Interfectum
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[The Wrap] Avatar 2 Is Not Making Its Winter 2017 Release
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
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Fighting the good fight, online and off. lol
Freddy=Legend
Member
This sucks. Looking forward to Avatar 2 so much.
Guess the ppl at Diseny probably knew this. They wouldn't move Star Wars so close to it & lose IMAX screens, plus they're opening an Avatar theme park; they'd be hurting themselves.
Guess the ppl at Diseny probably knew this. They wouldn't move Star Wars so close to it & lose IMAX screens, plus they're opening an Avatar theme park; they'd be hurting themselves.
Marauder Shields
Member
Looking forward to this movie, will be interested to see what they can do with the universe they created.
Alex_Mexico
Member
Some of you forget Disney ir working closely with James Cameron on the Pandora world expansion for DIsney's Animal Kingdom theme park in Orlando. You can bet your ass Disney knew this Avatar 2 delay was coming before announcing that Star Wars VIII was coming in December 2017.
I assume they are not too happy with it being pushed back.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I do wonder, (I brought it up in another thread a few days ago) if, considering the comparisons that keep popping up with George R.R. Martin, there isn't something to the idea he's either tripping on how to tell this story the way he needs to in order to not eat shit, or if the fact he knows he's pretty much all set, and he doesn't have that urgency that drove him on both Titanic and Avatar is what's causing him to be... lackadaisical isn't the right word at all, but maybe unworried? unhurried?
Basically, I'm wondering if the fact that financially it doesn't matter if he ever puts this shit out, and creatively he has to absolutely nail it or he's guaranteed a hurricane of shit is causing him to just keep pushing it back.
Or it could just be the technological advancements needed to realize said story just aren't there yet?
I do think it's interesting that with most other artists, delays on announced projects that stretch this far start to cause fans to maybe reconsider their conception of the artist in question, but with Cameron, nobody's willing to budge on the image of him being 100% confident genius-level planner with all the answers. It's entirely possible he's lost in the sauce right now.
You could say the same with Avatar. Unless it's up to his standards he's going to keep working to get it right. This is typical of him and not out of the ordinary, and he's working on three movies. I'm not surprised at all it's taking him a long time. Just on a technical level it has to be crazy as hell. Esp with his lofty goals in mind. When was the last time he wasn't over budget and on time?
I like this.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Nah, this seems different than Avatar, especially considering the financial details you just posted. With Avatar, that urgency seemed tangible. He was not only going full-speed trying to get the tech where he wanted it, he was also not working with a safety net (just like he wasn't with Titanic). It took him a long time, but the scope of the thing, the ambition of it, and the work needed to get the equipment in a place where he could actually translate said imagery into visual reality, that all made sense, even at the time.
This doesn't really feel like that. He's apparently got no real financial risk - if I'm reading what you posted, he's got a billion from Fox whether he actually makes these motherfuckers or not. He may or may not be pushing new technologies with these movies (we don't actually know, or at least haven't heard of anything beyond framerate stuff, which Ang Lee is about to beat him to), and he's five years past his first target, which was already four years past the release of his last movie.
I'm just pointing out that the repeated arguments (that have weakened over time) in defense of George R.R. Martin's constant delays might also be applied to Cameron.
It doesn't feel different at all from Avatar. We first heard of Avatar in 1996. He was working in that damn wharehouse forever. It's post was two years. He doesn't give a crap about money nor was it ever a urgency for him to create art. Don't forget a lot of the tech he created for the first carries over to the sequels.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
This is obviously where we disagree. I think it does. Quite a bit, in fact.
The italicized especially seems bullshit. You gonna argue Cameron didn't give a shit about creating art with, of all the films, Avatar?
I think they rush of making movies is worth more then money for him. He proved that with Titanic. Gave up his salary and tried to give back his backend points because he was over budget and behind schedule. Fox said no to the points because they thought it was meaningless anyway, because it wasn't going to profit.
I mean what does he do with the money he has now. Buys subs to reach the bottom of the damn sea and uses it to create tech for his movies. I think money just allows him to explore shit he likes to explore.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
The reason Cameron's taken so long with the scripts is because he's been trying to whittle down a 1700 page document he wrote for the sequels into 3 films.
