Metallix87
Member
Exactly. That's what some people aren't getting.
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The Wii U Debacle: Should Nintendo Abandon the Wii U Game Pad?
- Thread starter Metallix87
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Not exactly comparable- 3D hasn't been dropped, two models with 3D are still being made for their handheld, and there are zero games that use 3D that are unplayable on the 2DS.
You can turn off the 3D on a 3DS, you can't opt not to use the Game Pad, that makes it much harder to remove.
I can't imagine Nintendo selling a console without a Game Pad alongside bundles that include it, that would make things even more confusing than they already are.
However, I do think the next Nintendo handheld will ditch 3D, it just hasn't been the major selling point they hoped it would be, it's the games library that does that.
This sounds really reductive. But at the same time, it's the thought process behind the 2DS, so...I guess there's merit to that.
- New advertising campaign. What they are doing clearly isn't working.
- Cut costs with a new packaged-in gamepad-lite by reducing size and maybe losing the NFC chips and gyros. Sell old one separately.
- Put a team working on Gamepad only retail games, and gamepad online mini-games included with every system.
- Greatly expand Virtual Console offering and lower prices. Cross-play between 3DS and Wii-U.
- Make sure more indies get on board and take a page from Steam sales.
- Accounts!
- Finally, release compelling software and competitive online Pokemon games lol (but seriously)
This is something I put together just now though. Obviously a lot more thought and time has to be put into how you would reinvigorate a product.
Miiverse is an excellent start. They should greatly expand on that type of community/social experience and make it the heart of every app, game, etc on both the Wii U and 3DS.
Add a reward/achievments system to Miiverse. Tie it with other Social Networks. Unite both systems into the same ecosystem and reward people who own both. One is enjoying more success than the other, so why not use it as leverage.
These are all things that I would imagine would boost sales into respectable numbers, not Wii levels of success.
My English isn't extra crap today. 20 hours without sleep and counting. I feel terrible :/
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
I'm not the one saying this thing can be turned around. If the WiiU can't sell on the back of a 3D Mario game, a 2D Mario game, Smash Bros, Mario Kart, among other things (DK, X, Yoshi, etc) the WiiU's poor sales are the least of Nintendo's worries.
The Wiiu is a great, if not very powerful, console.
Nintendo need to carry on bringing out great games for it and hopefully as the install base grows, third parties will have some original ideas for it that they'll decide are financially worth putting on the thing.
I don't think it'll ever be a great console to run with the other next gen machines for multiplats, but that isn't stopping the 3ds from achieving success with qualitiy original titles after a slow start.
Nintendo need to carry on bringing out great games for it and hopefully as the install base grows, third parties will have some original ideas for it that they'll decide are financially worth putting on the thing.
I don't think it'll ever be a great console to run with the other next gen machines for multiplats, but that isn't stopping the 3ds from achieving success with qualitiy original titles after a slow start.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
I'm cool either way. I don't like the Gamepad much, but it's nice to play in bed sometimes. If there were a SKU without the Gamepad for $50-$100 less, I would have bought that one.
I'm the fruit of your imagination.
cookie-monster
Member
without the gamepad it would literally be a six-year-late console. Just no.
pants
Member
Agree 100%
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Man, the GamePad is their whole thing. Without that, they're an underpowered system with little-to-no third party support and the occasional Nintendo game.
I mean, nobody wants the Gamepad in its current form, but they're gonna have to work around that until their next system in 2017 or some shit
I mean, nobody wants the Gamepad in its current form, but they're gonna have to work around that until their next system in 2017 or some shit
Of course not. Without it they are just selling a souped up version of the 360/PS3, with probably poorer 3rd party support going forward, at least in the near future. I would find no appeal in a boring, middle-of-the-road retread console. The WiiU has had a slow start, seemingly by design.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
There's no really gimmick behind 2DS, is just a cheaper 3DS version without 3D. Nintendo can say is "for little kids so they won't destroy their innocent eyes playing 3DS", but the reasoning is to create a entry level 3DS by eliminating the 3D which was the gimminck they introduced with 3DS.
Calamari41
41 > 38
That's why I said "effectively." I love the gamepad too, but Nintendo can't afford to have only the two of us buying their system. How many units has Nintendo sold this calendar year?
I would go nuts over a 30-hour massive-budget word for word, line for line film adaptation of Lord of the Rings. That doesn't change the fact that it would bomb horrifically and the studio would be incredibly stupid to make it.
Edit: I'm not saying necessarily that they need to scrap the gamepad tomorrow. I'm saying that, with hindsight, they never should have had it in the first place. It is a failure as a console-selling feature.
evilromero
Member
Some Nintendo fans aren't critical enough. Back when Mario 64 came out it was great but we weren't blind to the fact that their third party situation was abysmal. Your favorite company isn't infallible. I just want them to make the best games possible because I want to have fun. But their recent output has been really shallow.
