CrushDance
Banned
ruby_onix said:
Really?
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The Wii is torturing the graphics whore inside of me.
- Thread starter CurseoftheGods
- Start date
Really?
My main problem with the Wii graphics is that Nintendo didn't even do much to correct obvious flaws. For example, shadows still usually act all crazy when changing surfaces (e.g., shifting from one polygon to another).
I'm also disappointed in the shittiness of the color output. Sure, Wii might be a last-generation system, but some things like 24-bit output should've been made massively easier to do, while having the games still look somewhat better than last-generation games.
So, I have been able to tolerate the crappy polygon counts and lack of next generation effects, but continually tolerating obvious flaws has become difficult even on fun games. It's sort of like if Sony had released PlayStation 2 with higher-than-PS1 polygon counts but simply provided no way to store a hardware Z Buffer.
I do have to say, though, that my last purchase was Wario Ware, and my next will probably be Super Mario Galaxy. It isn't because of graphics, though. It's just that Nintendo has dropped the ****ing ball when it comes to software for the Wii.
I'm also disappointed in the shittiness of the color output. Sure, Wii might be a last-generation system, but some things like 24-bit output should've been made massively easier to do, while having the games still look somewhat better than last-generation games.
So, I have been able to tolerate the crappy polygon counts and lack of next generation effects, but continually tolerating obvious flaws has become difficult even on fun games. It's sort of like if Sony had released PlayStation 2 with higher-than-PS1 polygon counts but simply provided no way to store a hardware Z Buffer.
I do have to say, though, that my last purchase was Wario Ware, and my next will probably be Super Mario Galaxy. It isn't because of graphics, though. It's just that Nintendo has dropped the ****ing ball when it comes to software for the Wii.
CrushDance
Banned
loosus said:
REALLY? They dropped the ball and yet your still buying their games? The Wii has flaws unlike the other 2 systems and you still own it?
It's not just a case of one console having slightly better graphics than the other. That's always been the case, but it's very different this time with completely different technology.
Graphically...
Last gen, Xbox > Gamecube > PS2
This gen, 360 = PS3 >>>>>> Wii
Consoles have taken a generational jump, but this time televisions have taken a generational jump as well. The difference between standard and hi-def is significant, and it won't be long before standard is considered ancient technology. You can't just ignore this when making a product.
It's like a band releasing their album on cassette only. There's nothing wrong with the music, but you have to keep up with the technology. Ignoring hi-def is a major mistake by Nintendo.
Graphically...
Last gen, Xbox > Gamecube > PS2
This gen, 360 = PS3 >>>>>> Wii
Consoles have taken a generational jump, but this time televisions have taken a generational jump as well. The difference between standard and hi-def is significant, and it won't be long before standard is considered ancient technology. You can't just ignore this when making a product.
It's like a band releasing their album on cassette only. There's nothing wrong with the music, but you have to keep up with the technology. Ignoring hi-def is a major mistake by Nintendo.
chibcicylist
Banned
Parch said:
Yeah, but everyone has casette players. Only a VERY small portion actually owns, or can afford CD players. In 5 years, yeah, releasing them on CDs would be a great move.
_Alkaline_
Member
Parch said:
This argument is powerfully backed up by the incredible sales of the PS3 and 360 and the comparatively poor sales of the Wii.
Mostly goes to retial evidently... Nintendo's making around $15 per unit from most estimates, and in the west they're eating the cost of a potential $50 game release.Fight for Freeform said:
Honestly, I think had Nintendo just licensed XNA and made Hollywood DirectX compliant, it would've been enough with the current motherboard. The real stumbling block with Wii isn't the chipset, it's the documentation and libraries...Fight for Freeform said:
Hardware familiarity is really the key stumbling block here... better TEV documentation and tools would dramatically improve the current PS2esque situation and we'd start finally seeing games that looked better than standard Xbox fare.loosus said:
I think we're bound to see the best looking Wii content coming from Japan because (1) the region's overwhelmingly backing the platform, (2) JP publishers aren't afraid of putting top talent on lower end platforms and (3) JP developers aren't as hesitant to really fully explore boutique architectures. Dewy, DQ Swords and REUC all look pretty great already, and they're relatively small budget projects from somewhat smaller teams (DDR team, 8ing, and a portion of the RE4 team respectively).
