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[Koren]

I found interesting to see that in hardcore gamers, two games are mentioned : Katamari and Ico. Both of those are NOT graphical masterpieces. Ico is far from being technically great (not so far away from the original PSOne version), but its art is magnificient. Katamari is probably not easy to code due to the number of objects and scale, but still graphically-wise, many people will find it quite bland. Still, we can enjoy those games. That's the reason why I don't really mind if Wii is underpowered.

I probably consider myself an hardcore gamer, because I'll keep looking for a gem, reading forums, trying everything I could find interesting. I don't give a shit to public choices, I'll look for games I enjoy. That can be series I like, sometimes, but often, that's simply something new and fresh because I've played so many games. Katamari, Unison, Trauma center, Ouendan, etc. Anything.

I think there's several kind of "hardcore gamers", with different views, and personally, I welcome Wii for anything new it could bring, and I don't mind the technical side at all (as long as developpers try at least a little)

 

[Mario]

Wii has much less of these sort of problems PLUS it has the public perception of being easier to use (not the reality mind), this makes is less intimidating to new users, while at the same time makes it 'so what?' to a lot of experienced gamers. This is also the reason why casuals are more likely to pick up a racing game or guitar hero, since they'll get a controller fashioned along the lines of something familiar.

This is also why the Eyetoy, Singstar and Buzz games have also been very successful on PS2 - incredibly simplified and much more intuitive controllers.

I've seen examples of "non gamers" go out and buy a PS2 the next day after playing Singstar or Eyetoy, much in the same way that a lot of people are getting into Wii now. These games have shifted a lot of PS2s in the last couple of years in Australasia.

Interestingly, the Eyetoy, Singstar and Buzz games like a lot of the more casual Wii games are also limited in the graphics department (though Singstar has always looked pretty stylish to me).

Accessibility through a non intimidating interface is a key selling point to capture this market.

Of course, in my experience, those people who went out and bought a PS2 for Singstar etc never bought any other software (except more Singstar titles ).

 

[Starchasing]

Of course, in my experience, those people who went out and bought a PS2 for Singstar etc never bought any other software (except more Singstar titles ).

A sale is a sale is a sale.

 

[ZeMMiK]

I really hope that the talent who make ´hardcoregames´ is not going to be wasted on those casual games. I have the feeling that a normal game gets a harder time to be financed....and we going to get a lof of Cookingmama shit....

 

[jordan0386]

Expanded Audience isnt a real market...I wish they would get away from that

Maybe when "we" get up their in age, maybe...But the current crop of Older non gamers...they are not for a reason, they didnt grow up with this technology, and they have no use for it...My mother hates cell phones and hates when I play videogames...feels I could be doing more with my time

Im supposed to believe any company will reach the women like this, men no less?

 

[Eteric Rice]

It's also because of your cursed gamer brain. I don't know your experience, but I've been playing home consoles since pong. All I had to do there is to slide this one thing back and forth. Then came the Atari with its stick and button. A little more complex, but as a kid (opposed to adult) there was no fear of experimentation. I'm sure many here started with NES/SNES which is even more complex, but adapted to it with the same kid fearlessness.

Now strip away that knowledge, and look at the dual shock or the 360 pad with pure eyes. They're goddamn monsters. There's buttons all over the damn thing, and even the sticks have buttons in them! Give that to someone 30+ years old that's never used a controller before, and they don't know what the hell to do with it. It's too itimidating, and the control method as it relates to the onscreen functions is too abstract.

Wii has much less of these sort of problems PLUS it has the public perception of being easier to use (not the reality mind), this makes is less intimidating to new users, while at the same time makes it 'so what?' to a lot of experienced gamers. This is also the reason why casuals are more likely to pick up a racing game or guitar hero, since they'll get a controller fashioned along the lines of something familiar.

Pretty obvious really why Wii is a success, and why it's not going to ever stop being a success. This huge casual market doesn't care about HD either, so that hardly matters. These are people playing flash games or gaming on their cell phones. Give them something to relax with when they get home from work, and it's money in the bank. Nintendo's bank.

I think what might make the Wii easier for many is that motions are more natrual than pressing buttons. They don't have to look down on the pad for the "X" button to open the door, when simply turning your hand will perform the same action.

And I agree with you. Even for me, it got a bit too complex. It's the main reason why I haven't taken the time out to play Valkyrie Profile 2. While it looks really interesting, there's just to much stuff to try to remember.

 

[TheGreatDave]

I really hope that the talent who make ´hardcoregames´ is not going to be wasted on those casual games. I have the feeling that a normal game gets a harder time to be financed....and we going to get a lof of Cookingmama shit....

If they remain profitable they'll continue to be made. Really, what else can companies like Valve and Epic do?

I don't see what the problem is with casual games anyway. As a 21 year old guy whos been gaming for years I'm very happy that there's lots of games coming out that don't require huge time investments. The fact I can play a game of Mario Party, PacMan CE or Planet Puzzle League in 20 minutes means I'm more likely to put hours in to them then a big, epic game, just because there's no initial intimidation of it's length.

 

[Eteric Rice]

If they remain profitable they'll continue to be made. Really, what else can companies like Valve and Epic do?

