This wasnt true in other thief games, why would it be now?
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This wasnt true in other thief games, why would it be now?
Hopefully this one turns out good as the new Deus Ex. I totally expected these games to be horrible but Deus Ex has been one of the best games this gen just right behind Fallout New Vegas.
I think you were just bad when it came to combat. I don't really understand how since the combat mechanism in Thief games was more then simple. I guess in Thief 2 you could get fucked by the robots but other then that it was rather easy to slay all your enemies.
I think you were just bad when it came to combat. I don't really understand how since the combat mechanism in Thief games was more then simple. I guess in Thief 2 you could get fucked by the robots but other then that it was rather easy to slay all your enemies.
zerokoolpsx
Member
That's what I wanted to hear! Garrett is a lover, not a fighter.
It was true of my experiences playing them. Direct combat was a risky proposition and the game actively discouraged you from getting into swordfights with guards.
I guess if anyone is distraught at the fact that there is no one in your way to kill, I guess you can always wait for Blacklist, the only stealth game with a mass murder button (or multiple) but still no blink superpower.
Seriously though, the fact that you can do a full non-lethal playthrough means they know they have to create a world that runs fine on its own without you and then challenge you to navigate through it without causing too much of a disturbance to it. That's the beauty of stealth games when done right.
Seriously though, the fact that you can do a full non-lethal playthrough means they know they have to create a world that runs fine on its own without you and then challenge you to navigate through it without causing too much of a disturbance to it. That's the beauty of stealth games when done right.
That screenshot isn't from Thief 4. It's from a mod:http://paulmader.blogspot.com/2009/04/first-screenshots.html
I dont have much hope that the game will live up to the previous Thief titles, but i'm sure it will be good.
I dont have much hope that the game will live up to the previous Thief titles, but i'm sure it will be good.
I will gladly eat crow/hat/my words because I sincerely want this game to be good; my shield of negativity is there to lessen the sting if it isn't. Hope for the best, expect the worst, and all that.
I NEED SCISSORS
Banned
Excellent. If this gets the same treatment as Deus Ex, i'm incredibly excited.
abstract alien
Member
Great!
That tree looks like it's trying to camouflage into the concrete with that coloring though.
That tree looks like it's trying to camouflage into the concrete with that coloring though.
MrPing1000
Member
Read this fellas lol.
I NEED SCISSORS
Banned
Square Enix / Eidos have been all over the place when it comes to reboots.
Deus Ex was awesome, Hitman kinda sucked, and Tomb Raider is just average.
D
Deleted member 102362
Unconfirmed Member
Thanks. I'll remove it from the OP.
Tesseract
Banned
just joshing, i too want the game to be good. here's hoping.
MaddenNFL64
Member
I loved Thief 3. I know OG fans hated the tiny maps, but I thought it all worked fairly well in that game. Shiny loots!
Moff
Member
this sounds like this is an extra challenge. like in deus ex.
thief is not supposed to work like that. in thief, acting stealthy and knocking out enemies must be the easy way. if this game gets any easier when you just stab (or heaven forbid: shoot) everyone, it fails.
deadly shadows was an amazing game, despite the splitted levels, and I pity any thief "fan" who feels otherwise
thief is not supposed to work like that. in thief, acting stealthy and knocking out enemies must be the easy way. if this game gets any easier when you just stab (or heaven forbid: shoot) everyone, it fails.
deadly shadows was an amazing game, despite the splitted levels, and I pity any thief "fan" who feels otherwise
Dwight Schrute
Member
YESSSS
People seem to hate this game just as much as Human Revolution when it was first announced.. that game turned out alright, don't see why this one wouldn't, even if they "streamline" some things. It's the same studio that created Deus Ex, maybe not the same team, but that should tell you one or two things about their mindset when they go about re-creating a classic PC title for a modern console audience.
Stealth should not be the easy way, killing is the easy way around the problems, but with a lot of consequenes. If you kill a person in the older Thief games, you always would leave a little mess. The victim would scream loudly, his body would leave blood marks and of course the body itself. Taking out an enemie stealthy is harder, but you only have the disposal of the body to worry about.
The main problem with the sentence of the devolper are the words "can" and "killing-machine". Like the OP said, the difficult setting does not allow you to kill anbody (besides animals, beasts, undead and machines) and a common sentece was "you're a thief not a murderer". The word "killing-machines" sounds like he will kill, but not a lot of people. I always seen the story of Garret following the hard difficulty and so he never killed anybody in any game (yes he killed someone in the intro, but this was stupid). Of course there are just words, but there could be an mindset behind them.
Then pity me. Deadly Shadows was an ok game. The 3rd-Person prespektiv takes away a lot of the stealth-gameplay and atmosphere. You can play it in 1st-person, but you can feel that the designers never attempt it this way. The narrow level-design take away a lot of freedom and hurt the overall reality of the game-world. Not to forget the "Overworld", which always feeled like padding.
SeriousApes
Member
I hope it turns out good. I never played the older Thief games, but I bought them on Steam during a sale a while back. I finally got around to installing them, and after messing around with some tweaks and graphics mods, I started playing Deadly Shadows today and I'm really loving it so far. I'll probably put that one on hiatus and play from the beginning of the series after tweaking those two.
