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[NullPointer]

*standing ovation*

Now I'm really interested.

 

[Derrick01]

Derrick, just wondering, are you too lazy to change your avatar to something you really like?

Or you like giving this persona that you're not a fanboy of anything?

I like HR for what it is and that's a modern attempt at the Deus Ex formula. It's probably the least insulting reboot, sequel or prequel from a previous gen franchise that came out this generation.

But one thing Deus Ex never was is a stealth game. That's why it kind of bugs me when people lump HR (and Dishonored to a different degree) into the stealth category since it's so mechanically broken when viewed under that category. There's really not a huge degree of depth between it and something like Uncharted, which you can also clear sections stealthily and crouch-sneak behind cover if you're careful enough.

It should be viewed solely under the Deus Ex category which is a FPS/RPG hybrid with a huge exploration focus and complicated level design that holds many well placed secrets. "Stealth" is merely one of the many things the game tries and like most jack of all trades games it doesn't go any deeper than ankle deep in most of the mechanics it tries. So lets do everyone a favor and stop calling it a stealth game. It does a huge disservice to games that were created solely with stealth in mind from the start.

 

[Galactic Fork]

I'd actually be willing to sacrifice an amount of verisimilitude in order to make knockdowns a quite dangerous proposition. Systematically knocking down enemies, thus eliminating any and all threat from levels is not stealth, besides being quite lame. I do find the mentality to treat knocking down enemies as a part of stealth gameplay very unfortunate.

Yeah, I'd love if a game had guards notice others not checking in, or even simply noticing the guy that was guarding the same room is suddenly gone. Maybe a time limit for assorted knock out methods, so when they wake up, they alert the others and all the guards are sent into a more permanent alerted search status.

 

[Data West]

This had to be explicitly announced as a feature? It wasn't assumed? Game's doomed already.

That's not fair. I'm sure someone asked them about it, and they had to address it because, AS PROVEN BY THE PREVIOUS THREAD, people are all ready to hate it from the get-go.

God damn, this place is getting too negative lately.

 

[Odrion]

It could just mean you have a sleeper gun and sword, and a bomb that puts people to sleep. A first person sleeper.

 

[NullPointer]

This had to be explicitly announced as a feature? It wasn't assumed? Game's doomed already.

Have a look at what passes for tomb raiding in the new Tomb Raider and yeah, you'll see why this kind of announcement is actually appreciated.

 

[Orayn]

No, really - isn't it bizarre that the very first true stealth First Person game - Thief, is also by far the best stealth game ever (with the exception of its sequel)? Yes, the original games were masterpieces of their time but isn't it strange that really no one has built on top of what's previously come? Stamped out the (admittedly few) flaws? It's all just always been 'To what degree can we replicate Thief's stealth without alienating the mainstream crowd?'

It's because the art of making video games has deprecated and we're living in the Goddamn dark ages. The continuity of knowledge is lost, and the best we can hope to accomplish is LESS of a backslide from the mechanics that were figured out years before. Progress is out of the question.

That's not fair. I'm sure someone asked them about it, and they had to address it because, AS PROVEN BY THE PREVIOUS THREAD, people are all ready to hate it from the get-go.

God damn, this place is getting too negative lately.

I have not yet begun to be negative!

 

[Dyni Crippler]

No, really - isn't it bizarre that the very first true stealth First Person game - Thief, is also by far the best stealth game ever (with the exception of its sequel)? Yes, the original games were masterpieces of their time but isn't it strange that really no one has built on top of what's previously come? Stamped out the (admittedly few) flaws? It's all just always been 'To what degree can we replicate Thief's stealth without alienating the mainstream crowd?'

It's kind of weird. No one ever wanted to approach Thief's level design in terms of complexity, with the exception of Deus Ex (which was, however, more of a 'play how you want' than a pure stealth game, similiar to Dishonored). Other stealth games either went for refining mechanics (Splinter Cell) or introducing something new (Hitman), yet in my opinion nothing ever reached Thief's level. I think level design is the key here, but nobody really tried doing something about it. Weird.

 

[todahawk]

Can it be completed by killing everyone, though?

