- Great music
- Engaging battle system
- Beautiful visuals
- Very Intriguing (but not good) story
- I liked Sazh, Hope grew on me, Fang was hot
...but only thing listed here that wasn't soured in retrospect was the music. The combat was artificially difficult, the visuals were godlike but the overly abstract art direction on everything was off-putting, the story was ass.
XIII-2
- The overall game was waaaaaaaaay more fun to play through.
- Combat no longer felt so artificial since you can switch characters. Made battles alot more fun, especially the DLC ones
- Music direction was jarring but still really great, loved the OST
- Still a very pretty game
If XIII was designed from the start the way XIII-2 was, i probably would have thoroughly enjoyed it. The biggest drawback by the time XIII-2 got here was that it was clearly not even half the effort of XIII, and the story had already suicided itself.
At least in X you felt like you were actually moving your character and party through the game. In XIII you watch drawn out cutscenes and then get dropped into a one-way maze and battle enemies in that maze until you get to the next set of cutscenes and get dropped somewhere else. Even though you couldn't freely travel the ENTIRE world of FFX for a majority of the game, you could still backtrack to different areas, and most of the time actually did all of the movement between areas yourself, instead of being teleported after cutscenes (and also having your party drastically change). By the end of the game you could walk between just about every area in the game (I've no idea if XIII allows this, I haven't got there yet), or fly there. It still felt like a complete game world and not just a bunch of interconnected linear "levels."
Combats are godlike, best "Turn" based combats of the franchise (If you only played as Lightning spamming Ruin and autoAttack then you won't understand). I loved the "job" based system that forced you to think and react fast based on what the enemy was doing. Buffing and Debuffing jobs were MANDATORY to beat the bosses and almost everything when you reached Grand Pulse.
The Story. It was good but had a very bad way of storytelling. Suddently everybody starts a "namedropping competiton" about L'cie, Fal'cie, Cieth, Pulse, Cocoon etc and you expend the whole first playthrought thinking "what.the.fuck.is.happening". I recognise I had to play it twice (hated the 1st for the reasons everybody hated it, LOVED the 2nd time because I played with EVERY character except Lightning, I tanked, I buffed, I debuffed, I healed, I used magic MYSELF not using the automatic system).
Loved the Summons (will never forget that they dropped Ifrit for that Brunhilda thing tho). "B-but they are transformers". So what? In a world about Mankind vs Machines where Gods are Machines what did you expect?
Things they did wrong?
-Story explained so wrong
-Can't change party leader during battles (solved in XIII-2)
-They don't let you change your party and party leader until almost reaching Plusle.
-Vanille english Voice is HORRIBLE and almost forces you to hate her when you should be thinking "poor girl, she's smiling while she's holding her tears".
-Hope.
-Soooooooo lineal. FFX was also a corridor but for god's sake at least give us some alternative ways.
"But you said nothing about No cities and No npc's to talk".
Of course not. It's a game where the main cast of characters in the first hour get a mark that makes EVERY-LIVING-THING-OF-COCOON hate or fear them. People usually forgets that the whole corridor till you reach Grand Plusle you are being chased by the whole damn army. You are "Plusle L'cie", you are supposed to destroy Cocoon and kill every body (or that's what people thinks) so there's no way an NPC would sell us stuff. My gosh the party goes to ONE city and it becomes a literal warzone in 1 night.
At least in X you felt like you were actually moving your character and party through the game. In XIII you watch drawn out cutscenes and then get dropped into a one-way maze and battle enemies in that maze until you get to the next set of cutscenes and get dropped somewhere else. Even though you couldn't freely travel the ENTIRE world of FFX for a majority of the game, you could still backtrack to different areas, and most of the time actually did all of the movement between areas yourself, instead of being teleported after cutscenes (and also having your party drastically change). By the end of the game you could walk between just about every area in the game (I've no idea if XIII allows this, I haven't got there yet), or fly there. It still felt like a complete game world and not just a bunch of interconnected linear "levels."