Charlatanized
Member
Generally speaking, I enjoy Wii quite a bit. However, I do find myself being bothered sometimes when looking at the latest Wii screens thrown up here on NeoGAF. I'm not expecting Mass Effect or Metal Gear Solid 4 or anything, but I, like most human beings, enjoy things that are aesthetically pleasing (we are talking about video games here). It's not what's under the Wii's hood that bothers me (though admittedly, it might start to get to me toward the end of this generation)--it's a matter of effort that developers put (or, in this case, don't put) into their work. See, I'm generally satisfied with the Wii's capabilities when they are actually taken advantage of; unfortunately, this seems to rarely happen. I mean, were half a year in and the results have been so inconsistent that even us message board nerds seem to be sketchy on what exactly the thing is capable of, graphics wise. I've posted examples below of what I'm visually content with on Wii, and I can only hope that this--and beyond this--is what the future generations of Wii games will look more like. Am I alone in being satisfied with visuals like this (assuming they become the norm)? To me, these games show that the little box has something worthwhile in there. Now lets put some effort into this, devs.
Well, they've said that their (secret at the time) intention was to make a $100 console, and that they went slightly over. Presumably $120. Despite Nintendo's hatred of selling hardware at a loss, Sony proved that a $50 loss is just plain good business, since you can easily earn more than that from the software. And Nintendo played around with $10 losses with the GameCube.CrushDance said:
Then MS announced the price of the tard pack at $300. On the Revolution price, Iwata says "We're not telling, but it's definitely going to be less than $300." When pressured to narrow it down some, he said "Okay, less than $250." He wasn't going to reveal the price until after Sony did. He told shareholders that he couldn't guarantee it would be sold for a profit at launch.
Then Sony announced their price at $599 You Ess Dollars, and the whole internet erupted at the joke that Sony was quickly becoming.
Then Iwata announced $249.99, the absolute highest he could've possibly priced the console at, without being called a liar.
No - I've never noticed it. Unless it's an actual ugly game which I don't own any of on the Wii. But there are also ugly games on the other consoles too. Wii Sports and Wii Play look great. They might be simple, but they're nice and extremely clean.CurseoftheGods said:
If I want to enjoy my new TV's picture, I'm just as likely to put on Twilight Princess as I am Kameo or Gears. Would Zelda look better on the 360? Obviously. Is it ugly? I don't think so.
Come to think of it, lately I've been playing a lot of Sonic on the VC, and it looks fantastic on my TV. I guess I just like things that look nice to me.
I think more important than raw graphic "quality" is a graphic cohesion. I don't have a problem with the Wii's relatively subpar graphic capabilities, as long as developers put enough effort into the art to give it a generally pleasing aesthetic.
Good examples of this are things like Dewy's Adventure. Technically impressive? Not in the least. Nice to look at? You bet. Games like Super Paper Mario and LOZ:TP follow this model of stylized graphic design; pleasing to the eye in their own respective graphic styles, creating art inspiring enough to incite the imagination.
Hopefully more Wii developers will fall into pace with this. Stop trying to recreate "realistic" graphics on the Wii. It doesn't work. Whether we like to admit it or not, we've all spoiled by next-generation graphics to some degree. Yeah it sucks when the other guys have canvas' and oil paints and all you have is some crayons and that really thin recycled paper they gave you in kindergarden that rips ridiculously easily, only frustrating the creative process that much more, but that doesn't mean you can't do some impressive art with it.
Good examples of this are things like Dewy's Adventure. Technically impressive? Not in the least. Nice to look at? You bet. Games like Super Paper Mario and LOZ:TP follow this model of stylized graphic design; pleasing to the eye in their own respective graphic styles, creating art inspiring enough to incite the imagination.
Hopefully more Wii developers will fall into pace with this. Stop trying to recreate "realistic" graphics on the Wii. It doesn't work. Whether we like to admit it or not, we've all spoiled by next-generation graphics to some degree. Yeah it sucks when the other guys have canvas' and oil paints and all you have is some crayons and that really thin recycled paper they gave you in kindergarden that rips ridiculously easily, only frustrating the creative process that much more, but that doesn't mean you can't do some impressive art with it.
CurseoftheGods
Banned
JoeMartin said:
Quoted for justice.
Charlatanized said:Generally speaking, I enjoy Wii quite a bit. However, I do find myself being bothered sometimes when looking at the latest Wii screens thrown up here on NeoGAF. I'm not expecting Mass Effect or Metal Gear Solid 4 or anything, but I, like most human beings, enjoy things that are aesthetically pleasing (we are talking about video games here). It's not what's under the Wii's hood that bothers me (though admittedly, it might start to get to me toward the end of this generation)--it's a matter of effort that developers put (or, in this case, don't put) into their work. See, I'm generally satisfied with the Wii's capabilities when they are actually taken advantage of; unfortunately, this seems to rarely happen. I mean, were half a year in and the results have been so inconsistent that even us message board nerds seem to be sketchy on what exactly the thing is capable of, graphics wise. I've posted examples below of what I'm visually content with on Wii, and I can only hope that this--and beyond this--is what the future generations of Wii games will look more like. Am I alone in being satisfied with visuals like this (assuming they become the norm)? To me, these games show that the little box has something worthwhile in there. Now lets put some effort into this, devs.