Interceptor
Banned
Just call it Wii 2, get rid of the awful name and actually advertise this thing. Done.
There's no coming back. Just like in the movie Captain Philips, as the pirate leader sair - "Captain, I've come really far. There's no turning back." - Nintendo created the perfect storm and they can't create a magic way to clean the sky.
They could, actually, remove some functionality of the controller (camera, microphone, reduce de screen, remove that stupid thing to utilize cards, replace stereo sound for a monosound etc.).
Nintendo is fuc@#$@#$. I'm really sad, but Iwata is the man responsible for all the bad choices and manegemant.
The problem here is that Nintendo has completely lost consumer confidence. The simple fact that it's selling so bad is because people don't want the new mario or the new zelda.
I feel gamers have grown tired of their franchises.
WindWaker did nothing. New Super Mario too. People will go crazy when Mario 3d worlds plumts. I know the new mario 3d will be amazing, but its the same game if you have a 3ds. Nintendo should be releasing Fzero, Starfox, new IPS, Smash.... Mario 2d/3d should be coming only in 2015.
The problem here is that Iwata can't even program a good software release schedule. They releasing the same games to 3ds and Wii U.
I don't see people saying this at all, but do you know what KILLED the Wii U launch? New Super MArio Bros 2 to 3ds. I know a lot of people who didn't jump in the Wii U launch because the 1st party game was another 2d mario.
With Wii, you had Zelda. With Gamecube, you had luigis mansion. With N64, Mario 64 and so on. New game that you couldn't play anywhere with a completely different gameplay.
ahh... Im so salty and sad. There's no magic way to save this boat. Nintendo should release the games they have been making - X, Mario Kart and Smash - and just cancel the Wii U in 2015-2016. Focus on Nintendo 3ds and replace Iwata. Starts everything from the beggining.
If you say they will lost consumer confidence if they cancel the Wii U, think again. Consumers have gone a long time ago. Since Nintendo abandoned the Wii for 2 years.
They could, actually, remove some functionality of the controller (camera, microphone, reduce de screen, remove that stupid thing to utilize cards, replace stereo sound for a monosound etc.).
Nintendo is fuc@#$@#$. I'm really sad, but Iwata is the man responsible for all the bad choices and manegemant.
The problem here is that Nintendo has completely lost consumer confidence. The simple fact that it's selling so bad is because people don't want the new mario or the new zelda.
I feel gamers have grown tired of their franchises.
WindWaker did nothing. New Super Mario too. People will go crazy when Mario 3d worlds plumts. I know the new mario 3d will be amazing, but its the same game if you have a 3ds. Nintendo should be releasing Fzero, Starfox, new IPS, Smash.... Mario 2d/3d should be coming only in 2015.
The problem here is that Iwata can't even program a good software release schedule. They releasing the same games to 3ds and Wii U.
I don't see people saying this at all, but do you know what KILLED the Wii U launch? New Super MArio Bros 2 to 3ds. I know a lot of people who didn't jump in the Wii U launch because the 1st party game was another 2d mario.
With Wii, you had Zelda. With Gamecube, you had luigis mansion. With N64, Mario 64 and so on. New game that you couldn't play anywhere with a completely different gameplay.
ahh... Im so salty and sad. There's no magic way to save this boat. Nintendo should release the games they have been making - X, Mario Kart and Smash - and just cancel the Wii U in 2015-2016. Focus on Nintendo 3ds and replace Iwata. Starts everything from the beggining.
If you say they will lost consumer confidence if they cancel the Wii U, think again. Consumers have gone a long time ago. Since Nintendo abandoned the Wii for 2 years.
Wii 2 - The new Wii HD console - the Nintendo Entertainment Super Wii - with the gamepad, that we previously released for Wii as add-on
Interceptor
Banned
Purrfect. ^^
Calamari41
41 > 38
Nothing "killed" the Wii U launch. It was very successful, and NSBMU was a massive hit. For that two months. It is everything that has happened since that has "killed" the system.
Yes, the Gamepad just does not capture the interest of consumers as the wiimote did with it's motion-control based marketing.
However I think that Nintendo does not need to remove the Gamepad in order to make the Wii U more appealing.
I rememeber the thread in which a $250 black wii u bundle sold out and it seemed to be the right
price to sell the console: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=710426
evilromero
Member
Dude. Really. Head out of the sand. The games just aren't appealing enough.
I said make the Gamepad optional back in like Jan-Feb, my opinion hasn't changed. The Gamepad is a completely ineffectual differentiator, Nintendo IP are the only differentiation the console needs, or hell will even benefit from at this point.