TheVampire
Banned
Gotta let out that pain somehow.
See the thing is, I'm actually getting really sick of being satisfied with the 'alright' we've become used to. So many spiritual successors or true sequels where everyone concedes that the game won't hold a candle to their predecessors but will be fine in their own right. I'm tired of being content with that.
Thief 1 & 2 are nearly flawless when it comes to their core gameplay and level design. True, rich experiences. Taking away or neutering any one of the original gameplay facets to 'streamline' it will have detrimental effects when directly compared to the originals. Yes, they probably won't have a detrimental affect on the game itself. Like we all say - it'll still probably be 'fine' or 'good' - but it won't be what makes Thief as good as it is. And that annoys me. That 15 years after the original was released, we're hoping for minimal damage to the series, rather than wondering what incredible new features are available to us as a result of new technologies.
It's all rather backwards.
For example, this 'focus' feature is just a single 'streamline' to the game that, in the end, won't make the game terrible or outright unplayable, but it's a big blow against what we were used to in the originals. Just by showing where the player should go takes away so much immersion, fear, intelligence, atmosphere and fun from the game. No longer are you casing a complex and mysterious mansion where it's up to you to get your bearings, figure out the layout of the place, read notes and overhear guards to get an understanding as to where the 'prize' might be kept etc. It becomes, head down, go straight towards that quest marker.
And in the end, no amount of spectacular engine or art design can save the game with implementations like this. It simply won't be as an immersive experience as the original games, dated engine, warts and all.
Discotheque
Banned
yeah, I'm really gonna miss overhearing guards for clues and such. fuuuuck.
it's a mechanic that sounds so simple and yet no games are willing to implement it.
it's a mechanic that sounds so simple and yet no games are willing to implement it.
Moff
Member
exactly, and this made the stealth way the easier way.
quite the contrary, deadly shadows was perfectly playable in first person. the third person view is the one that seemed like a last-minute addition. certainly not the other way round.
the overworld was a welcome addition to the game that hurt nothing that made the other games great.
and while I agree that the level design was more narrow (and splitted in mini levels) we got more mansion /castle levels and less fantay monster dungeon levels, which was a blessing. Or does anyone disagree that the mansion/castle levels in thief 1&2 were the best? thief 1 &2 had way too many fantasy elements. deadly shadows is the only one, that found a good ratio there, yet.
apart from that, deadly shadows improved the game in many ways, especially the dynamic lightning was a huge improvement for the gameplay in this shadow-based stealth gameplay, not to mention the atmosphere. shalebridge cradle is- to this day - the best level the thief series has seen.
so yes, I pity you for not being able to appreciate that for what it is.
MaddenNFL64
Member
The lighting in Deadly shadows was nice. The game had a spooky atmosphere.
Messofanego
Banned
Black Republican
Member
das gut
Messofanego
Banned
I'm not sure why people are cynical over this news. This is the more worrying info:
"In the beginning, we were getting really tactical. When at a point, we went a little bit too far on that tactical aspect of the game. It was slowing the game a little too much."
Yo, this game would be too tactical compared to the older games. People don't want that.
Isn't slowing the game the point of a stealth game? Stealth games are slow as molasses. Levels in stealth games that in a typical action game would take 10 minutes to complete, would take an hour here because of the patience of waiting in shadows, planning your next moves, and severe consequences for failure.
"In the beginning, we were getting really tactical. When at a point, we went a little bit too far on that tactical aspect of the game. It was slowing the game a little too much."
Yo, this game would be too tactical compared to the older games. People don't want that.
Isn't slowing the game the point of a stealth game? Stealth games are slow as molasses. Levels in stealth games that in a typical action game would take 10 minutes to complete, would take an hour here because of the patience of waiting in shadows, planning your next moves, and severe consequences for failure.
Good - hopefully this will be the actual focus of the game as well (I've not kept up with what has been said of this so far).
Not the original Thief games? They're all on GOG. Enjoy.
This, esp. the bolded, just about covers my fears of modern reboots of these games. I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
Messofanego
Banned
edgefusion
Member
Does this mean you can tranq/knock-out everyone instead? Because I always felt the difference between tranquilising a guy and murdering him was not really distinct enough. You're still shooting or melee'ing dudes.
Moff
Member
well, the 3 thief games of course, all of them are very recommendable.
I love stealth games, I dont consider the hitman games to be stealth though (although I love them, too). I didnt like the splinter cell games at all, but tenchu had good stealth mechanics, I'd recommend wrath of heaven there. and a very underestimated stealth game was manhunt.
If it needs to be a recent game I'd say dishonored, it can be played with stealth, but your powers in this game are so strong that it gets very easy. still a good game though.
Discotheque
Banned
Thief trilogy, Hitman Blood Money, Mark of the Ninja.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
GOTY 2014 contender.
No, really - isn't it bizarre that the very first true stealth First Person game - Thief, is also by far the best stealth game ever (with the exception of its sequel)? Yes, the original games were masterpieces of their time but isn't it strange that really no one has built on top of what's previously come? Stamped out the (admittedly few) flaws? It's all just always been 'To what degree can we replicate Thief's stealth without alienating the mainstream crowd?'