the other books that are frequently brought up in discussions around Wheel of Time/High Fantasy literature.
Click to expand...

Of the first four I've only put time into Malazan, but it's definitely a great read so far. The first book (written 10 years before the 2nd) is a tough read to get into, but starting with 2 the writing improves and you really start to get into it. I'm only in book 3 right now though (hoping to finish before AMoL releases), but so far it's worth it. The world Erikson has built is incredible, truly vast with so much going on, so if you're into that in WoT I'd definitely recommend checking it out.
 
Meteorain said:
TBH you could put any woman who can wield the One Power and belongs to an organisation of some sort as under the category "Stupid Pretentious Bitch".

The sheer audacity of some of them to believe they know everything about anything and their "given right" to lord of others is beyond words. Cadsuane just sort of represented this feeling to it's utmost annoyance, thus my hatred for her.

It's brilliant when truth bombs get dropped on their head that they barely knew anything.
Click to expand...

I dunno man, the kinswomen are generally more down to earth than most of the other female One Power users in the series.
 
<---------- Who can tell me what that is?

You guys really need to get to Knife of Dreams, which has a great prologue, and to The Gathering Storm, which has a chapter named The Last That Could Be Done. Like, really. Towers of Midnight has excellent chapters and things come together really well. I mean, hell, if you haven't gotten that far you never get to see what's up with Verin, which was amazing. Veins of Gold was a great concluding chapter as was With the Choeden Kal.

I've already read the prologue and first few chapters to the book, it's good. And I've heard something about the ending that made my jaw drop in disbelief, can't wait to get to that part.

Edit: Been reading to series since the mid nineties, looking forward to the end more than anything I've ever been excited for. I've never waited so long for a piece of media in my life as AMoL. I've re-read the series several times and I've been trying to get through the series again the last few months before AMoL is released, but I'm not going to make it. I can't believe it's only a month away. Right now I'm trying to see if I can just get through books 5 -13 before I read the last one, but I don't think I have the self-control for that, as it would take me well into summer to do.

Edit 2: What the HELL at skipping Perrin's chapters in ToM???!!! WTF. Perrin COMPLETELY redeems himself for being somewhat difficult to read in previous books. Did you seriously not read the end of that book where he becomes one million percent awesome?! And to others who haven't gotten far: many characters you may dislike really end up growing and redeeming themselves. My view of Egwene completely changed after TGS, and even Cadsuane became more understandable. Faile goes through tough times but grows. Even Pevara is changed through circumstances. You learn about
Slayer's
childhood in the beginning of AMoL and it isn't pretty.

It seems to be a trend amongst people who read WoT that they don't grasp the idea of how radically the social and political dynamics of a land would alter when all One Power users are ALL female. Myself I didn't really get this for a long while until I read an interview with RJ explaining why he writes such strongly opinionated/willed female characters. It goes to show how many fantasy readers are uncomfortable with this derivation from the norm of fantasy.

Edit 3: Thread needs some art. Best Aviendha painting I've ever seen:

heartlines_by_unefleur-d5c0u70.jpg


And yes, this is what Tuon actually looks like. I expect minds to be blown:

gallery_12282_191_64580.jpg


As an aside, I hate almost every fan art ever made for WoT, these are among the best.
 
Cyan said:
I can confirm that Sword of Truth is terrible.

Robin Hobb is pretty great, but definitely a different flavor. I'm not sure I'd really call it high fantasy or epic fantasy.
Click to expand...

Sword of Truth, I like the first few books, then it went total Ayn Rand retard... The fuck is that shit just throwing strawman after strawman textbook cases for Ayn Rand.

Robin Hobb makes a great read, but I didn't like her new books that much, it's just story about people on a boat, not much going.
 
I read books 1 through 9. I do not recommend anyone do the same. These books are extremely bloated and full of trivial storylines that add little to the story. By book 9 I just skipped everything that had a female point of view or Perrin and I missed nothing of value. The prose is also absurdly over descriptive; a good author shows, not tells.

That being said I acknowledge that this series is a pillar of the genre. I hope it ends well.
 
Esiquio, please link that Tuon art again, it does not show.

Also, I have to say that some people's worldviews really, REALLY bleed through their opinions over certain characters and what they are doing. I mean, REALLY. Wheel of Time is a mirror. If you do not like someone in it, the fault is most likely within :P

All the Mat-worship (I love him just as much as everyone else in the book) and Perrin-bashing usually means that Mat represents the "this is what I wanna be" and Perrin represents the "meh, that is most likely how I would behave, but I do not want to admit" part of our self.