 

[Akuun]

Interested to see how Eidos Montreal handles this one. They did amazingly well on DX:HR - far better than I thought possible for a revival of an old series.

 

[Lancehead]

As far as I'm aware this is a completely different team to DE:HR. The leads etc., anyway.

 

[TheSeks]

Suddenly, I'm more interested in Thief 4 than I am Splinter Genocide.

(Hint: I wasn't interested in either, but the fact you can "ghost" the entire game suddenly puts it on my radar.)

 

[gabbo]

Interested to see how Eidos Montreal handles this one. They did amazingly well on DX:HR - far better than I thought possible for a revival of an old series.

Hopefully they worked out the kinks of the stealth from DE:HR to make it the forefront of the game.

 

[KingKong]

In Thief it isn't, killing, even in one blow, is way noiser and problematic, even if you get rid of the body, you also have to get rid of the blood, otherwise other guard might see it and alert everyone. Getting rid of the blood makes you use a water arrow, which are scarce and expensive. You really have to plan things out. Very rarely is killing worth it.

sure, but there's lots of places where there are just a few guards patrolling a certain area, so leaving the body and the blood isn't a big deal

I guess I don't see why it's a big deal to be able to "ghost" a game by knocking enemies out for the duration of the level vs killing them, it's effectively the same thing (compared to completely avoiding every enemy, which is much more difficult and requires a bigger change in your playstyle)

 

[Gozer the Gozerian]

Just in case anyone was worried otherwise.

What I want to know now is what the difficulty levels will be. The original games' highest difficulty settings forbade killing any humans anyway.

Here is the original Eidos Montreal blog link.

I think the more interesting thing is that they reference what they were talking about with the whole "less goth then before" thing in the GameInformer video. They were speaking in regards to an older concept art they had that was super goth looking. Nice of GI to completely butcher the context of those quotes.

 

[Derrick01]

As far as I'm aware this is a completely different team to DE:HR. The leads etc., anyway.

It is for the most part. They were working on this before Human Revolution even came out.

The HR team is working on something else. Presumably the next Deus Ex.

So could Dishonoured and while I really like the game, it was stealth lite at best. I'd hope this is like the earlier Thief titles, but I can't help but feel we'll be getting another Dishonoured with its focus on social stealth too.

Not a bad thing by any means, but certainly not good news for those of us who are fans of the earlier Thief titles.

Yeah one of the other things that bothers me with people and stealth is that apparently all you need to make a stealth game is make ghosting possible. Which when you think about it can be done with ANY action game. Just make the AI pathing work in a way that the character can sneak by everyone and make the AI not become alert when a single hair follicle is poking out of cover.

There's a lot more to the best stealth games than just being able to ghost through them.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

So could Dishonoured and while I really like the game, it was stealth lite at best. I'd hope this is like the earlier Thief titles, but I can't help but feel we'll be getting another Dishonoured with its focus on social stealth too.

Not a bad thing by any means, but certainly not good news for those of us who are fans of the earlier Thief titles.

 

[LastNac]

Derrick be pleased!

 

[Shake Appeal]

Mark of the Ninja is a pretty good puzzle game, but I was disappointed in it as a stealth game.

 

[jerry113]

Well yeah.I mean, it's a game about a thief. Someone who sneaks in and steals things. Not someone who kills for a profession.

 

[Myriadis]

I love that. It's always more thrilling to try and get through an area undetected than just guns blazing.

 

[Messofanego]

Mark of the Ninja is a pretty good puzzle game, but I was disappointed in it as a stealth game.

Is it because of the respawns?

 

[FACE]

I'm not sure why people are cynical over this news. This is the more worrying info:

"In the beginning, we were getting really tactical. When at a point, we went a little bit too far on that tactical aspect of the game. It was slowing the game a little too much."


Yo, this game would be too tactical compared to the older games. People don't want that.

Isn't slowing the game the point of a stealth game? Stealth games are slow as molasses. Levels in stealth games that in a typical action game would take 10 minutes to complete, would take an hour here because of the patience of waiting in shadows, planning your next moves, and severe consequences for failure.

Yikes!