That's why you had that interview with James Horner last year where he confirmed Cameron was trying to get 4 films worth of material down to 3. When you keep in mind the fact that Cameron keeps reiterating that each film will still function as a largely standalone film, THAT is a daunting task.
The real question is why people are so surprised at the delays. Every Cameron film usually goes through at least two delays. Now he's planning three films at once.
That's why you had that interview with James Horner last year where he confirmed Cameron was trying to get 4 films worth of material down to 3. When you keep in mind the fact that Cameron keeps reiterating that each film will still function as a largely standalone film, THAT is a daunting task.
The real question is why people are so surprised at the delays. Every Cameron film usually goes through at least two delays. Now he's planning three films at once.
Yes, this! When Cameron said that Dec 2017 was a placeholder, I knew it wouldn't be released on time.
ZehDon
Banned
It's worth remembering this kind of narrative has been run on three of Cameron's previous five films, and that each and every time, Cameron has delivered a knock-out that conquers the box office and alters the landscape of film. Remember, this is the guy who sat on Avatar for nearly two decades so technology could catch his ideas. He doesn't churn out films, and its not because he doesn't care. Avatar 2 is delayed without concern because everyone involved knows, if you just let Cameron sit in a corner for a decade or so, you get something worth the wait.
As for the wait itself, this isn't so much a wait for Avatar 2, as it is a wait for three more James Cameron films. The amount of pre-production for just one is crazy. God only knows what Cameron's got cooked up for three. Hollywood is in the business of slating up its films years out now. With studio's like Marvel laying deadlines literally six years in advance, people might think a delay for a big film is something to be concerned about. Those people never waited for Avatar. As for me:
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Yeah for as much as delays suck, going through the wait for Avatat itself was brutal. That was supposed to hit in 2007 originally.
At the end of the day though, we're going to be getting three James Cameron films over three years and that's kind of amazing.
At the end of the day though, we're going to be getting three James Cameron films over three years and that's kind of amazing.
So other than post, all principal photography will be done by the time 2 releases right?
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Yes. Principal being the key word.
Fug Slanderson
Member
At this point, my main concern is that Cameron will die before these get finished. He's not that old, but he's a really intense guy and handled some of the most stressful shoots of all time which surely took at least a few years off his life.
Livingskeletons
If I pulled that off, would you die?
Wonder what the first trailer will be like.
I remember Avatar having an interesting teaser.
I remember Avatar having an interesting teaser.
The One and Done
Member
Jake Sooly needs more time for wind sprints.
ZehDon
Banned
In an age where Hollywood is fuelled by nostalgia culture, and are currently making movies based on 40 year old entertainment properties, do you honestly think people stop caring once an arbitrary statute of limitations has expired?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I'm not sure it's actually a "culture," nor that it's ever not been present.
Chezzymann
Member
I'm honestly expecting a 10 year gap between 1 and 2 at this point
ZehDon
Banned
I might be reaching with calling it a culture, agreed, but no one can deny there's a substantial trend in revisiting decades-old IP, specifically from the late 70s and 80s, in TV, Film and Print, and cashing in on audiences' fond memories for those properties. And there's at least one author who's made a career out of it. Hollywood moves in trends, but its clear we're in a peak of this type of business. In any case, this business model works, because audiences generally don't stop caring about something they like because its been a while.
Glass Shark
Banned
this movie will never come out
crazy monkey
Banned
10, one billion movie will get released minimum before avatar 2 lol.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Again, this isn't a new thing, and while it might be happening more now, you're right, I don't think it's substantially more than before.
I think the bigger difference isn't nostalgia itself, but the power of branding. Which is tied in pretty tightly to the fact my generation (and the generations that followed) are the first real demographic groups to have both branding and nostalgia so tightly intertwined. Our parents were nostalgic for songs, sounds, the feel and look of an era they grew up in. We're nostalgic for the shit we got our parents to buy us. It's not so much the movies/tv shows/comics we read, it's the merchandising that went along with it.
