Support NeoGAF

[Kusagari]

I wonder if you could even have a harem anime without a mary sue main character. I find Tenchi to be the least offensive of the bunch. The main character from Campione this season is especially terrible in this regard

Tenchi is perfect and literally becomes God in the series.

Most other harem main characters are weak, sniveling guys who get abused by the girls in their harem. Sure it's wish fulfillment that they're surrounded by hot chicks, but they're still weak and mostly useless in the end.

Tenchi is the exact opposite. He has absolutely no flaws.

 

[Branduil]

 

[WrenchNinja]

You really need to catch up on the last 8 years.

The start of his "rise", if you wanna call it that, was around the end of 2003 I think.

Wow, I bailed out right in the nick of time. Back then it seemed like Triple H and Brock Lesnar were the guys that were unstoppable.

 

[TheChaos]

Does Commander Shepard from the Mass Effect games qualify? It felt like that at times, especially the paragon options.

 

[Dead]

yeah.

 

[Kwixotik]

Let's see how Rothfuss describes himself, and see if Kvothe might fit as wish-fulfillment.

I've studied six martial arts, but I'm not good at any of them. I pick locks and tinker with alchemy. IIf [sic] I had more drive, I'd be a polymath. But since I'm a slacker at heart, I am a dabbler instead.

...Is this guy serious?

 

[Parallax]

Tenchi is perfect and literally becomes God in the series.

Most other harem main characters are weak, sniveling guys who get abused by the girls in their harem. Sure it's wish fulfillment that they're surrounded by hot chicks, but they're still weak and mostly useless in the end.

Tenchi is the exact opposite. He has absolutely no flaws.

Weak, sniveling guys are the reasons I hate harem series. Having awesome overpowered male leads makes the genre so much better. I would rather take joukyuu, kenshi, arata and their rare bretheren over the horribly spineless jellyfish like rito and the fuck awful kenshiro and countless other wack leads in the genre

 

[sonicmj1]

The only problem with that is that she doesn't really do anything besides stand around and cheer people on. And

Spoiler

get brainwashed and captured.

Besides that, a lot of Mary Sue traits apply to Nina.

 

[Kusagari]

Weak, sniveling guys are the reasons I hate harem series. Having awesome overpowered male leads makes the genre so much better. I would rather take joukyuu, kenshi, arata and their rare bretheren over the horribly spineless jellyfish like rito and the fuck awful kenshiro and countless other wack leads in the genre

Arata and Joukyuu are actually awesome guys with cool personalities, though. Tenchi is just boring and, as I said, basically God.

He's actually probably the best example of a Mary Sue in all of anime considering he's blatantly an avatar for the mangaka when you look into it. Tenchi is even named after the guy.

 

[Branduil]

The only problem with that is that she doesn't really do anything besides stand around and cheer people on. And

Spoiler

get brainwashed and captured.

Besides that, a lot of Mary Sue traits apply to Nina.

That's true. She's more a Waifu Sue than a Mary Sue, technically.

 

[malingenie]

Ender's Game Ender. Totally a Gary Stu. He could do no wrong.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Ender's Game Ender. Totally a Gary Stu. He could do no wrong.

Painfully true, as I loved that book when I read it the first time.

He hits all the notes. Child prodigy, misunderstood, selected for a special destiny, saves the day, all of his suffering validated.

 

[malingenie]

Painfully true, as I loved that book when I read it the first time.

He hits all the notes. Child prodigy, misunderstood, selected for a special destiny, saves the day, all of his suffering validated.

I read it for the first time now, in my thirties, and did not get the incredible love it gets. I liked the last 20 or so pages, though.

 

[ascii42]

I read it for the first time now, in my thirties, and did not get the incredible love it gets. I liked the last 20 or so pages, though.

It's been a while since I've read either, but I remember liking Ender's Shadow more than Ender's Game.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Guy really is an insufferable asshole.

I love the fact in the 4th and 5th book that Ron could barely be bothered by Harry's problems because he really was acting like an asshole, and he told him so several times to his face.

And then he cheated his way through Year 6 and that completely backfired at the end of the book. I always liked that Rowling did manage to ground Harry. Aside from being brave and sometimes clever, Harry was really just an average wizard who was carried kicking and screaming towards the prophecy with LOTS of help and dumb luck.

 

[Vagabundo]

Things I like about Ender's Game:

- His disfunctional family
- The VR games Ender played
- The battle room and all the clever tactics that Ender used
- The ending

Ender is fairly bland as a character, it was easy as a kid to insert yourself into the story.

Even when she was a wrong she was right. God I hated her.

 

[jmdajr]

Aww man, why we gotta hate on Milla.

 

[Kimaka]

But his back hurts for half a book! ... and then he gets magically transformed into a handsome super-human, ugh.

An alternative question for this thread: what do you consider a best possible example of an anti-Mary Sue?