I mean..okay. Perrin whines a lot about Faile? What would YOU do if the woman you love
got kidnapped by those that show no mercy and no remorse? And also have one power on their side, while all you have is a few asha'man?Hm?
.

I know I would break down immediately. That would be the only thing to keep me going. Of course Rand does not feel the same way about women in general. Why? Because he was raised alone by Tam, and the only relationship he had before was a formal one. That gives quite a different perspective to one.

I do not know, I might be just blindly ranting, but I feel like (and I have read this series many, many times) that ALL viewpoints are understandable. It is not like characters are suddenly acting inconsistent. Before every Nynaeve freakout, I KNEW that she will do it because it was the logical thing to do - for her. Same with Aviendha, Egwene, Perrin, Mat, Rand, everyone.

All is quite logical. That is never a sign of bad writing, in my book.

grumble said:
I read books 1 through 9. I do not recommend anyone do the same. These books are extremely bloated and full of trivial storylines that add little to the story. By book 9 I just skipped everything that had a female point of view or Perrin and I missed nothing of value. The prose is also absurdly over descriptive; a good author shows, not tells.

That being said I acknowledge that this series is a pillar of the genre. I hope it ends well.
Click to expand...

Come back a few books later when you feel like certain actions "make no sense whatsoever", and then you will have to go back and read those skipped parts. Then they will make sense.
 
V_Arnold said:
All the Mat-worship (I love him just as much as everyone else in the book) and Perrin-bashing usually means that Mat represents the "this is what I wanna be" and Perrin represents the "meh, that is most likely how I would behave, but I do not want to admit" part of our self.
Click to expand...

I was a Rand man myself from the beginning, hence my disappointment with his relative absence in some of the later books.
 
I am amazed at some people, who despite reading a 14 book series, will say "This plot thread makes no sense, this is stupid." Everything will come back around if you read and pay attention instead of going "This character, I don't like. I'm just going to read through it but not actually read it or just skip the section all together" That's why some of you are getting confused and things don't seem like they make sense.

I see so many people who book hop as well. Going from CoS to WH or just skipping 8-10 to get to the later books are missing so much (Though I will admit that not too much happens in Crossroads of Twilight) but everything is set up for the final book(s) at this point. They were all playing catch up since so many of the books and points of view were literally months out of sync with each other.

Give it a chance, pay attention, and EVERYTHING will make sense.
 
V_Arnold said:
Esiquio, please link that Tuon art again, it does not show.

Also, I have to say that some people's worldviews really, REALLY bleed through their opinions over certain characters and what they are doing. I mean, REALLY. Wheel of Time is a mirror. If you do not like someone in it, the fault is most likely within :P

All the Mat-worship (I love him just as much as everyone else in the book) and Perrin-bashing usually means that Mat represents the "this is what I wanna be" and Perrin represents the "meh, that is most likely how I would behave, but I do not want to admit" part of our self.

I mean..okay. Perrin whines a lot about Faile? What would YOU do if the woman you love
got kidnapped by those that show no mercy and no remorse? And also have one power on their side, while all you have is a few asha'man?Hm?
.

I know I would break down immediately. That would be the only thing to keep me going. Of course Rand does not feel the same way about women in general. Why? Because he was raised alone by Tam, and the only relationship he had before was a formal one. That gives quite a different perspective to one.

I do not know, I might be just blindly ranting, but I feel like (and I have read this series many, many times) that ALL viewpoints are understandable. It is not like characters are suddenly acting inconsistent. Before every Nynaeve freakout, I KNEW that she will do it because it was the logical thing to do - for her. Same with Aviendha, Egwene, Perrin, Mat, Rand, everyone.

All is quite logical. That is never a sign of bad writing, in my book.



Come back a few books later when you feel like certain actions "make no sense whatsoever", and then you will have to go back and read those skipped parts. Then they will make sense.
Click to expand...
You are entitled to your opinion, but for me Perrin became really annoying after he saved the Two Rivers. That was the high point of his character for me until the last book where his balls dropped and he finally redeemed himself, but much too late for me to really give a shit about him anymore. I think the fact that Perrin was so likable prior to Faile makes it all the more frustrating. I remember hating Matt in the early books because he was such a whining baby. He seems to become more of a hilarious badass as the series progresses (though unfortunately Sanderson never really nailed his voice, which is a shame).
 
bionic77 said:
You are entitled to your opinion, but for me Perrin became really annoying after he saved the Two Rivers. That was the high point of his character for me until the last book where his balls dropped and he finally redeemed himself, but much too late for me to really give a shit about him anymore. I think the fact that Perrin was so likable prior to Faile makes it all the more frustrating. I remember hating Matt in the early books because he was such a whining baby. He seems to become more of a hilarious badass as the series progresses (though unfortunately Sanderson never really nailed his voice, which is a shame).
Click to expand...