Cut the Gamepad, heavily drop the price, and pray for sales. However, this console is still pretty fucked.
Cut the Gamepad, heavily drop the price, and pray for sales. However, this console is still pretty fucked.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
I'm not disagreeing with you on that one. I'm saying that part of the image they've had along the years, and several problems, have also been their fault.
megabytecr
Member
Nintendo, just keep delivering those great games and hopefully it will get better.
Take some risks, yeah FPS are not your thing but with the money Nintendo has, build 2 collaboration projects, a MP only FPS and an action 3rd person game. That is very little investment in you are Nintendo.
The marketing has to change. They cannot change the name know, but what about a slogan next to the name, don´t know, Wii U, Supercharged Wii or something that tells this is a better and upgraded Wii.
From next year on they will have to build the library by themselves.
Take some risks, yeah FPS are not your thing but with the money Nintendo has, build 2 collaboration projects, a MP only FPS and an action 3rd person game. That is very little investment in you are Nintendo.
The marketing has to change. They cannot change the name know, but what about a slogan next to the name, don´t know, Wii U, Supercharged Wii or something that tells this is a better and upgraded Wii.
From next year on they will have to build the library by themselves.
What in the hell....
No. I think it's a neat device that still hasn't been used to it's fullest capacity. Aside from ZombiU and Nintendoland, Nintendo and third parties have failed to capitalize on the Game Pad. They need to come up with more software that utilize it's capabilities in order to garner some more interest around the Game Pad. They haven't shown anything to indicate that they're working on games that do take advantage of the Game Pad, but I think FE x SMT might just do that.
DragonSworne
Banned
People seem to be confused in this thread, Nintendo IS selling a souped up 360/PS3 with or without the gamepad. Most of the games on the system are current gen ports with little to no functionality offered from the gamepad.
Even Nintendo's own games barely utlize the gamepad in any significant manner that makes people think, "wow I need that!".
Even Nintendo's own games barely utlize the gamepad in any significant manner that makes people think, "wow I need that!".
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
What people still clinging to turnaround hopes have to accept is that WiiU will never be a "must have" but can now only survive to an acceptable lifetime as a "why not", and thats only possible at $100-$200 price range.
The GamePad functionality is just too big of a manufacture cost both on the pad itself, and the streaming internals on the inside of the WiiU to get to 2DS levels of impulse purchase which it appears is the only zone Nintendo can really inhabit these days. If by your own admission you cant compete with cutting edge tech and choose not to, you can't chase anywhere near those price zones either.
The GamePad functionality is just too big of a manufacture cost both on the pad itself, and the streaming internals on the inside of the WiiU to get to 2DS levels of impulse purchase which it appears is the only zone Nintendo can really inhabit these days. If by your own admission you cant compete with cutting edge tech and choose not to, you can't chase anywhere near those price zones either.
I got my WiiU on Tuesday, and since then I've only been playing ZombiU. I love the gamepad integration, it's brilliant. But when it comes to using it as a controller...I find aiming to be a real chore. Am I alone in this? I'm a pretty heavy FPS guy (both console and PC), and consider myself to be decent. But I feel like I'm battling the floaty sticks on this game. I'm not sure if it's the game, or the sticks?
That said, on topic, no. I think the gamepad adds something unique to the system. It's one of those 'once you try it you understand it' kind of things.
That said, on topic, no. I think the gamepad adds something unique to the system. It's one of those 'once you try it you understand it' kind of things.
Calamari41
41 > 38
Ninja Scooter
Member
It's probably going to do Vita 2012 numbers this Nov and Dec. If there is any time for panic and desperation, it's now.
I think it's way too late for that. If we were talking about this 2 years ago, sure. But now they have direct competition with the PS4 and the XBone, they are they new hotness, every game will have "better" visuals than WiiU titles, the monikker of HD no longer has any meaning with making the WiiU a distinquishing feature.
Removing the Gamepad or making it separate, adding in the classic controller and essentially making the thing a mario machine might sell for another ten million, but that's essentially admitting defeat and really doesn't dramatically shift things from the hopeful 20 million total that pachter gave the other day. It's a bandaid, not a cure.
If they make the Gamepad a separate add on, basically all you're doing is adding another peripheral into the market that isn't going to sell. People in this thread have said it themselves, if they were given the option, they wouldn't have gave the gamepad the light of day. Making the gamepad part of the core system so everyone making games for it has to keep it in consideration is the only way to make it meaningful.
Realistically, all Nintendo can do without abandoning the property all together is stick it out for another year, then drop the price to 250. We saw how quickly those things flew off shelves at that price point (hell, that's where I bought one), the cold hard fact is, 250 is the perfect ideal price point for the WiiU, and that sucks for Nintendo...but it's what they're going to have to deal with until they hit their next hardware iteration.