Loved the environmental design in XIII. It was a joy simply running through the game and admire the world. Combine that with great music and an excellent battle system and I was happy to sink all the end-game hours in necessary to get the platinum.
XIII-2 was even better. I felt like Noel and Serah made for a great casting pair, and the open third party member slot led to a fun monster hunting/training system. I really liked the enemy encounter system here where they'd pop up around you but you could avoid the fight if you wished. Some really amazing vocal music pieces throughout the game.
I haven't played Lightning Returns. Not having a party and having to contend with time management really turned me off. But... this thread is making me want to play it.
I never get this "mash A" criticism on 13, since almost all FF games you don't need to do anything other than attack, and then heal when you are low on hp, you rarely use debuffs or buffs, and I started lots of FF after playing 13 so I don't have the nostalgia glasses on it.
Problem like someone said, was include the auto attack mode that made critics focus just too much on that
XIII
- The music is fantastic
- The combat is fantastic, probably one of the few games I feel de(buffs) matter. Also a game where levels aren't everything, meaning you can take on strong enemies with good strategies
- Great sense of style in terms of characters and locations
- Speaking of locations, they're great for most part (but I wish it had more scenery)
- I like the mythology and world a lot (but I wish they had like a map to explain Cocoon)
- The story itself is quite good and I like how clever it approaches its themes and mythology (however, the pacing and storytelling itself can be quite off)
- Good characters and design, with Lightning and Fang being most notable
- Awesome final boss
XIII-2
- Still fantastic music, maybe even moreso
- Still fantastic combat, somewhat improved by party leader switching (though staggering and combat length changes has me neutral)
- One of the best random encounter ideas in JRPGs, the Mog Clock
- An engaging time travel story that had me hooked throughout
- A ballsy ending, possibly one of my favorites in video games
- Awesome villain and one of my favorite final boss battles ever
- And basically all I said about XIII
LR
- Music still fantastic
- Combat is completely revamped, still fantastic or maybe even better
- An intriguing story naturally following the odd events of XIII-2
- A living world, with a time-based system akin to Majora's Mask. That's ballsy in itself! Not many games have this
- Enemies can actually go extinct
- You're free to do whatever you want
- And so much more
To be honest, I enjoyed the games a lot. They all have their flaws (XIII mainly in presentation and pacing, XIII-2 in... actually maybe not, LR in decreased visuals and going a bit too insane with its story), but they don't overshadowed how much fun I had.
I never get this "mash A" criticism on 13, since almost all FF games you don't need to do anything other than attack, and then heal when you are low on hp, you rarely use debuffs or buffs, and I started lots of FF after playing 13 so I don't have the nostalgia glasses on it.
Problem like someone said, was include the auto attack mode that made critics focus just too much on that
I feel a little more accomplished when I respond to a given situation using one choice from a large amount of options. XIII essentially narrows all of your options down to six. Now instead of taking into account when my magic character will next be able to use a certain attack, and choosing the best attack from their arsenal (or defending them until they can), I just switch to "make magic person use healing or buffs Paragon" as soon as I possibly can. You have six options and switch between them given the situation. It just really simplifies things and makes it less exciting and intellectually stimulating. Sure I sometimes frantically use an item, but that is infrequent.
The polished graphics, the colorful art style (at least in XIII and XIII-2) and the music. That's about it already though. I'd totally buy a FFXIII PS4 remaster, just for the visual and acoustic splendor.
Yeah, I think the battle system is pretty good. It takes awhile to get challenging (but everything in XIII takes awhile), but once it does it's pretty neat
I also like lightning and how she's a female character that doesn't get all sexed up
They have my favorite soundtrack in a Final Fantasy in them. That's pretty much all I listen to when playing through XV. Also, I really enjoyed XIII-2's combat system, felt like they really took some of the criticism from the first game's system to heart.