I don't see what the problem is with casual games anyway. As a 21 year old guy whos been gaming for years I'm very happy that there's lots of games coming out that don't require huge time investments. The fact I can play a game of Mario Party, PacMan CE or Planet Puzzle League in 20 minutes means I'm more likely to put hours in to them then a big, epic game, just because there's no initial intimidation of it's length.

You forgot Elite Beat Agents.

I cut you.

 

[Aaron]

Expanded Audience isnt a real market...I wish they would get away from that

Maybe when "we" get up their in age, maybe...But the current crop of Older non gamers...they are not for a reason, they didnt grow up with this technology, and they have no use for it...My mother hates cell phones and hates when I play videogames...feels I could be doing more with my time

Im supposed to believe any company will reach the women like this, men no less?

How old is your mother? 70? Or perhaps Amish?

Seriously, my mother couldn't live without her cell phone. She has no interest in videogames, doesn't even like a remote control for the tv, but I don't think it would be too difficult to get her interested in the wii once exposed to it. Of course, there will always be people who are close minded when it comes to things, no matter their age, but as things are, the wii is accessable as a console can get.

 

[jordan0386]

40, AA

But with all they already are responsible for, I dont see gaming as an option...maybe the initial investment, but I dont see many parents, down the line, spending more than they did on "Day 1"

Maybe, but I just dont see the marketing investment being made...Nintendo can say whatever they want, I have yet to see "parents" and the like in advertising

Its always been about the young adult and the kids, imo

 

[Fafalada]

On the other hand, PSP software sales have been awful.

You could argue they are par for the course on handhelds - current tie is 4:1, and growing(slowly).
GBA after 6-7 years only mustered 4.6:1.
DS is at 4.5+ right now, but the curve is a lot different from PSPs in the last year.

Ironic part is that DS is easier(and cheaper) to pirate then GBA was.

 

[Safe Bet]

This point may be negated if what some people, such as Luke Smith, believe is true, which is that Nintendo will cut the Wii generation much shorter than previous.

..around the same time PS3 would be due a sleek redesign?

 

[titiklabingapat]

40, AA

But with all they already are responsible for, I dont see gaming as an option...maybe the initial investment, but I dont see many parents, down the line, spending more than they did on "Day 1"

Maybe, but I just dont see the marketing investment being made...Nintendo can say whatever they want, I have yet to see "parents" and the like in advertising

Its always been about the young adult and the kids, imo

What.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Frankly, I've come around to hoping that Kent is right.

If Nintendo had just priced the thing at 299.99, accepted a modest profit/at cost model, and had decent graphics... they could have owned the next ten years.

But all MS or Sony really need to regain the crown is release a comparable wand (and since Nintendo is using stock, licensed parts; anyone can license these parts too) and coupled with price drops to mainstream levels... they can easily suck all the buzz away.

This is the danger in Nintendo's plan. Despite the BS rhetoric, they didn't spent their R&D budget developing proprietary gyros that are superior to the stock parts lying around, and they didn't invest anything in graphics.

So now if Sony of MS wants to emulate the Wii mote, it's easily done. No big R&D required. And it's not like Nintendo's remote is going to be vastly superior because of their massive R&D. It's going to be just as inaccurate/sloppy as anyone else's gyros. So what will they have?

They better start developing a killer lineup and stop with the Reggie quotes of "40 percent of American's have never even heard of Wii. Can you believe that? That means we can sell Wii sports for another 2 years" crap.

 

[jordan0386]

What.

Aaron asked me a ?...I guess I should of quoted him

 

[Starchasing]

Frankly, I've come around to hoping that Kent is right.

If Nintendo had just priced the thing at 299.99, accepted a modest profit/at cost model, and had decent graphics... they could have owned the next ten years.

But all MS or Sony really need to regain the crown is release a comparable wand (and since Nintendo is using stock, licensed parts; anyone can license these parts too) and coupled with price drops to mainstream levels... they can easily suck all the buzz away.

This is the danger in Nintendo's plan. Despite the BS rhetoric, they didn't spent their R&D budget developing proprietary gyros that are superior to the stock parts lying around, and they didn't invest anything in graphics.

So now if Sony of MS wants to emulate the Wii mote, it's easily done. No big R&D required. And it's not like Nintendo's remote is going to be vastly superior because of their massive R&D. It's going to be just as inaccurate/sloppy as anyone else's gyros. So what will they have?

They better start developing a killer lineup and stop with the Reggie quotes of "40 percent of American's have never even heard of Wii. Can you believe that? That means we can sell Wii sports for another 2 years" crap.

I think you could tank almost any company.

 

[Gozan]

How old is your mother? 70? Or perhaps Amish?

40, AA

Too much information, man.

 

[jordan0386]

Too much information, man.

classic:lol didnt even think of that...for the slow anyway...African-American

 

[legend166]

I think the last page alone of this thread made my IQ go down by 50%.

 

[John Dunbar]

4) Kids

Like people, but smaller. Enjoy playing Hannah Montana and Spongebob games, but also family-friendly hardcore gamer fare like Zelda. Wish Pokemon were real.

Don't we all?

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Dragona's going to have an aneurism when she sees this thread.

Going to?