Well...no. The games are fine, Nintendo simply aren't providing interesting reasons for the uninitiated to pay attention to them. The Wonderful 101, problems aside, is the best game on the WiiU right now. But most people who aren't giving nintendo a lot of attention don't know what that game is. That's a problem. Most people I've spoken to don't even realize that Pikman 3 is out. It may not be their most pressing problem, but how Nintendo addresses the media is something they really need to address, because Sony and Microsoft are absolutely killing it right now.
Metallix87
Member
Love it.
evilromero
Member
I think it's their core games that need to be more ambitious. I mean what games do current developers always point to as the most important and influential games? SMB, LOZ, aLttP, Super Metroid, Mario 64, OoT, Galaxy. It's time to drop this "games for everyone" business and just make great games with depth and meaning.
Exactly. I don't think they should kill it off because of this. Instead, make more titles that utilize the game pad. One thing I expect is that indies will create more games that use the game pad in interesting ways than Nintendo.
RAIDEN1
Member
What I meant by tarted up was to say the Wii U was basically an extension of what had come before, but just with slightly improved hardware. Not a full leap in technology as it were..(ie like the N64 to Gamecube..) The Wii U wasn't much of an improvement of what came before...
But all those who are saying that Nintendo should just shut-down the Wii U and start from scratch, that won't happen anytime soon...Satoru Iwata has said that with the upcoming games that are coming out for the system...ie Mario Kart, 3D world, and Smash Bros. There is still a long-way to go..
So in essence things will remain the same...this time next year the Wii U will still be around...where it'll be in sales is anybody's guess..
But all those who are saying that Nintendo should just shut-down the Wii U and start from scratch, that won't happen anytime soon...Satoru Iwata has said that with the upcoming games that are coming out for the system...ie Mario Kart, 3D world, and Smash Bros. There is still a long-way to go..
So in essence things will remain the same...this time next year the Wii U will still be around...where it'll be in sales is anybody's guess..
Duane Cunningham
Member
Man, the Wii U Game Pad is actually the most "traditional" standard controller on a Nintendo system since the SNES. It's a lot more similar to it's generational rivals than the N64 Gamecube or Wii.
LordBaztion
Member
I would definitelly buy a $200 WiiU when the new from Moonlight, the new Zelda and the new Smash are out.
This is gonna be the new discussion ending thing used on anyone who doesn't adhere to the doom & gloom view isn't it?
New Super Mario Bros is the best-selling Wii U game by far.
Windwaker was a fucking HD remake of a Gamecube Zelda game. Why do people expect it to sell boatloads?
If Nintendo has made any mistake with their games lineup, it's not using their first-party brands enough. Remember how the Wonderful 101 sold like shit? Did you buy a copy? People who complain about how Nintendo's first party franchises have gotten old still don't support them when they get something new. That's why Nintendo (And any sensible person) shouldn't listen to those people. They should continue abusing Mario, Donkey Kong, Pikachu, Link, Kirby, etc. because otherwise most of their games just plain don't sell.
megabytecr
Member
You will get used to it trust me.
The Wii U needs the top games so that most hardcore consider the console worth it. I got it at launch and i think it has a very good library but most people dont, yes we have Pikmin 3, W101, Lego City, ZombiU, Zelda WW HD, NSMBU. This games are not enough for most gamers to consider the console, the ones saying I will get it at 100, lol, you really dont want it, so your feddback is useless. The sweet spot is 250 with a game and at least Mario Kart, SM3DW and SSB already released, then the console will have a healthy 100k a month.
evilromero
Member
Off-TV play is a major selling point for me, and one of the reasons I'll be picking one up along with Mario Wii U and ALBW next week.
Clearly, I do not exist. Iwata has one hell of an imagination.
Let's see what happens after the 22nd. If sales aren't considerably better after that, yes, Nintendo needs to go to Defcon 3.
evilromero
Member
Clearly, you are the perfect representation of sales data.
Metallix87
Member
Are you being sarcastic, or can you just not comprehend what "effectively" means?
Relaxed Muscle
Member
That's not done, that's missing the whole point. Nothing in your points demostrates that people will not gladly drop the Wii U pad if given the choice.
If people want a mic, nintendo can have one that cost 1$ packed in on the console, if people wants to browse internet they can do so in any of the millions and millions of mobile devices out there unless they have a 3 year old Android device still rocking on 2.3, if people wants a social network they have plenty to choose from, note that Miiverse would perfectly work on a tablet/smartphone as well or even better, something that just looking at apple numbres way more people have than Wii U.
There's really nothing on the pad that justifies being forced on the console. Off TV play being probably the major one is clearly a thing not a lot of people really would bother or don't care enough.
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