I've been re-watching the X-Files and Mulder immediately came to mind. Sure, he is usually right at the end of an episode but most people don't believe him and think he's insane. At work, he's known as that weird guy who hangs out in the basement, squandering away his career. When he's not chasing monsters or trying to out government conspiracies, he's at home on the couch watching old movies and porn or hanging out with The Lone Gunmen, a bunch of paranoid nerds. And even they think Mulder is crazier than they are.

 

[ascii42]

I love the fact in the 4th and 5th book that Ron could barely be bothered by Harry's problems because he really was acting like an asshole, and he told him so several times to his face.

And then he cheated his way through Year 6 and that completely backfired at the end of the book. I always liked that Rowling did manage to ground Harry. Aside from being brave and sometimes clever, Harry was really just an average wizard who was carried kicking and screaming towards the prophecy with LOTS of help and dumb luck.

Well, in the 4th book it was Ron who was the asshole, mostly. But otherwise...yeah.

 

[maharg]

It's been a while since I've read either, but I remember liking Ender's Shadow more than Ender's Game.

Bean is even more of a Mary Sue than Ender. Seriously.

 

[forgeforsaken]

But his back hurts for half a book! ... and then he gets magically transformed into a handsome super-human, ugh.

An alternative question for this thread: what do you consider a best possible example of an anti-Mary Sue?

Kellhus from the Prince of Nothing books in a way. He's perfect at everything but he's a complete scumbag and I get the feeling that it is the author's intent for us to not like him.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Well that's why I originally said that, if a Mary Sue, The Doctor is an extremely well done one. He's definitely Space MacGyver, though, what with basically only his wits as a weapon against an increasingly hostile universe. Which is interesting because, even without any conventional weapon, both The Doctor and his enemies realize that he has the potential to do a great deal of damage to anyone who crosses his path.

The only thing I don't like is when they play into that too much. I don't mind stuff like the Daleks classifying him as their predator, or The Silence being formed to destroy him (although their motivations aren't 100% clear yet but w/e), but sometimes the dialogue goes a bit too far in playing him up as the unstoppable force.

Specifically Season 6.

Even more specifically, A Good Man Goes To War.

 

[The Technomancer]

The only thing I don't like is when they play into that too much. I don't mind stuff like the Daleks classifying him as their predator, or The Silence being formed to destroy him (although their motivations aren't 100% clear yet but w/e), but sometimes the dialogue goes a bit too far in playing him up as the unstoppable force.

Specifically Season 6.

Even more specifically, A Good Man Goes To War.

My least favorite episodes of New Who involve this. See: the literal worship of him by the entire planet in the S3 finale, or the ridiculous "I am the uber-badass protector of earth" at the end of the S5 finale.

 

[Hot Coldman]

My least favorite episodes of New Who involve this. See: the literal worship of him by the entire planet in the S3 finale, or the ridiculous "I am the uber-badass protector of earth" at the end of the S5 finale.

S5? All I remember is him running off into the TARDIS with the newlyweds, talking about Egyptian goddesses on space trains. (Oh god I wish that was an actual episode)

Last of the Time Lords was really really bad with that, agreed.

 

[The Technomancer]

S5? All I remember is him running off into the TARDIS with the newlyweds, talking about Egyptian goddesses on space trains. (Oh god I wish that was an actual episode)

Last of the Time Lords was really really bad with that, agreed.

Whoop, I meant the S5 premier, The Eleventh Hour. "Basically, run" is a terrible like through and through

 

[Hot Coldman]

Oh yeah. Eh, I liked that. That's just the 11th Doctor, he loves to make a point, like the speech to the Alliance in Stonehenge.

 

[Xero]

Whoop, I meant the S5 premier, The Eleventh Hour. "Basically, run" is a terrible like through and through

Loved that in eleventh hour. I love how much more threatening matt smiths can be compared to tennant.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Inconsequential in light of the pain and suffering the great Satan Jason Statham has inflicted upon film goers. >:O

Shush you! Crank 1-2 were so much fun. The sex scene in Crank 2 was one of the funniest things i have ever seen.

 

[Sotha Sil]

Loved that in eleventh hour. I love how much more threatening matt smiths can be compared to tennant.

I think most Moffat's episodes have a "I'm a badass" line.

Spoiler

"Monsters have nightmares about me"; "We're in a library, look me up!"; "Basically, run"; "There's something you never put in a trap: ME!"; "Let somebody else try first"

... (Paraphrasing). Some of those backfire, though. Though s. 3's finale indeed proved Davies loved a messianic Doctor.

 

[The Technomancer]

I think most Moffat's episodes have a "I'm a badass" line.

Spoiler

"Monsters have nightmares about me"; "We're in a library, look me up!"; "Basically, run"; "There's something you never put in a trap: ME!"; "Let somebody else try first"

... (Paraphrasing). Some of those backfire, though. Though s. 3's finale indeed proved Davies loved a messianic Doctor.

Oh god, "something you never put in a trap", I'd blocked that one from my memory.

 

[Sotha Sil]

Oh god, "something you never put in a trap", I'd blocked that one from my memory.

Pretty, prettttty bad. One of the few things I dislike about Moffat's writing.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Ichigo Kurosaki, the John Cena of anime.