In TGS, he faltered with Matt, in ToM, he has done better, and in AMoL, with what's revealed so far, (I think) he's nailed the Matt voice.
 
Cyan said:
BTW, per the above, if you're an audiobook fan, the readers for the WoT are amazing.

Michael Kramer and Kate Reading, highly recommended.
Click to expand...

I concur with this.

Every time a new book comes out I listen to the audio books prior (easy to do during my commute).

Kramer and Reading really did an amazing job putting individuality to the characters through voice.
 
Esiquio said:
It seems to be a trend amongst people who read WoT that they don't grasp the idea of how radically the social and political dynamics of a land would alter when all One Power users are ALL female. Myself I didn't really get this for a long while until I read an interview with RJ explaining why he writes such strongly opinionated/willed female characters. It goes to show how many fantasy readers are uncomfortable with this derivation from the norm of fantasy.

Edit 3: Thread needs some art. Best Aviendha painting I've ever seen:

heartlines_by_unefleur-d5c0u70.jpg


And yes, this is what Tuon actually looks like. I expect minds to be blown:

gallery_12282_191_64580.jpg


As an aside, I hate almost every fan art ever made for WoT, these are among the best.
Click to expand...

There are a lot of female characters in power positions, but it seems (dark one, moridin, rand/etc) the more powerful ones are still male. So I never felt that females were all that different from other fantasy in WOT, just that RJ wrote them weird sometimes. Plus I see Nynaeve/Egwene/Nin etc as free willed from the start, before they were exposed to the world or knew they had power.

As for art, the Japanese covers were the only things that really did anything for me.

Wasn't Tuon also bald? Maybe I'm mixing her up with someone else.
 
Seeing this series pop up from time to time on GAF actually has me considering getting back into it. I've been reading history and more classic literature in the last few years, so I'm getting a bit of a pull to get back into some classic fantasy like I used to love. As a teenager I read 1-6 at least twice and I can recall the plot to those with a little prompting. I'm also pretty sure that I read 7 and 8, and probably 9 as well. But for the life of me I can't recall what happens in them.

In the interests of time I think I'm probably just going to try to find some expanded synopsis online for 7, 8, and 9 and then just jump into 10-14. No way that I would put in the time for a more comprehensive re-read, just too much good stuff out there to go through all that again. Still it's kinda a neat feeling to look forward to finishing up something that I started reading when I was 10 or so.
 
I think if you'd finished 9, you'd probably remember what happened in it. ;)

If you do prefer synopses, check out the reread over at tor.com. Detailed synopses and plenty of commentary from Leigh Butler.
 
Cyan said:
I think if you'd finished 9, you'd probably remember what happened in it. ;)

If you do prefer synopses, check out the reread over at tor.com. Detailed synopses and plenty of commentary from Leigh Butler.
Click to expand...

Ok, yeah :). I peeked on Wikipedia and I've totally read 9 before. 10 as well I think. I still tossed them on the library queue to consider for my upcoming reread. I know that it seems odd to not know if you've read them or not, but this was at a time when I was tearing through books and they really didn't sink in much. I was aware of the main events looking at a synopsis, but I couldn't have told you what events go with what books. I'll start in on 9 and if it seems too familiar I'll just head straight to 11.

Yeah, I just stuck 4,800 or so pages worth on my library queue, I'm actually quite giddy. This should be fun, reading a big old fantasy series is like coming home to me.
 
Rinoa said:
There are a lot of female characters in power positions, but it seems (dark one, moridin, rand/etc) the more powerful ones are still male. So I never felt that females were all that different from other fantasy in WOT, just that RJ wrote them weird sometimes. Plus I see Nynaeve/Egwene/Nin etc as free willed from the start, before they were exposed to the world or knew they had power.

As for art, the Japanese covers were the only things that really did anything for me.

Wasn't Tuon also bald? Maybe I'm mixing her up with someone else.
Click to expand...

No, IIRC she was bald.
 
Cyan said:
I think if you'd finished 9, you'd probably remember what happened in it. ;)

If you do prefer synopses, check out the reread over at tor.com. Detailed synopses and plenty of commentary from Leigh Butler.
Click to expand...