From what I played (several hours of the first in the trilogy), the world, characters, and battle system are all among the best in the series. The only weak part that I noticed was how linear the environments were. Coming off of XII, it felt like a step backwards and not what a next gen FF should've been. But then again, FFX was super linear too and it doesn't get nearly as much apathy and/or hate as FFXIII for some reason.
I wonder how XIII would have been received if it followed X instead of XII because imo XIII is a better game and the complaints I see about XIII are still in X.
Pros of the differences between the two:
X Pros
- Revisit areas near endgame, although not sure why you would want to do that anyways because the actual maps are pretty linear and dull.
- Best traditional turn based combat in a JRPG
- Easier to follow story
- Blitzball
XIII Pros
- Better cast
- No awful dungeons
- Combat gets deeper as the game goes on
- Best visuals and music of the series to that point
- Has a truly open area in Pulse that IIRC X lacks.
But like I said, I played X after XIII so I didn't have that nostalgia.
FFX felt like a travel, yes, a travel with next to no event during the whole game. At least FFXIII had some change between the differents character relationship... Because looking yeah, FFX had Tidus and Yuna and... That's all.
I wanted more and if it's at the cost of being dropped at some zone after a cinematic, it won't annoy me a lot much than.. Say... Mario & Luigi 2.
I wonder how XIII would have been received if it followed X instead of XII because imo XIII is a better game and the complaints I see about XIII are still in X.
Pros of the differences between the two:
X Pros
- Revisit areas near endgame, although not sure why you would want to do that anyways because the actual maps are pretty linear and dull.
- Best traditional turn based combat in a JRPG
- Easier to follow story
- Blitzball
XIII Pros
- Better cast
- No awful dungeons
- Combat gets deeper as the game goes on
- Best visuals and music of the series to that point
- Has a truly open area in Pulse that IIRC X lacks.
But like I said, I played X after XIII so I didn't have that nostalgia.
The sphere grid was 100x better than the crystarium, it had towns, great world buiilding, npcs, side content, customisable equipment, it actually felt like an rpg and had a far better story, best ending in the series
For two very linear Final Fantasies they really felt nothing alike to me
For the frustrations of XIII, there is a lot to enjoy. I loved the soundtrack, and the gorgeous and varied locales. I did enjoy the combat, and it proved itself a lot more with the optional bosses. The cinematics (both cutscenes/FMVs) were well done. I liked the designs of the main playable cast (Fang is the GOAT), and enjoyed the (kinda) character development and party conflict. For me, XV has the stronger story that wasn't very well told. XIII has the much weaker story, but it was consistent through out.
I loathed the plots of XIII-2 and LR, but loved the soundtracks of both games. I would have preferred a third party member over monster collecting in XIII-2, but LR's combat system was absolutely fantastic. The final boss and the optional bosses were some of the hardest in the series, and let the combat system shine.
A lot of the complaints about XIII disappear, I feel, when you stop trying to compare it directly against other titles in the series. It's been pretty clear since as early as X in 2001 that Square doesn't want us to look at the series as having iterative evolution. I think that this has been made even more obvious since XV has released and has so few direct points to compare against other mainline entries. Square really sees Final Fantasy as a suite for attempting new ways to play narrative-driven RPGs which holds to a certain standard of audio-visual excellence, with each mainline entry only featuring recognizable series touchstones.
When taken on its own and with this in mind XIII excels in a lot of ways. The combat and gameplay cycle *are* great, especially in the end-game. It really rewards thoughtful combat preparation through paradigm and load-out customization. People have said a lot about the music, but it's also gorgeously rendered. The scene composition, character detail and direction are incredible; there is more character animation and cinematic blocking in an hour of XIII cutscenes than in almost the entirety of FFXV. It's still state of the art IMO, even if the plotting and world-building are handled poorly.
The distaste for the characters is a bit overblown and misplaced, I think -- they do have decent character arcs, development, and distinct personalities. It's average anime-grade fare, and that's enough, really. Final Fantasy has only really excelled at this when they were limited to the minimal modes of expression available to older games, and in full fairness this is an issue with Japanese RPG tropes as a whole.