Yes, this is beutiful for last gen. I enjoy my wii , but it's the truth that wii graphic cannot deliver the game for this century.
Eteric Rice
Member
You know, even though it's not "technically" impressive... The new NiGHTS has a LOT of charm to it.
chibcicylist
Banned
Llyranor said:
Not yet.
Well, not often. Not yet.
gconsole said:
I'm so torn myself. The Nintendo fanboy in me wants the Wii for Mario Galaxy, but the techy inside me that just dropped 2G on an HDTV says VOMIT! But then the Nintendo fanboy starts crying (as they do) and the techy feels bad, and tries to let the Nintenboy play Motorstorm, but the Nintenboy just keeps crying and mumbling things like SONY AM CRY and 1UP TA BIAS, and the then the techy strangles and kills the Nintenboy, but then another Nintenboy clone pops up (as they do) and wants the Wii again, until he sees Red Steel screenshots...then even he starts laughing. I think I'll buy a Wii anyway. Maybe. See? Damn.
I actually like that the Wii is a weaker system because it is delivering on the visual styles I actually wanted to see. Maybe some are pleased with realism in games, but for me it looks boring. I am much more interested in the visuals being presented in games like Dewey, Treasure Island Z, NiGHTS, Boogie, SonicATSR, etc. It forces developers to get creative artistically rather than depending on raw power to push graphics technically in an post-apocalyptic and way overused style. This is the main reason I DONT have an XBOx360 yet. Viva Pinata is one of the few games that remotely follows the style I want to see and even then it doesnt exactly look like I want. The wii is exactly what I had in mind visually.
dirtmonkey37
flinging feces ---->
Fatghost said:
Yeah, I almost always play my Wii with friends nowadays. It's not very fun otherwise.
Sadly, I am not enjoying the latest Zelda, even after 20 hours of working my way through it, the title just doesn't resonate with me in any way.
WiiSports...onlyFunWithFriends....
And those are the only two games I have. I have no interest in any other titles currently available with the exception of Warioware. I'll purchase that in the future.
If I was a developer at a company and I liked trying to push a system to get graphics out of it, I would probably pick 360 or PS3 to develop on if I could. If I liked pushing innovative gameplay, I might be more interested in the Wiimote.
So I could see a lot of the developers that are really good at pushing graphics hardware being on 360/PS3 projects, and not leaving as many devs that are good at that for Wii development. And the management of the teams might be OK with that arrangement as they may view that they need to target graphical pieces of a game more in PS3/360 to get the title to sell well as compared to Wii. That would mean that it would take more time for Wii's graphical capabilities to be shown across a lot of games. Not sure if this is how it really is playing out, but that seems like it could be the case for some teams.
So I could see a lot of the developers that are really good at pushing graphics hardware being on 360/PS3 projects, and not leaving as many devs that are good at that for Wii development. And the management of the teams might be OK with that arrangement as they may view that they need to target graphical pieces of a game more in PS3/360 to get the title to sell well as compared to Wii. That would mean that it would take more time for Wii's graphical capabilities to be shown across a lot of games. Not sure if this is how it really is playing out, but that seems like it could be the case for some teams.
Great Rumbler
Member
gconsole said:
Who cares? Honestly, who sits around and says "Man, I wish the Wii would produce the most amazing game ever made, I'm so upset that all these really fun games don't have 4XAA and anitrophic filtering and thirty layer of bumpmapping!" For goodness' sake people, just play the games and have a little bit of fun for once instead of constantly looking for the next big thing!
Good graphics are only good until the next game comes along, but truly fun games will [almost] always remain fun.
chibcicylist
Banned
Great Rumbler said:
Look around you....
Great Rumbler
Member
chibcicylist said:
*looks around*
Oh yeah, this is GAF...
Musashi Wins!
FLAWLESS VICTOLY!
Buy an Xbox.
Seriously, everyone knew it was going to be about the same as the GC. All this shock and regret going on. Nintendo wanted to make a splash and money, and they've accomplished both. Phil Harrison would make a rumble type pullback speech about BluRay if he could change things in their favor.
Seriously, everyone knew it was going to be about the same as the GC. All this shock and regret going on. Nintendo wanted to make a splash and money, and they've accomplished both. Phil Harrison would make a rumble type pullback speech about BluRay if he could change things in their favor.
Amir0x said:
Why must you always try to bait this forum with your trolling? :lol
Luckily for you, developers (most of them) are at the behest of their publishers, and their publishers will follow the most money for the least cost. The only exceptions are studios which try to SELL you on visuals to sell their engines (Epic, ID coming to mind).
StevieP said:
Bzzt, I would call Gears an extremely awesome showcase of gameplay in addition to its visuals. In equal regard. So would most people, judging by how well it was received.
Oh, what's that? You can have both gameplay AND graphics? Oh. Guess someone forgot to mention that on the latest press release