That's only because a good amount of the bigger guys aren't the greatest of workers. I would say that Mysterio is more tolerable and put over more talent than Cena.

No. Just no.

 

[The_Hitcher89]

I've been re-watching the X-Files and Mulder immediately came to mind. Sure, he is usually right at the end of an episode but most people don't believe him and think he's insane. At work, he's known as that weird guy who hangs out in the basement, squandering away his career. When he's not chasing monsters or trying to out government conspiracies, he's at home on the couch watching old movies and porn or hanging out with The Lone Gunmen, a bunch of paranoid nerds. And even they think Mulder is crazier than they are.

Completely agree. I love the way he takes his reputation in his stride.

Regarding Harry & Ron in the Goblet of Fire, both of them are as bad as eachother. Ron is jealous and stubborn, while Harry is equally stubborn as well as being a moany little bitch. Hermione's the only one with a modicum of sense in the middle third of that book

 

[John Rabbit]

people listing game characters that you make decisions for aren't really getting the term "mary sue".

 

[CorvoSol]

The only thing I don't like is when they play into that too much. I don't mind stuff like the Daleks classifying him as their predator, or The Silence being formed to destroy him (although their motivations aren't 100% clear yet but w/e), but sometimes the dialogue goes a bit too far in playing him up as the unstoppable force.

Specifically Season 6.

Even more specifically, A Good Man Goes To War.

I thought it was reasonable that a man as OLD as the Doctor could muster an army at his command, and it made some sense that the word "Doctor" would come to mean "Warrior" if the Silence were behind it. The thing about him being "unstoppable" is that it depends on how much you're willing to believe a man who has had free reign of the universe and its history for what, a thousand years, can have at his disposal. I didn't mind it in a Good Man Goes to War because even though the episode shows him as a major badass, it also shows you exactly why he should stick to just the Screwdriver. In the Sound of Drums or whatever the Master illustrates how much damage a Time Lord can do when he throws his weight into it, and there are a LOT of places indebted to the Doctor, so him summoning an army seemed fair.

My least favorite episodes of New Who involve this. See: the literal worship of him by the entire planet in the S3 finale, or the ridiculous "I am the uber-badass protector of earth" at the end of the S5 finale.

See I could also believe this. How many Ancient Alien people have said that this exact thing happened? Someone like the Doctor doing something to cause a religion to spring up around him makes sense since he's a Time Traveler.

It makes sense that over the space of a millenia plus all his time traveling he would have a lot of friends and enemies. What DOES push the limit is that moment when he starts glowing and flying around The Master's little palace because Martha made everyone think about him. It would've been so much better if the gun had actually worked or some other solution had come up.

STILL, The Doctor is a lot better than "Bad Wolf". UGH, UGH and MORE UGH.

 

[Battersea Power Station]

I just remembered on of my guilty reading pleasures: Lee Child's Jack Reacher books.

Holy shit, Jack Reacher is perfect. He's trained in combat and can beat large groups of people by himself. He's a good lover and pays attention to women's needs. He's aware of all plans and schemes around him and outsmarts everyone. He's quiet and humble. He doesn't do anything wrong.

But it's fun to read about him since sometimes you just want to follow a competent character.

Can't believe the Cruise missile is playing him... totally wrong casting.

 

[Black_Stride]

Ichigo Kurosaki, the John Cena of anime.

Jesus, this kid is ridiculous, i cant even......

Whenever he is not in the manga i love it, when he comes back i just hate it....beyond the whole Hollow thing this kid is wiser/stronger/gets more chicks/more loved than characters hundreds of years older than him.

He was frikken 15 not that ive got something against 15 year olds, just that ive got something against 15 year olds.

His 17 year old self wasnt much better.....thank god he has been MIA for the last couple of chapters, the less of him i see the better the Manga is.

Ooh, I got one.
Kinda NSFW, but she's posted all the time in the gaming section, so...

How much photoshop on that ass?

 

[RedSwirl]

On a more serious note, Tenchi and anime characters like him:

are awful Mary Sue characters and I find them to be insulting and unwatchable.

Fuck you man. At the very least they are entertaining.

 

[RedSwirl]

If you play right, the Persona 3/4 MC is a Mary Sue. Perfect at academics, sports, cooking, women. You name it. And everyone loves him. I wish I could be rewarded for playing those games as a lazy misanthrope.

Does Commander Shepard from the Mass Effect games qualify? It felt like that at times, especially the paragon options.

Well a customizable RPG player character kind of becomes this by definition. At the very least it ends up becoming extremely easy for the player to end up playing this kind of character. I would say especially so in Mass Effect because there are certain things Shepard will almost always say/do regardless of player choice to show off how awesome he/she is.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

I wonder if you could even have a harem anime without a mary sue main character. I find Tenchi to be the least offensive of the bunch. The main character from Campione this season is especially terrible in this regard

I think this guy qualifies:

 

[Neffarias_Bredd]

I haven't read through the entire thread, but I think Goku could be a Mary Sue.

And the Malazan Series is a great series for interesting, powerful characters who are not Mary Sues