The distaste for the characters is a bit overblown and misplaced, I think -- they do have decent character arcs, development, and distinct personalities. It's average anime-grade fare, and that's enough, really. Final Fantasy has only really excelled at this when they were limited to the minimal modes of expression available to older games, and in full fairness this is an issue with Japanese RPG tropes as a whole.
I disagree. Just replaying FFX puts it in start contrast. FFX has a lot of similarities in the character department but the way the characters actually interact is much better. FF13 seems like it's almost entirely made up of character speeches. Instead of actual human interactions each "conversation" just feels like each character speaking a manifesto over and over again until they finally trigger their Eidolon and now there character is changed so they switch to a new manifesto that goes and rinse and repeat until the end of the game.
The Lightning, Snow, and Serah triangle isn't dissimilar to the Lulu, Wakka, Chappu triangle from FFX but FF13 never gets a moment as simple or genuine as Lulu supporting Wakka after he overdoes it during the Blitzball Championship.
FF13 would be so much better if they just reigned in the drama a fair bit.
Only played XIII, have yet to beat it sometime, this topic kinda makes me want to get trough it again. Can't say I like the game a whole lot. But that bit about Mothers being tough and her dying the next shot.... That for me, is one of the best things in XIII.
Not much of anything really. The story was awful, the characters were uninteresting, the art direction was a headache, and the gameplay was so SO easy.
I found that Tidus alone is way better than the entire XIII cast. If we add the entire X cast, then it becomes overkill. I honestly did not care if the XIII cast failed or succeeded on their mission. They were not likable at all.
Well, I've only really played the first one, so...
1. The battle system
2. The music
Well I guess that's it, actually. Game is a 5/10 at best.
What's with the Lightning love? Does she actually become a character in the other two games, or something? I don't even remember her having a personality or an arc in the first one.
I found that Tidus alone is way better than the entire XIII cast. If we add the entire X cast, then it becomes overkill. I honestly did not care if the XIII cast failed or succeeded on their mission. They were not likable at all.
I like Tidus, Auron, and Wakka. Yuna is alright too. The rest I could do without.
Meanwhile in my eyes Fang and Sazh are two of the best characters in the series. Lightning and Snow are cool too, and at least towards the end Hope is alright. I will say though that I hate Vanille.
What's with the Lightning love? Does she actually become a character in the other two games, or something? I don't even remember her having a personality or an arc in the first one.
More of a parody of a character. She goes from uncaring soldier to a decently likeable hero at the end of the first game, then into a warrior goddess, then into the goddess of death, and finally into a fashion model.
She has this weird cult around her and I've long since gave up wondering how much of it is done for comedy.
A lot of the music was really good, I love Blinded by Light. It was a great battle theme.
The visuals were fantastic, just really great art design all around. Artistically, I think it still looks better than FFXV even.
The battle system was also incredibly fun once you unlocked everything, unfortunately it took like 20 hours until Chapter 11 before you had all the systems in play. Once you got to that point though the combat was a real treat.
Honestly, my memories of FFXIII aren't that terrible, I had fun with it, I just don't think I could ever play it again because it spends so long slowly doling out the systems.
I only played the first game but I really liked the battle system and how much freedom it gave the player, characters, visual design, music, and honestly I found the hyperlinearity of the thing refreshing in a generation where everything kept getting bigger and grander. It didn't do linearity as well as FFX (I played FFX after FF13 and it basically felt like an evolution of a lot of the things 13 did, even though it came first, which I guess sort of retroactively hurt my opinion of 13), but I did think it was sort of cool that it was as linear as it was honestly.
story, worldbuilding and fleshed out characters. presentation was also nice. I liked the original game the most for its story-telling and atmosphere. the others had better combat systems but the story became weaker with every entry. LR was an interesting game though, very different.