It depends how long ago you read it. ;) I'm vaguely aware of what happened overall but am going through a re-read now so that it's not like coming back to an RPG I played 2 years ago.

The long (1993) running FAQ is also a great read if you just want to clear up specific "did this happen?" / "what happened at point X" / "let's have an exhaustive debate about how this works in this universe" questions. (I always enjoyed the earth connections article.)
 
tenchir said:
You mean when Cadsuane tries to lord herself over Rand based on her years of experience as an AS and Rand kindly reminds her that he is
also an Aes Sedai and the oldest Aes Sedai in the world with over hundreds(or was it 1000?) years of experience
and she stares back in awe.
Click to expand...
I don't remember this part. Gonna have to dig up the book and find it.
 
I really need to do a re-read. I think last time I did it I got till Winter's Heart. have to admit that as much as I love the series it started to drag a bit. But those books where a huge part of my youth, so I just have to power through, because I really want to know how Sanderson is gonna finish this.
 
JeTmAn81 said:
Wait, Tuon is black? Where did it say that? Are all the Seanchan supposed to be black?
Click to expand...

It mentions her dark skin several times. And there are white Seanchan, too. Quite a few. They seem to be a big sprawling multi-racial empire.

Also, according to Jordan, (he said it in an interview somewhere) their slurring accent is basically supposed to be a Texas or southern accent.
 
Krowley said:
It mentions her dark skin several times. And there are white Seanchan, too. Quite a few. They seem to be a big sprawling multi-racial empire.

Also, according to Jordan, (he said it in an interview somewhere) their slurring accent is basically supposed to be a Texas or southern accent.
Click to expand...

Oh, they're "drawl" or however he describes it five million times?
 
OnPoint said:
Oh, they're "drawl" or however he describes it five million times?
Click to expand...

Yeah. For some reason I always had them sounding kind of french in my mind, because he always mentions that they sort of slur their words, which is how french accents sound to me.

tenchir said:
I always assumed that Tuon had brown skin instead of black. Is the Sea Folk all black or are they multi-racial too?
Click to expand...

I'm almost positive they're not multi-racial, but I may have missed something.
 
I stopped reading the series about 3 books in. I honestly hated just about every character in the series, especially our "hero," Rand, who just grated on me every step of the way.

I liked the overall concept, and had heard such good things about it that I wanted to give it a chance. I don't even remember if I finished the third book, I honestly don't remember much of it. I still have them on my bookshelves, but I'm done with the series.
 
Clegg said:
So.

Is Mazrim Taim really who he says he is?
Click to expand...
No way.

Jordan confirmed in interviews that he's not
Demandred in disguise
, which I think was also made fairly clear in one of the later books... but there's got to be more to him. He's just highly suspect. How did he get a seal, for one thing? Why does he use phrases like "so-called Aiel"?
 
MAzrim is defiantly not a forsaken. he might have been one of the 100 companions .

also the end of book 13 with rand on dragonmount is pretty great
 
Cyan said:
No way.

Jordan confirmed in interviews that he's not
Demandred in disguise
, which I think was also made fairly clear in one of the later books... but there's got to be more to him. He's just highly suspect. How did he get a seal, for one thing? Why does he use phrases like "so-called Aiel"?
Click to expand...

In in the current book, it's clear that
he's directly working for the forsaken who gave him orders.

I think the reason he said so-called is that he had never seen an Aiel before, just their description.
 
Cyan said:
No way.

Jordan confirmed in interviews that he's not
Demandred in disguise
, which I think was also made fairly clear in one of the later books... but there's got to be more to him. He's just highly suspect. How did he get a seal, for one thing? Why does he use phrases like "so-called Aiel"?
Click to expand...

He could be doing the bidding of another.

He's definitely changed the Black Tower into something evil.

And we still have to find out where Demandred is actually holed up.
 
tenchir said:
I think the reason he said so-called is that he had never seen an Aiel before, just their description.
Click to expand...

But that wouldn't make sense. The only reason to phrase it that way is if you knew what the Aiel used to be like in the Age of Legends. He's also used a few other phrases from then, IIRC.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Is the Demon Slayer series worth the time?
2
55
2K
BennyBlanco replied
The greatest movie composition of all time is
41
713
Dithadder replied
The greatest nation state composition of all time is
6
243
calico replied
The Boroughs | New Series | Official Teaser Trailer | Netflix
4
179
The Cockatrice replied
I feel free for the first time
2 3
107
2K
Diddy X replied
Top Bottom