The film industry has always looked to the past for inspiration in the now, and mined that nostalgic vein to varying degrees. But the film industry today isn't predicated on the star system: It's built on branding. Movie stars don't get big movies made - logos get greenlit. Hell, we have events wherein executives throw multimedia parties simply to unveil the logos that are coming years in advance.
The fact we refer to stories and movies and characters as IP first and foremost, that we use the language of the executive to discuss our favorite entertainment speaks to how we're very complicit in the emphasis on revisiting brands as a means to make money.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
So Disney can take even more time finishing Pandora for Animal Kingdom in Disney World.
What a fucking waste of space.
What a fucking waste of space.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
It will come in a time to save us when we are plagued again by dreadful camera in action scenes.
ZehDon
Banned
This is an interesting point, and one that I frankly hadn't really considered. I think you're on to something, however I don't necessarily think in the way in which you might mean.
For example, a lot of the 70s and 80s movies really didn't have strong branding, or even big marketing pushes. These movies weren't drilled into us as children the way Pixar films are drilled into kids today. Sure Disney movies were, but internet denizens aren't clamouring for 'Sleeping Beauty 3'. In fact, a lot of what we're seeing dragged into the 21st century to fuel this "nostalgia culture" (I really need a better term for this) are merely the cult classics. The Last Starfighter, for example, was not a well marketed or monetised film. It was just a fun sci-fi flick that struck a cord with youngsters, and we've had little to nothing like it since. But its "nostalgia value" is such that someone was able to use its premise wholesale to tap into the "nostalgia culture".
Looking at video games, sites like GoG.com live and breath by selling us back our childhoods one game at a time. Games that, in most cases, had bugger all push behind it besides a box on a shelf. Branding has little to do with the fact that people want them today. I think there is more to it than merely "capitalism", to be a tad reductionist. The entertainment that resonated with youngsters of yester-year is able to be re-experienced so readily today. I think this new-found availability, coupled with Hollywood's risk adverse nature, fuels this demand for "nostalgia". Hollywood has always banked on sure-fire hits, but nothing like what we're seeing today. They're straight-up allergic to risk. Now, we get excited about the prospect of The Last Starfighter 2, not because we asked our parents to buy action figures, but because to our eight year old selves, its the best movie ever, and we want to re-capture that level of excitement. And Hollywood has banked on providing that experience.
To bring this back on topic, this is part of why, I suspect, people are also looking forward to Avatar 2, even if its been 10 years by the time its actually out. Avatar was one of the most incredible cinema-going experiences I've ever had. I walked out of the theatre in a daze. I know a lot of people did. The opportunity to have something close to that again is worth waiting for, in my opinion. Of course, I'm really just saying "I want to experience Avatar for the first time again". Which is a demand that wasn't readily available until the last decade or so.
The Second Coming of Cameron saving us from 'shaky cam' will be Avatar 2?
Apropos.
He's right.
Looks like production has finally begun!
http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Part-Avatar-2-James-Cameron-Currently-Working-121747.html
JC speaks:
http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Part-Avatar-2-James-Cameron-Currently-Working-121747.html
JC speaks:
ThatStupidLion
Member
Wonder if this is a post/cg thing.... Been waiting for the industry to collapse on itself
GentlemanCrow
Member
Apt that he's comparing the project to another giant bomb.
now that deadpool and bvs have happened, Avatar 2 is at the top of my "How the fuck is this going to do at the box office?" list.
I'm super curious. It just feels like the entire world has forgotten about the first movie and no one really gives a fuck about a sequel.
But I'm sure once the marketing machine gets into full swing things will be different. I also shouldn't doubt Cameron
I'm super curious. It just feels like the entire world has forgotten about the first movie and no one really gives a fuck about a sequel.
But I'm sure once the marketing machine gets into full swing things will be different. I also shouldn't doubt Cameron
now that deadpool and bvs have happened, Avatar 2 is at the top of my "How the fuck is this going to do at the box office?" list.
I'm super curious. It just feels like the entire world has forgotten about the first movie and no one really gives a fuck about a sequel.
But I'm sure once the marketing machine gets into full swing things will be different. I also shouldn't doubt Cameron
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